Genesis 1:26 & 27 revisited, the ECHAD of God as ONE.

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Apr 1, 2021
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#1
The GODHEAD, is it REALLY clear to YOU? The reason why many a christian has been told that the Godhead is a mystery is this, "PEOPLE JUST DON'T KNOW", meaning, they don't A. Read their bibles, or B. Read but without understanding, meaning reading without the Holy Spirit.

the Godhead is not a mystery as many think and believe, the bible gives clear understanding of this. scripture, Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:" this verse tell us that the Godhead is not a MYSTERY, and can be known. the early church knew, so why we cannot know?

the Start of this unveiling of the Godhead begins right in the book of Beginnings, GENESIS, chapter #1. but with an understanding of the Gohead as "ONE" LORD in the book of Deuteronomy 6:4

I would like to suggest an alternative to the the many main stream doctrine of the day. I believe that the reason why the Godhead is a mystery to some is because they do not clearly understand the term "ECHAD", H259 אֶחָד 'echad (ech-awd') adj. which is clearly an ADJECTIVE and not aNOUN. when one can fully understand the beginning in the Bible, one can truly appreciate the end of the Bible.

in that, one can be in complete comprehension of the Godhead without any doubt. so I'll start with the definition of "ECHAD"/ONE. and work our way to Genesis 1

H259 אֶחָד 'echad (ech-awd') adj.
1. (properly) united, i.e. one.
2. (as an ordinal) first.

[a numeral from H258]
KJV: a, alike, alone, altogether, and, any(-thing), apiece, a certain, (dai-)ly, each (one), + eleven, every, few, first, + highway, a man, once, one, only, other, some, together.
Root(s): H258
Please notice both definitions #1 and #2. THIS IS WHERE I BELIEVE THE MISTAKE WAS MADE BY MANY SCHOLARS.

examine both definition, and we will discuss the pros and cons of each.

PICJAG,
101G.
 
Apr 1, 2021
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#2
Looking at the above definition, definition #2. is the correct choice, why, because it describe what God is, and not WHO God is in NATURE, BUT "WHAT" HE IS IN NATURE, "a" Spirit. in definition #1. a united God would have two separate "Spirits"/NATURES, which is anti bible. and remember H259 אֶחָד 'echad is an ADJECTIVE, and not a NOUN, so it do not describe "Persons", but NATURE. and this NATURE, only, (ONE), "a" Spirit, per John 4:24a is expressed in Ordinal in definition, better know as "First", and "Last".

this is the KEY in the first step in understanding the Godhead at Genesis 1:1 and especially at Genesis 1:26 & 27. but most importantly, it give us the understanding of the Lord Jesus in the book of Revelation.

so my point is this.... did the scholars get the understanding of "ECHAD" wrong, in A. Nature of God, and B. in Person(s) of God.

if so, then many are following many false doctrines. so let's get it RIGHT.

PICJAG,
101G.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
4,888
1,510
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#3
An understanding of God as one is basic to understanding scripture. Often the doctrines accepted by earthly church are against this truth.

It is the same God with the very same ways that gave the new and old covenant. God improved the giving of the law from only in written form and after the Holy Spirit was given to all, the same law was written in our hearts. God gave us the Son in human form to give His blood on the altar for our sins, the very same way the shadow of Christ was given for the forgiveness of sin. God gave circumcision in our hearts, the same circumcision given when cutting of foreskin was performed to attest to this.
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
1,741
1,254
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#4
this is the KEY in the first step in understanding the Godhead at Genesis 1:1 and especially at Genesis 1:26 & 27. but most importantly, it give us the understanding of the Lord Jesus in the book of Revelation
It also gives us an understanding of Jesus in the book of John in regards to Him raising Himself from the dead. The Father (Galatians 1:1) and Holy Spirit (Romans 8:11) are also attributed with credit for raising Jesus from the dead. I believe this fact speaks to the essential Godhood of Jesus Christ as God Himself.

John 2:19-21
19Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 20Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? 21But he spake of the temple of his body.

John 10:17-18
17Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. 18No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
 
Apr 1, 2021
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#5
An understanding of God as one is basic to understanding scripture. Often the doctrines accepted by earthly church are against this truth.

It is the same God with the very same ways that gave the new and old covenant. God improved the giving of the law from only in written form and after the Holy Spirit was given to all, the same law was written in our hearts. God gave us the Son in human form to give His blood on the altar for our sins, the very same way the shadow of Christ was given for the forgiveness of sin. God gave circumcision in our hearts, the same circumcision given when cutting of foreskin was performed to attest to this.
First thanks for the reply, second I agree. but what I'm getting at is how God did it, (the dying for our sins). to me this is revealed in the term "ECHAD, not of person(s), but in being the "G243 ALOS" of himself, in flesh. this is expressed in idenification of the Ordinal "First", and the Ordinal "Last", just as Phil 2:6-8 describe.

as said, I agree that God is "ONE" God, who is ONE person, that is the ECHAD of his own-self, (per Isaiah 63:5).

thank for the reply.

