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lydever91

Senior Member
Aug 5, 2011
397
3
0
#42
You have a sense of humour... that's good. Remember that it doesn't always come across text in the way it was intended.

The hate in the world is growing, as God said it would. However, your "hate" comment was in response to a post from a Christian who tried to tell you the truth. Calling disagreement and truth-telling "hate" is akin to the social justice warriors who label everyone who doesn't wholeheartedly embrace their narrow views as "haters". It's silly, incorrect, and does not help at all, other than perhaps to assuage the name-callers' pricked conscience.

If you think it is "hate" for me to tell you that chapter and verse numbers are conventions only and not actually inherent to Scripture, you have a wrong understanding of hate. "Wounds from a friend can be trusted, but an enemy multiplies kisses."
Go back and re-read the rude and hate-filled comments you call truth-revealing. BTW your view on how chapter numbers and verses is based merly upon ignorance, good day, Praise Jesus
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
4,870
394
83
#43
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lydever91

Senior Member
Aug 5, 2011
397
3
0
#45
Dec 4, 2017
906
13
0
#46
You already have all the answers. Heres a link to Job 13:27 from the Jewish Tanakh, you can argue with the Jews on how they got their approved chapter and verse numbers. https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16415

How sweet are Your words to my palate, more than honey to my mouth!
From Your precepts I shall gain understanding; therefore, I hate all ways of falsehood.
Your words are a lamp for my foot, and light for my path.


Guard your heart with a shield of Faith in the Spirit of Knowledge and Understanding

My son, keep the commands of your father, and do not forsake the instruction of your mother.
Bind them always upon your heart, tie them upon your neck.
When you walk, it shall lead you; when you lie down, it shall guard you, and when you awaken, it shall speak for you.
For a commandment is a candle, and the Torah is light, and disciplining rebukes are the way of life;

[FONT=&quot]


Yes, we have the prophetic Word made very certain. You will do well to pay attention to it as to a light shining in a dark, murky place, until the Day dawns and the Morning Star rises in your hearts. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]20 First of all, understand this: no prophecy of Scripture is to be interpreted by an individual on his own; [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]21 for never has a prophecy come as a result of human willing — on the contrary, people moved by the Ruach HaKodesh spoke a message from God.[/FONT]
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
23,391
1,335
113
#48
You already have all the answers. Heres a link to Job 13:27 from the Jewish Tanakh, you can argue with the Jews on how they got their approved chapter and verse numbers. https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16415
The link Dino provided told you how they got their approved chapter and verse numbers. Your link proves nothing but the fact that they use the chapter and verse divisions introduced.
 

lydever91

Senior Member
Aug 5, 2011
397
3
0
#49
Please provide some evidence to support your assertion. Here is my evidence: https://www.gotquestions.org/divided-Bible-chapters-verses.html
Oh you edited in a link. The answer you got from gotquestions.org is based on ignornce, this is more accurate how they came about:
Jewish and Christian Bibles are actually anthologies of shorter writings called “books.” Bound volumes gathering these books together as a unit, known as codices, began to appear in the second century C.E. Before then the books of the Bible existed as individual scrolls.
Early on, Jewish scribes felt a need to divide these books into smaller pieces. Some biblical manuscripts among the Dead Sea Scrolls (third century B.C.E. through first century C.E.) use a system of spaces and line breaks to subdivide individual books into smaller sections called parashot (Hebrew, singular parashah). Parashot form the basis for the annual cycle of Torah readings in the synagogue. A parallel and overlapping tradition divides books of the Hebrew Bible into sedarim (Hebrew, singular seder), units smaller than parashot. The Mishnah (compiled around 200 C.E. from earlier traditions) reflects smaller divisions called pasuqim (singular pasuq) or “verses.” These early attempts at subdividing the biblical books were refined over time, and the various copies of the Masoretic Text—the Hebrew Bible as standardized in the early Middle Agesshow broad agreement on where the divisions should be.
 
Last edited:
Dec 4, 2017
906
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#50
The link Dino provided told you how they got their approved chapter and verse numbers. Your link proves nothing but the fact that they use the chapter and verse divisions introduced.
helloe sis,
i know that not everyone is an exact replication of some autonomous assembly line of mechanical speech.

I have learned over the yrs that the Ruach has moved through many people having them speak through sages, beggars, and even strangers.

