Free will in the light of Romans 11:25?

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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#1
How do those of you who hold to an unbendable 'free will' position, explain the fact that for the most part of their history, since Christ's death, "a partial hardening/blindness has come upon Israel"? How would you fit this into the 'freewill' scenario? Would you at least say this 'hardening/blindness' puts the Jews at a disadvantage, free will speaking, for the time being?

Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.(Rom 11:25) (ESV)

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
(Rom 11:25)(KJV)
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
15,315
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#2
Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.(Rom 11:25) (ESV)
A partial hardening does not mean a full hardening. Therefore many Jews are being saved as we speak. Today every Jew in the world has access to the complete Bible, and some even to complete Hebrew Bibles (if necessary). Therefore they all have access to the Gospel. And after reading or hearing the Gospel, they must make a decision to either believe on the Lord Jesus Christ or continue to reject Him.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
27,852
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#3
Just me I suspect, but I would read the verses above 25 to see what he was saying in context with 25, because therein I find the key to his message.

18) Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19) Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20) Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21) For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22) Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23) And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

They chose to deny Christ, and because of their unbelief, God blinded their sight to the truth of Christ. And, in this way, the door was opened for the Gentiles to enter in. And God did this to provoke the Jews to jealousy which would cause them to return to Him.....

10) Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11) I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

Verse 23 is the main Scripture that so very many people either do not see/understand, or refuse to acknowledge, for it clearly shows that the Jews MUST come to BELIEF in Christ to obtain Eternal Life. There is NO double standard with God. For, if there were, God would NOT be a Just God! Jesus is the ONLY way! Jews who do not confess the Name of Christ WILL NOT enter into eternal life............

Free will is not negated in this passage of Scriptures, for the Jews exercised their free will to deny Christ, and they paid the price for their unbelief. However, as with all others, IF THEY ABIDE NOT STILL IN UNBELIEF, meaning repent and confess the Name of Christ, they will once again be grafted in, and become the heirs of the Promise............ But they will no longer be of the Jewish Religion they practice now, they will become Disciples of Christ, and members of the the One Body, the Church.

(my thoughts only I suspect)
 

Nat2019

Active member
Jul 14, 2019
890
237
43
#4
How do those of you who hold to an unbendable 'free will' position, explain the fact that for the most part of their history, since Christ's death, "a partial hardening/blindness has come upon Israel"? How would you fit this into the 'freewill' scenario? Would you at least say this 'hardening/blindness' puts the Jews at a disadvantage, free will speaking, for the time being?

Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.(Rom 11:25) (ESV)

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
(Rom 11:25)(KJV)
Joshua 24:15
And if it is evil in your eyes to serve the Lord,

(choose this day whom you will serve),

whether the gods your fathers served in the region beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”

Deuteronomy 30:19
I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore (choose life), that you and your offspring may live,

Hebrews 11:24-25
24 By faith Moses, when he was grown up, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter, 25
(choosing rather to be mistreated with the people of God)

than to enjoy the fleeting pleasures of sin.
 

JohnRH

Junior Member
Mar 5, 2018
359
159
43
#5
How do those of you who hold to an unbendable 'free will' position, explain the fact that for the most part of their history, since Christ's death, "a partial hardening/blindness has come upon Israel"? How would you fit this into the 'freewill' scenario? Would you at least say this 'hardening/blindness' puts the Jews at a disadvantage, free will speaking, for the time being?

Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.(Rom 11:25) (ESV)

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
(Rom 11:25)(KJV)
Free will is what each individual has.
The hardening mentioned in this passage pertains to a people-group, not individuals in that group.
Read the rest of the story: For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
2,822
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#6
God would not intentionally harden the Jews for He would want them to be saved, but it means that for the most part the nation of Israel, the Jews, accept the Old Testament, and abide by that, which is the partial hardening that they do not accept the whole truth, and do no accept the New Testament.

And when the fulness of the Gentiles be come in, which is when salvation is no longer available to the Gentiles, then God will turn Israel as a nation to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah, and so all Israel shall be saved.

