God and Science

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Aerials1978

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2019
1,131
669
113
#1
As I find myself in different conversations online, I always come across the atheist that uses a bunch of scientific terminologies and processes to explain how the universe came into being.

I never run away from the challenge. Of course I’m called a “Flat-Earther, snake charmer, friend of an invisible friend, yada, yada.” The interesting thing is they never have a real answer for the obvious “How something come from nothing?”

If you find yourself in a position like that, what would you say from a Biblical or even a scientific standpoint to show them there is a real concept of a God? Would you Genesis? Use quantum physics? Mathematics? The historical evidence for Christ’s death and resurrection? Biology?

Thoughts and opinions?
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
2,354
725
113
#2
God created and knows all that science discovers, and knows the facts of their discoveries. At one point in our world's time it was said the world was flat. God knew it was round, and when science discovered that, we discovered what the meaning really was when scripture told of the four corners of the earth.

God lives in a different dimension, in God's world there is no time everything simply is. Scripture calls it eternity. In our world of time as we know it, it is difficult for us to grasp the dimension we label as spiritual. Unless we are born again it is impossible. People who have closed their mind to the God world are simply there. Until they accept God they are stuck, and all the PHD's there is won't open then to those truths.

When we have the holy spirit in our life, when we have been born again so we can learn from God, we have knowledge more valuable than secular teaching can give.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
11,026
4,341
113
#3
If you find yourself in a position like that, what would you say from a Biblical or even a scientific standpoint to show them there is a real concept of a God?
The mathematical precision which is built into the laws of the universe are sufficient to shown that a Creator is behind His creation. For example, the existence of fractals throughout nature is a very solid proof of a Designer using mathematics to create beautiful and intricate designs in even the most insignificant things.

1581543757811.png

BTW since Atheists are WILFULLY IGNORANT, no amount of proof will change their foolish thinking.
 

Aerials1978

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2019
1,131
669
113
#4
I completely agree. That’s why I have no issues discussing such things. The “Trap” I like to call it when we cannot answer their questions with what is consider “Sound logic” and then it’s ahhh, you don’t know how molecular mechanics operate so you’re wrong. This is always end result. Of course I challenge them by saying that they know the process but cannot explain the origins. I don’t let my limited knowledge of things allow me to retreat.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
4,323
1,527
113
#5
As I find myself in different conversations online, I always come across the atheist that uses a bunch of scientific terminologies and processes to explain how the universe came into being.

I never run away from the challenge. Of course I’m called a “Flat-Earther, snake charmer, friend of an invisible friend, yada, yada.” The interesting thing is they never have a real answer for the obvious “How something come from nothing?”

If you find yourself in a position like that, what would you say from a Biblical or even a scientific standpoint to show them there is a real concept of a God? Would you Genesis? Use quantum physics? Mathematics? The historical evidence for Christ’s death and resurrection? Biology?

Thoughts and opinions?
Science compliments the creator. For example just recently secular scientists discovered mankind originated from a beginning couple, male and female. Intelligent Design or ID science has many compelling explanations for the evidence that parts of creation could of only came from a Intelligent source. But you are correct. All our evidence points to a universe being created from nothing. Space, time, and matter came into existence at the same time.

We only have two options. Either nothing brought forth something or something brought forth something.

To me it takes a lot of faith to say nothing brought forth something. That sounds silly. As science also depends on your 5 senses and repeated actions call empirical science would suggest we have never seen nothing to ever create anything. Forensic science replays us a story of the beginning and astrology provides us with the evidence.

Our senses also say only language comes from intelligence. And one of the most detailed languages come from DNA or even math.

Math also points to intelligence but also is proof of metaphysics that atheists are forced to deny if they are true materialist. Math cannot be created but only discovered by mankind. 1+1=2 has never changed but always a reality regardless if we know it or not. Every object in the universe has a mathematical equation. As if a master programmer wrote up this massive code for the universe.

Architects and even medical professionals use these equations from nature that provides perfect designs. By copying the world around us, scientists believe they can find innovative solutions to almost any problem imaginable. Biomimetics (or biomimicry) has already led to the development of technology as diverse as airplanes, Velcro, windshield wipers, and sharkskin swimsuits.