But if you ask an artist about the tabernacle, he will tell you that there is beauty in symmetry.
 

lydever91

Senior Member
Aug 5, 2011
397
3
0
#51
The link Dino provided told you how they got their approved chapter and verse numbers. Your link proves nothing but the fact that they use the chapter and verse divisions introduced.
Wrong, it didn't say how, it just said who and when. Stop the hate and pay attention. Praise Jesus
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
4,870
394
83
#52
You already have all the answers. Heres a link to Job 13:27 from the Jewish Tanakh, you can argue with the Jews on how they got their approved chapter and verse numbers. https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16415
All that shows is that site uses standard numbering, but not where the numbering originates. Please try again, with evidence of the source, not merely evidence of the use.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
4,870
394
83
#53
The link Dino provided told you how they got their approved chapter and verse numbers. Your link proves nothing but the fact that they use the chapter and verse divisions introduced.
Wrong, it didn't say how, it just said who and when. Stop the hate and pay attention. Praise Jesus
"Stop the hate"? Seriously? You're being ridiculous and oversensitive.
 

lydever91

Senior Member
Aug 5, 2011
397
3
0
#54
All that shows is that site uses standard numbering, but not where the numbering originates. Please try again, with evidence of the source, not merely evidence of the use.
And all your post shows is incorrectly who and when but not how. Check post #49 for a more accuate how. Read Acts and you will see that Peter quoted the second Psalm proving they were numbered.
Act 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

And that's how this all started, it was only in the Psalms until the feet of Job were noticed. Now if you want to chalk up Job 13:27, the print, Joshua 13:27 the last mention of the Sea in the O.T., and the satellite imagery of the Sea of most of Christ's ministry as a big coincidence then that's your choice, have a good day, Praise Jesus
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
23,391
1,335
113
#55
Wrong, it didn't say how, it just said who and when. Stop the hate and pay attention. Praise Jesus
When the books of the Bible were originally written, they did not contain chapter or verse references. The Bible was divided into chapters and verses to help us find Scriptures more quickly and easily. It is much easier to find "John chapter 3, verse 16" than it is to find "for God so loved the world..." In a few places, chapter breaks are poorly placed and as a result divide content that should flow together. Overall, though, the chapter and verse divisions are very helpful.

The chapter divisions commonly used today were developed by Stephen Langton, an Archbishop of Canterbury. Langton put the modern chapter divisions into place in around A.D. 1227. The Wycliffe English Bible of 1382 was the first Bible to use this chapter pattern. Since the Wycliffe Bible, nearly all Bible translations have followed Langton's chapter divisions.

The Hebrew Old Testament was divided into verses by a Jewish rabbi by the name of Nathan in A.D. 1448. Robert Estienne, who was also known as Stephanus, was the first to divide the New Testament into standard numbered verses, in 1555. Stephanus essentially used Nathan's verse divisions for the Old Testament. Since that time, beginning with the Geneva Bible, the chapter and verse divisions employed by Stephanus have been accepted into nearly all the Bible versions.​

^^ That is the how, who, and when, from Dino's link.
 

lydever91

Senior Member
Aug 5, 2011
397
3
0
#56
"Stop the hate"? Seriously? You're being ridiculous and oversensitive.
I was telling her for her own sake. Having that kind of sentiment is bad for ones health. Now your gonna throw rocks for me helping her out? Lol:p
 

lydever91

Senior Member
Aug 5, 2011
397
3
0
#57
When the books of the Bible were originally written, they did not contain chapter or verse references. The Bible was divided into chapters and verses to help us find Scriptures more quickly and easily. It is much easier to find "John chapter 3, verse 16" than it is to find "for God so loved the world..." In a few places, chapter breaks are poorly placed and as a result divide content that should flow together. Overall, though, the chapter and verse divisions are very helpful.

The chapter divisions commonly used today were developed by Stephen Langton, an Archbishop of Canterbury. Langton put the modern chapter divisions into place in around A.D. 1227. The Wycliffe English Bible of 1382 was the first Bible to use this chapter pattern. Since the Wycliffe Bible, nearly all Bible translations have followed Langton's chapter divisions.

