God heareth not sinners vs Sinner's prayer

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Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,196
2,362
113
#1
I have been thinking about this for a while, many people (me included) said the Sinner's prayer, or whatever you wish to call it.

I believe the idea of it is taken from Romans 10:9-10.

I see nothing wrong with it. Obviously it can be mis-used and has been as a repeat this after me and you're saved dont worry about it.

BUT: We know from both NT and OT scriptures that God heareth not sinners, so how does God hear the sinner's prayer? I guess you could say well you stop being a sinner when you put your faith in Christ FIRST in your heart, and THEN you confess it through that prayer outloud.
That is how I look at it.

What do you guys think about it? Chime in!
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
16,091
3,011
113
#2
If God did not hear sinners, no one could be saved.

God does not hear the insincere petitions of sinners with ulterior motives, that is motives of their own way rather than motives yielding to our Father in spirit and truth. Without yielding to our Father in spirit and truth, the sinner is not heard...….not at all.
 
Sep 9, 2018
2,244
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Illinois
#3
What do you guys think about it? Chime in!
The sinner's prayer that we use when leading folks to Christ is actually only an outward expression of an inward reality. The person is saved the instant they understand with their mind and receive Christ in their heart. The words of the prayer, "Lord Jesus, I am a sinner. I deserve to go to hell, but I believe You died for me and You will forgive me of all my sins. Make me Your child and give me eternal life, in Jesus Name', Amen (or words similar but to that effect) are for the assurance of the new believer. "For with the mouth confession is made unto salvation" is not really saying a sinner's prayer, but telling someone else that they did get saved . . . becoming a witness.

Water Baptism, for instance, does not save anyone, but it is a public profession of their faith and an outward picture of what happened internally when the person was saved.

"The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (I Peter 3:21).

A 'figure' is a shadow of the real thing. A picture.

The Calvinists will start gnashing their teeth against the truth of "whosoever will may come" in 3 . . . 2 . . . 1 . . .
 

Kaps89

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2018
219
304
63
Kent, England
#4
If God did not hear sinners, no one could be saved.

God does not hear the insincere petitions of sinners with ulterior motives, that is motives of their own way rather than motives yielding to our Father in spirit and truth. Without yielding to our Father in spirit and truth, the sinner is not heard...….not at all.
This is an interesting thread and I agree with JaumeJ in that if God did not hear sinners then no-one would be saved. I've said the sinners prayer. I believed God heard me. I outwardly professed my faith. I'm sure other people will have differing opinions about this topic and I look forward to hearing them.

T
 

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
1,562
533
113
#5
If God did not hear sinners, no one could be saved.

God does not hear the insincere petitions of sinners with ulterior motives, that is motives of their own way rather than motives yielding to our Father in spirit and truth. Without yielding to our Father in spirit and truth, the sinner is not heard...….not at all.
That's not what the scriptures actually say though.

John 9:31
Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshiper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.
^does not listen to

ἀκούει (akouei)
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's Greek 191: To hear, listen, comprehend by hearing; pass: is heard, reported. A primary verb; to hear.

But, some will argue, how else do sinners repent and find their way into God's grace covenant of salvation?
Perhaps this:

2 Timothy 2:19 But the firm foundament of God standeth, having this mark [having this mark, either signet], The Lord knoweth which be his, and, Each man that nameth the name of the Lord, departeth from wickedness [depart from wickedness].


Numbers 16:5
And he spake to Korah, and to all the multitude; he said, Early the Lord shall make known which men pertain to him, and he shall apply, or draw, to him holy men; and they which he hath chosen, shall nigh to him. (And he spoke to Korah, and to all the multitude, and said, Early tomorrow the Lord shall make known which man pertaineth to him, for he shall draw to himself the man who is holy; and he whom he hath chosen, shall be near to him.)
 

Kaps89

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2018
219
304
63
Kent, England
#6
That's not what the scriptures actually say though.

John 9:31
Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshiper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.
^does not listen to
ἀκούει (akouei)
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's Greek 191: To hear, listen, comprehend by hearing; pass: is heard, reported. A primary verb; to hear.

But, some will argue, how else do sinners repent and find their way into God's grace covenant of salvation?
Perhaps this:

2 Timothy 2:19 But the firm foundament of God standeth, having this mark [having this mark, either signet], The Lord knoweth which be his, and, Each man that nameth the name of the Lord, departeth from wickedness [depart from wickedness].


