God by Any Other Name

[newton3003]

God is God. There is only one God, the maker of the universe and of us; the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

The term “Elohim” is a Hebrew term that has come to refer to God, and it is said to be used often and is referred to in Catholic encyclopedias. It has been brought up that in its literal form the term is plural, implying that whoever coined the term sees God as being at least several gods. It has also been brought up that Jewish scholars sees the term as not being plural at all, rather, it is a homonym that refers to God as we understand God to be: a single deity from which all divine influence extends.

In any event, the fact that the term first appears in the Hebrew Bible establishes it as appearing before Jesus and therefore before the concept of a Trinity.

If you want to hold Elohim as being plural, then how do you do it so as not to offend God, who in the first commandment says HE is the Lord thy God? We would have to give it a different meaning.

It might be more appropriate to consider Elohim, outside of the Hebrew Bible, as being not only God but also anyone who is an extension of Him. Elohim could also be used to refer to the Trinity. That would give it a meaning apart from what it is understood to be in the Hebrew Bible. Probably safe to say, then, that Elohim in the Old Testament refers to God alone, whereas Elohim in the New testament may be used to refer to the Trinity, with the understanding that the Son and the Holy Ghost are an extension of God.

Is God concerned with what we refer to Him as? As proverbs 3:5 implies, it is not for us to try to understand Him. We only have Timothy 3:16 which says all Scripture is breathed out by God, so in the Hebrew Bible we must accept that God himself uses the term Elohim. And since there is only one God, perhaps the Jewish scholars were right in saying that the term used in the Bible is not the literal term but rather one that is worded similarly to the term that has an entirely different meaning.

 

[JaumeJ]

El is singular
Elohim is plural
Jesus said on the cross, Eli, and with this suffix, i, it is the first person singular possessive.
Elohanue, has the suffix for the first person plural possessive.
No man "coined the term, it was the language of the time before and present of Abram

Scholars may twist it any way they wish, but the grammar rules are know and the application is squite obvious.

Elohim said, come let us make man in our image………..He is not sepaking of flesh, He is speaking of the soul.

If you wish to beleive otherwise that is your prerogative but all too many men of the Holy Spirit know this by the Spirit, not by science of a universe bound to decay…….that science goes when it goes for it is temporal, not eternal.

 

[newton3003]

No man "coined the term, it was the language of the time before and present of Abram

***So which “Elohim” are you referring to: The homonym or the literal word that denotes a plural existence? If the latter, then the “language” was misused. I guess literacy may have been as much a problem in those days as it is now.

Seems to me it would be less criticizing to those who use it, to imply the term was coined.

 

[p_rehbein]

Why is it so important for some to strive to discredit the Holy Trinity? Have they never read the Gospel of John?

Now, I understand those who still practice the Jewish Religion wanting to, because they have denied Christ as the Promised Messiah, and they surely can not recognize Him now can they?

But for professing Christians to want to puzzles me. Now, every person has the God given right to believe or not believe in the Holy Trinity...........it's called Free Will.........but it puzzles me as to why?

 

[newton3003]

Why is it so important for some to strive to discredit the Holy Trinity? Have they never read the Gospel of John?

Now, I understand those who still practice the Jewish Religion wanting to, because they have denied Christ as the Promised Messiah, and they surely can not recognize Him now can they?

But for professing Christians to want to puzzles me. Now, every person has the God given right to believe or not believe in the Holy Trinity...........it's called Free Will.........but it puzzles me as to why?

***What does all that have to do with the term "Elohim"?

But you raise an interesting topic: Is it sacrilege for Jews to discredit the Holy Trinity, or is it merely a result of their belief which existed before Jesus?

Jews and Christians each have their own path to God. You can't discredit the way Jews believe in God, since, contrary to people like the Philistines and Persians, and empires like Rome, Jews are still around after 4,000 years. God must feel the Jews are doing something right, as are Christians.

 

[JaumeJ]

I do not know about how you derive a homonym when a homonym is the occurance of a word that sounds exactly like another word by is spelled differently on most occasion like one and won...….. Perhaps you could rephrase…….

Also, as my colleague and brother has stated, the Hebrew name beingplural for god is right in line with the prophets especially Isaiah 9:6 were we learn in plan words that Jesus is also know as the everlasting Father, the God Almighty, the Ruler of Peace (Yeshua) and the HOly Spirit.. YOu must not become bogged down in intellectualism, fr Yahweh does not recognize such.

