First Resurrection Part 2
- Thread starter cronjecj
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
"so the sin his sacrifice atoned for need not be a finite entity... "
I'm not sure I know what your saying here.
That's not up to the Person Rachel, That is up to the Father.
A man can recieve nothing unless it were given to him from above.
God is the one who grants Repentance, The Mystery of iniquity doth already work.
I'm not sure I know what your saying here.
That's not up to the Person Rachel, That is up to the Father.
A man can recieve nothing unless it were given to him from above.
God is the one who grants Repentance, The Mystery of iniquity doth already work.
I
The resurrection is a continuing process illustrated by the daily sacrifices contained in the law. It is for THOSE REDEEMED to now trace their heritage back to it's origin. As stated in the law, the kinsman redeemer "paid" the price to return it to us. Jubilee, with it's penalties are when all are restored.
The second death is the death of death and hell and anyone not found in the book of life is cast in. What this means is that whoever I was in this world, with my imperfections is not found in the book of life and if I attempt to hold on to any part of it, I will lose it.
For those still given to the carnal mind, they will suffer loss, and be hurt, but saved nonetheless.
The second death is the death of death and hell and anyone not found in the book of life is cast in. What this means is that whoever I was in this world, with my imperfections is not found in the book of life and if I attempt to hold on to any part of it, I will lose it.
For those still given to the carnal mind, they will suffer loss, and be hurt, but saved nonetheless.
A
Truthfully I'm still studying it but as of now I believe that the first resurrection is when Jesus decides to redeem a person's body (not just born again in the Spirit) and change it from this corruptible body into an incorruptible one. I believe that He did this in the first century but He also does it whenever anyone dies who He judges as worthy to rule with Him now in Heaven. I can give you the verses that lead me to believe this. People often tell me this is a one time rapture event thing but it does not say it happens only once.
The second resurrection is on final Judgement day when Jesus raise both good and bad people and judges them according to their works and if their name is written in the book of Life or not.
I don't believe all Christians will be resurrected in the first resurrection. if they were all raised then what need would there be to be a judgment of the dead?
However I do believe all who truly seek Jesus and worship God in Spirit and truth will be allowed into the New Heaven and New Earth but that doesn't happen until the second resurrection after the white Throne Judgement has already occurred.
1 Corinthians 15:51-54
New King James Version (NKJV)
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”[a]
Luke 21
27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.”
29 Then He spoke to them a parable: “Look at the fig tree, and all the trees. 30 When they are already budding, you see and know for yourselves that summer is now near. 31 So you also, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near. 32 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place. 33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.
Acts 7:54-56
New King James Version (NKJV)
54 When they heard these things they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed at him with their teeth. 55 But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, 56 and said, “Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!”
I believe the above scriptures have been fulfilled.
The second resurrection is on final Judgement day when Jesus raise both good and bad people and judges them according to their works and if their name is written in the book of Life or not.
I don't believe all Christians will be resurrected in the first resurrection. if they were all raised then what need would there be to be a judgment of the dead?
However I do believe all who truly seek Jesus and worship God in Spirit and truth will be allowed into the New Heaven and New Earth but that doesn't happen until the second resurrection after the white Throne Judgement has already occurred.
1 Corinthians 15:51-54
New King James Version (NKJV)
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”[a]
Luke 21
27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.”
29 Then He spoke to them a parable: “Look at the fig tree, and all the trees. 30 When they are already budding, you see and know for yourselves that summer is now near. 31 So you also, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near. 32 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place. 33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.
Acts 7:54-56
New King James Version (NKJV)
54 When they heard these things they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed at him with their teeth. 55 But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, 56 and said, “Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!”
I believe the above scriptures have been fulfilled.
1Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
10All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
11And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
13And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.
14And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.
15And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.
16And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
20In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD's house shall be like the bowls before the altar.
21Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts(Zechariah 14:1-21).
If there is no physical reign of Jesus on earth than explain Zechariah 14.
1.God will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle,and then fight against those nations.
2.God will step down on the Mount of Olives and the mountain shall split for safe passage for the Jews,in which Jesus who stood on the Mount of Olives in the book of Acts,told His disciples that how they see Jesus leave from the Mount of Olives,He will come back that same way,which means to step back down on the Mount of Olives.
3.The LORD God will come back with His saints to fight the nations,which means the saints are resurrected,and then come back to earth with God who steps down on the Mount of Olives.
4.When God fights the nations and wins,the LORD shall be king over all the earth,and there shall be one LORD,and His name one,which means God will be king over all the earth,and the people will only recognize God and His name,which is Jesus,and no other god will be acknowledged.
