God has future animal sacrifices planned

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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
155
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#1
this subject is a popular one, apparently.

the notion is unacceptable to some; acceptable to others.

the idea is not verboten.

so - i was looking forward to being shown that God has future animal sacrifices planned (in which He will apparently even take pleasure).

this thread is open to derailments of all kinds; fanciful ideas with no documentation, and endless reams of OT prophecies wrenched from context.

we could discuss Jesus Christ's suffering on the Cross if needed. not sure it's relevant, but if so, maybe we could see how He fits in.

OKAY...LET THE GAMES BEGIN.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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#2
here we have an article by Mike Blume; as he examines Thomas Ice's assertions there will indeed be Animal Sacrifices in a future Millennial age.

The Heresy of Literal Animal Sacrifices In a Millennium
Mike Blume
Heresy of Literal Animal Sacrifices in a Millennium

and here at Rapture Ready, we have Mr. Ice himself:

Literal Sacrifices In The Millennium
by Thomas Ice
The Thomas Ice Collection

so there's some background.

i'll post some more.
 
Nov 18, 2013
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#3
Don't dispies produce enough garbage without having others do it on their behalf?
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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#4
here's Hank Hanegraaf saying no way, the types and shadows were fulfilled in and by Jesus Christ:

Seeing Old Testament the Shadows of Temples, Sacrifices, and Diets Fulfilled in the Light of Christ

In Christ the Old Covenant order, including temple sacrifices are obsolete. They disappeared in the light of Jesus Christ. The type and shadow of the first and second temples, they don’t find their substance in some kind of Tribulation temple followed by another temple—a Millennial temple. They find their substance in a church built of living stones comprised of both Jew and Gentile with Jesus Christ Himself the capstone. Jesus made this typological relation to the temple when He said “one greater than the temple is here.” All Old Covenant types and shadows, including the Holy Land, the Holy City, and the Holy Temple have been fulfilled in the Holy Christ. There is no need or use for a rebuilt temple with reinstituted temple sacrifices. There is no need to go back to type and shadow.


The teaching that the temple must be rebuilt and that temple sacrifices must be reinstituted not only stands in direct opposition to the Book of Hebrews but it undermines the central hope of the Christian faith, which of course is the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ for all sins—past, present, and future. If our evangelical death march towards the endgame of Armageddon is to be subverted it will be because believers recommit themselves to faithful exegesis to mining what the Holy Spirit has breathed into the text as opposed to superimposing our models onto the text.

Hank Hanegraaff


but that's too much spiritualizing, isn't it?
i'll find a literal interpreter.
we need literal blood sacrifices in the future....it's inescapable.

ezekiel's temple is a literal temple.
it has to fit somewhere.
 

OneJack

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2013
174
0
0
#5
this subject is a popular one, apparently.

the notion is unacceptable to some; acceptable to others.

the idea is not verboten.

so - i was looking forward to being shown that God has future animal sacrifices planned (in which He will apparently even take pleasure).

this thread is open to derailments of all kinds; fanciful ideas with no documentation, and endless reams of OT prophecies wrenched from context.

we could discuss Jesus Christ's suffering on the Cross if needed. not sure it's relevant, but if so, maybe we could see how He fits in.

OKAY...LET THE GAMES BEGIN.
May the Lord God be with you with your game, God bless you even more for that.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
155
63
#6
Don't dispies produce enough garbage without having others do it on their behalf?
well, this subject is apparently open for consideration.
it's not considered garbage.

rather than just have it posted here and there (as the logical conclusion of dispensationalism...which is apparently the God-given hermeneutic) on a million different threads....i thought it might be a good idea to start at the (almost) END of the dispensational system and work from there.

i don't yet know if that system (a new unknown dispensation that isn't quite Moses and certainly isn't CHRIST-CENTERED), where animals blood is the focus of God's attention is inferred to carry on throughout eternity....i don't see why not, since it is coming around once again, in our future....apparently.

so if i need a theological tune-up, i guess i'll start in the Millennium and work back from there.

anyway - animal sacrifices....in our future. in spite of The Cross.

here we go.......
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
155
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#7
May the Lord God be with you with your game, God bless you even more for that.
hey - you speak directly to God right? or He visits and speaks to you.

could you ask Him if He has future animal sacrifices planned?

i can't really find it in the Bible, and so i guess a direct conversation would clear that up.
thanks.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
155
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#8
hmmm....then there's the matter of this notion being involved in real literal action - taken by all sorts of people:

Christians Who Support Temple Mount Terrorists

While Christians demand (and rightly so) that Muslims stop their financial support of terrorists, some Christians are giving generous financial support to Jewish terrorists who are plotting to blow up the Mosque of Omar in Jerusalem so that a Jewish Temple can be built there, to "fulfill prophecy."

