Free will is an unbiblical concept

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selfdissolving

Well-known member
Jun 29, 2018
536
436
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#1
If God is all powerful, all knowing and totally Sovereign, there is no such thing as free will.
The idea of free will implies that there is a force outside of God's control.
That would mean that God is not omnipotent or Sovereign.
Where in the bible does it teach that human beings have free will? Hmm?

Claiming that we have "free will" is tantamount to self-deification because it dethrones God as King and replaces it with self.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
18,046
4,455
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#2
Reading in the Epistles about that spirit of delusion to come upon th eearth in the latter days so that those who loved evil more than good says these flks are choosing what they want.

It is written to choose good over evil...........

About the spirit of delusion, it says those who loved evil, past tense therefore they only are the onew who will believe lies.. Do you experience people believing lies muich today? I do.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
#3
I think most people who deny free will want an excuse to go away from Yah...

Free will is Scriptural and real:

Hebrews 11:24-27, “By belief, Mosheh, having become great, refused to be called the son of the daughter of Pharaoh, choosing rather to be afflicted with the people of Yah than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a time, deeming the reproach of Messiah greater riches than the treasures in Mitsrayim, for he was looking to the reward. By belief, he left Mitsrayim, not fearing the wrath of the sovereign, for he was steadfast, as seeing Him who is invisible.”

John 7:17, “If anyone chooses to do His desire, he shall know concerning the teaching, whether it is from YHWH, or whether I speak from Myself.”

chooses” is word #G2309 θέλω thelo (the'-lō) v., ἐθέλω ethelo (e-the'-lō) , 1. to determine, i.e. choose or prefer., 2. (by implication) to wish, i.e. be inclined to., 3. (sometimes adverbially) gladly., 4. (impersonally for the future tense) to be about to., 5. (by Hebraism) to delight in., {literally or figuratively; as an active option from subjective impulse; whereas G1014 properly denotes rather a passive acquiescence in objective considerations}, [apparently strengthened from the alternate form of G138], KJV: desire, be disposed (forward), intend, list, love, mean, please, have rather, (be) will (have, -ling, - ling(-ly)) , Root(s): G138, Compare: G140, G1014

Joshua 24:15, “And if it seems evil in your eyes to serve יהוה, choose for yourselves this day whom you are going to serve, whether the mighty ones which your fathers served that were beyond the River, or the mighty ones of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But I and my house, we serve יהוה.”

Psalm 1:1-6, 1, "Blessed is the man who shall not walk in the counsel of the wrong, And shall not stand in the path of sinners, And shall not sit in the seat of scoffers, But his delight is in the Torah (Instruction) of יהוה, And he meditates in His Torah (Instruction) day and night. For he shall be as a tree Planted by the rivers of water, That yields its fruit in its season, And whose leaf does not wither, And whatever he does prospers. The wrong are not so, But are like the chaff which the wind blows away. Therefore the wrong shall not rise in the judgment, Nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. For יהוה knows the way of the righteous, But the way of the wrong comes to naught."

Isayah 44:22, "“I shall wipe out your transgressions like a cloud, and your sins like a mist. Return to Me, for I shall redeem you.”

Ezekiel 18:20-32, “The being who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the crookedness of the father, nor the father bear the crookedness of the son. The righteousness of the righteous is upon himself, and the wrongness of the wrong is upon himself. But the wrong, if he turns from all his sins which he has done, and he shall guard all My laws, and shall do right-ruling and righteousness, he shall certainly live, he shall not die. All the transgressions which he has done shall not be remembered against him – in his righteousness that he has done, he shall live. Have I any pleasure in the death of the wrong?” declares the Master יהוה. “Is it not that he should turn from his ways, and live? But when a righteous one turns away from his righteousness and does unrighteousness, according to all the abominations that the wrong one has done, shall he live? All his righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered. For his trespass which he has committed, and for his sin which he has committed, for them he shall die. And you said, ‘The way of יהוה is not right.’ Hear now, O house of Yisra’yl, is My way not right? Is it not your ways that are not right? When a righteous one turns away from his righteousness, and does unrighteousness, and he dies in it, it is because of his unrighteousness which he has done that he dies. And when the wrong turns away from the wrong which he has done, and he does right-ruling and righteousness, he keeps himself alive. Because he sees and turns away from all the transgressions which he has done, he shall certainly live, he shall not die. And the house of Yisra’yl have said, ‘The way of יהוה is not right.’ Are My ways not right, O house of Yisra’yl? Is it not your ways that are not right? Therefore I judge you, O house of Yisra’yl, every one according to his ways,” declares the Master יהוה. “Repent, and turn back from all your transgressions, and let not crookedness be a stumbling-block to you. Cast away from you all the transgressions, by which you have transgressed, and make for yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why should you die, O house of Yisra’yl? For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies,” declares the Master יהוה. “So turn back and live!”