Numbers 16:5
And he spake to Korah, and to all the multitude; he said, Early the Lord shall make known which men pertain to him, and he shall apply, or draw, to him holy men; and they which he hath chosen, shall nigh to him. (And he spoke to Korah, and to all the multitude, and said, Early tomorrow the Lord shall make known which man pertaineth to him, for he shall draw to himself the man who is holy; and he whom he hath chosen, shall be near to him.)
Thank you for posting this. I found John 9:31 very interesting.

T
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
16,091
3,011
113
#9
That's not what the scriptures actually say though.

John 9:31
Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshiper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.
^does not listen to
ἀκούει (akouei)
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's Greek 191: To hear, listen, comprehend by hearing; pass: is heard, reported. A primary verb; to hear.

But, some will argue, how else do sinners repent and find their way into God's grace covenant of salvation?
Perhaps this:

2 Timothy 2:19 But the firm foundament of God standeth, having this mark [having this mark, either signet], The Lord knoweth which be his, and, Each man that nameth the name of the Lord, departeth from wickedness [depart from wickedness].


Numbers 16:5
And he spake to Korah, and to all the multitude; he said, Early the Lord shall make known which men pertain to him, and he shall apply, or draw, to him holy men; and they which he hath chosen, shall nigh to him. (And he spoke to Korah, and to all the multitude, and said, Early tomorrow the Lord shall make known which man pertaineth to him, for he shall draw to himself the man who is holy; and he whom he hath chosen, shall be near to him.)
I have responded (compound past tense) to th post previous to my own, thank you. Please bear (present) in mind the context and circumstances of the reply.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,113
14,758
113
#11
I have been thinking about this for a while, many people (me included) said the Sinner's prayer, or whatever you wish to call it.

I believe the idea of it is taken from Romans 10:9-10.

I see nothing wrong with it. Obviously it can be mis-used and has been as a repeat this after me and you're saved dont worry about it.

BUT: We know from both NT and OT scriptures that God heareth not sinners, so how does God hear the sinner's prayer? I guess you could say well you stop being a sinner when you put your faith in Christ FIRST in your heart, and THEN you confess it through that prayer outloud.
That is how I look at it.

What do you guys think about it? Chime in!
My view.....men over complicate almost everything......be merciful unto me a sinner is as simple as it can get...or....LORD, remember me in your kingdom..........Lord, help thou my unbelief........etc.....

Too many times we take that which is simple and we make a mountain out of a mole hill..........just saying
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
1,726
501
113
#12
When man introduced sin into the world by disobeying God death was introduced for sin means death. God immediately gave a way to salvation and Christ was from the beginning.

For 4,000 years the blood of innocent, perfect animals was used as a symbol for Christ. As soon as man was able to hear and understand this God gave the feasts to us to celebrate this plan of forgiveness and to enact it in our life so it was a terrible thing when the church turned from this celebration and replaced it with manmade celebrations.

When we sin we are living without God, we are living with death but we have forgiveness offered. God is not with us during our sin, but God is with us the minute we turn to Him. That is why it is so very dangerous when men gloat about their not being under sin but grace and use this as a reason to ignore sin rather than to turn from it.

We are under grace through Christ, for God planned for our salvation from the beginning.
 

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
1,562
533
113
#13
When man introduced sin into the world by disobeying God death was introduced for sin means death. God immediately gave a way to salvation and Christ was from the beginning.

For 4,000 years the blood of innocent, perfect animals was used as a symbol for Christ. As soon as man was able to hear and understand this God gave the feasts to us to celebrate this plan of forgiveness and to enact it in our life so it was a terrible thing when the church turned from this celebration and replaced it with manmade celebrations.

When we sin we are living without God, we are living with death but we have forgiveness offered. God is not with us during our sin, but God is with us the minute we turn to Him. That is why it is so very dangerous when men gloat about their not being under sin but grace and use this as a reason to ignore sin rather than to turn from it.

We are under grace through Christ, for God planned for our salvation from the beginning.
Man didn't invent sin.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
1,726
501
113
#14
Man didn't invent sin.
Whatever are you talking about? Are you saying that Adam and Eve did not introduce sin into the world? Where in the world did you come up with this man inventing sin?
 