Which the Bible says that God will gather the whole house of Jacob, all 12 tribes, and put them back on their land, and leave none of them in the nations anymore, and they shall know the LORD their God from that time forward, and He shall never hide His face from them again.

The Bible says that Israel has 70 weeks to make an end of sins, bring in everlasting righteousness, and anoint the most holy who is Jesus, and 69 weeks has passed, and the last week is the time that God causes all people who do not love Him to follow the man of sin, New Age Christ, and brings Israel to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah.

The man of sin will establish peace in the Middle East, and it will pave the way for all Jews to go to Israel, for the Gentile nations will see to it, and the man of sin wants them all back on their land, but God means it for good towards the Jews.

The Jews will build their temple, and go back to animal sacrifices, for they are blinded in part, for they believe partial truth, with no hassle from the Palestinians, and the Jews will split Jerusalem with the Palestinians.

The nation's governments will come together and say Peace and safety as they try to establish peace in the Middle East, and the 7 years period will begin.

In the middle of the 7 years the New Age Christ steps in to their temple, and tells them to stop animal sacrifices, and claims to be their God and messiah, and addresses the world that he evolved through nature, and can cause all people who follow him to be able to evolve through nature to be greater.

When the people who do not love God follows the man of sin then repentance, and salvation, are no longer available to them, and the fulness of the Gentiles have come in.

Then God will turn Israel to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah, and so all Israel shall be saved.

Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

God did not cast away His people the Jews, and He did not cause them to be hardened in part, but it is the way it happened that the majority did not accept Jesus, but they went by the Old Testament, and there is always some Jews that accept the truth, as it is today.

It is speaking of Israel as a nation that is blinded in part, for the whole nation does not accept the truth, which many individual Jews accept the truth.

God could of touched Israel as a nation to believe the truth, and they would of believed, but He let them decide on their own the truth of Jesus Christ, and the majority did not believe.

The truth that the majority of Jews did not accept Jesus testifies that it is free will.

Jesus came unto His own, but His own did not receive Him, and the angel told Mary that Jesus shall save His people from their sins, and that He came to preach repentance, and salvation to the Jews.

So if it was Jesus' intention to save His people from their sins, but the majority did not accept Jesus, then it appears as if free will applies, for if it did not they would of all been saved which was the purpose, and desire of Jesus to save them all.

Also God said that He wants all people to repent, and come to the knowledge of the truth, and be saved, and commands all people everywhere, the whole world to repent, and He is no respecter of persons, but all who do righteousness in every nation is accepted with Him.

But we know not all people will accept the truth, but it is God's intention that everyone be saved, so it must be free will.

Some people do not understand what the Bible is saying concerning predestined to salvation, which means that God already had the plan to give salvation to the world before He laid down the foundation of the world, so it is the same as if the saints have that salvation in the beginning, for God calls things that have not happened yet, as though they already happened, like the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world, and this salvation is to whoever wants this salvation, for the Spirit and bride say Come, and anybody that wants that salvation can have it, and Jesus lights every person that is born in this world, which means that anybody can see the light of Jesus and be saved.

God chose us we did not choose Him, but we have a choice for that is true love.

No person says Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

No person comes to the Son unless the Father draws them.

Peter claimed Jesus as the Christ, the Son of the living God, which Jesus said flesh and blood did not reveal that to him, but the Father.

Many are called, but few are chosen, so God calls and chooses the person on earth.

When God calls a person He will work in their life to help them to find the truth, and when they get to the door of truth they have to decide to push it open for God's kingdom is true love, but they would of not gotten to the door of truth unless God intervened in their life to help them find the truth.

Many are called but few are chosen, because not all endure to get to the door of truth, and not many go through the door of truth.

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

But they are on the road, but few that go in at the strait gate.

We have free will, but no one can get to the truth, and want to accept the truth, unless God works in their life, but not all He calls will make it to accept the whole truth.

Which means if God calls many but few are chosen, then there is a lot of people with good intentions, but they do not believe enough to be saved.