PICJAG,
101G.
 
Apr 1, 2021
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#6
It also gives us an understanding of Jesus in the book of John in regards to Him raising Himself from the dead. The Father (Galatians 1:1) and Holy Spirit (Romans 8:11) are also attributed with credit for raising Jesus from the dead. I believe this fact speaks to the essential Godhood of Jesus Christ as God Himself.

John 2:19-21
19Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 20Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? 21But he spake of the temple of his body.

John 10:17-18
17Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. 18No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
thanks for the reply, I agree, but may I ask you, "Is not the Lord Jesus in glorification, (per John 17:5,) is the Holy Spirit with resurrected FLESH?"

is not he the Lord JESUS the "ANOTHER" of himself/Spirit in Glorified, supportive scripture, John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;"
John 14:17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."
John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you."

and he did come to them on the day of Pentecost... Acts chapter 2. can you concur with that assessment?

PICJAG,
101G.
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
1,741
1,254
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#7
thanks for the reply, I agree, but may I ask you, "Is not the Lord Jesus in glorification, (per John 17:5,) is the Holy Spirit with resurrected FLESH?"

is not he the Lord JESUS the "ANOTHER" of himself/Spirit in Glorified, supportive scripture, John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;"
John 14:17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."
John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you."

and he did come to them on the day of Pentecost... Acts chapter 2. can you concur with that assessment?

PICJAG,
101G.
Yes the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one.
 
Apr 1, 2021
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#8
Yes the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one.
Father Son, and Holy Spirit, are this one person in "Diversity?" or three separate, and distincr person(s)?

PICJAG,
101G.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
17,478
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#9
H259 אֶחָד 'echad (ech-awd') adj.
1. (properly) united, i.e. one.
2. (as an ordinal) first.
...
...

Please notice both definitions #1 and #2. THIS IS WHERE I BELIEVE THE MISTAKE WAS MADE BY MANY SCHOLARS.
I don't see how the definitions, by themselves, suggest that scholars have made an error. I also don't see how Strong's is the definitive source for this information.

Looking at the above definition, definition #2. is the correct choice, why, because it describe what God is, and not WHO God is in NATURE, BUT "WHAT" HE IS IN NATURE, "a" Spirit. in definition #1. a united God would have two separate "Spirits"/NATURES, which is anti bible.

and remember H259 אֶחָד 'echad is an ADJECTIVE, and not a NOUN, so it do not describe "Persons", but NATURE.
You are assuming that "united" means a union of two "Spirits"; that is not necessarily so. I think you're stretching the meaning of the words with your conclusion.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#10
Father Son, and Holy Spirit, are this one person in "Diversity?" or three separate, and distinct person(s)?
If you are still confused about this very BASIC and FUNDAMENTAL truth, then you should be asking questions and learning as a student, not trying to teach about the Godhead (which is indeed the Mystery of God and Christ).

So that everyone is clear, there is only ONE true and living God, who has eternally existed as three distinct divine Persons -- the Father, the Son (the Word), and the Holy Spirit.

Can any mortal man explain this anomaly? No. Can every Christian accept it by faith? Yes.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
18,332
4,653
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#11
Father Son, and Holy Spirit, are this one person in "Diversity?" or three separate, and distincr person(s)?

PICJAG,
101G.
The first of your two examples of definition cited. Very well put. Thank you and God bless you.
 

101G

Banned
Apr 1, 2021
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#12
I don't see how the definitions, by themselves, suggest that scholars have made an error. I also don't see how Strong's is the definitive source for this information.
GINOLJC, to all.
no, but it's what is c alled a "START" to learn. the definition points us in the right direction, example, as the Ordinal First as definition states, example, Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."
here the term "beginning" identify the Ordinal First in PLACE, TIME, POSITION, and ORDER. it is the Henrew word,
H7225 רֵאשִׁית re'shiyth (ray-sheeth') n-f.
1. the first, in place, time, order or rank.
2. (specifically) a firstfruit.
[from the same as H7218]
KJV: beginning, chief(-est), first(-fruits, part, time), principal thing.
Root(s): H7218

A. definition #1. states, the first, in place, time, order or rank. BINGO, our first of many confirmation of God as the Ordinal First. understand this "beginning" is the same idenification as in John 1:1, it is the Greek word,
G746 ἀρχή arche (ar-chee') n.
1. (properly abstract) a commencement.
2. (concretely) chief (in various applications of order, time, place, or rank).
[from G756]
KJV: beginning, corner, (at the, the) first (estate), magistrate, power, principality, principle, rule
Root(s): G756