 

[newton3003]

a homonym is the occurance of a word that sounds exactly like another word by is spelled differently on most occasion like one and won

***It sure is.

 

[lukeabers]

***What does all that have to do with the term "Elohim"?

But you raise an interesting topic: Is it sacrilege for Jews to discredit the Holy Trinity, or is it merely a result of their belief which existed before Jesus?

Jews and Christians each have their own path to God. You can't discredit the way Jews believe in God, since, contrary to people like the Philistines and Persians, and empires like Rome, Jews are still around after 4,000 years. God must feel the Jews are doing something right, as are Christians.

Actually, it is more likely that the Jews have been doing so much wrong, is why they are so successful. Yes, yes, countries that support Israel are blessed...yea, how about when Manasseh was king? Still worth getting that blessing with hands stained with the blood of children? The Israelis are committing egregious acts that are being overlooked because they are fighting violent terrorists...but, that still does not make it right. Remember, the first satanic cult would have to have been started by the first to turn against God...and that evil has been brought from 4,000 years, across time, right into the modern world...just wonderful, isn't it?

 

[newton3003]

Actually, it is more likely that the Jews have been doing so much wrong, is why they are so successful.

***Really? Have they done more wrong than, say, Hitler? Where is Hitler's Reich these days?

Oh, wait...perhaps people like you, in believing the Jews "have been doing so much wrong," feel that Hitler did humanity a great service by exterminating six million of them?

 

[JaumeJ]

We must pray for Israel always, and for Jerusalem.

Ahh, but we pray for the Israel of God, not the staging area on earth.

We pray and bless the New Jerusalem to come down from God for it is the free....

 

[lukeabers]

***Really? Have they done more wrong than, say, Hitler? Where is Hitler's Reich these days?

Oh, wait...perhaps people like you, in believing the Jews "have been doing so much wrong," feel that Hitler did humanity a great service by exterminating six million of them?

Actually, the charge to exterminate the jews was led by the very jews I am referring to. But then, you would know that if you spent more time reading and listening instead of jumping to conclusions based upon your latest media feed.

 

[JaumeJ]

In the 1950's right after the war in in the cold war, it was always reported that the death camps exterminated six million people. At that time it was two million Jews and the rest assorted targets of the Nazi regime. Gypsies, gays, crippled, aged, poor, and others..

One Jew "exterminateed" is over the limit in my esteem, but I just be truthful to what I know.

Once someone said that here in Spain over twenty million Jews were killed during the Spaish Inquisition. There were hardly ten million people in what was then Spain and Portugal combined……………..people should stop the revisions now.

 

[lukeabers]

In the 1950's right after the war in in the cold war, it was always reported that the death camps exterminated six million people. At that time it was two million Jews and the rest assorted targets of the Nazi regime. Gypsies, gays, crippled, aged, poor, and others..

One Jew "exterminateed" is over the limit in my esteem, but I just be truthful to what I know.

Once someone said that here in Spain over twenty million Jews were killed during the Spaish Inquisition. There were hardly ten million people in what was then Spain and Portugal combined……………..people should stop the revisions now.

Yea, most people think the inquisition and crusades were much worse than they were...though they were terrible. The 20th century, however, takes the cake in every regard. Depravity mass produced, mankind at its worst....until, of course, we get even worse as we near the depravity seen in the time of Noah.

 

[JaumeJ]

Yea, most people think the inquisition and crusades were much worse than they were...though they were terrible. The 20th century, however, takes the cake in every regard. Depravity mass produced, mankind at its worst....until, of course, we get even worse as we near the depravity seen in the time of Noah.

If you think those times were bad, wait a while…..(I know you know,) God bless you.

 

[newton3003]

Actually, the charge to exterminate the jews was led by the very jews I am referring to. But then, you would know that if you spent more time reading and listening instead of jumping to conclusions based upon your latest media feed.

***Do you mean that Hitler's exterminating the Jews was in response to requests made by certain Jews? Or do you believe Hitler's exterminating the Jews was a figment of the media's imagination? Do you believe the Holocaust denials?

 

[lukeabers]

***Do you mean that Hitler's exterminating the Jews was in response to requests made by certain Jews? Or do you believe Hitler's exterminating the Jews was a figment of the media's imagination? Do you believe the Holocaust denials?

I lost family to the Holocaust and know plenty of others that did as well. Reread my posts with that knowledge in mind.