Christian Zionist leader Terry Reisenhoover of the Jerusalem Temple Foundation explained, in an interview with journalist Grace Halsell, that he was raising money from American Christians, to be used by Stanley Goldfoot to blow up the mosque in Jerusalem. "He’s a very solid, legitimate terrorist," Reisenhoover said of Goldfoot. "He has the qualifications for clearing a site for the temple." Reisenhoover stated that Goldfoot does not believe in God, but this atheistic conviction did not hinder Goldfoot from making a fund-raising appearance at Chuck Smith’s Calvary Chapel in Costa Mesa, California.

Temple in Jerusalem With Animal Sacrifices - Next Event on Prophetic Calendar?
 

OneJack

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2013
174
0
0
#9
hey - you speak directly to God right? or He visits and speaks to you.
could you ask Him if He has future animal sacrifices planned?
i can't really find it in the Bible, and so i guess a direct conversation would clear that up.
thanks.
God is just right beside you, sitting next to you, all it takes is just for you to learn to talk to Him so that He may talk to you in return, don't let laziness brings you to Jupiter.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
155
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#10
here's something from a millennial-literalist, who says:

ANIMAL SACRIFICES DURING THE MILLENNIUM

Question: When the grammatical/historical method of interpreting the Bible is employed, we find that God has a future plan for Israel which involves the Millennial Temple. As we read Ezekiel chapters 40-48 we read of this temple, and also of animal sacrifices in the Millennial Temple. This has been problematic for some. They claim that after the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, there is no need for animal sacrifices.

Answer: Those who argue against the animal sacrifices in the Millennial Temple because of the completed sacrifice of Christ are guilty of faulty reasoning.

Southwest Radio Ministries: Bible FAQs: Animal Sacrifices During the Millennium

.....


okay GUILTY OF faulty reasoning:confused:....hopefully this person can show me how to reason through this: i don't want to be GUILTY OF THAT. if Jesus' death and suffering was just a SIDE SHOW, i need to make sure i believe that instead.


....

Answer: Those who argue against the animal sacrifices in the Millennial Temple because of the completed sacrifice of Christ are guilty of faulty reasoning. They reason that, prior to the death of Christ, the animal sacrifices were the means that God had appointed for the taking away sin. Consequently, the death of Christ removed the need for animal sacrifices.

However, animal sacrifices never took away sin. Hebrews 10, verse 4 states: "For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins." A few verses later, in verse 11 we read: "And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins."

The animal sacrifices have a different purpose than the once-and-for all death of Christ. The significance of the death of Christ is not minimized by the animal sacrifices in the Millennial Temple, because such sacrifices are not intended to take away sin.

The animal sacrifices were, and will be, tests of obedience as well as a way of maintaining fellowship with God for the Jew, and Gentile proselytes, living in the Kingdom Age. The death of Christ does not do away with all ritual. The death of Christ has not done away with the Lord’s Supper. That’s a ritual. The death of Christ has not done away with going to church. We are to regularly gather with the people of God. These animal sacrifices are ritual—another kind of ritual—but ritual nevertheless. And there is still a place and function for ritual.


...


"They reason that, prior to the death of Christ, the animal sacrifices were the means that God had appointed for the taking away sin."

tsk....who reasons that? i wonder where they got that from?

"The animal sacrifices were, and will be, tests of obedience as well as a way of maintaining fellowship with God for the Jew, and Gentile proselytes, living in the Kingdom Age."

oooooooh.....okay. animal sacrifices won't be for SIN (even though ezekiel says they ARE)....they will be for: "a way of maintaining fellowship with God for the Jew, and Gentile proselytes, living in the Kingdom Age.""


.....

so:

ANIMAL SACRIFICES IN THE FUTURE MILLENNIAL AGE WILL BE FOR:

1) tests of obedience
2) a way of maintaining fellowship with God for the Jew, and Gentile proselytes, living in the Kingdom Age.