THERE IT IS AGAIN, definition #2. (concretely) chief (in various applications of order, time, place, or rank).
did you see the difference now?...... "concretely", what was NOT SEEN at Genesis 1:1 is now "SEEN", or manifested at John 1:1.

so waht or who was at Genesis 1:1 was abstract/Spirit, but what was at John 1:1 was concrete/Flesh, bone and blood.
remember in the fulness of time Christ came, Galatians 4:4 "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law," BINGO, that's the KEY......... "the fulness of TIME". as in place, time, order or rank. TIME is the KEY in understand the ECHAD of God. listen,

Ephesians 1:10 "That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:"

this is why, God is called a H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem'), the plural of H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah), which is God's Nature in the the dispensation of the fulness of times. NOTICE "times" has an "s" at the end, indicating more than one.

this is where scholars miss it at in NATURE, and not PERSONS. lets see it clearly. Exodus 3:13 "And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?"
Exodus 3:14 "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you."


THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST OVERLOOKED, LEAST UNDERSTOOD STATEMENTS IN THE BIBLE. ""And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM"

this is not God's Name, as in "WHO" he is in Name, no, but this is God Name in "WHAT" he is in Name.... big difference.

I will explain this in coming post, but I want to stick to basic right now.

so from the the above definitions, we see God, the Spirit, is the Ordinal First in the dispensation of the fulness of times. meaning he is the ECHAD expressed in "First", and "Last".

we suggest one understand the difference in Cardinal Numbers, and Ordinal Numbers, then one can understand the order, time, place, or rank of God in his Nature as the ECHAD in Ordinal DEFINITION.

You are assuming that "united" means a union of two "Spirits"; that is not necessarily so. I think you're stretching the meaning of the words with your conclusion.
instead of a UNION, what if the ONE "Spirit" was the EQUAL "SHARE" of himself in FLESH, (per Phil 2:6), and NOT an UNION, but the amalgamation of the Shared Spirit in a NEW RESURRECTED body. consider this.....

Thanks for the enquiry, hope this topic will get intresting. for edification, a re-reading of this post maybe nessary.

PICJAG,
101G.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#13
As always I refer to Isaiah 9:6. All who believe understand and believe this teaching from the Word, that is from our Maker.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Did not Jesus tell the disciple that if he has seen Him, he has seen the Father?

People say they believe, yet they do not truly wish to do so.
 

Hungry

Senior Member
Nov 26, 2012
2,636
843
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#14
Granted I haven’t studied what you wrote and merely read it, point blank, what are your conclusions? Many Persons united in thought and deed, or one person manifested in multiple forms?
 

Hungry

Senior Member
Nov 26, 2012
2,636
843
113
#15
As always I refer to Isaiah 9:6. All who believe understand and believe this teaching from the Word, that is from our Maker.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Did not Jesus tell the disciple that if he has seen Him, he has seen the Father?

People say they believe, yet they do not truly wish to do so.
When I looked up the verse in Strong’s Bible “Everlasting Father” was just translated void of father. Was it added to propagate that Jesus is the Father, without Isaiah actually saying it?

Everlasting Father,
אֲבִיעַ֖ד (’ă·ḇî·‘aḏ)
Noun - proper - masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 5703: 1) perpetuity, for ever, continuing future 1a) ancient (of past time) 1b) for ever (of future time) 1b1) of continuous existence 1c) for ever (of God's existence)
 

101G

Banned
Apr 1, 2021
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#16
So that everyone is clear, there is only ONE true and living God, who has eternally existed as three distinct divine Persons -- the Father, the Son (the Word), and the Holy Spirit.
well... thanks for the reply, and second, this is my point in asking questions. God is not three persons. he's only one Person "diversified". now, I'm not about to see if you're right or wrong, nor I, that's childish. I seek TRUTH, and one do that by asking ... "QUESTION". yes, I have been taught the Godhead, but if we're to be christians in "LOVE", should we not walk in agrement, and not in argument? is not the scripture correct?... Amos 3:3 "Can two walk together, except they be agreed?" well this is my reason why I posted this topic, to hear all views and get the correct order of TRUTH. because, 2 Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" DO YOU NOT AGREE?
Can any mortal man explain this anomaly? No. Can every Christian accept it by faith? Yes.
on this point, YES, a mortal can explain if they was taught by God himself. for the bible is clear, Romans 1:19 "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them."

Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"

see, one have NO EXCUSE in not KNOWING the "GODHEAD". so we disagree with your assessment that no mortal man can explain the Godhead.

now please understand me here, I will not sit here and say I know ... "EVERYTHING" ... about God... NO. but on his Godhead, it is clearly laid out in his WORD, as said by his apostle here in Romans 1

as he said, "we may KNOW by the things that was ... "MADE". well MAN was MADE in his IMAGE, and that IMAGE is in the form of "ANOTHER", and the answer lay there. what is the definition of MAN? Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
MAN, it is the HEBREW word, H120 אָדָם 'adam (aw-dawm') n-m.
ruddy i.e. a human being (an individual or the species, mankind, etc.).
[from H119]
KJV: X another, + hypocrite, + common sort, X low, man (mean, of low degree), person.
Root(s): H119

BINGO, there is the answer to the Godhead in plain view. in the definition of MAN, H120 אָדָם 'adam, "ANOTHER", the Godhead is laid bare.... in Genesis 1:26 the MAKING of Man, (another, MAN, the woman) just told us the "ECHAD" of God...... "ANOTHER" of ONES OWN-SELF. understand, the term man, H120 אָדָם 'adam by the (kjv) can be translated as "X ANOTHER", (see in the above definition), just as the Greeks in the NT carry the same IDENIFICATION in the term, "ANOTHER", G243 Allos, listen, "Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort". my source is the Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words.

examine this definition. A. numerical difference this is the ECHAD of God, or the "ANOTHER" of God in Ordinal designations, (and these designations are in TIME, PLACE, RANK, and here ORDER), just as the bible states, "FIRST", and "LAST".

B. "another of the same sort". is the same, same, same, one person, not three, but the "EQUAL SHARE" of oneself as Phil 2:6 clearly states, and explains. as well as Isaiah 63:5, his OWN ARM in FLESH and BLOOD, again the ECHAD in full display.

so the term ADAM/MAN... "Which was made by God shows us the Godhead as the "ANOTHER" of GOD shared in Flesh as the ECHD of himself in ordinal designations, BINGO... easy as pie to understand. but there is much much more.

PICJAG,
101G.
 

101G

Banned
Apr 1, 2021
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#17
The first of your two examples of definition cited. Very well put. Thank you and God bless you.
Thank you, and May God richly bless you in this topic.

PICJAG,
101G.
 

101G

Banned
Apr 1, 2021
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#18
As always I refer to Isaiah 9:6. All who believe understand and believe this teaching from the Word, that is from our Maker.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Did not Jesus tell the disciple that if he has seen Him, he has seen the Father?

People say they believe, yet they do not truly wish to do so.
Thanks, we will, by God's Grace, get to Isaiah 9:6. YES, you're 100% correct.

PICJAG,
101G.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
18,332
4,653
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#19
When I looked up the verse in Strong’s Bible “Everlasting Father” was just translated void of father. Was it added to propagate that Jesus is the Father, without Isaiah actually saying it?

Everlasting Father,
אֲבִיעַ֖ד (’ă·ḇî·‘aḏ)
Noun - proper - masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 5703: 1) perpetuity, for ever, continuing future 1a) ancient (of past time) 1b) for ever (of future time) 1b1) of continuous existence 1c) for ever (of God's existence)
Is there really that great a difference? If the Child born to us is our Fasdther, it seems He woulld be the Eternal. Did you notice the other titles given?
 

101G

Banned
Apr 1, 2021
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#20
Granted I haven’t studied what you wrote and merely read it, point blank, what are your conclusions? Many Persons united in thought and deed, or one person manifested in multiple forms?
Hi "H", you're hitting on the head of what this whole topic is about. so lets get down to business .... on what you just expressed. "HOW MANY?". so let's go to the bible...

Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."

Here God is expressed in a plurality of "US", and "OUR"... right, well lets see what the very NEXT verse say, listen,

Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."
HOLD IT, STOP the press, how did God go from a plurality of "US", and "OUR", to singularity of "HIS", and "HE?".... well I'll hold my answer for now and alow other to respond. but I warn you, remember what the apostle said by the Holy Spirit, Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"

now, verse 26 said, "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness" STOP, let "US", meaning more than ONE MADE MAN, correct...... man was made male and female right.... right.......... well Houston we have a problem, and here's the Problem... while speaking with the Pharisees concerning divorcement, the Lord Jesus said this,
Matthew 19:4 "And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female," Uh O, our Lord Jesus, WHO CANNOT LIE, said "HE" a single person, MADE, MADE, man male and female. and the Lord Jesus cannot LIE. so, he who made man was a single person. but did not GOD say, "Let US", which is a plurality? yes, so now the question how is God a plurality in Genesis 1:26 & 27, when the Lord Jesus said, "HE" a single person, made man.

THIS IS THE BEAUITY OF "Diversified Oneness", or the ECHAD of God in TIME, PLACE, RANK, and ORDER. Oh my, my, my.... GOD........ the H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') in diversified Nature.

PICJAG,
101G.