 

[NayborBear]

God is God. There is only one God, the maker of the universe and of us; the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

The term “Elohim” is a Hebrew term that has come to refer to God, and it is said to be used often and is referred to in Catholic encyclopedias. It has been brought up that in its literal form the term is plural, implying that whoever coined the term sees God as being at least several gods. It has also been brought up that Jewish scholars sees the term as not being plural at all, rather, it is a homonym that refers to God as we understand God to be: a single deity from which all divine influence extends.

In any event, the fact that the term first appears in the Hebrew Bible establishes it as appearing before Jesus and therefore before the concept of a Trinity.

If you want to hold Elohim as being plural, then how do you do it so as not to offend God, who in the first commandment says HE is the Lord thy God? We would have to give it a different meaning.

It might be more appropriate to consider Elohim, outside of the Hebrew Bible, as being not only God but also anyone who is an extension of Him. Elohim could also be used to refer to the Trinity. That would give it a meaning apart from what it is understood to be in the Hebrew Bible. Probably safe to say, then, that Elohim in the Old Testament refers to God alone, whereas Elohim in the New testament may be used to refer to the Trinity, with the understanding that the Son and the Holy Ghost are an extension of God.

Is God concerned with what we refer to Him as? As proverbs 3:5 implies, it is not for us to try to understand Him. We only have Timothy 3:16 which says all Scripture is breathed out by God, so in the Hebrew Bible we must accept that God himself uses the term Elohim. And since there is only one God, perhaps the Jewish scholars were right in saying that the term used in the Bible is not the literal term but rather one that is worded similarly to the term that has an entirely different meaning.

To understand? You would have to UNDERSTAND the "governmental structure (temple)", that resides "ON (note!...Not IN ) the shoulders OF" Jesus Christ!

 

[NayborBear]

Actually, it is more likely that the Jews have been doing so much wrong, is why they are so successful. Yes, yes, countries that support Israel are blessed...yea, how about when Manasseh was king? Still worth getting that blessing with hands stained with the blood of children? The Israelis are committing egregious acts that are being overlooked because they are fighting violent terrorists...but, that still does not make it right. Remember, the first satanic cult would have to have been started by the first to turn against God...and that evil has been brought from 4,000 years, across time, right into the modern world...just wonderful, isn't it?

".but, that still does not make it right."

In whose "eyes", is it not right?

If you believe that God IS? You must believe that God is ALSO "SOVEREIGN!"

If not? Then, you should curse God, for EVERY act He performs! Which sounds pretty much like what you are doing, eh?

 

[lukeabers]

".but, that still does not make it right."

In whose "eyes", is it not right?

If you believe that God IS? You must believe that God is ALSO "SOVEREIGN!"

If not? Then, you should curse God, for EVERY act He performs! Which sounds pretty much like what you are doing, eh?

Lol...you must have me confused with someone else, Quixote.

I would never curse God...at least not for long without apologizing. And, I do not say that lightly. I have spent a considerable amount of time determining whether or not God was worth following. Once you find that God exists, that isn't enough, you have to believe that God actually loves you...is desiring the best for you...otherwise, the relationship just does not work.

I could follow man (myself included)...man is faulty, inept, lazy, greedy...fallen. Not the best choice for top dog. I could follow satan, destroy all that I can in my meager lifetime...but, really, what is the point in that? Might as well serve myself if failure is to be the goal. So, indeed, I am left believing in God because, He is the best game in town. It gets deeper than that but good enough for a quick post.

 

[p_rehbein]

***What does all that have to do with the term "Elohim"?

But you raise an interesting topic: Is it sacrilege for Jews to discredit the Holy Trinity, or is it merely a result of their belief which existed before Jesus?

Jews and Christians each have their own path to God. You can't discredit the way Jews believe in God, since, contrary to people like the Philistines and Persians, and empires like Rome, Jews are still around after 4,000 years. God must feel the Jews are doing something right, as are Christians.

There is only ONE PATH to God in my opinion........oh, wait, and in His opinion

John 14:6) Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

7) If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

As for the other, the first several comments read as if the debate is about God being just one person, or three persons in one.......well, to me anyhow........

As for the Jews who still hold to their Religion from the First Covenant, it is an interesting subject to discuss, but too many folks get far too upset sometimes during such discussions.

Still, Christ Himself made it abundantly clear as to how many paths lead to heaven/eternal life.

Well, in my opinion only.........others are free to believe as they feel led to believe.......it is their God given right.