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1 John 5:1 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God,
and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of
Him."
You can't love anybody forcefully, because then by logic, love wouldn't exist, you choose to love somebody. So it's a choice. God does not force you. God chose us and granted Grace to us, but we have the choice of following Him or not.
and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of
Him."
You can't love anybody forcefully, because then by logic, love wouldn't exist, you choose to love somebody. So it's a choice. God does not force you. God chose us and granted Grace to us, but we have the choice of following Him or not.
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I disagree in a sense, I can't choose what I love, if I could then I prolly would not love buffalo wings. I would rather love something cheaper that wasn't messy and didn't cause my nose to run. But I can't help it, I love them!
MMMMMMMM hot wings!
Another example, divorce, if you could choose to love someone then less people would get divorced. You always hear about people falling out of love. Did they choose to do that? Would that be logical, I mean it causes alot of problems.
Therefore I conclude that love comes not from a choice made in your mind but from the heart, like it should be. Love for God comes from a new heart that God gives those He saves, this heart loves what is good, the creature is given a new nature.
Also, one more point, do people get to choose who their parents are? Even adopted children who are not infants will go with pretty much whoever wants them, it's better than the alternative.
MMMMMMMM hot wings!Another example, divorce, if you could choose to love someone then less people would get divorced. You always hear about people falling out of love. Did they choose to do that? Would that be logical, I mean it causes alot of problems.
Therefore I conclude that love comes not from a choice made in your mind but from the heart, like it should be. Love for God comes from a new heart that God gives those He saves, this heart loves what is good, the creature is given a new nature.
Also, one more point, do people get to choose who their parents are? Even adopted children who are not infants will go with pretty much whoever wants them, it's better than the alternative.
F
I disagree in a sense, I can't choose what I love, if I could then I prolly would not love buffalo wings. I would rather love something cheaper that wasn't messy and didn't cause my nose to run. But I can't help it, I love them! MMMMMMMM hot wings!
Another example, divorce, if you could choose to love someone then less people would get divorced. You always hear about people falling out of love. Did they choose to do that? Would that be logical, I mean it causes alot of problems.
Therefore I conclude that love comes not from a choice made in your mind but from the heart, like it should be. Love for God comes from a new heart that God gives those He saves, this heart loves what is good, the creature is given a new nature.
Also, one more point, do people get to choose who their parents are? Even adopted children who are not infants will go with pretty much whoever wants them, it's better than the alternative.
MMMMMMMM hot wings!Another example, divorce, if you could choose to love someone then less people would get divorced. You always hear about people falling out of love. Did they choose to do that? Would that be logical, I mean it causes alot of problems.
Therefore I conclude that love comes not from a choice made in your mind but from the heart, like it should be. Love for God comes from a new heart that God gives those He saves, this heart loves what is good, the creature is given a new nature.
Also, one more point, do people get to choose who their parents are? Even adopted children who are not infants will go with pretty much whoever wants them, it's better than the alternative.
The subject here is not about choice on all things... and to marry somebody, I'm sorry but the choice is made from both, your mind and your heart, you can't marry somebody without at least a little wisdom.... or I guess God gave us our mind just to mess around with us?
You can't choose some things... obviously like your family and parents, etc. But something you do choose, with mind and heart is to follow Christ or not.
Divorce usually happens, among other things, because you are not loving with love of God, but with your own carnal love, which can be corruptible.
1 Kings 3:9 (New International Version)Re: Free Will vs. Predestination
The poll results here surprise, or rather SHOCKS me.
God gave us all the gift of CHOICE...the same as free will. To say that we're predestined is to skirt responsability for the decisions we make in our lives.
1 Kings 3:9 (New International Version)
9 So give your servant a discerning heart to govern your people and to distinguish between right and wrong. For who is able to govern this great people of yours?"
John 3:36 (New International Version)
36Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."
James 1:5 (New International Version)
5If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him.
We can say predestination only based on the the WILLFUL choices we make in this life.
The poll results here surprise, or rather SHOCKS me.
God gave us all the gift of CHOICE...the same as free will. To say that we're predestined is to skirt responsability for the decisions we make in our lives.
1 Kings 3:9 (New International Version)
9 So give your servant a discerning heart to govern your people and to distinguish between right and wrong. For who is able to govern this great people of yours?"
John 3:36 (New International Version)
36Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."
James 1:5 (New International Version)
5If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him.
We can say predestination only based on the the WILLFUL choices we make in this life.
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Lol I'm just reading of those against Calvinism.
Calvinist don't believe that you don't have free will, they believe because you are spiritually dead God softens your heart so that you are able to exercise Faith in Him, which brings us to irresistible grace, once you have been truly touched by it well, as I say its irresistable.