Quantum physics is still something even if we do not fully understand it. Nor have we ever experienced anything being created from it. Quantum physics has so many theories and they are constantly debunked. Albert Einstein, himself one of the founders of quantum theory, did not accept some of the more philosophical or metaphysical interpretations of quantum mechanics, such as rejection of determinism and of causality. He is famously quoted as saying, in response to this aspect, "God does not play with dice".

We also can revert to showing how most of the famous scientists throughout history believed in God including many still alive today who hold prizes and achievements for their discoveries in science but are also Christians.

It is a logic error to even say God doesn't exist. You cannot do a science experiment to prove God doesn't exist nor can the individual surf the Heavens. So one if honest has to be agnostic.

Going back to the metaphysical realm. Without a non material realm we wouldn't have logic, reason, laws of nature, math, or a mind. So a materialist must deny all those too.

Making them really have to live on faith to believe that. Plus the field of archeology, textual criticism, historians and again forensic science continues to prove the Bible to be true with many discoveries each year as we continue to dig around the Holy Land.

So many ways to go especially look up the acronym SURGE related to God and creation.
 

Scrobulous

Active member
Sep 17, 2018
285
72
28
#6
I would turn the tables on the atheists, since you hold all the cards. Ask them to explain how a universe arose from nothing. No argument makes sense. Lawrence Krauss has tried to make the scientific case for this idea. It is utterly demolished by John C. Lennox. See the you tube videos! Or Lennox’s books.


The essential thing to remember is that the existence of God is a philosophical question not a scientific one. Science cannot answer philosophical questions, it is a category error to assume otherwise. Science tells us how the universe works, not why. Reliable science knows that the cause of the universe did not arise inside the universe itself and the laws of physics break down at the big bang singularity. The best an honest scientist can say is that science can tell us nothing about how the universe started and cannot possibly tell us why it started! Speculations about multiverses are just that, speculations! There is no scientific basis to support them. It is because Christians do not realise this that they are easily spooked by atheists, who are playing them for suckers.


The atheist can make a valid point. He can say that just because he cannot explain the universe, he doesn’t have to believe that a ‘sky fairy’ did it. But this is a position of weakness. It is the atheist who doesn’t know where the universe came from, but he rejects God’s revelation.


So, we get to the real issue - the motivation for our assumptions. The atheists does not want to believe. The universe is just an excuse to justify his unbelief. It doesn’t matter what you say, he has an interest in finding ANY excuse or explanation that gets him off the hook. You should tell him this. That he is hiding from God because he loves his sins. The give him the gospel and let the gospel do its glorious work.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
44,869
18,438
113
#7
As I find myself in different conversations online, I always come across the atheist that uses a bunch of scientific terminologies and processes to explain how the universe came into being.

I never run away from the challenge. Of course I’m called a “Flat-Earther, snake charmer, friend of an invisible friend, yada, yada.” The interesting thing is they never have a real answer for the obvious “How something come from nothing?”

If you find yourself in a position like that, what would you say from a Biblical or even a scientific standpoint to show them there is a real concept of a God? Would you Genesis? Use quantum physics? Mathematics? The historical evidence for Christ’s death and resurrection? Biology?

Thoughts and opinions?
A fool that denies the existence of God and or a created universe will believe nothing we say and or any proof we may give.....only God can open their welded shut eyes..........

On a side note......I honestly cannot grasp the concept that ONE can LOOK at a human being or even nature itself and then deny the existence of the (not a) creator.......

this may be a little graphic, but even semen....when looked at in a microscope REVEALS numerous working parts, and gear like structures assembled together into a mini machine.......it literally reeks of design.........

A fool has said in his heart there is no God..........!!
 

Aerials1978

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2019
1,131
669
113
#8
Science compliments the creator. For example just recently secular scientists discovered mankind originated from a beginning couple, male and female. Intelligent Design or ID science has many compelling explanations for the evidence that parts of creation could of only came from a Intelligent source. But you are correct. All our evidence points to a universe being created from nothing. Space, time, and matter came into existence at the same time.