Proverbs 1:24-33, “Because I called and you refused, I have stretched out my hand and no one inclined, And you spurned all my counsel, And would not yield to my reproof, Let me also laugh at your calamity, Mock when your dread comes, When your dread comes like a storm, And your calamity comes like a whirlwind, When distress and anguish come upon you. Let them then call on me, but I answer not; Let them seek me, but not find me. Because they hated knowledge And did not choose the fear of יהוה, They did not accept my counsel, They despised all my reproof, Therefore let them eat the fruit of their own way, And be filled with their own counsels. For the turning away of the simple kills them, And the complacency of fools destroys them. But whoever listens to me dwells safely, And is at ease from the dread of evil.”
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
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#4
Genesis 4:7, “If you do right, will it not be accepted? If you don’t do right, sin crouches at the door. Its desire is for you, but you are to rule over it.”

Deuteronomy 30:19-20, “I have called the heavens and the earth as witnesses today against you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. Therefore you shall choose life, so that you live, both you and your seed, to love יהוה your Strength, to obey His voice, and to cling to Him – for He is your life and the length of your days – to dwell in the land which יהוה swore to your fathers, to Aḇraham, to Yitsḥaq, and to Ya‛aqoḇ, to give them.”

Psalm 9:7-8, “But יהוה abides forever, He is preparing His throne for judgment. And He judges the world in righteousness, He judges the peoples in straightness.”

Mat 25:31-46, “And when the Son of Aḏam comes in His esteem, and all the set-apart messengers with Him, then He shall sit on the throne of His esteem. And all the nations shall be gathered before Him, and He shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates his sheep from the goats. And He shall set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the Sovereign shall say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the reign prepared for you from the foundation of the world for I was hungry and you gave Me food, I was thirsty and you gave Me drink, I was a stranger and you took Me in, was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you visited Me, I was in prison and you came to Me. Then the righteous shall answer Him, saying, ‘Master, when did we see You hungry and we fed You, or thirsty and gave You to drink? And when did we see You a stranger and took You in, or naked and clothed You? And when did we see You sick, or in prison, and we came to You? And the Sovereign shall answer and say to them, ‘Truly, I say to you, in so far as you did it to one of the least of these My brothers, you did it to Me. He shall then also say to those on the left hand, ‘Go away from Me, accursed ones, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his messengers for I was hungry and you gave Me no food, I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, was naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me. Then they also shall answer Him, saying, ‘Master, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not serve You? Then He shall answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, in so far as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.”

Malachi 3:14-18, “You have said, ‘It is worthless to serve Yah. And what did we gain when we guarded His Charge, and when we walked as mourners before יהוה of hosts? And now we are calling the proud blessed – not only are the doers of wrongness built up, but they also try Yah and escape. Then shall those who fear יהוה speak to one another, and יהוה listens and hears, and a book of remembrance be written before Him, of those who fear יהוה, and those who think upon His Name. And they shall be Mine,” said יהוה of hosts, “on the day that I prepare a treasured possession. And I shall spare them as a man spares his own son who serves him. Then you shall again see the difference between the righteous and the wrong, between one who serves Yah and one who does not serve Him.”
 

jameen

Senior Member
Feb 5, 2018
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Manila
#5
Free will is Biblical. You can voluntarily choose either evil or good.

Deuteronomy 30:19 New International Version (NIV)

This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live.