Laish

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2016
1,575
371
83
53
#15
Man didn't invent sin.
He did say introduce. It’s a different word
. You did bring up something interesting. Who do you think invented sin?
Blessings
Bill
 

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
1,562
533
113
#16
Whatever are you talking about? Are you saying that Adam and Eve did not introduce sin into the world? Where in the world did you come up with this man inventing sin?
OK, would you prefer, create sin? Man did not create sin.
God did.
1 John 3:4 states that “sin is lawlessness.”
God created the law and just like in man's laws there are compliance factors and prosecutions for non-compliance.
The same with God's laws. There is compliance factors, as in the command, thou shalt not murder. And there are prosecutions for non-compliance. In God's law breaking his law is sin.
But the only way any of this became a factor in the beginning before humans was by God's will. His law and his ordained punishments for non-compliance.
Lucifer sinned in Heaven when he led the rebellion of 1/3rd of the Heavenly hosts in a war against God and the remaining angels. And for his sin he was cast down to the earth where we would become as that fallen spirit, lord of earth. Walking around going to and fro upon it, like a hungry lion seeking souls to devour. And yet, he wasn't forbidden to enter Heaven again. Job chapters 1 & 2.

God in the garden could have prevented the fall of man by not planting the tree of knowledge there. Or, he could have planted it but not made his law to make it a forbidden tree. An the punishment, the prosecution for disobeying his command to not eat, that of banishment from the garden and all the sufferings Adam and Eve would endure having come into full awareness of their flesh.
He could have forgiven them right then and there and he could have punished Satan as the wise angel that knew ahead of time which tree to slither up into so as to tempt a woman with no knowledge of his evil.
But he didn't.
God is sovereign. No thing happens outside his will.
Ephesians 1

We, the human race, made in the image and likeness of God, were the macrocosm to the story of Job and Satan microcosm.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
25,203
2,711
113
#17
Don't know if the OP intended it/or maybe he did, but, wow, this sure went to a celebration of Calvinism in a hurry...........
 

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
1,562
533
113
#18
Don't know if the OP intended it/or maybe he did, but, wow, this sure went to a celebration of Calvinism in a hurry...........
Two charges that would be great if they disappeared from forum discussions entirely. Charges of Calvinism, as if that's an insult and should shut down any further discourse, and especially when Calvinism's doctrine is arrived at through an amalgam of God's scriptures. And Hitler!
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
1,726
501
113
#19
OK, would you prefer, create sin? Man did not create sin.
God did.
1 John 3:4 states that “sin is lawlessness.”
God created the law and just like in man's laws there are compliance factors and prosecutions for non-compliance.
The same with God's laws. There is compliance factors, as in the command, thou shalt not murder. And there are prosecutions for non-compliance. In God's law breaking his law is sin.
But the only way any of this became a factor in the beginning before humans was by God's will. His law and his ordained punishments for non-compliance.
Lucifer sinned in Heaven when he led the rebellion of 1/3rd of the Heavenly hosts in a war against God and the remaining angels. And for his sin he was cast down to the earth where we would become as that fallen spirit, lord of earth. Walking around going to and fro upon it, like a hungry lion seeking souls to devour. And yet, he wasn't forbidden to enter Heaven again. Job chapters 1 & 2.

God in the garden could have prevented the fall of man by not planting the tree of knowledge there. Or, he could have planted it but not made his law to make it a forbidden tree. An the punishment, the prosecution for disobeying his command to not eat, that of banishment from the garden and all the sufferings Adam and Eve would endure having come into full awareness of their flesh.
He could have forgiven them right then and there and he could have punished Satan as the wise angel that knew ahead of time which tree to slither up into so as to tempt a woman with no knowledge of his evil.
But he didn't.
God is sovereign. No thing happens outside his will.
Ephesians 1

We, the human race, made in the image and likeness of God, were the macrocosm to the story of Job and Satan microcosm.
When I repeated what scripture tells us, however did you read it to say "man created sin"? Man disobeyed and the knowledge of sin came into the world, that is just how it was. Satan was jealous of Adam and tempted him, and is still making promises to us to tempt us, that has nothing to do with the definition of sin, or that God created it.

God gave man an escape from the death of sin then, God gives man the same escapt from the death caused by sin now. That is also how it is.
 

marinerscatch

Active member
Nov 23, 2018
114
31
28
#20
This is border line of claiming God does not hear the cry of the prodigal son. Clearly the prodigal son went from good standing in God to about as far away from God as possible. But in the end, we see God running open armed to meet the prodigal son as he returns. Although I am saved, I am still a sinner under Grace. I sin daily, unfortunately. And I have complete faith that God hears me and exonerates me even though He knows I will sin again. I believe God hears the heart, not the mouth. When we are sincere, our heart is already in the correct place for God to intervene. When we are not sincere, God knows the difference in plain ole lip service.