We only have two options. Either nothing brought forth something or something brought forth something.

To me it takes a lot of faith to say nothing brought forth something. That sounds silly. As science also depends on your 5 senses and repeated actions call empirical science would suggest we have never seen nothing to ever create anything. Forensic science replays us a story of the beginning and astrology provides us with the evidence.

Our senses also say only language comes from intelligence. And one of the most detailed languages come from DNA or even math.

Math also points to intelligence but also is proof of metaphysics that atheists are forced to deny if they are true materialist. Math cannot be created but only discovered by mankind. 1+1=2 has never changed but always a reality regardless if we know it or not. Every object in the universe has a mathematical equation. As if a master programmer wrote up this massive code for the universe.

Architects and even medical professionals use these equations from nature that provides perfect designs. By copying the world around us, scientists believe they can find innovative solutions to almost any problem imaginable. Biomimetics (or biomimicry) has already led to the development of technology as diverse as airplanes, Velcro, windshield wipers, and sharkskin swimsuits.

Quantum physics is still something even if we do not fully understand it. Nor have we ever experienced anything being created from it. Quantum physics has so many theories and they are constantly debunked. Albert Einstein, himself one of the founders of quantum theory, did not accept some of the more philosophical or metaphysical interpretations of quantum mechanics, such as rejection of determinism and of causality. He is famously quoted as saying, in response to this aspect, "God does not play with dice".

We also can revert to showing how most of the famous scientists throughout history believed in God including many still alive today who hold prizes and achievements for their discoveries in science but are also Christians.

It is a logic error to even say God doesn't exist. You cannot do a science experiment to prove God doesn't exist nor can the individual surf the Heavens. So one if honest has to be agnostic.

Going back to the metaphysical realm. Without a non material realm we wouldn't have logic, reason, laws of nature, math, or a mind. So a materialist must deny all those too.

Making them really have to live on faith to believe that. Plus the field of archeology, textual criticism, historians and again forensic science continues to prove the Bible to be true with many discoveries each year as we continue to dig around the Holy Land.

So many ways to go especially look up the acronym SURGE related to God and creation.
What some people do(and this can apply to anyone, especially defense lawyers) is keep one off guard by bombarding with questions and accusations. This particular individual whom I was having a discourse with kept doing. Again, I don’t mind having these conversations and I’m not deterred into retreat. I’m just doing why the Bible says by giving an account as to why I have the faith I have.
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
1,627
1,720
113
63
#9
Hello @Ariels1978, I've always found Dr. Spoul's argument of the existence shoes humorous, but valuable:

https://renewingyourmind.org/2018/01/05/the-existence-of-shoes

In the first chapter of Romans, the Apostle Paul tells us that we know God exists by creation. But ever since Immanuel Kant’s critique, many have concluded that we can never rationally know God’s existence by considering creation. Was Kant right? Rather than taking the traditional arguments for the existence of God, Dr. Sproul will take another approach in this message as he explains how we can prove God’s existence with one shoe and simple logic.

Or you might enjoy the entire series that The Existence of Shoes comes from (Objections Answered), available online for free right now at:

https://www.ligonier.org/learn/series/objections-answered/reason-to-believe/?

~Deut
 

Aerials1978

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2019
1,131
669
113
#10
Hello @Ariels1978, I've always found Dr. Spoul's argument of the existence shoes humorous, but valuable: https://renewingyourmind.org/2018/01/05/the-existence-of-shoes

In the first chapter of Romans, the Apostle Paul tells us that we know God exists by creation. But ever since Immanuel Kant’s critique, many have concluded that we can never rationally know God’s existence by considering creation. Was Kant right? Rather than taking the traditional arguments for the existence of God, Dr. Sproul will take another approach in this message as he explains how we can prove God’s existence with one shoe and simple logic.

Or you might enjoy the entire series that The Existence of Shoes comes from (Objections Answered), available online for free right now at: https://www.ligonier.org/learn/series/objections-answered/reason-to-believe/?