 

glf1

Active member
Jun 10, 2018
314
124
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#6
Jam 1:13-15 "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: but every man is tempted when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death."

1 Cor 10:13 "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that which ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."

The Lord does not tempt us to sin, ever! We sin when we are drawn away from the Lord and enticed by our own lusts and NOT BY HIS DIVINE WILL. His will is that we walk in obedience to the Spirit as he puts his commandments into our hearts and minds so that unlike those under the old covenant, we keep his covenant rather than break it like they did. So we sin because we choose to do it. In fact, the Lord even makes us a way out from sinning that we may be able to bear the temptation. Not something to do when setting up life to play itself out according to a preordained plan for each act that we are forced to perform so that God can be in control of everything. The Lord is able to be in control while wanting us to want him because we want to and not because we are forced to!
 
U

Ugly

Guest
#7
If God is all powerful, all knowing and totally Sovereign, there is no such thing as free will.
The idea of free will implies that there is a force outside of God's control.
That would mean that God is not omnipotent or Sovereign.
Where in the bible does it teach that human beings have free will? Hmm?

Claiming that we have "free will" is tantamount to self-deification because it dethrones God as King and replaces it with self.
So if there is no free will then it is gods will for rape, murder, incest, abuse, people going to hell and more. Because no one chose what they did, they were directed to do so.
This makes God to be a liar and therefore dethroning him.

Knowledge of the future does not mean controlling the future. If a weatherman predicts rain and it rains, did he make it rain?
I've always been a free will believer but now I'm questioning all of that. But arguments like this are so ridiculous and illogical its embarrassing.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#8
If God is all powerful, all knowing and totally Sovereign, there is no such thing as free will.
The idea of free will implies that there is a force outside of God's control.
That would mean that God is not omnipotent or Sovereign.
Where in the bible does it teach that human beings have free will? Hmm?

Claiming that we have "free will" is tantamount to self-deification because it dethrones God as King and replaces it with self.
You are right but also wrong. Free will is only in the context of human beings and not God; to us it may seem like a choice but to Him, there's nothing new ever. How many times will God remind us that we did not choose Him but He chose us even before the foundations of the world?

Jer 31: 3The LORD appeared to him from afar: “I have loved you with an everlasting love; therefore I have drawn you with loving devotion.

John 6:44
"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.

Psalm 25:6
Remember, O LORD, Your compassion and loving devotion, for they are from age to age.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
790
113
#9
If God is all powerful, all knowing and totally Sovereign, there is no such thing as free will.
The idea of free will implies that there is a force outside of God's control.
That would mean that God is not omnipotent or Sovereign.
Where in the bible does it teach that human beings have free will? Hmm?

Claiming that we have "free will" is tantamount to self-deification because it dethrones God as King and replaces it with self.
I think thats where probability comes into play.

Events are not necessary, but they are certain. Nobody is forced, but everybody is predestined based on influences and probability of his/her decisions.

Thats how choice making, responsibility and predestination can both work.

---

If you want an illustration what I am talking about, see how casinos make their profit or how subatomic particles work on quantum level - the probability function (wave).
 

Dan58

Senior Member
Nov 13, 2013
1,987
320
83
#11
If God is all powerful, all knowing and totally Sovereign, there is no such thing as free will.
The idea of free will implies that there is a force outside of God's control.
That would mean that God is not omnipotent or Sovereign.
Where in the bible does it teach that human beings have free will? Hmm?

Claiming that we have "free will" is tantamount to self-deification because it dethrones God as King and replaces it with self.
If every person is not given free will, then Christ died in vain.. John 3:16; "whosoever believeth" denotes free choice, and if we're given the mental faculty to make a choice, we have free will. Jesus said "nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done" (Luke 22:42). Free will does not negate God's sovereignty, because it is He who ordained that we make independent choices. If God denied free will, there would be no sin. Without the decision making process, it wouldn't be possible to demonstrate love or faith, and this life would be confined to a futile robotic existence.
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,266
286
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#12
If God is all powerful, all knowing and totally Sovereign, there is no such thing as free will.
The idea of free will implies that there is a force outside of God's control.
That would mean that God is not omnipotent or Sovereign.
Where in the bible does it teach that human beings have free will? Hmm?

