For Signs.....1st on the List

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dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
30,087
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#41
Some time ago I saw a book that explained according to the Author how the signs of the Zodiac represented Jesus, the Disciples and various Gospel details. This business seems to be a variation on the theme. I predict that after 23 September pundits will be combing the world news searching for an event that they can claim to be connected with this. In the UK we have a magazine that is issued every year called Old Moors Almanac that supposedly predicts major world events for the coming year based on Astrology. Sometimes the writers get a thing right but more often they don't.

The Zodiac is a corruption of the MAZZAROTH referenced in Job which is biblical....God has consistently used heavenly signs to announce particular events.....even the death of Christ on the cross resulted in three hours of utter darkness and earthquakes which were also recorded by no less that 4 secular sources....point being....we can look at the stars and see these events lining up in the heavens and Jesus himself said that his coming (Parousia) would be preceded by fearful sights, signs and events in the heavens (Luke 21)

No one is setting dates.....just that when combined with worldly events especially in the Middle East it seems that we are on the cusp of something major and of biblical significance......that is all I am saying....
 
May 13, 2017
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#42
And let me guess, the language it translates into is called what, Jibberish?

I don't have a problem with another person's interpretation of the scriptures since it is written in 2 Peter 1:20 that no prophesy of scriptures is of any private interpretation which is the reason I provided him the opportunity to sanctify his God by asking him about his interpretation since it is written in 1 Peter 3:15 "But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:"

In the Gospel, the LORD taught me that if his word does hold true about the earthly things, which we can examine and validate then there is no sense even listening to him about the heavenly things. Since the LORD is a God of truth, which considering the passage of John 4:24 might be interpreted as the Spirit of Truth, then it is little wonder why some are waiting upon the return of the Son of God when the Holy Ghost has never left.
You need to give your head a shake. And while you're at it, you could get a bible that does NOT say Marvel on the cover.
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
2,837
23
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#43
You need to give your head a shake. And while you're at it, you could get a bible that does NOT say Marvel on the cover.
Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, Jer 31:35
 
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tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
3,402
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#44
The Zodiac is a corruption of the MAZZAROTH referenced in Job which is biblical....God has consistently used heavenly signs to announce particular events.....even the death of Christ on the cross resulted in three hours of utter darkness and earthquakes which were also recorded by no less that 4 secular sources....point being....we can look at the stars and see these events lining up in the heavens and Jesus himself said that his coming (Parousia) would be preceded by fearful sights, signs and events in the heavens (Luke 21)


No one is setting dates.....just that when combined with worldly events especially in the Middle East it seems that we are on the cusp of something major and of biblical significance......that is all I am saying....
Most interpretation I have seen view the Woman as Israel from whom Jesus the Man child descended. Satan tried to kill him at Bethlehem before his ministry was fulfilled. After his Crucifixion he ascended into heaven. Joseph is a type of Jesus and his dream is seen in Revelation 12 as being used to convey the message of him as the Messiah ruling the nations.

I doubt what is happening on 23 September is some sort of sign because Gods signs are to be seen by everyone not just those who have the right software or happen to live in a relatively pollution free environment with no street lights blocking the view of the heavens.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#45
I always took this passage to be talking about the birth of Jesus and why the wise men journeyed from the East to Bethlehem.

. Revelation 12:1–2 (ESV) reads:


And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. She was pregnant and was crying out in birth pains and the agony of giving birth.
12 Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads. [SUP]4 [/SUP]His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born. [SUP]5 [/SUP]She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days.

The woman is Isreal

The dragon was satan, Who tried to kill the child by the hands of men, and eventually succeed on calvaries cross.

The child is Jesus, Who was born, and asended back to heaven, but will return one day and rule with a rod of Iron

The woman at some point will flee to the mountains, The dragan will attempt to kill her, but he will prevented, so he goes after her children.

Her children - The sons of God, the church



Anyway, that's how I see it.

to Decon, I see no significance with these things aligning in the night sky.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
30,087
956
113
#46
Most interpretation I have seen view the Woman as Israel from whom Jesus the Man child descended. Satan tried to kill him at Bethlehem before his ministry was fulfilled. After his Crucifixion he ascended into heaven. Joseph is a type of Jesus and his dream is seen in Revelation 12 as being used to convey the message of him as the Messiah ruling the nations.