Reformed theology is not just the acronym T.U.L.I.P that was only part of the argument against the remonstrants, Reformed theology is Covenant theology. the first covenant named is with Moses, the next we see in detail is with Abraham which is the covenant that concerns us (See Galatians), anyhow maybe getting away of subject here lol.
it all boils down to soteriology, and how you view this from Scripture. I believe that if God had not chosen me or pursued me, I would not have chosen Him.
Think about, when you pray for someone what do you pray for.. it'll go something like..
God, please open the heart of ....., please open their eyes from blindness so they can see!
now, if it was a free will choice why would we even pray that?
Anyhow, wether your a calvisnt or Armenian we are all in the body of Christ. I'll probably get slated from fellow calvinists for that but thats the way it is lol.
just as a side note, if your not a calvinist, and you are Evangelical (protestant) what you are taught has its beginnings in Armenian Theology, wether you agree or disagree thats where it originated, if you are evangelical that is.
Ps. excuse all my grammer and spelling mistakes
Kind Regards
phil
Calvinist don't believe that you don't have free will, they believe because you are spiritually dead God softens your heart so that you are able to exercise Faith in Him, which brings us to irresistible grace, once you have been truly touched by it well, as I say its irresistable.
Reformed theology is not just the acronym T.U.L.I.P that was only part of the argument against the remonstrants, Reformed theology is Covenant theology. the first covenant named is with Moses, the next we see in detail is with Abraham which is the covenant that concerns us (See Galatians), anyhow maybe getting away of subject here lol.
it all boils down to soteriology, and how you view this from Scripture. I believe that if God had not chosen me or pursued me, I would not have chosen Him.
Think about, when you pray for someone what do you pray for.. it'll go something like..
God, please open the heart of ....., please open their eyes from blindness so they can see!
now, if it was a free will choice why would we even pray that?
Anyhow, wether your a calvisnt or Armenian we are all in the body of Christ. I'll probably get slated from fellow calvinists for that but thats the way it is lol.
just as a side note, if your not a calvinist, and you are Evangelical (protestant) what you are taught has its beginnings in Armenian Theology, wether you agree or disagree thats where it originated, if you are evangelical that is.
Ps. excuse all my grammer and spelling mistakes
Kind Regards
phil
G
This is a topic that our feeble, little minds have a hard time contemplating. I believe we have choices; we love or hate, we tear down or lift up, we choose to follow Jesus because we love Him, or we choose to follow the world because we love ourselves. Choices mean we are free, but God also knows what we will choose before we choose it; this makes Him omnipotent, and it makes us free, and never the tween shall meet. I need a Tylenol.....
Hi Glenwood,
That is a classic Armenian view, God looks down the tunnel of time and sees who will choose Him. however, because of the Armenian view of freewill, what happens to God's glorious purposes if that man says NO?
I believe we can make real choices in the world of course we can, any would be stupid to say otherwise, what the real discussion is about, is Spiritual choices, can a man who is:
A slave to sin
A hater of God
dead in their sins
lloves the darkness rather that light ... so on and so on.
can this person truly turn of his own free will and choose God? The bible says not, and it is not just Paul, Jesus also reminds us of this reality.
As I reminder you dont choose Jesus because you love Him,,, thats not what Jesus says, Jesus says you love the darkness more.
Kind regards
Phil
G
Hi Phil,
I truly do understand that God chose us even before we were born, and that without the Holy Spirit to lead us into our blessed salvation then we are completely lost. I understand we are saved by grace, through faith, and that which is not our own; it is a gift of God, so no man can boast. This tunnel of time, as you put it, that we exist in, is where we have free will; in that finite time line we are presented choices, and as a Christian I believe that our paths are set and determined by the Most High, but as a finite being, I do not know which choices I will be presented with or which choice I will make. I try to involve God in every decision I make, so that He will guide my path by guiding my decisions and lead me into His will, not mine. This is what I meant by what I said. I believe it is a perfect plan by a perfectly loving God, but my tiny little intellect has a hard time understanding it; I guess that is where trust comes in.
I truly do understand that God chose us even before we were born, and that without the Holy Spirit to lead us into our blessed salvation then we are completely lost. I understand we are saved by grace, through faith, and that which is not our own; it is a gift of God, so no man can boast. This tunnel of time, as you put it, that we exist in, is where we have free will; in that finite time line we are presented choices, and as a Christian I believe that our paths are set and determined by the Most High, but as a finite being, I do not know which choices I will be presented with or which choice I will make. I try to involve God in every decision I make, so that He will guide my path by guiding my decisions and lead me into His will, not mine. This is what I meant by what I said. I believe it is a perfect plan by a perfectly loving God, but my tiny little intellect has a hard time understanding it; I guess that is where trust comes in.
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