5.When God fights the nations their plague will be that their flesh melts off their bones,which Jesus will destroy the man of sin with the brightness of His coming,indicating that Jesus will come back to earth to fight the nations,in which He will step down on the Mount of Olives.
6.Everyone that is left of all the nations that went against Jerusalem shall go up year after year to Jerusalem to worship the King,the LORD of hosts,and to keep the feast of tabernacles,and if they do not their plague is that they receive no rain,indicating it is reign of God on earth,in which Jesus is the one who fights the nations in the New Testament,in Revelation,and defeats the world.
If there is no physical reign of Jesus,who is God,on earth,then explain Zechariah 14.
A person cannot surely justify it to mean a spiritual reign but it is clear it is a physical reign with God Himself on earth with His saints ruling over the people left over that went against Jerusalem.
2For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
10All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
11And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
13And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.
14And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.
15And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.
16And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
20In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD's house shall be like the bowls before the altar.
21Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts(Zechariah 14:1-21).
If there is no physical reign of Jesus on earth than explain Zechariah 14.
1.God will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle,and then fight against those nations.
2.God will step down on the Mount of Olives and the mountain shall split for safe passage for the Jews,in which Jesus who stood on the Mount of Olives in the book of Acts,told His disciples that how they see Jesus leave from the Mount of Olives,He will come back that same way,which means to step back down on the Mount of Olives.
3.The LORD God will come back with His saints to fight the nations,which means the saints are resurrected,and then come back to earth with God who steps down on the Mount of Olives.
4.When God fights the nations and wins,the LORD shall be king over all the earth,and there shall be one LORD,and His name one,which means God will be king over all the earth,and the people will only recognize God and His name,which is Jesus,and no other god will be acknowledged.
5.When God fights the nations their plague will be that their flesh melts off their bones,which Jesus will destroy the man of sin with the brightness of His coming,indicating that Jesus will come back to earth to fight the nations,in which He will step down on the Mount of Olives.
6.Everyone that is left of all the nations that went against Jerusalem shall go up year after year to Jerusalem to worship the King,the LORD of hosts,and to keep the feast of tabernacles,and if they do not their plague is that they receive no rain,indicating it is reign of God on earth,in which Jesus is the one who fights the nations in the New Testament,in Revelation,and defeats the world.
If there is no physical reign of Jesus,who is God,on earth,then explain Zechariah 14.
A person cannot surely justify it to mean a spiritual reign but it is clear it is a physical reign with God Himself on earth with His saints ruling over the people left over that went against Jerusalem.
A
not sure why I even bother.....
2 Peter 2:3-5
New King James Version (NKJV)
3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does[a] not slumber.
4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly;
2 Peter 2:3-5
New King James Version (NKJV)
3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does[a] not slumber.
4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly;
ana, when Jesus said these things will be fulfilled before that specific generation passes away He meant "the kingdom of God"
...and when He said ''repent for the king of God is at hand" so He was indeed speaking of himself but now that He has send us His Spirit, behold the kingdom of God is here now IN US.
The world cannot see this but we do.
THIS is the first resurrection and we reign with Christ a thousand years [born again Christian] starting right now (from the first advent to the second)
The second resurrection will occur upon the 2nd coming of Jesus.
in Rev 20:6 it says "blessed and holy is them that has part in the first resurrection on such the second death has no power over" this is true if you consider what Jesus meant that one cannot ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF GOD unless he is born again.
ask yourself, how many FIRST resurrections are there?
cz Paul speaks about ANOTHER resurrection at the last trumpet thet in an twinkling of an eye we all shall be changed.
CONCLUSION:
First resurrection: spiritual
Second resurrection: bodily
...and when He said ''repent for the king of God is at hand" so He was indeed speaking of himself but now that He has send us His Spirit, behold the kingdom of God is here now IN US.
The world cannot see this but we do.
THIS is the first resurrection and we reign with Christ a thousand years [born again Christian] starting right now (from the first advent to the second)
The second resurrection will occur upon the 2nd coming of Jesus.
in Rev 20:6 it says "blessed and holy is them that has part in the first resurrection on such the second death has no power over" this is true if you consider what Jesus meant that one cannot ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF GOD unless he is born again.
ask yourself, how many FIRST resurrections are there?
cz Paul speaks about ANOTHER resurrection at the last trumpet thet in an twinkling of an eye we all shall be changed.