Claiming that we have "free will" is tantamount to self-deification because it dethrones God as King and replaces it with self.
The fact of human free will is everywhere in the Scriptures, it's just you're willfully blind to it!

Matt 23v37-39: "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! See! Your house is left to you desolate; for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, 'Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!"
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
790
113
#13
If every person is not given free will, then Christ died in vain.. John 3:16; "whosoever believeth" denotes free choice, and if we're given the mental faculty to make a choice, we have free will. Jesus said "nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done" (Luke 22:42). Free will does not negate God's sovereignty, because it is He who ordained that we make independent choices. If God denied free will, there would be no sin. Without the decision making process, it wouldn't be possible to demonstrate love or faith, and this life would be confined to a futile robotic existence.
"Everybody who believes" says nothing about the process of believing, if its a gift or some kind of self-production.
Its just a statement that faith is the requirement.

"But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes. He asked, ‘How did you get in here without wedding clothes, friend?’ The man was speechless.
“Then the king told the attendants, ‘Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
“For many are invited, but few are chosen"

Mt 22
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
18,046
4,455
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#14
If you want logic, I know neither you nor I just came into existence from nothing, and all that is did not either.

Therefore this leads any with reason to understand that all that is has been made, created if you will, therefore there is a Creator, One Creator. I have met Him, though I have never seen Him. So have all who have been given to know Jesus Christ.

Can you imagine nothing at all? Even without the creation, had it never been created, there is the Origin, and He is the Father of all who know HIm....

All blessings in Jesus Christ, amen.
 

jaybird88

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2015
5,507
482
83
#15
If God is all powerful, all knowing and totally Sovereign, there is no such thing as free will.
The idea of free will implies that there is a force outside of God's control.
That would mean that God is not omnipotent or Sovereign.
Where in the bible does it teach that human beings have free will? Hmm?

Claiming that we have "free will" is tantamount to self-deification because it dethrones God as King and replaces it with self.
making a list of commandments would also be unbiblical being as we have no choice to obey or disobey.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,958
1,523
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#16
I think most people who deny free will want an excuse to go away from Yah...

Free will is Scriptural and real:

Hebrews 11:24-27, “By belief, Mosheh, having become great, refused to be called the son of the daughter of Pharaoh, choosing rather to be afflicted with the people of Yah than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a time, deeming the reproach of Messiah greater riches than the treasures in Mitsrayim, for he was looking to the reward. By belief, he left Mitsrayim, not fearing the wrath of the sovereign, for he was steadfast, as seeing Him who is invisible.”

John 7:17, “If anyone chooses to do His desire, he shall know concerning the teaching, whether it is from YHWH, or whether I speak from Myself.”

chooses” is word #G2309 θέλω thelo (the'-lō) v., ἐθέλω ethelo (e-the'-lō) , 1. to determine, i.e. choose or prefer., 2. (by implication) to wish, i.e. be inclined to., 3. (sometimes adverbially) gladly., 4. (impersonally for the future tense) to be about to., 5. (by Hebraism) to delight in., {literally or figuratively; as an active option from subjective impulse; whereas G1014 properly denotes rather a passive acquiescence in objective considerations}, [apparently strengthened from the alternate form of G138], KJV: desire, be disposed (forward), intend, list, love, mean, please, have rather, (be) will (have, -ling, - ling(-ly)) , Root(s): G138, Compare: G140, G1014

Joshua 24:15, “And if it seems evil in your eyes to serve יהוה, choose for yourselves this day whom you are going to serve, whether the mighty ones which your fathers served that were beyond the River, or the mighty ones of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But I and my house, we serve יהוה.”

Psalm 1:1-6, 1, "Blessed is the man who shall not walk in the counsel of the wrong, And shall not stand in the path of sinners, And shall not sit in the seat of scoffers, But his delight is in the Torah (Instruction) of יהוה, And he meditates in His Torah (Instruction) day and night. For he shall be as a tree Planted by the rivers of water, That yields its fruit in its season, And whose leaf does not wither, And whatever he does prospers. The wrong are not so, But are like the chaff which the wind blows away. Therefore the wrong shall not rise in the judgment, Nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. For יהוה knows the way of the righteous, But the way of the wrong comes to naught."

