Goal or Gateway ? Empowering of the Holy Spirit

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49

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Jun 28, 2015
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You still believe in the necessity of circumcision for salvation? Had God changed from Genesis 17?


No circumcision for salvation.

God is the same yesterday, today, tomorrow, and forever....
 
Jan 12, 2019
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No circumcision for salvation.

God is the same yesterday, today, tomorrow, and forever....
If he is always the same, then you will be cut off from his covenant if you refuse to be circumcised.

Gen 17

9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.

10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

You cannot pick and choose if you want to insist that God never changed in his dealings with man.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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OK, in the context you are saying it and what you mean I understand.

But my mother never allowed us to call anyone or anything "foolish" - so that is how I was brought up! LOL!

I have had my run-ins with a certain person as well and found it best to just stay quiet - but I am in full agreement that the OP who starts the thread has a right to defend the thread and keep it on target to his thoughts.
Your mother is right :) I will not correct momma :)
 

Mii

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Mar 23, 2019
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So I thought a little bit about this thread last night randomly (to me) when I was writing and was thinking about a goal...part of my goals are, well...setting my eyes on achieving it similar to the way Paul laid it out in running a race...

I don't expect to take hold of these goals in this life necessarily and "arrive" at them, but that eventually by the Lord's grace I shall. Perhaps I should call them a "focus" and a "narrowing" of unbridled focus at that. Setting my eyes on what is ahead and not focusing overmuch on the past (except as a tool) is a goal of mine.

There are many "goals" that I have but quite a few I believe are shared goals or "foci" that is rooted in the Lord. After a fashion that is what faith can become. Eventually we all WILL cross the finish line and the goal realized, but what plays, penalties, and time outs occur during the process are unique to each individual.

Hopefully I'm not blending too many analogies at once, but I am trying to grasp what you mean in general. I don't think a believer should consider being filled with the spirit a one-time event. They are indwelt and there is a continual filling and pouring out so it's more of a "process" than something that is realized much like being saved.

You are saved, you are being saved and you will be saved. It's not something that can be summited, but rather is a continual summiting of one peak to valley to peak again. A journey and a process...

We are vessels and as a vessel that pours out I can see being a gateway as a living "state" so to speak.

The image in mind at present is the "floating faucet" which you can look up if you like. It makes sense that some people might understand it as a goal to be turned on and tuned in (as a lifelong process) and others may simply understand it as more of a gateway but unless someone views it as a one-time event and not a continual process I think they are more or less understanding correctly.
 

49

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2015
1,678
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If he is always the same, then you will be cut off from his covenant if you refuse to be circumcised.

Gen 17

9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.

10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

You cannot pick and choose if you want to insist that God never changed in his dealings with man.


Done here. Not having my words twisted nor misunderstood.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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So I thought a little bit about this thread last night randomly (to me) when I was writing and was thinking about a goal...part of my goals are, well...setting my eyes on achieving it similar to the way Paul laid it out in running a race...

I don't expect to take hold of these goals in this life necessarily and "arrive" at them, but that eventually by the Lord's grace I shall. Perhaps I should call them a "focus" and a "narrowing" of unbridled focus at that. Setting my eyes on what is ahead and not focusing overmuch on the past (except as a tool) is a goal of mine.

There are many "goals" that I have but quite a few I believe are shared goals or "foci" that is rooted in the Lord. After a fashion that is what faith can become. Eventually we all WILL cross the finish line and the goal realized, but what plays, penalties, and time outs occur during the process are unique to each individual.

Hopefully I'm not blending too many analogies at once, but I am trying to grasp what you mean in general. I don't think a believer should consider being filled with the spirit a one-time event. They are indwelt and there is a continual filling and pouring out so it's more of a "process" than something that is realized much like being saved.

You are saved, you are being saved and you will be saved. It's not something that can be summited, but rather is a continual summiting of one peak to valley to peak again. A journey and a process...

We are vessels and as a vessel that pours out I can see being a gateway as a living "state" so to speak.