.....


In the Millennial Kingdom, the Lord Jesus Christ will rule with a rod of iron. The New Covenant theocracy promised by God will retain its distinctive Jewish features. After all, the Millennial Kingdom is about Israel. There is a promised land in which Israel dwells in peace and security. The Millennial Age is not the Church Age. We shouldn’t seek to understand its features in terms of the Church Age. During the Millennium, the Church Age is no more. Even though outward submission to these outward ceremonies and rituals will not be proof of a new heart, such ceremonies will exhibit a spirit of submission to the government of the Millennial King, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Question: Do you think the Millennial sacrifices will serve any purpose in relation to the Gentile proselytes of the Kingdom Age?

Answer: I think they will. The presence of the sin nature will require constant exhortation and instruction regarding the worship of the true and living God. And in the Millennial Age this will be facilitated by the Temple sacrifices.


....


well:confused: wait a second. i know my reasoning is faulty, but this doesn't really add up:

1) After all, the Millennial Kingdom is about Israel

but didn't they just say animal sacrifices will be:

2) a way of maintaining fellowship with God for the Jew, and Gentile proselytes, living in the Kingdom Age.?

....

see. i'm still having a problem with this.
if the Millennial Age is about Israel....who for some reason has promises that weren't fulfilled (i don't know what those are yet)....we have to reverse everything for 1,000 years and rebuild a temple for Jesus to actually sit in....so Israel can slaughter animals; as a test of obedience, and as a way of maintaining fellowship with God.....but they are NOT FOR SIN?

well, then when and how are the SINS OF ISRAEL in the Millennial Age forgiven?

are they?

maybe someone can explain it better.
maybe i need more coffee.
i'm determined to get to the bottom of this.

it has to do with gaps.
so far i have counted 5 gaps, and none of them line up.
but - i have determined to sort it out.

i thought JESUS CHRIST was the last sacrifice for sin or anything else.
but maybe NOT.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
155
63
#11
God is just right beside you, sitting next to you, all it takes is just for you to learn to talk to Him so that He may talk to you in return, don't let laziness brings you to Jupiter.

lol...well, this thread is indeed open for all kinds of derailments.

...

but - would you mind asking Him?
please? that would be helpful.

post here when He gives you the answer.

thanks very much.
prophets are helpful.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
155
63
#12
does this pretty well summarize the teaching of Millennial animal sacrifices?

.....

In the Millennial Kingdom, the Lord Jesus Christ will rule with a rod of iron. The New Covenant theocracy promised by God will retain its distinctive Jewish features. After all, the Millennial Kingdom is about Israel. There is a promised land in which Israel dwells in peace and security. The Millennial Age is not the Church Age. We shouldn’t seek to understand its features in terms of the Church Age. During the Millennium, the Church Age is no more. Even though outward submission to these outward ceremonies and rituals will not be proof of a new heart, such ceremonies will exhibit a spirit of submission to the government of the Millennial King, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Southwest Radio Ministries: Bible FAQs: Animal Sacrifices During the Millennium

.....


trying to adjust my faulty reasoning. i don't want to be guilty of that.

SO:


The Millennial Age is not the Church Age. - OKAY
We shouldn’t seek to understand its features in terms of the Church Age. - ALRIGHT
During the Millennium, the Church Age is no more. - OKAY
Even though outward submission to these outward ceremonies and rituals will not be proof of a new heart - RIGHT
such ceremonies will exhibit a spirit of submission to the government of the Millennial King, the Lord Jesus Christ - OH.


but it all fails in the end apparently.
a temple; theocracy; animals slaughtered by unregenerate people; Israel dwelling in peace and safety....then a huge rebellion at the end.

even though Jesus is ruling with a rod of iron, it goes sideways.

alright.

so the animal sacrifices won't really work out.
fellowship with God is maintained through them, but it doesn't work.

....

"The animal sacrifices were, and will be, tests of obedience as well as a way of maintaining fellowship with God for the Jew, and Gentile proselytes, living in the Kingdom Age."

tsk...what's a Gentile proselyte in the Kingdom Age?
are we going to Judaism in the Millennium?

maybe we should convert NOW (??)
why didn't Jesus tell us to get ready to convert to Judaism (some weird new kind)?

maybe it is another Mystery that's hidden until it happens?