~Deut
Thanks. I will certainly check that out
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
4,323
1,527
113
#11
What some people do(and this can apply to anyone, especially defense lawyers) is keep one off guard by bombarding with questions and accusations. This particular individual whom I was having a discourse with kept doing. Again, I don’t mind having these conversations and I’m not deterred into retreat. I’m just doing why the Bible says by giving an account as to why I have the faith I have.
Also discernment is good too because as scripture says we shouldn't give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces. Matthew 7:6.

Sometimes we can determine just by their words and actions that our time isnt worth the interaction. These people are best witnessed by people's actions like a loving neighbor who helps during a tragic life event. Otherwise to try and persuade intellectually, the Bible calls their thinking foolish and to try and persuade a fool who blocks all your evidence and continues to try and use speach shut down tactics to shut you up is a waste of time.

Pray for them and move on to a more fruitful individual. Fastest way to see if they even care is to straight up and ask. "If Christianity was true would you become a Christian?"

If yes then they are possibly willing to hear the evidence.

If no then they dont care either way. They are going to live their way regardless of your evidence.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
14,096
1,329
113
#12
As I find myself in different conversations online, I always come across the atheist that uses a bunch of scientific terminologies and processes to explain how the universe came into being.

I never run away from the challenge. Of course I’m called a “Flat-Earther, snake charmer, friend of an invisible friend, yada, yada.” The interesting thing is they never have a real answer for the obvious “How something come from nothing?”

If you find yourself in a position like that, what would you say from a Biblical or even a scientific standpoint to show them there is a real concept of a God? Would you Genesis? Use quantum physics? Mathematics? The historical evidence for Christ’s death and resurrection? Biology?

Thoughts and opinions?
I would offer.
God, Eternal Spirit is not made up of the rudiments of this world (atoms and molecules) Eternal Spirit cannot be discovered in a lab under a microscope .We as believers walk by faith not by sight.

Not that True Science should not be defended with great organizations like "Back to Genesis". But I would think the meat of the difference is in respect to the things not seen called "faith" the eternal . . It is that (faith) which they are trying to make to no effect using the rudiments of this world.

Like faith is something that could be covered with the rudiments of this world. The out of sight out of mind foundation of Paganism.

Abel's blood cries out from the ground his brother Cain covered him with. It cries out looking to be clothed with the incorruptible promise of the gospel .

They have no faith just the imaginations of a godless heart. . Therefore they have no way to seek after God, no understanding. (Romans 3) No God working in their hard hearts.

Keep planting the seed friend of an invisible friend. There are plenty here to ask for strength in prayer.

You never know which way the lord will use to cause growth if any. . He uses both .The literal in which the eyes see and that which is not seen. . . . called mixing faith. . . in what we see or hear. (Hebrew 4)

As apologist's (Christians) we defend the faith of Christ that defends us . Like in Ephesian 6. Put on as a way of keeping on the whole armor of God. No Armor for the back. He is our rear guard who strengthens the weak and feeble.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
17,124
3,752
113
#13
As I find myself in different conversations online, I always come across the atheist that uses a bunch of scientific terminologies and processes to explain how the universe came into being.

I never run away from the challenge. Of course I’m called a “Flat-Earther, snake charmer, friend of an invisible friend, yada, yada.” The interesting thing is they never have a real answer for the obvious “How something come from nothing?”

If you find yourself in a position like that, what would you say from a Biblical or even a scientific standpoint to show them there is a real concept of a God? Would you Genesis? Use quantum physics? Mathematics? The historical evidence for Christ’s death and resurrection? Biology?

Thoughts and opinions?
My favorite question to these folks is for them to tell me exactly what nothing is… Some of the most clever (as they thought) would say it is the absence of everything but they could not give a reference to what that is. No matter they do not hear.

kKAccording to the great minds of science, even matter is a form of energy, only slowed dow. It is scary when people think everything came from nothing because the mere presence shows all is created and tha by the Only One Wh Creates...the Source of all that is Who is also the Source of what is truly knowledge, understanding and wisdom…

I pray all receive His knowledge, understanding and wisdom so as never to be deceived by the false renditions of this age.

Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
27,072
8,025
113
#14
As I find myself in different conversations online, I always come across the atheist that uses a bunch of scientific terminologies and processes to explain how the universe came into being.