The image in mind at present is the "floating faucet" which you can look up if you like. It makes sense that some people might understand it as a goal to be turned on and tuned in (as a lifelong process) and others may simply understand it as more of a gateway but unless someone views it as a one-time event and not a continual process I think they are more or less understanding correctly.
you want to call it "focus" and a "narrowing" in your own thread LOL. This thread is about the empowering of the Holy Spirit in the believer and the question is it a Goal or Gateway.
This is about not me but the Holy Spirt in the believer as Jesus said in Acts 1:8

You shall receive power after the Holy Spirit has come upon you to be a witness.
 

Mii

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Mar 23, 2019
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you want to call it "focus" and a "narrowing" in your own thread LOL.
This statement is unclear to me.

Half of my post was about the empowerment and the wording that helps me to understand it. People do use different words to describe the same thing and it was my intention to confirm that with words and concepts I am familiar with.

I already said (I think) in another post that the word gateway reminds me of the word "channel" or "medium" which has negative connotation in scripture...but that doesn't necessarily mean that just because you used that word that you meant that. I think you did not, only that your particular wording puts that to mind "for me", which is why I was trying to connect with my own terminology and see if I could understand a little better.
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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This statement is unclear to me.

Half of my post was about the empowerment and the wording that helps me to understand it. People do use different words to describe the same thing and it was my intention to confirm that with words and concepts I am familiar with.

I already said (I think) in another post that the word gateway reminds me of the word "channel" or "medium" which has negative connotation in scripture...but that doesn't necessarily mean that just because you used that word that you meant that. I think you did not, only that your particular wording puts that to mind "for me", which is why I was trying to connect with my own terminology and see if I could understand a little better.
to you it maybe unclear, but if you know about the City of Jerusalem it had many gates. And I provided description to the context of my thread, none of it had anything to do with "medium" or "Channel". Nor did I see any reference or mention of the Holy Spirit of empowerment of the Holy Spirit in your post I responded to. :)
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Done here. Not having my words twisted nor misunderstood.
You made a very strong claim in your first post "It is amazing that some folk seem to think certain Scripture only applied/applies to such and such people, and that it has no bearing today. Unbelievable"

So you do believe now that God does change in his dealings with Man correct?

That was all I am trying to clarify
 

Mii

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Mar 23, 2019
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to you it maybe unclear, but if you know about the City of Jerusalem it had many gates. And I provided description to the context of my thread, none of it had anything to do with "medium" or "Channel". Nor did I see any reference or mention of the Holy Spirit of empowerment of the Holy Spirit in your post I responded to. :)
This is an excerpt of my post, I am quite honestly confused. Being filled with the Lord's Spirit is what I was discussing. Are you making a distinction between being filled and empowerment?




"I don't think a believer should consider being filled with the spirit a one-time event. They are indwelt and there is a continual filling and pouring out so it's more of a "process" than something that is realized much like being saved.

You are saved, you are being saved and you will be saved. It's not something that can be summited, but rather is a continual summiting of one peak to valley to peak again. A journey and a process...

We are vessels and as a vessel that pours out I can see being a gateway as a living "state" so to speak.

The image in mind at present is the "floating faucet" which you can look up if you like. It makes sense that some people might understand it as a goal to be turned on and tuned in (as a lifelong process) and others may simply understand it as more of a gateway but unless someone views it as a one-time event and not a continual process I think they are more or less understanding correctly."
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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This is an excerpt of my post, I am quite honestly confused. Being filled with the Lord's Spirit is what I was discussing. Are you making a distinction between being filled and empowerment?




"I don't think a believer should consider being filled with the spirit a one-time event. They are indwelt and there is a continual filling and pouring out so it's more of a "process" than something that is realized much like being saved.

You are saved, you are being saved and you will be saved. It's not something that can be summited, but rather is a continual summiting of one peak to valley to peak again. A journey and a process...

We are vessels and as a vessel that pours out I can see being a gateway as a living "state" so to speak.

The image in mind at present is the "floating faucet" which you can look up if you like. It makes sense that some people might understand it as a goal to be turned on and tuned in (as a lifelong process) and others may simply understand it as more of a gateway but unless someone views it as a one-time event and not a continual process I think they are more or less understanding correctly."
Jesus did :)
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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if the ending of Mark 16 was lacking as you SAY, Then rip out of your Bible. But I would ask you why is it there, in Mark 16:15-18
AND in the KJV , NIV, NASB, RSV, and the ASV all have is so, why?

And if it is not there what about the words that are written?