2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
2Ti 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Many people that claim Christ have not walked through the door of truth yet, for they will not let go of the flesh.

And many people that were called did not even get that far to claim Christ as their Savior.

Many are called but few are chosen, for God does the calling and choosing on earth, for we have free will, but we would of not gotten to the truth unless God intervened in our life, but we have to make the choice to walk through the door of truth for God's kingdom is true love.

If people do not have a choice in their salvation, but God chose who would be saved, and not saved, without their choice, then they are robots that have no choice but to comply seeing no other alternative.

People should not go against the good nature of God, for that should testify that God gave us a choice, for His kingdom is true love, for He is love, and He is not evil to condemn people that have no choice but to reject truth, which God said He is no respecter of persons, and what makes you to differ from another, and there is no difference between the Jew and the Gentile, and all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, and if you offend in the least of the law then you offend in all.

So God views all people the same, and in the same boat, so why would He chose some, and not others, without their choice, when they are all the same.

If you program your computer to say I love you when you start it up, do you think your computer really loves you, and would you delight in that.

God is the greatest love of all, and do you think He would delight in people that say they love Him that have no choice but to say that seeing no other alternative.

But with free will God gets the glory for nobody can accept the truth unless God intervenes in their life, for He chose us we did not choose Him.

But this choosing is on earth, for many are called but few are chosen, so God does the calling and choosing on earth, and if God chooses who will be saved, and not saved, without their choice, then why is God calling people that cannot be chosen if it was already determined in the beginning, and they do not have a choice.
 
Feb 28, 2016
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#7
in the beginning, God created Adam and Eve -
He commanded them to be fruitful and multiply, and
He commanded them NOT to eat the fruit of the 'tree' -
they 'chose' to disobey...
oh my, what an infectious behavior it became for mankind...
 
Sep 6, 2014
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biblehub.com
#8
Romans 9:16-18 (BSB)
So then, it does not depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display My power in you, and that My name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”f 18Therefore God has mercy on whom He wants to have mercy, and He hardens whom He wants to harden.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
29,915
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#9
A partial hardening does not mean a full hardening. Therefore many Jews are being saved as we speak. Today every Jew in the world has access to the complete Bible, and some even to complete Hebrew Bibles (if necessary). Therefore they all have access to the Gospel. And after reading or hearing the Gospel, they must make a decision to either believe on the Lord Jesus Christ or continue to reject Him.
But does not this 'hardening or blindness' put them at a disadvantage until the fulness of the Gentiles come in?
If 'free will' was as exalted as some try to make it out to be, what business does God have to harden or blind their hearts? (I'm speaking like this only to make a point).
Throughout history since 100AD, the percentage of Jews coming to faith has been much lower then Gentiles.
Granted in the past 30 years that trend has been reversing indicating the end is near.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
29,915
3,335
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#10
Joshua 24:15
And if it is evil in your eyes to serve the Lord,

(choose this day whom you will serve),

whether the gods your fathers served in the region beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”

Deuteronomy 30:19
I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore (choose life), that you and your offspring may live,

Hebrews 11:24-25
24 By faith Moses, when he was grown up, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter, 25
(choosing rather to be mistreated with the people of God)

than to enjoy the fleeting pleasures of sin.
I believe Paul is referring to this dispensation since their rejection for the most part of their Messiah. Read carefully Rom 11.
There was liitle by God going on during the Mosaic covenant. Again...

Romans 11:25 NASBS
[25] For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery-so that you will not be wise in your own estimation-that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
15,315
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#11
But does not this 'hardening or blindness' put them at a disadvantage until the fulness of the Gentiles come in?
Not really. Every person can still be convicted and convinced by the Holy Spirit when they read or hear the Gospel. So please note what Paul says in 2 Corinthians:

2 CORINTHIANS 3
5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there isliberty.
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Please note carefully what Paul says in verse 16. Unbelieving Jews can still turn to the Lord and that "veil" (partial blindness) will be taken away.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
29,915
3,335
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#12
Free will is what each individual has.
The hardening mentioned in this passage pertains to a people-group, not individuals in that group.
Read the rest of the story: For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Yes, he will have mercy on all when He removes their stony heart. In the meantime, groups are made up of individuals.