Isayah 44:22, "“I shall wipe out your transgressions like a cloud, and your sins like a mist. Return to Me, for I shall redeem you.”

Ezekiel 18:20-32, “The being who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the crookedness of the father, nor the father bear the crookedness of the son. The righteousness of the righteous is upon himself, and the wrongness of the wrong is upon himself. But the wrong, if he turns from all his sins which he has done, and he shall guard all My laws, and shall do right-ruling and righteousness, he shall certainly live, he shall not die. All the transgressions which he has done shall not be remembered against him – in his righteousness that he has done, he shall live. Have I any pleasure in the death of the wrong?” declares the Master יהוה. “Is it not that he should turn from his ways, and live? But when a righteous one turns away from his righteousness and does unrighteousness, according to all the abominations that the wrong one has done, shall he live? All his righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered. For his trespass which he has committed, and for his sin which he has committed, for them he shall die. And you said, ‘The way of יהוה is not right.’ Hear now, O house of Yisra’yl, is My way not right? Is it not your ways that are not right? When a righteous one turns away from his righteousness, and does unrighteousness, and he dies in it, it is because of his unrighteousness which he has done that he dies. And when the wrong turns away from the wrong which he has done, and he does right-ruling and righteousness, he keeps himself alive. Because he sees and turns away from all the transgressions which he has done, he shall certainly live, he shall not die. And the house of Yisra’yl have said, ‘The way of יהוה is not right.’ Are My ways not right, O house of Yisra’yl? Is it not your ways that are not right? Therefore I judge you, O house of Yisra’yl, every one according to his ways,” declares the Master יהוה. “Repent, and turn back from all your transgressions, and let not crookedness be a stumbling-block to you. Cast away from you all the transgressions, by which you have transgressed, and make for yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why should you die, O house of Yisra’yl? For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies,” declares the Master יהוה. “So turn back and live!”

Proverbs 1:24-33, “Because I called and you refused, I have stretched out my hand and no one inclined, And you spurned all my counsel, And would not yield to my reproof, Let me also laugh at your calamity, Mock when your dread comes, When your dread comes like a storm, And your calamity comes like a whirlwind, When distress and anguish come upon you. Let them then call on me, but I answer not; Let them seek me, but not find me. Because they hated knowledge And did not choose the fear of יהוה, They did not accept my counsel, They despised all my reproof, Therefore let them eat the fruit of their own way, And be filled with their own counsels. For the turning away of the simple kills them, And the complacency of fools destroys them. But whoever listens to me dwells safely, And is at ease from the dread of evil.”
Yes...Free will is Scriptural and real: This is when defined according to the scriptures.

Scriptures defines free will as doing the will of the father, as the kind of daily bread or meat of the word that the disciples at first knew not of.

Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat? Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.John 4:33-35

Mankind gave up doing the will of God not seen in the garden rather that walking by faith the unseen they did the good pleasure of the will of another causing mankind into bondage to the will of Satan who put his lies lips on a creature as that seen .

Men fell from faith as in having none .Not a little but nothing. left with the imaginations of their own corrupted hearts to do whatsoever they pleased.

He chose us from the foundation of the world. We before we were given or new born again faith could not do chose him who has no form.

If he has begun the good work of faith in us as a labor of His we have confidence he will finish it to the very end.

Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
2,636
547
113
#17
If God is all powerful, all knowing and totally Sovereign, there is no such thing as free will.
The idea of free will implies that there is a force outside of God's control.
That would mean that God is not omnipotent or Sovereign.
Where in the bible does it teach that human beings have free will? Hmm?

Claiming that we have "free will" is tantamount to self-deification because it dethrones God as King and replaces it with self.
If we do not have free will and God chooses who will be saved and not saved without our choice then consider this.

That would mean God's kingdom is not true love, for they have no choice but to accept the truth seeing no other alternative.

That would mean that God would condemn people that have no choice but to reject the truth seeing no other alternative, and God is not evil.

Not having free will goes against God's nature that He is love, and not evil.

