Freedom/Love

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Sipsey

Well-known member
#1
Sep 27, 2018
1,357
652
113
#1
Real love cannot be compelled, it requires the freedom of the will. That is why God places such high value upon His creations freedom to make choices. Scripture may at times seem to show a God that forces acceptance of His divine authority and love, but in the end our freedom allows us to choose to acknowledge and accept, or reject Him.

His knowledge of our choices is the basis of our predestination, but not the cause. We are all wonderfully made, but we are given this freedom to reject God, or else it is all a farce, and we are but mere puppets. To me this would demonstrate a God that is less than perfect.

This freedom seems evident from the creation of the Angels and their ability to rebel and unto mankind in the garden, with our ability to succeed or fail.

This freedom is a double edged sword. It is a limited freedom, but it is real and demonstrated in the successes and failures of all of God’s creation.

So I guess my question is, “Could God create a being, with real freedom, that would only choose good?” (Good being defined as aligned with God’s will)
 
K

KnowMe

Guest
#2
#2
That depends on rather a person believes this verse below has any weight.

Matt19:26
But Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
 
exegete

exegete

Active member
#3
Dec 23, 2018
261
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My Tiny Apartment
#3
"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone. Mark 10:18
 
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KnowMe

Guest
#4
#4
exegete said:
"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone. Mark 10:18
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Hmm interesting you posted that verse to a question of could.
 
S

Sipsey

Well-known member
#5
Sep 27, 2018
1,357
652
113
#5
KnowMe said:
That depends on rather a person believes this verse below has any weight.

Matt19:26
But Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
Click to expand...
I will stop short of calling this a “lazy” answer, but are you insinuating that God can even lie?
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

Well-known member
#7
Jan 10, 2019
2,107
763
113
#7
Sipsey said:
Real love cannot be compelled, it requires the freedom of the will. That is why God places such high value upon His creations freedom to make choices. Scripture may at times seem to show a God that forces acceptance of His divine authority and love, but in the end our freedom allows us to choose to acknowledge and accept, or reject Him.

His knowledge of our choices is the basis of our predestination, but not the cause. We are all wonderfully made, but we are given this freedom to reject God, or else it is all a farce, and we are but mere puppets. To me this would demonstrate a God that is less than perfect.

This freedom seems evident from the creation of the Angels and their ability to rebel and unto mankind in the garden, with our ability to succeed or fail.

This freedom is a double edged sword. It is a limited freedom, but it is real and demonstrated in the successes and failures of all of God’s creation.

So I guess my question is, “Could God create a being, with real freedom, that would only choose good?” (Good being defined as aligned with God’s will)
Click to expand...
Yes. We can see this in the angels who love God.
 
exegete

exegete

Active member
#8
Dec 23, 2018
261
219
43
57
My Tiny Apartment
#8
Why not just ask, 'can God make a rock so big that even He can't move it?'

If we accept Jesus' statement that there is no one good except God alone as true (which I do); to surmise that God might create a being that would only "choose good" and by extension BE good, then it not too far of a stretch to say that God would then be creating a being equal to Himself.
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

Well-known member
#9
Jan 10, 2019
2,107
763
113
#9
exegete said:
Why not just ask, 'can God make a rock so big that even He can't move it?'

If we accept Jesus' statement that there is no one good except God alone as true (which I do); to surmise that God might create a being that would only "choose good" and by extension BE good, then it not too far of a stretch to say that God would then be creating a being equal to Himself.
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This is where Satan turned into a train wreck.
 
K

KnowMe

Guest
#10
#10
Sipsey said:
I will stop short of calling this a “lazy” answer, but are you insinuating that God can even lie?
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one would have to ask, was there anything created before the incident in the garden at the knowledge, created badly?

Did you not ask if God could not if God did but could? now you present another question about before the incident, that’s not the same as could God create. could God is a simple answer.
 
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KnowMe

Guest
#11
#11
exegete said:
Why not just ask, 'can God make a rock so big that even He can't move it?'

If we accept Jesus' statement that there is no one good except God alone as true (which I do); to surmise that God might create a being that would only "choose good" and by extension BE good, then it not too far of a stretch to say that God would then be creating a being equal to Himself.
Click to expand...
Did he for a moment in time or was man created to be bad?
 
K

KnowMe

Guest
#12
#12
Surely everyone know why Jesus said don’t call me good
 
Lanolin

Lanolin

Well-known member
#13
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,177
113
#13
Yes we are free in Christ..and the holy spirit in us can choose what is good, because the reality is if we choose what is evil we will perish! So who would be foolish enough to choose death when we can choose eternal life?

GOd does give us the capacity to choose only what is good. And we will when we are born again. How so, through Jesus of course. Being in Christ IS REAL FREEDOM.
 
JohnRH

JohnRH

Junior Member
#14
Mar 5, 2018
534
259
63
#14
Sipsey said:
So I guess my question is, “Could God create a being, with real freedom, that would only choose good?” (Good being defined as aligned with God’s will)
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I think He does when each person is born again.

And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Eph. 4:24
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2 Cor. 5:17

Only unsaved "whosoever wills" become new creatures (saved). They had the freedom to choose salvation before they became born again. Once they're newly created (born again) the choice of being saved or not is no longer submitted to their will. They're stuck with being what they are now: a new creature.
I think the "new man" only chooses good.
 
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