Ezekiel 36:25-27 NASBS
[25] Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. [26] Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. [27] I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
29,915
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#13
Not really. Every person can still be convicted and convinced by the Holy Spirit when they read or hear the Gospel. So please note what Paul says in 2 Corinthians:

2 CORINTHIANS 3
5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there isliberty.
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Please note carefully what Paul says in verse 16. Unbelieving Jews can still turn to the Lord and that "veil" (partial blindness) will be taken away.
Yes, they 'can' but they haven't in the same proportion as the Gentiles and I believe the reason is...

Romans 11:25 NASBS
[25] For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery-so that you will not be wise in your own estimation-that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;

Otherwise, what is that hardening and how does it play out?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
15,315
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#14
Otherwise, what is that hardening and how does it play out?
First of all God does not deliberately prevent anyone from being saved, since that would be contrary to His nature and the Gospel. So the way it plays out is that only a small percentage of unbelieving Jews get saved before the Second Coming of Christ. But that is by their own choice. As you saw in that passage which was quoted, if a Jew would respond to the Gospel and turn to Christ, the veil would be removed.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
29,915
3,335
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#15
First of all God does not deliberately prevent anyone from being saved, since that would be contrary to His nature and the Gospel. So the way it plays out is that only a small percentage of unbelieving Jews get saved before the Second Coming of Christ. But that is by their own choice. As you saw in that passage which was quoted, if a Jew would respond to the Gospel and turn to Christ, the veil would be removed.
Again what is the hardening in Rom 11:25 and how come since Paul revealed that mystery, a much larger proportion of the Gentiles had come to faith than Israel?

Romans 10:16-21 NASBS
[16] However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, "Lord, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?" [17] So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. [18] But I say, surely they have never heard, have they? Indeed they have; "Their VOICE HAS GONE OUT INTO ALL THE EARTH, AND THEIR WORDS TO THE ENDS OF THE WORLD." [19] But I say, surely Israel did not know, did they? First Moses says, "I WILL make YOU JEALOUS BY THAT WHICH IS NOT A NATION, BY A NATION WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING WILL I ANGER YOU." [20] And Isaiah is very bold and says, "I WAS FOUND BY THOSE WHO DID NOT SEEK ME, I BECAME MANIFEST TO THOSE WHO DID NOT ASK FOR ME." [21] But as for Israel He says, "All THE DAY LONG I HAVE STRETCHED OUT MY HANDS TO A DISOBEDIENT AND OBSTINATE PEOPLE."

Romans 11:1-2,5,7-10 NASBS
[1] I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. [2] God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel? [5] In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God's gracious choice. [7] What then? What Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were hardened; [8] just as it is written, "God GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR, EYES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT, DOWN TO THIS VERY DAY." [9] And David says, "Let THEIR TABLE BECOME A SNARE AND A TRAP, AND A STUMBLING BLOCK AND A RETRIBUTION TO THEM. [10] "Let THEIR EYES BE DARKENED TO SEE NOT, AND BEND THEIR BACKS FOREVER."

Romans 11:25-26 NASBS
[25] For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery-so that you will not be wise in your own estimation-that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; [26] and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written, "The DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION, HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB."
 
Feb 28, 2016
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#16
ROMANS 8:29-30.
For whom
He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son,
that He might be the Firstborn among many brethren.
30.
Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called: and whom He called, them He also justified:
and whom He justified, them He also glorified.
=======================================================
personally, hub and I can't wrap our minds around anyone 'refusing' our Heavenly Father instructions
after He 'calls' them OUT', but apparently they CAN!!! - 'For many are called, but FEW are CHOSEN'.
there will always be mysteries that lay before us to be revealed........

may our hearts always be humble and obedient, ready to receive His Holy revelations/instructions...
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
29,915
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#17
Verse 23 is the main Scripture that so very many people either do not see/understand, or refuse to acknowledge, for it clearly shows that the Jews MUST come to BELIEF in Christ to obtain Eternal Life. There is NO double standard with God. For, if there were, God would NOT be a Just God! Jesus is the ONLY way! Jews who do not confess the Name of Christ WILL NOT enter into eternal life............