5 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the [c]gospel to the whole creation. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned. 17 And these signs shall accompany them that believe: in my name shall they cast out demons; they shall speak with [d]new tongues; 18 they shall take up serpents, and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall in no wise hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Was anything here that was added as you are suggesting not Biblical?

Do any of the other Gospel writings say contextually what is here in Mark 16:15-18?

Did Jesus say anything similar in any other Gospel?

You believe that Mark chapter 16 end at verse 14 with these words:

"Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. "


Well, let's look at if Mark 16:15-18 that can't be found in the manuscripts, can be found in other writings of the Gospels, shall we.
Scripture interprets scripture.


  1. Matthew 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
  2. Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
  3. Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
  4. Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Your comment is very telling as to why you have a bias and I might add and error in your biblical understanding.

You look at Mark 16:15-18 and say "It is inconsistent with the rest of Mark and the whole of scripture. "

NO, IT IS NOT. You look at the word of God to discredit and support your bias, but did not ask in the light of all the other translation why is it still there?

Because Mark 16:15-18 does not take away from the context of the word of God and The Apostles did do everything that Jesus is believed to have said in MARK 16:15-18 AND YOU CAN FIND IT IN THE BOOK OF ACTS.

So, you go right ahead and rip out Mark 16:15-28, and if you level it is you are a hypocrite with bias and if you take it out you know more than all the other translations that left it. Which makes you prideful and foolish.
You cite translations to certify the validity of the original manuscripts. Those who study the original manuscripts have long been concerned that the ending of Marks 16 from verses 9-20 are not in the most ancient manuscripts.

My warning is that you should not form doctrine on these verses. They are useful when taken in context with the rest of scripture but to cite them as foundational verses for doctrine is in your favorite new word foolish.

You continue to make things up and to add your fantasies to what the Acts of the Apostles and the Gospels contain.

Next you will start playing with serpents and drinking deadly poisons. Don't do it for it is foolishness.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Mar 28, 2016
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The resurrection is why we are use by the power of the Holy Spirit to do signs and wonders
We must be careful how we hear .

We do not work signs and wonders. When the unbelievers in Acts 14 heard the gospel preached through the mouth of His apostle .Stand upright on thy feet . he leaped and walked by his new faith it empower him to leap and walk.

Those who sought after signs wonders false gospel and not the words preached. blasphemed the name of God by accrediting the work to the apostles seen and not the power of the gospel .Calling them gods in the likeness of men Rather than men in the likeness of God

Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked. And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men.Acts 14:10-11

Jesus informs us of those who seek after a signs and wonders (????) gospel . Wondering, marveling using ones imaginations can only produce doubt(? ???) And not faith. A law that works from within the new creatures.

It would seem to lead back to defining the "tongue of God". Those who make it into a unknown gift, they have nothing to prove their false hope.

Tongues is the word of God's prophecy . Our new born again tongue by which we offer the gospel "understanding" It as it is written works to drive out lying spirits .

A one time filling of the Spirit (not twice a week) performed by the unseen Spirit of baptism. Not John baptism performed when a new believer has a desire as a member of the kingdoms of priest

The unknow nothing, proves nothing.

Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: Acts 24:13-14
 
Mar 28, 2016
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in between the signs and the wonders, if you do not walk by faith (believing it is the right thing to do and continuing on even with no sign at that time or leading) you might fall away from God and into sin (missing the mark) and it can be hard to get back.


…37For, “In just a little while, He who is coming will come and will not delay. 38But My righteous one will live by faith; and if he shrinks back, I will take no pleasure in him.” 39But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and preserve their souls.…

not continuing to walk in faith destroys our walk in Christ for a time, but continuing in faith to follow God perserves the right spirit in us (at that time that we walk in faith, not in the future).


Hab. 2:4 "... but the just shall live by his faith." (NKJ)
Yes by His faith that works in us with us making our burden lighter. Just as the father in the Son of man making his burden lighter. Salvation the work of two or three working as one.

I would offer another perspective . It would seem that some miss the mark by wondering rather than hitting that which is seen, the written law, the Bible, the gospel of our salvation..