I doubt what is happening on 23 September is some sort of sign because Gods signs are to be seen by everyone not just those who have the right software or happen to live in a relatively pollution free environment with no street lights blocking the view of the heavens.
The sign in heaven found in Revelation was given some 60 years after the ministry of Christ and his ascension in a book that deals primarily with the end of the age.....What practical purpose would it possibly have if applicable to the (Most interpretations) that we all have SEEN....?

and I will add......God has the unique ability to give one event with a dual application....such as the prophesy in Joel.....
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#47
The sign in heaven found in Revelation was given some 60 years after the ministry of Christ and his ascension in a book that deals primarily with the end of the age.....What practical purpose would it possibly have if applicable to the (Most interpretations) that we all have SEEN....?

and I will add......God has the unique ability to give one event with a dual application....such as the prophesy in Joel.....

It all goes with prophesy.

The past things let us know who is being spoken of It gives context.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
30,087
956
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#48

It all goes with prophesy.

The past things let us know who is being spoken of It gives context.
I agree that it paints a very god pic of what took place in the past, but I also believe that if this sign is actually aligning in the heavens that there is a significance that cannot be swept under the rug.....I looked into this and it seems the only two times in history that this has or will take place is/was.......

1. Roughly around the time of the Genesis 3:15 promise
2. On September the 23rd this year following the feasts of trumpets

If true....this cannot be coincidental....IMO

Some 6000 years apart....little over to be precise....
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#49
I agree that it paints a very god pic of what took place in the past, but I also believe that if this sign is actually aligning in the heavens that there is a significance that cannot be swept under the rug.....I looked into this and it seems the only two times in history that this has or will take place is/was.......

1. Roughly around the time of the Genesis 3:15 promise
2. On September the 23rd this year following the feasts of trumpets

If true....this cannot be coincidental....IMO

Some 6000 years apart....little over to be precise....
might be, If so, I did not know what it is,, I just would not personally try to tie it to Rev 12.

As you said, He did give these things for signs.. Just what are the signs?

 
Mar 14, 2011
52,557
1,019
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#50
as with all prophesy, Any future events we can just guess, We will not know as fact until they occur, No one pre jesus saw events unfold as they did, I am sure future events for us will be the same

Anyone who tells you they know. or trys to argue and says they know you do not.. Not worth it..
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
3,402
162
63
70
#51
The sign in heaven found in Revelation was given some 60 years after the ministry of Christ and his ascension in a book that deals primarily with the end of the age.....What practical purpose would it possibly have if applicable to the (Most interpretations) that we all have SEEN....?

and I will add......God has the unique ability to give one event with a dual application....such as the prophesy in Joel.....
Much of revelation contains references to OT passages and types. the plagues of Egypt, the Tabernacle and temple and others it has been estimated that there are about 500 allusions to the OT in Revelation, more than the whole of the rest of the NT put together. Events in Matthew 24 can be found in there as well. One could ask why they are there when they can be found in Matthew. People often find Revelation difficult to understand because they don't study the OT. There is far more there than just Daniel even though that book is important. That is why Christ explained the OT to the Disciples on the way to Emmaus because the whole Bible is about him. One could ask why this sign was put there for over 2000 years before our time because it couldnt be seen by anyone before now.
 
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dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
30,087
956
113
#52
Much of revelation contains references to OT passages and types. The plagues of Egypt, The Tabernacle and temple
and others it has been estimated that there are about 500 allusions to the OT in Revelation, more than the whole of the rest of the NT put together. Events in Matthew 24 can be found in there as well. One could ask why they are there when they can be found in Matthew. People often find Revelation difficult to understand because they dont study the OT. There is far more there than just Daniel even though that book is important. That is why Christ explained the OT to the Disciples on the way to Emmaus because the whole Bible is about him.
For sure the O.T. is full of prophetic application to the end of the age woven throughout the woes and burdens of Isaiah and Jeremiah.....regardless....if this happening and it is following the heels of the feat of trumpets there must be something significant about it....just saying.....
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
1,505
177
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#53
...Having said this.....On September the 23rd, only once in like an estimated 7000 years and after the Feast of the Trumpets which starts at sunset on the 21st and ends at sunset on the 23rd the stars, planets, sun and moon will align to mirror the sign found in Revelation 12......

What do you all think about this and do you believe this is significant.......
Newbie here...

I believe there's a very good chance that the celestial event that's going to happen on Sept 23 will be the fulfillment of the Rev 12:1-2 sign. IMO, there's just too many things happening all at once for it to be a coincidence.