The Hebrew Old Testament was divided into verses by a Jewish rabbi by the name of Nathan in A.D. 1448. Robert Estienne, who was also known as Stephanus, was the first to divide the New Testament into standard numbered verses, in 1555. Stephanus essentially used Nathan's verse divisions for the Old Testament. Since that time, beginning with the Geneva Bible, the chapter and verse divisions employed by Stephanus have been accepted into nearly all the Bible versions.​

^^ That is the how, who, and when, from Dino's link.
That's funny, I didn't see that on his link. You are not making sense. Praise Jesus
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
23,391
1,335
113
#58
And all your post shows is incorrectly who and when but not how. Check post #49 for a more accuate how. Read Acts and you will see that Peter quoted the second Psalm proving they were numbered.
Act 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

And that's how this all started, it was only in the Psalms until the feet of Job were noticed. Now if you want to chalk up Job 13:27, the print, Joshua 13:27 the last mention of the Sea in the O.T., and the satellite imagery of the Sea of most of Christ's ministry as a big coincidence then that's your choice, have a good day, Praise Jesus
That the Psalms may have been numbered does not prove the whole of the Tanakh was. Your premise is faulty, and so is your conclusion. It does not even prove the Psalms were numbered, or had numbered verses. Acts 13:35 says this: Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. The number is not given for that one, nor the verse. It is just called, "another Psalm."
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
4,870
394
83
#59
Oh you edited in a link. The answer you got from gotquestions.org is based on ignornce, this is more accurate how they came about:
Jewish and Christian Bibles are actually anthologies of shorter writings called “books.” Bound volumes gathering these books together as a unit, known as codices, began to appear in the second century C.E. Before then the books of the Bible existed as individual scrolls.
Early on, Jewish scribes felt a need to divide these books into smaller pieces. Some biblical manuscripts among the Dead Sea Scrolls (third century B.C.E. through first century C.E.) use a system of spaces and line breaks to subdivide individual books into smaller sections called parashot (Hebrew, singular parashah). Parashot form the basis for the annual cycle of Torah readings in the synagogue. A parallel and overlapping tradition divides books of the Hebrew Bible into sedarim (Hebrew, singular seder), units smaller than parashot. The Mishnah (compiled around 200 C.E. from earlier traditions) reflects smaller divisions called pasuqim (singular pasuq) or “verses.” These early attempts at subdividing the biblical books were refined over time, and the various copies of the Masoretic Text—the Hebrew Bible as standardized in the early Middle Agesshow broad agreement on where the divisions should be.
And all your post shows is incorrectly who and when but not how. Check post #49 for a more accuate how. Read Acts and you will see that Peter quoted the second Psalm proving they were numbered.
Act 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

And that's how this all started, it was only in the Psalms until the feet of Job were noticed. Now if you want to chalk up Job 13:27, the print, Joshua 13:27 the last mention of the Sea in the O.T., and the satellite imagery of the Sea of most of Christ's ministry as a big coincidence then that's your choice, have a good day, Praise Jesus
Here is the next paragraph of the source you used (without providing the source):

"In Christian circles, a number of different attempts were made over the centuries to subdivide the biblical books into smaller pieces for easier reference to specific passages, especially in the European schools of the late Middle Ages and early Renaissance. The system of chapters used today is usually credited to Stephen Langton, who served as Archbishop of Canterbury in the early 1200s, and their first use was in copies of the Latin Vulgate version. A 14th-century rabbi, Solomon ben Ishmael, seems to have adapted Langton’s chapter divisions for use in Hebrew Bibles, complementing the existing verse divisions in the Masoretic Text. New Testament verse divisions seem to have been introduced by Robert Estienne in the 1550s."


Chris Heard, "Why Are Bible Chapters and Verses Numbered?", n.p. [cited 3 Mar 2018]. Online: https://www.bibleodyssey.org:443/en/tools/bible-basics/why-are-bible-chapters-and-verses-numbered

Our references differ in some details, but not in terms of my point: that the numbering did not exist until well after 1000 AD. Implying that I am ignorant is quite unnecessary. Asserting that one source is incorrect merely on the basis of difference with another source is logically untenable.
 

lydever91

Senior Member
Aug 5, 2011
397
3
0
#60
That the Psalms may have been numbered does not prove the whole of the Tanakh was. Your premise is faulty, and so is your conclusion. It does not even prove the Psalms were numbered, or had numbered verses. Acts 13:35 says this: Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. The number is not given for that one, nor the verse. It is just called, "another Psalm."
And that's how this all started, it was only in the Psalms until the feet of Job were noticed. Now if you want to chalk up Job 13:27, the print, Joshua 13:27 the last mention of the Sea in the O.T., and the satellite imagery of the Sea of most of Christ's ministry as a big coincidence then that's your choice, have a good day, Praise Jesus