I never run away from the challenge. Of course I’m called a “Flat-Earther, snake charmer, friend of an invisible friend, yada, yada.” The interesting thing is they never have a real answer for the obvious “How something come from nothing?”

If you find yourself in a position like that, what would you say from a Biblical or even a scientific standpoint to show them there is a real concept of a God? Would you Genesis? Use quantum physics? Mathematics? The historical evidence for Christ’s death and resurrection? Biology?

Thoughts and opinions?
you could use a lot of things. like this, for example:

I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.
― Max Planck, often called the 'father of quantum theory'
one of the most amazing implications of quantum theory is that the universe does not exist until it is observed; all matter & energy derive their existence from conscious observation.
a consciousness which observes all things therefore precludes all things.
 

Dave-L

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2020
4,495
683
113
#15
Everyone believes exactly as God wants them to believe. Some for the better and some for the worse. I pity those who believe for the worse and try to reach them offering a biblical worldview. But unless God opens their eyes their fate remains sealed.
 

pottersclay

Senior Member
Aug 13, 2015
3,792
694
113
#16
As I find myself in different conversations online, I always come across the atheist that uses a bunch of scientific terminologies and processes to explain how the universe came into being.

I never run away from the challenge. Of course I’m called a “Flat-Earther, snake charmer, friend of an invisible friend, yada, yada.” The interesting thing is they never have a real answer for the obvious “How something come from nothing?”

If you find yourself in a position like that, what would you say from a Biblical or even a scientific standpoint to show them there is a real concept of a God? Would you Genesis? Use quantum physics? Mathematics? The historical evidence for Christ’s death and resurrection? Biology?

Thoughts and opinions?
To be quite honest with you saint I wouldn't waste my time. These that seek evidence of the existence of God or a answer of creation
Are not seeking truth.
You can talk till your blue in the face and find out it's a endless discussion that leads to nowhere.
I'm sure Jesus could of answered all the questions since he created all things and by him they are held together. But no where is it ever recorded that he ventured into such a conversation.
To me this is a distraction from the truth and even though you might have biblical evidence it will only lead to another question.
You can be a ken ham on all of creation but that doesn't mean you have a relationship with the living God.
Take the example that Jesus left you....he came for the lost, broken, down trodden, sick and poor in spirit.
It is said that if one does not believe in Genesis 1:1 then proceed no further.
The evidence of God is in all of creation if they cannot see what they can see then how can they believe what they cannot see?
 
Nov 27, 2019
68
22
8
#17
I just look at the maple tree and watch it's seeds helicopter their way into new territories on the wind and I see "be fruitful and multiply" and intelligent design. Somehow the atheist see evolution. To each his own!
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#18
The problem is not God and Science but Religion and Science and more specifically, the understanding that comes from Religion.

Science comes up with theories and tries to verify them which is actually a good thing but the only problem with science is that it is materialistic. Religion directly assumes that the understanding one has from the scripture is truth and stubbornly holds on to it.

For example; The bible says in the beginning, God created the heavens and Earth in 6 days and goes ahead to explain how. The bible explains these things poetically but religion takes hold of the literal. Religion says God is an entity seated on one side and creates a universe distinct from Himself (God).

What i have come to realize is that the bible actually teaches a virtual world. All reality is just consciousness and this consciousness comes from God. It is the consciousness in man that creates the universe, IOW, the universe is in man's mind.

The physical world that we see comes from the fall of Adam for it is said, "..their eyes opened and they saw that they were naked..", this doesn't mean that since creation they had their eyes closed but it simply means there was a shift in dimension from spiritual to physical. But now we are required not to go by sight, just understanding.
 

JamOn

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2019
4,096
1,553
113
#19
The mathematical precision which is built into the laws of the universe are sufficient to shown that a Creator is behind His creation. For example, the existence of fractals throughout nature is a very solid proof of a Designer using mathematics to create beautiful and intricate designs in even the most insignificant things.

View attachment 211367

BTW since Atheists are WILFULLY IGNORANT, no amount of proof will change their foolish thinking.
sunflower
83E8C35D-961F-4D3A-96DC-3FB539F7324F.jpeg