1) Virgo will be clothed with the sun.
2) the moon will be at her feet.
3) there will be a crown of 12 stars over her head. (the nine stars of Leo and three wandering stars, Mercury, Mars, and Venus).
4) Jupiter will have exited Virgo's "womb" after having spent 9 months there, going through retrograde motion to accomplish it.
5) It happens on the feast of Trumpets.

While none of those things by themselves are unique, the fact that they are all happening at the same time is quite compelling.

For those who want to spiritualize the vision and say the woman is Israel, look at what John wrote:

Rev 12:
1) And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2)And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

While there is surely a spiritual meaning to the event, I believe it will be a literal celestial event.

What does it signify? I do not know.... We'll find out.

FWIW, I also believe that the "star" the Magi saw that caused them to travel to Jerusalem to see the Christ was a celestial event and not some brightly glowing phenomena God did especially for them. While we have lost much of the knowledge as to how, God's word IS written in the stars. Biblical astronomy is not astrology....

For the record, I'm pre-mill / pre-trib.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
30,087
956
113
#54
Newbie here...

I believe there's a very good chance that the celestial event that's going to happen on Sept 23 will be the fulfillment of the Rev 12:1-2 sign. IMO, there's just too many things happening all at once for it to be a coincidence.

1) Virgo will be clothed with the sun.
2) the moon will be at her feet.
3) there will be a crown of 12 stars over her head. (the nine stars of Leo and three wandering stars, Mercury, Mars, and Venus).
4) Jupiter will have exited Virgo's "womb" after having spent 9 months there, going through retrograde motion to accomplish it.
5) It happens on the feast of Trumpets.

While none of those things by themselves are unique, the fact that they are all happening at the same time is quite compelling.

For those who want to spiritualize the vision and say the woman is Israel, look at what John wrote:

Rev 12:
1) And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2)And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

While there is surely a spiritual meaning to the event, I believe it will be a literal celestial event.

What does it signify? I do not know.... We'll find out.

FWIW, I also believe that the "star" the Magi saw that caused them to travel to Jerusalem to see the Christ was a celestial event and not some brightly glowing phenomena God did especially for them. While we have lost much of the knowledge as to how, God's word IS written in the stars. Biblical astronomy is not astrology....

For the record, I'm pre-mill / pre-trib.
And it falls on the heels of the feast of the trumpets....another coincidence.....not likely....!

Amen to the bolded.......I agree
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
5,602
119
63
#56
Wow, so in Genesis 1:3 God said let there be God and he saw himself huh? Wow
God is not a man as us. No mirrors or smoke. God is light.God is Love.God is Spirit.


The natural light was not switched on until the fourth day. I think God knew in advance that many would make the sun as the center of the universe and not Christ not seen Himself ..

As far as did he who is of one mind and always does whatsoever His soul pleases he watches to see if his will is performed . When our faithful Creator pronounced the workof His faith by saying as a work let there be light there was.


Jer 1:12 Then said the LORD unto me, Thou hast well seen: for I will hasten my word to perform it.

So in Genesis 1:2 the Spirit of God is moving upon the face of the deep and darkness was upon the waters so what did God divide himself from? the Spirit of God?

There is no division in the God head, two of the attributes of God who is not a man as us... father and Son. Not two spirits two works of faith, but a mutual work of both attributes working in perfect harmony and submission to one another.

Christ informs us its all one in the same one Spirit in respect to one faith mutually in respect to either one.God who is not a man is one.

Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

So God set the sun and the moon in the open firmament of heaven in Genesis 1:6 where the birds fly. Wow.
Living birds? Not sure how high a bird could fly before they ran out of oxygen .But the light switch by which brought light as a reflection on the stars and moon did not occur until the fourth days in preparation for the sixth day. Having all things prepared (food, oxygen etc.)

If they didn't shine in the light of God then I guess they were yellow.
Some say the moon is made up of green cheese?

God designed the two lights as time keepers, one the source the yellow Sun and two the reflected glory, the moon and stars.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
5,602
119
63
#57
Newbie here...

I believe there's a very good chance that the celestial event that's going to happen on Sept 23 will be the fulfillment of the Rev 12:1-2 sign. IMO, there's just too many things happening all at once for it to be a coincidence.