From my experience it has to do with the phrase "sign and wonder" . Not just sign. or just wonder. The last wonder being fulfilled with Jesus. The sign of Jonas fulfilled in the Son of man, Jesus. Jesus said its a evil generation (natural man ) that does seek after wonderments

When asked for a sign when making the temple desolate, The abomination of desolation ( Mathew 24). no last day was given we are not of the number natural man we walk by faith the unseen will that works in us. They were given sign without the principle of wondering. The signs given which are simply saying things will continue as they have been like in the days Noah before the flood

The last wonder again was already fulfilled. The author of lying wonders could keep the unbelievers in a state of confusion never coming to the understanding of faith .

Using the the signs that Jesus gave. The father of lies uses them as lying wonders. Today every time one (earthquake war or rumors') does appear men think it is the end of the world. Getting worked up over nothing.

We walk by faith the eternal understanding not seen. No need to wonder rather than believe.

Jesus, The Son of God will come like a thief in the night. He desires we trust his word and not be led astray by wondering(? ? ?) Will I surely die?

Satan said look at me and live . Our father in heaven father desired we walk after the unseen faith. He did not desire than mankind obey the voice of wondering. (Did God say?)The glory of God departed

Genesis 3 King James Version (KJV) Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:


Satan with all power and lying wonders. And as a result the Spirit of Christ sends a strong delusion so that those who do wonder can keep on wondering. Not believing the truth

2 thessoloinian 2: 9-12 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in
unrighteousness.. . .

"Wondering, marveling imagining never coming to the truth of the gospel "

2 Corinthians 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;




.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
You cite translations to certify the validity of the original manuscripts. Those who study the original manuscripts have long been concerned that the ending of Marks 16 from verses 9-20 are not in the most ancient manuscripts.

My warning is that you should not form doctrine on these verses. They are useful when taken in context with the rest of scripture but to cite them as foundational verses for doctrine is in your favorite new word foolish.

You continue to make things up and to add your fantasies to what the Acts of the Apostles and the Gospels contain.

Next you will start playing with serpents and drinking deadly poisons. Don't do it for it is foolishness.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_16

A very thorough explanation of every manuscript with and without the long ending. After reading through this information I am even more confident than ever that it belongs. Some of the blank columns in the other manuscripts might mean something. It was accepted as canon very early on. Probably for the same reason we do today. The Spirit bears witness with our spirit that it is the Word of God. It only irritates those who reject the idea that all believers will speak in tongues. That is probably why it is missing from the manuscripts it is missing from.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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You cite translations to certify the validity of the original manuscripts. Those who study the original manuscripts have long been concerned that the ending of Marks 16 from verses 9-20 are not in the most ancient manuscripts.

My warning is that you should not form doctrine on these verses. They are useful when taken in context with the rest of scripture but to cite them as foundational verses for doctrine is in your favorite new word foolish.

You continue to make things up and to add your fantasies to what the Acts of the Apostles and the Gospels contain.

Next you will start playing with serpents and drinking deadly poisons. Don't do it for it is foolishness.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
LOL you have made a booboo. The manuscript is not an "Original" it is a copy from the original known as the Autograph. All manuscripts are copies from that either made earlier or later. You accuse me of making things up, yet you don't even know what a manuscript is. And again you did not provide any Biblical chapters, verses, or even a sentence from the Bible to refute what I used in
Mathews 28, Acts 1:8, Luke 24 and Mark 16:15-18.

You Just have mocking and scoffing. Your disrespect for God's word now you try to insult about poisons and serpents.

Thank you for confirming what I have said another thread like this one. You at the end of the day have no Biblical refute. And will admit you are wrong by mocking and scoffing. Thank you.

The Thread is Goal or Gateway
and many have enjoyed it. and still will :)
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
9,165
2,874
113
We must be careful how we hear .

We do not work signs and wonders. When the unbelievers in Acts 14 heard the gospel preached through the mouth of His apostle .Stand upright on thy feet . he leaped and walked by his new faith it empower him to leap and walk.

Those who sought after signs wonders false gospel and not the words preached. blasphemed the name of God by accrediting the work to the apostles seen and not the power of the gospel .Calling them gods in the likeness of men Rather than men in the likeness of God

Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked. And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men.Acts 14:10-11

Jesus informs us of those who seek after a signs and wonders (????) gospel . Wondering, marveling using ones imaginations can only produce doubt(? ???) And not faith. A law that works from within the new creatures.