CONCLUSION:
First resurrection: spiritual
Second resurrection: bodily
hi mpaper345
... The 2nd coming of the Lord Zakariah 14:1-5 (KJV)
... The new heaven and earth established Zakariah 14:6-21 (KJV)
The saints in Zakariah is them that are resurrected bodily incorruptible (2nd resurrection)
Jesus will indeed rule over the earth but the new one not this one. Rev 21 for reference..
... The 2nd coming of the Lord Zakariah 14:1-5 (KJV)
... The new heaven and earth established Zakariah 14:6-21 (KJV)
The saints in Zakariah is them that are resurrected bodily incorruptible (2nd resurrection)
Jesus will indeed rule over the earth but the new one not this one. Rev 21 for reference..
Last edited:
A
Zechariah 14.. perhaps we should start another thread?
Dispensationalism and Zechariah 14 : ChristianCourier.com
Dispensationalism and Zechariah 14 : ChristianCourier.com
A
I'll look into it but I still want to know what happened to these people....
Matthew 27:50-54
New King James Version (NKJV)
50 And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit.
51 Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, 52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.
54 So when the centurion and those with him, who were guarding Jesus, saw the earthquake and the things that had happened, they feared greatly, saying, “Truly this was the Son of God!”
when does the resurrection occur?
Luke 20:36-38
New King James Version (NKJV)
36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. 37 But even Moses showed in the burning bush passage that the dead are raised, when he called the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’[a] 38 For He is not the God of the dead but of the living, for all live to Him.”
Matthew 27:50-54
New King James Version (NKJV)
50 And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit.
51 Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, 52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.
54 So when the centurion and those with him, who were guarding Jesus, saw the earthquake and the things that had happened, they feared greatly, saying, “Truly this was the Son of God!”
when does the resurrection occur?
Luke 20:36-38
New King James Version (NKJV)
36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. 37 But even Moses showed in the burning bush passage that the dead are raised, when he called the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’[a] 38 For He is not the God of the dead but of the living, for all live to Him.”
In Matthew 27:52 was a spiritual resurrection of the saints.
For this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead (spiritually), that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. 1Peter 4:6 (KJV)
If one is not born of the Spirit they are dead people walking around figuratively..
That's why Jesus said you have to be born again to enter the kingdom.
i was blind NOW i see.
See how all this fits together ana?
When one is born of the Spirit
YES
Last edited:
A
nope Matthew 27: 52 is not figurative. just before it talks about Jesus cruxification and that is not figurative and neither is the renting of the temple veil and the earthquake or the remark made by the guard.
no more then Lazarus being raised from the dead is figurative.
God took Enoch and Elijah up into Heaven, why wouldn't He take the awaken saints up as well? Abraham, Isaac and Jacob must have been resurrected too because they can't be dead for God is not God of the dead but the living. So they must be living.
Also Jesus spoke to Moses who died and was buried, when was Moses raised from the dead? when did Michael rebuke Satan over the body of Moses?
anyways I'll pm you Cronjecj, people are probably bored with our convo
I'm going to stick my neck out and say Matt 27:52-53 were not in the original scripture. Matt 27 is the only place that remarkable event is mentioned, and it contradicts many other places in the bible that say OT saints will be raised at the coming resurrection of the just, which is still future. And where did they go? All it says is they went into Jerusalem. Then what? They are never mentioned again. Don't you think they would have hung out with the disciples? Or Paul?
Yes, I believe that happened.
God translated (transported, just as He transported Phillip in Acts 8:39) Enoch to protect his life. Enoch eventually died, as all men do, as Heb 11:13 says. Elijah was carried by a whirlwind into the sky, and moved. God hid him to underscore the "transfer of power" from Elijah to Elisha. Elijah is dead, awaiting the first resurrection.
They WILL BE resurrected at the first resurrection, which will happen at the start of the millennial kingdom. Everyone who has ever died is still dead, except Jesus Christ:
John 3:13) And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Moses is still dead. The transfiguration was a vision, as indicated by Jesus in Matt 17:9.
...FWIW, I'm still reading..
Yes, I believe that happened.
God translated (transported, just as He transported Phillip in Acts 8:39) Enoch to protect his life. Enoch eventually died, as all men do, as Heb 11:13 says. Elijah was carried by a whirlwind into the sky, and moved. God hid him to underscore the "transfer of power" from Elijah to Elisha. Elijah is dead, awaiting the first resurrection.
They WILL BE resurrected at the first resurrection, which will happen at the start of the millennial kingdom. Everyone who has ever died is still dead, except Jesus Christ:
John 3:13) And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Moses is still dead. The transfiguration was a vision, as indicated by Jesus in Matt 17:9.
anyways I'll pm you Cronjecj, people are probably bored with our convo