1) Virgo will be clothed with the sun.
2) the moon will be at her feet.
3) there will be a crown of 12 stars over her head. (the nine stars of Leo and three wandering stars, Mercury, Mars, and Venus).
4) Jupiter will have exited Virgo's "womb" after having spent 9 months there, going through retrograde motion to accomplish it.
5) It happens on the feast of Trumpets.

While none of those things by themselves are unique, the fact that they are all happening at the same time is quite compelling.

For those who want to spiritualize the vision and say the woman is Israel, look at what John wrote:

Rev 12:
1) And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2)And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

While there is surely a spiritual meaning to the event, I believe it will be a literal celestial event.

What does it signify? I do not know.... We'll find out.

FWIW, I also believe that the "star" the Magi saw that caused them to travel to Jerusalem to see the Christ was a celestial event and not some brightly glowing phenomena God did especially for them. While we have lost much of the knowledge as to how, God's word IS written in the stars. Biblical astronomy is not astrology....

For the record, I'm pre-mill / pre-trib.
I would offer the idea of Biblical astronomy is not theology. But rather is philosophical after the opinions of men who connect dots as stars. It is simply another manner of counsel in respect to natural man… one of the multitudes that does make the word of God without effect as His counselors.

We walk by the same spirit of faith according as it is written. We do not walk by a faith in respect to men connecting dots creating a form from their own minds called astrology.

I have read the gospel in the stars it represents a false gospel in the end of the matter. We walk by the unseen.

The gospel is written in the Bible, not the stars… they are not a source of Biblical faith (Christ’s)

It is simply another deception of the father of lies in his attempt of making the word of God without effect.

Isa 47:13 Thou art wearied in the multitude of thy counsels. Let now the astrologers, the stargazers, the monthly prognosticators, stand up, and save thee from these things that shall come upon thee.


Today I folow the Amil positions. No literal thousand years .The word thousand throughout the scriptures used in parables like that of Revlation 20 represents a unknown as to whatever is in veiw time sentitive or not. God does no give us exact times as signs. If he did men would be quick to rush in and guess.
 
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shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
1,505
177
63
#58
I would offer the idea of Biblical astronomy is not theology. But rather is philosophical after the opinions of men who connect dots as stars. It is simply another manner of counsel in respect to natural man… one of the multitudes that does make the word of God without effect as His counselors.

We walk by the same spirit of faith according as it is written. We do not walk by a faith in respect to men connecting dots creating a form from their own minds called astrology.

I have read the gospel in the stars it represents a false gospel in the end of the matter. We walk by the unseen.

The gospel is written in the Bible, not the stars… they are not a source of Biblical faith (Christ’s)

It is simply another deception of the father of lies in his attempt of making the word of God without effect.

Isa 47:13 Thou art wearied in the multitude of thy counsels. Let now the astrologers, the stargazers, the monthly prognosticators, stand up, and save thee from these things that shall come upon thee.
Astrology is not astronomy. Astrology is the perversion of astronomy.

Ps 19:
1) The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
2) Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
3) There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
4) Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,

Today I folow the Amil positions.
You're not alone. Doesn't make you right.

No literal thousand years .The word thousand throughout the scriptures used in parables like that of Revlation 20 represents a unknown as to whatever is in veiw time sentitive or not. God does no give us exact times as signs. If he did men would be quick to rush in and guess.
I do not believe Rev 20 is a "parable".

But obviously, you're free to have your opinion.

Time will tell...
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
30,087
956
113
#59
Astrology is not astronomy. Astrology is the perversion of astronomy.

Ps 19:
1) The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
2) Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
3) There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
4) Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,


You're not alone. Doesn't make you right.


I do not believe Rev 20 is a "parable".

But obviously, you're free to have your opinion.

Time will tell...
AMEN and good response bro....
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
3,402
162
63
70
#60
If September 23 means anything at all according to the rest of Rev 12 Satan and his Angels are kicked out of Heaven and land on earth where Satan persecutes the Woman. Many interpreters believe the Woman is Israel. The Woman flees into the wilderness for three and a half years. Satan uses a flood to carry her away but the earth swallows it up he then goes to make war with the remnant of her seed that keep Gods commandments and have the testimony of Jesus. The flood could be an attempted invasion of Israel by a group of Countries that goes disastrously wrong for the invaders. The remnant could be either Messianic Jews living in other parts of the world, Gentile Christians or both. This is just an idea until something happens no one really knows. Having said all this I am still skeptical that anything will happen at all.