"The Millennial Age is not the Church Age. We shouldn’t seek to understand its features in terms of the Church Age. During the Millennium, the Church Age is no more."

"We shouldn’t seek to understand its features in terms of the Church Age." - OKAY. i guess that DISPENSATION is a special one that has nothing to do with Jesus, really.

dunno....working on it.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
155
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#13
here's another seeker confused by faulty reasoning.
in this case, the answer this is NO...no future animal sacrifices:

The Question:

Jesus' death on the cross was the final sacrifice for the remission of sins. We are taught that in the future the lion and the lamb shall graze together in the millennial kingdom. This is after we have been freed from the 'yoke' of Old Testament bondage.

So how is it there will be animal sacrifices in the millennial Kingdom?

Won't this annul the above three truths?



UK Apologetics Reply:

I largely agree with you but you are assuming that I too teach a "millenial kingdom," and that I teach that animal sacrifices will return. I certainly teach neither. The teaching, in my opinion, is a result of misapplying certain verses, mainly in Ezekiel, so I will point you to an article on that.

Christ was and is the final, and complete, sacrifice - no further sacrifice is necessary. Moreover, the Great Commision sends us into the world to preach the gospel - not to teach people how to sacrifice animals! Some millenialists, however, teach that there will be many thousands of unconverted people still upon this earth during a literal 1,000 year "millenium" (not a biblical word), who will bring animal sacrifices to a new priesthood (although Jesus plainly abolished that), this - in my honestly held view - is due to a lack of understanding when reading Revelation 20, to say nothing of Ezekiel.

.....


there's that lack of understanding again.
somebody's reasoning is faulty.
i wonder whose?

.....


These people believe that those people (that is, the unconverted who live on into God's kingdom) must - initially at least - be taught along the lines of the old covenant - Paul the Apostle would turn in his grave!! The teaching is that both the saved and the unconverted will live side-by-side. This view, while often held by sincere people, is scripturally erroneous. It finds virtually no support in the writings of Paul, for example; Paul obviously saw no gap between the Second Coming, the resurrection and the restoration of all things (see 2 Thessalonians 1:6-10, for example). Neither did Matthew (see Matthew 25:31-46), or John, or Peter (see 2 Peter 3:7-12). Paul also taught that "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Corinthians 15:50), but the proposed millenium upon earth schema has a real 'kingdom of God' in which the unconverted also live.

Put this together with the fact that such a future earthly kingdom was a Jewish belief which Jesus clearly refused to buy into (Acts 1:6-9), and the fact that 'a thousand' is only ever a poetic/symbolic phrase in Scripture - never literal, and the problems become all too obvious. The church fathers (with just one or two exceptions), and all the great Christian expositors all saw the '1,000 years' as a symbolic phrase in a symbolic book which refers to the age of the Church upon earth.


.....


OH....a future earthly kingdom was a Jewish belief.
well maybe it is the correct interpretation, since we seem to be moving toward certain things - Judaism; Two Covenants underway; terrible awful Replacement Theology defined; a temple; animal sacrifices; Gentile proselytes, living in the Kingdom Age."


....


this is hard.
Gentile proselytes, living in the Kingdom Age hmmm....:confused:


....


The 'literal millenium' teaching only really took off with the writings of people like Edward Irvine, John Nelson Darby, William Miller, Cyrus Scofield and a few others in the 19th century; in that century the cults and sects really embraced the theory. It was only through the influence of Cyrus Scofield in the United States that the belief really took off among certain American fundamentalist Christians. Today most U.S. teachers/evangelists embrace some sort of variation of millenial theory (there exist numerous and often confusing variations). Outside north America, it remains the case that most Christians either don't accept the theory, or feel it is an unnecessary add-on.

The Scofield Reference Bible first appeared in the States in 1909. Scofield was a sincere man but he was a lawyer who was substantially untrained in biblical exegesis. The book isn't all bad by any means but it lamentably introduced errors such as 'the gap theory,' and the millenial teaching was strong. American baptists, especially, embraced this 'dispensationalism.'