That means their faith is not real, their confession of Christ is not real, their repenting of their sins is not real, their belief in God is not real, their hope is not real, and their accepting of the truth is not real, for it did not come from them but God.

If we do not have free will then we are a robot programmed to either accept, or reject truth, and how is that true love, and that would not come from a God that is the greatest love of all, and would mean people have more love towards each other than God and His saints, for people choose to love each other.

God giving us free will does not mean He is not sovereign and not all powerful, it only means His kingdom is based on true love, and He will punish the evil doers that reject truth showing He is the one in charge, and rules.

1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Act 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Joh 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

God says He wants all people to be saved, and the Spirit and bride say anybody can have that salvation, and Jesus lights every person that is born in this world, which means everybody has the chance at salvation.

Jesus is the Lamb that takes away the sins of the world, so then all people can accept the truth if they want.

We did not choose God, but He chose us.

No person comes to the Son unless the Father draws them.

No person can say Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Peter confessed Jesus as the Christ, the Son of the living God, which flesh and blood did not reveal that to him but the Father.

Many are called but few are chosen.

We have the choice to accept the truth, but no person accepts the truth unless God intervenes in their life to get them to the truth when He called them, but some do not walk through the door of truth when God works in their life to get them to the truth.

And the truth is accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior, and to be led of the Spirit hating sins, and abstaining from sins, for the Lord knows them that are His having this seal, for this is what seals them, and the way they are led of the Spirit, that everyone that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity, which Jesus said not everyone that calls Him Lord will be saved, for they were workers of iniquity.

Which some people when they repented of their sins still held unto sins and thought they were alright with God, which the Bible says they have a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof, ever learning but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

And some people accepted the truth, but went back to the sinful lifestyle and held unto sins after they were cleansed, and were compared to a sow that was cleaned going back to her wallowing in the mud, and a dog returning to his own vomit, in which it would of been better for them to not have known the truth than to know it and reject it which is to abstain from sins.

Which the Bible says if they do not continue in the goodness of God they will be cut off, and there is no excuse for a Spirit led life will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, for they have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts, and show the ways of the Spirit, and God will not allow them to be tempted above what they are able, and give them an escape from the temptation so they can bear it.

We do have a choice to accept or reject the truth for God's kingdom is true love, and many are called but few are chosen, so God does the calling and choosing on earth, for if God chooses who will be saved without their choice then why is God calling people who cannot be chosen, and He would only work in the lives of those He chose, so why is He working in the lives of people He called but did not get chosen.
 
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#19
If God is all powerful, all knowing and totally Sovereign, there is no such thing as free will.
The idea of free will implies that there is a force outside of God's control.
That would mean that God is not omnipotent or Sovereign.
Where in the bible does it teach that human beings have free will? Hmm?

Claiming that we have "free will" is tantamount to self-deification because it dethrones God as King and replaces it with self.
Free will is given to all creatures endowed with reasoning and reflection on God. Because of your "Born Again" false doctrine you seem to think that God removes all personal choice. You can not even see how stupid this claim is. If personal choice is not part of the human makeup, then what is the discussion. You actually should just shut your mouth then and not even attempt to speak. Who are you attempting to convince? From this stupid view point it is even futile for the Christian to even bother converting people to the truth of Christ. This is according to your own stupidity. This doctrine of yours most closely resembles "Do as thou wilt" Alester Crowley.

Think about it? If free will is not given to anyone and is not biblical , then let be what WILL be and do not speak. For nothing is according to anyone's personal choice in will and even all that which the Word speaks is in vain too in that case and is just His speaking to hear Himself speak, not for anyone else to hear and apply. There would be no such thing as sin either, nor is the one who watches porn -doing it of His free will but because he is a robot directed by God to do so. Not even Eve had a choice , even though God told both Adam and not to do something. Wow, the depth in which one falls when one First clings to false doctrine.

I call you of the 'Born Again " movement because in the thread "Can someone help me understand this verse " there, they have responded with the same cult ideology , OF NO FREE WILL. So then what is the bible even for ??????? ,since there is no free will according to you?
 
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#20
You are self dissolving alright . This do to free will - which you exercise to reject God and His Word .You will dissolve into an eternal fire which there you burn forever.