Free will is not negated in this passage of Scriptures, for the Jews exercised their free will to deny Christ, and they paid the price for their unbelief. However, as with all others, IF THEY ABIDE NOT STILL IN UNBELIEF, meaning repent and confess the Name of Christ, they will once again be grafted in, and become the heirs of the Promise............ But they will no longer be of the Jewish Religion they practice now, they will become Disciples of Christ, and members of the the One Body, the Church.
I suppose I could make a case where the Gentiles also blew it back in Noah's day, but were not treated with blindness and givena hardened heart. And we could agree with Paul, that God concluded both Jew and Gentile under sin that He may have mercy on both (Rom 3). It's just this present hardening that is well...a mystery, vs.25.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
29,915
3,335
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#18
God would not intentionally harden the Jews for He would want them to be saved, but it means that for the most part the nation of Israel, the Jews, accept the Old Testament, and abide by that, which is the partial hardening that they do not accept the whole truth, and do no accept the New Testament.
hmm,..

Romans 11:8-10,25 NASBS
[8] just as it is written, "God GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR, EYES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT, DOWN TO THIS VERY DAY." [9] And David says, "Let THEIR TABLE BECOME A SNARE AND A TRAP, AND A STUMBLING BLOCK AND A RETRIBUTION TO THEM. [10] "Let THEIR EYES BE DARKENED TO SEE NOT, AND BEND THEIR BACKS FOREVER." [25] For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery-so that you will not be wise in your own estimation-that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
27,852
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#19
How do you know what percent of Jews have come into the Faith vs. how many Gentiles? There were huge amounts of Jews converted and became believers in and disciples of Christ when He was here during His ministry. Scripture does not give us the exact number, but it was substantial in my opinion.

As well, it was prophesied that only a remnant would be saved, so your thought has merit. But, the exact percent is not knows. Especially as the percent of ACTUAL Christians in the world today is not that great is it? Not talking about those who profess..........but the ACTUAL number of Believers.

Also, Jews are still being converted to Christianity today in Israel. There are several Churches that have Missionaries working there. Even our small group has one Single person, and one Family we sponsor there.

I suspect that Jews around the world are being witnessed to and believing in Christ.

Now, TOTAL numbers surely would favor Gentiles, but the percentage may be closer than one thinks.

As for the hardening, God WILL turn people over to their own sinful life if they continue to deny Him and live against His Laws. The Jews, in this instance of disobedience and unbelief are receiving no greater punishment than those spoken of in the First Chapter of Romans in my opinion.

Also, the 11th Chapter of Romans must be read with all due consideration given to Chapters 8, 9, and 10.
Paul himself says it is "his earnest desire" that God find a way to save the Jews........that IS NOT a certainty though, and he shows this with the "disclaimer/qualifier" he puts in his writings that I highlighted for you.

None of what you are saying negates their free will...................they freely chose to deny Christ, and if God punishes them for their unbelief (just as He will ALL who deny Christ) that does not negate free will.

Folks can only deny Christ for so long before God gives them over to their unbelief.................Romans, Chapter 1 spells this out.
 

JohnRH

Junior Member
Mar 5, 2018
359
159
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#20
Yes, he will have mercy on all when He removes their stony heart. In the meantime, groups are made up of individuals.

Ezekiel 36:25-27 NASBS
[25] Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. [26] Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. [27] I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.
In the meantime each individual Israelite has an opportunity to receive this mercy - eternal salvation - during his lifetime. That individual doesn't have to try to stay alive hundreds/thousands of years, waiting for Israel to be gathered back into its land.