Another form of 'people must firstly be taught to embrace the old covenant' came from the reconstructionists and theonomy, Greg Bahnsen being a leading teacher. This is somewhat different because it is not 'millenial,' but is what is sometimes termed, 'post-millennialism' (Christians must convert the world before Christ can return and before a 'millenium' can start). This idea grew among a very legalistic branch of Presbyterianism for a while but has now lost a lot of ground.

So, in answer to the question, 'will animal sacrifices return in the future?' I would say no, nothing in Scripture would require such a thing.

Robin A. Brace. October 24th, 2012.

Will Animal Sacrifices Return in the Future?


....


well blaming this on "Edward Irvine, John Nelson Darby, William Miller, Cyrus Scofield and a few others in the 19th century" isn't really fair.

the bible clearly says :

Re: God has future animal sacrifices planned

doesn't it?
in fact, He is going to take PLEASURE in them.

....

okay....this is all new to me (not) - so working back from the Millennium (a temple; animal sacrifices; Gentile proselytes, living in the Kingdom Age, etc).....or forward from there to presumable eternity....

...maybe the next question is, are animal sacrifices continuing into eternity.

i see no reason why not if they are a pleasure to God in the coming Kingdom on this earth.


for those who say the Mystery Gentile Church Age Gap Group will be hovering over Old Jerusalem - QUESTION: will there be animal sacrifices in New Jerusalem where you are?

if not - why not?
 
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Hoffco

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2013
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#14
Starting with what I know as fact: The Millenial rule of Christ is a sure thing. The building of a new temple on the Temple Mount for the Jews to use is a sure thing. The offering of animals in the 70th week of Daniel is a sure thing. The rapture of the Church at the mid point of the 70th wk. of Daniel is a sure thing for me. God's punishment of the Jews for doing animal sacrifices again is a sure thing. A new Millenial temple for worship is a sure thing; BUT I do not think Jesus will allow animal sacrifices in the Millenium. I know the nations will come to Jerusal;em to keep the feast of Tabernacles, I don't think animal sacrifices will be needed for that feast. All for now, Love to all, Hoffco
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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#15
Starting with what I know as fact: The Millenial rule of Christ is a sure thing.
okay....so you know this as fact.

The building of a new temple on the Temple Mount for the Jews to use is a sure thing.
as in...it's said in the Bible to happen? or just that they seem to be working towards it?

The offering of animals in the 70th week of Daniel is a sure thing.
OKAY....let's see...here's Daniel in Babylon (the captivity before they were released to go back to Israel and rebuild the city and the temple, and then Jesus was born; lived under The Law; taught; suffered; died for Israel and the world; and rose from the dead; ascended and received all authority in heaven and on earth; ; the Holy Spirit came; the gospel went out to the world from Jerusalem; then the Great Harlot (apostate) Jerusalem (those who refused Jesus) was leveled by prince Titus and the Romans):

Daniel 9
Daniel's Prayer for his People

1In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of the seed of the Medes, which was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans; 2In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem. 3And I set my face unto the Lord God, to seek by prayer and supplications, with fasting, and sackcloth, and ashes: 4And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments; 5We have sinned, and have committed iniquity, and have done wickedly, and have rebelled, even by departing from thy precepts and from thy judgments: 6Neither have we hearkened unto thy servants the prophets, which spake in thy name to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, and to all the people of the land.

7O Lord, righteousness belongeth unto thee, but unto us confusion of faces, as at this day; to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and unto all Israel, that are near, and that are far off, through all the countries whither thou hast driven them, because of their trespass that they have trespassed against thee. 8O Lord, to us belongeth confusion of face, to our kings, to our princes, and to our fathers, because we have sinned against thee. 9To the Lord our God belong mercies and forgivenesses, though we have rebelled against him; 10Neither have we obeyed the voice of the LORD our God, to walk in his laws, which he set before us by his servants the prophets. 11Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him. 12And he hath confirmed his words, which he spake against us, and against our judges that judged us, by bringing upon us a great evil: for under the whole heaven hath not been done as hath been done upon Jerusalem. 13As it is written in the law of Moses, all this evil is come upon us: yet made we not our prayer before the LORD our God, that we might turn from our iniquities, and understand thy truth. 14Therefore hath the LORD watched upon the evil, and brought it upon us: for the LORD our God is righteous in all his works which he doeth: for we obeyed not his voice.