It would seem to lead back to defining the "tongue of God". Those who make it into a unknown gift, they have nothing to prove their false hope.

Tongues is the word of God's prophecy . Our new born again tongue by which we offer the gospel "understanding" It as it is written works to drive out lying spirits .

A one time filling of the Spirit (not twice a week) performed by the unseen Spirit of baptism. Not John baptism performed when a new believer has a desire as a member of the kingdoms of priest

The unknow nothing, proves nothing.

Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: Acts 24:13-14
completely out of context in my very sentence, you wrote this long out of context post

The resurrection is why we are use
by the power of the Holy Spirit to do signs and wonders "

you make false assertions.

The filling with the Holy Spirit is not a one-time event LOL as you suggest. You do not understand what Jesus said in John 14

In you and with you" and upon you. I am not going to go through all of the out of context things you posted. like you are posting a bunch of fluffy to hide your errors.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
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Did show you, you did not agree with it because you know more than those who were eyewitness count of the events over the past 1900 years.

Irenaeus, theologian of the Holy Spirit,

180-185 AD
The Spirit descended upon Jesus at his baptism and sanctified his humanity (Adversus Haereses 3, 9, 3). The Spirit continues Christ's work in the church, which is itself a gift from the Spirit (Jaschke 1976:266-267). The expression 'Where the Church is, there is also the Spirit of God; where the Spirit of God is, there is also the Church


and all grace' (Adversus Haereses 3, 24, 1; SC 211, 474) has become crucially important in subsequent Christian tradition. Finally, and equally significant, the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the sanctification of man and his transformation into the image of Christ, living in us to grant divine life to us. This very same Spirit is also the source of all charismata.

The Charismata is a greek word which is speaking of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit. read 1 cor chapter 12

The empowerment of The Church as not stopped AS Jesus said it would not I'm sure you know mo
re than Irenaeus.

Tertullian

220AD

The Spirit is bestowed as a gift from the Father, through the Son (a patre per filium)5, onto the Church.

Novatian and Hilary
367AD


He emphasises the Spirit's 'personhood', but also speaks of the Spirit as a divine gift (donum), the source of all godly life.


I Clemens, Justin, Irenaeus
and many more


Revivals and movements of God have many testimonies and well documented healings by your beloved media.
WE have provided this to you in fact I can go back to older threads where it was given to you and you there did as you are now doing. you have an old attack method that has been debunked and given to you what you asked. BUT you don't accept it. so be it.
Nowhere i claimed that the Holy Spirit is not working today and is not giving Spiritual gifts to the believers today for to build the church. (Even it is not practised in many churches) And his visible power is seen special in Mission Situations. But neither in the from you mentioned revivals of the newer churchhistory not after the 4th century it is reportet that speaking in tongues is the evidence that someone is empowered with the Holy Spirit. The church soon after the last Apostles became worldy and the montanism which was an cult with Strange teachings and false prophets was seen from many as an revival movement and even Tertuliqn became later an member of this cult.
Non of the churchfathers were to set equal in their teachings with the word of God. Only because God uses them says not that they are right in all there teachings and sayings.
Your teaching claimes that people who are not speaking in tongues cant be empowered with the holy Spirit for the ministry.
And this is simply not true.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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Nowhere i claimed that the Holy Spirit is not working today and is not giving Spiritual gifts to the believers today for to build the church. (Even it is not practised in many churches) And his visible power is seen special in Mission Situations. But neither in the from you mentioned revivals of the newer churchhistory not after the 4th century it is reportet that speaking in tongues is the evidence that someone is empowered with the Holy Spirit. The church soon after the last Apostles became worldy and the montanism which was an cult with Strange teachings and false prophets was seen from many as an revival movement and even Tertuliqn became later an member of this cult.
Non of the churchfathers were to set equal in their teachings with the word of God. Only because God uses them says not that they are right in all there teachings and sayings.
Your teaching claimes that people who are not speaking in tongues cant be empowered with the holy Spirit for the ministry.
And this is simply not true.
Wrong! it is not my teaching. I have never said if you do not speak in tongues you can't be empowered with the Holy Spirit. That is lie you have told and assumption. Please do not speak untruthfully of my Thread. It doesn't even say that. If you are looking to be confrontational find another venue. Thank you.