15And now, O Lord our God, that hast brought thy people forth out of the land of Egypt with a mighty hand, and hast gotten thee renown, as at this day; we have sinned, we have done wickedly. 16O Lord, according to all thy righteousness, I beseech thee, let thine anger and thy fury be turned away from thy city Jerusalem, thy holy mountain: because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and thy people are become a reproach to all that are about us. 17Now therefore, O our God, hear the prayer of thy servant, and his supplications, and cause thy face to shine upon thy sanctuary that is desolate, for the Lord's sake. 18O my God, incline thine ear, and hear; open thine eyes, and behold our desolations, and the city which is called by thy name: for we do not present our supplications before thee for our righteousnesses, but for thy great mercies. 19O Lord, hear; O Lord, forgive; O Lord, hearken and do; defer not, for thine own sake, O my God: for thy city and thy people are called by thy name.

Gabriel's Prophecy of the Seventy Weeks
20And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God; 21Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation. 22And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding. 23At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

so : "and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease"

i reckon sacrifice is mentioned in Daniel 9.
but that 70th week is apparently future to us - CHECK.

which means:

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

none of that was accomplished.
we're still waiting....nobody (certainly no one from Israel) has been saved for 2000 years because the CLOCK STOPPED.
OKAY...i see where my reasoning has been faulty.

i thought 70 weeks was 70 weeks.
literally 490 years to the coming of Jesus and all those things listed - and after the 70 weeks then the city would be destroyed.
but apparently NOT.

alrighty - the 70th week lies in my future.

The rapture of the Church at the mid point of the 70th wk. of Daniel
WHOA.....okay....the rapture.
i haven't believed it before now, but you say it is fact.
and it does makes sense if this Age is The Mystery Parenthesis Gap Age that isn't connected to anything else.

The rapture of the Church at the mid point of the 70th wk. of Daniel
???

i missed that in Daniel. here is the last part...where is the rapture in Daniel?
(this is tough going, but i know it's supposed to be extremely complicated and unknown):

24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

where's the rapture in that?

God's punishment of the Jews for doing animal sacrifices again is a sure thing.
hmmm......well, i thought God wanted animal sacrifices?

A new Millenial temple for worship is a sure thing; BUT I do not think Jesus will allow animal sacrifices in the Millenium. I know the nations will come to Jerusal;em to keep the feast of Tabernacles, I don't think animal sacrifices will be needed for that feast.
okay - you say no animal sacrifices, but a Millennial Age with a Temple.

is that Millennial Temple eventually destroyed (at the end of the millennium)?
 
Jul 27, 2011
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#16
a look at Isaiah 11:6-9, tells us what Gods Kingdom is like. i don't think animal sacrifices will be happening.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
155
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#17
and, from another thread, we have this explanation:

Another has said this.

Many who take a literal interpretation of these sacrifices also believe that they will
serve as a memorial to Christ’s once-for-all atoning work. Yet, critics believe this to be a
flawed conclusion. Support for a future memorial aspect can be seen in the fact that our
current observation of the Lord’s Supper includes this aspect (1 Cor. 11:23-26). Under
the Mosaic system—which looked ahead—many times various Temple sacrifices are
specifically called “memorials” (Ex. 30:16; Lev. 2:2, 9; 5:12; 6:15; 24:7; Num. 5:15, 18, 26).
Such terminology could in fact be the basis for our current church age understanding of
remembering the Lord’s death adopted by Paul. The Mosaic memorial aspect clearly
supports viewing future Temple sacrifices in this way, as millennial believers look back
upon Christ's sacrificial provision.

CONCLUSION
The presence and purpose of millennial sacrifices neither diminish the finished work
of Christ, nor violates the literal interpretation of these prophetic passages. Nothing in
Ezekiel 40—48 conflicts with the death of Christ or New Testament teaching at any
point. The supposed contradictions between a literal understanding of Ezekiel and
New Testament doctrine evaporate when examined specifically and harmonized.
Although there will be millennial sacrifices, the focus of all worship will remain on the
person and work of the Savior. The millennial Temple and its ritual will serve as a daily
reminder of fallen man’s need before a Holy God and lessons about how this same God
lovingly works to remove the obstacle of human sin for those who trust Him.
Maranatha!

so really, the real danger is "violating the literal interpretation" of those prophetic passages (8 verses from Ezekiel):

The presence and purpose of millennial sacrifices neither diminish the finished work
of Christ, nor violates the literal interpretation of these prophetic passages. Nothing in
Ezekiel 40—48 conflicts with the death of Christ or New Testament teaching at any
point.

animal sacrifices in a Millennial theocracy with a Temple under a new form Judaism is okay.
violating a literal interpretation of an OT passage is not okay.

okay - i think i see how it works.

BUT:
maybe this needs to be looked at.
if this is a true statement, i guess we're on safe ground claiming God is looking forward with pleasure to animal sacrifices:

"Nothing in Ezekiel 40—48 conflicts with the death of Christ or New Testament teaching at any point." - is this a true statement?

i don't know - this is supposed to be impossibly difficult, because God forbid we violate the literal dispensationalist interpretation of anything (except Daniel's 70th week - that we can violate and trample all we want).
 
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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
155
63
#18
a look at Isaiah 11:6-9, tells us what Gods Kingdom is like. i don't think animal sacrifices will be happening.
Isaiah 11
The Root of Jesse

5Also righteousness will be the belt about His loins, And faithfulness the belt about His waist. 6And the wolf will dwell with the lamb, And the leopard will lie down with the young goat, And the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; And a little boy will lead them. 7Also the cow and the bear will graze, Their young will lie down together, And the lion will eat straw like the ox.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
155
63
#19
The presence and purpose of millennial sacrifices neither diminish the finished work
of Christ
, nor violates the literal interpretation of these prophetic passages. Nothing in
Ezekiel 40—48 conflicts with the death of Christ or New Testament teaching at any
point.
hmm....i just can't shake the feeling that the sacrifice of animals after Jesus Christ suffered and died on the Cross would not diminish His work.

but, we are assured God is indeed planning to go there, and He will take pleasure in it.

ALRIGHTY....still working on this.

i wonder where i could go to see if this might be true.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
155
63
#20
let's see:


Why I Am Not A Dispensationalist

Animal Sacrifices in the Millennium?

One of the most embarrassing aspects of Dispensationalism is their insistence that there will be a return to animal sacrifices during the Millennium. Most Dispensationalists have no idea that this is part of their system. The Progressive Dispensationalists have mostly abandoned this element. However, the hard-core Dispensationalists still hold to it.

If you recall, Dispensationalists believe that after his second coming, Jesus will reign on the earth for exactly one thousand years. This thousand-year period is often called the Millennium, taken from the Latin phrase "thousand years," found in Revelation 20.

Whereas all Premillennialists believe in a future Millennium on earth, Dispensationalists are unique in that they believe that the temple will be rebuilt in Jerusalem, according to the vision given in Ezekiel 40-48. Herein lies the problem.

The vision in Ezekiel 40-48 includes animal sacrifices. Because Dispensationalists are committed to a literal, future fulfillment of Ezekiel 40-48, Dispensationalists believe that there will be a return to animal sacrifices during the Millennium.

Some Dispensationalists have tried to skirt the issue by arguing that the animal sacrifices are of a memorial nature. Thus, the animal sacrifices are simply pointing back to the death of Christ, in a similar way that the Lord's Supper points back to Christ.

However, the text of Ezekiel 40-48 belies this claim. These are not mere memorial animal sacrifices. Fourteen times, the text calls for a "sin offering" (Ezekiel 40:39; 42:13; 43:19, 21, 22, 25; 44:27, 29; 45:17, 19, 22, 23, 25; 46:20).

Leviticus describes the sin offering as "making atonement" (Leviticus 4:20, 26, 31, 35, etc.). These are animal sacrifices to atone for sin.

dispensationalist.blogspot.ca


.......

Fourteen times, the text calls for a "sin offering"
Ezekiel 40:39; 42:13; 43:19, 21, 22, 25; 44:27, 29; 45:17, 19, 22, 23, 25; 46:20


remember, we can not violate a literal interpretation of Ezekiel.

now we know for certain (if we have actually checked) that a literal interpretation of Ezekiel says the sacrifices are FOR SIN.

so, i guess i'm on pretty safe ground NOW, by claiming that:

Re: God has future animal sacrifices planned

1) that are to make atonement for SIN
2) He will take pleasure in them
3) this is a fact, and lies ahead in the Coming Kingdom, which is primarily about Israel.


GOOD SO FAR?