God, what's Water Baptism for?

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Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
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This is a common problem with charismata. One of the many reasons that I left that movement.
I'm glad God called you out of that heretical cult.
The more we grow and mature IN CHRIST, we will eventually come out of ALL denominations and only associate ourselves with Christ ALONE.

We'll still attend our favorite congregation of believers but, we won't be beholden to any particular denomination.
 

Locoponydirtman

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Oct 9, 2018
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Once you are able to recognize that Peter was writing to Israel, everything becomes clear. 1 Peter 1:1

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

Only Israelite Jews could be scattered abroad, they were forced to leave Jerusalem at Acts 8. Gentiles cannot be scattered since that term gentiles does not have a specific nation.

As he was told by Christ himself in Mark 16:16, the gospel of the Kingdom requires water baptism for salvation. So Peter is correct in saying water baptism saves.
I guess I missed your point,
Are you saying that Jews are saved by baptism but not gentiles?
 
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Would Jesus disciples baptize with John's baptism or Jesus's baptism?
John's ministry was based on the law and hope.
With John into the water.
Jesus's ministry to end/satisfy/fulfill the law for righteousness and was based on the Spirit of Grace.
With Jesus into his death
AKA take up your cross and follow me if you want to be my disciples.
or come and die to you so you might live to God.

Once they received the baptism of Jesus did the apostles continue with water baptism?
 

Locoponydirtman

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I NEVER said I was God. :rolleyes:

You can read the Holy Bible all your life but, you will NOT understand unless you humble yourself and ask the Holy Spirit to give you understanding.

Human reasoning will come up with all kinds of interpretations but, NEVER the Truth.
About one thing you are correct.
God never contradicts himself.
Therefore he didn't say the things you claim he said to you. That was you answering yourself. Because his word says differently. No where in scripture is it written that baptism is a sign. Scripture does say that circumcision is a sign.
Romans says baptism joins you to Christ in his death.
Peter said, "baptism now saves you".

Another reason that I left neo-evangelicalism, and charismaism, y'all give the scriptures your own meanings and claim it's new revelation from God.
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
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Would Jesus disciples baptize with John's baptism or Jesus's baptism?
John's ministry was based on the law and hope.
With John into the water.
Jesus's ministry to end/satisfy/fulfill the law for righteousness and was based on the Spirit of Grace.
With Jesus into his death
AKA take up your cross and follow me if you want to be my disciples.
or come and die to you so you might live to God.

Once they received the baptism of Jesus did the apostles continue with water baptism?
A first century apologist addressed the idea of waterless baptism, he called it a heresy.
Also in acts Philip baptized the Ethiopian in water, "As they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch *said, “Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?” [ And Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”] And he ordered the chariot to stop; and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch, and he baptized him. When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord snatched Philip away; and the eunuch no longer saw him, but went on his way rejoicing.
Acts 8:36‭-‬39 NASB
It's very clear baptism is in water.
 
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A first century apologist addressed the idea of waterless baptism, he called it a heresy.
Also in acts Philip baptized the Ethiopian in water, "As they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch *said, “Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?” [ And Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”] And he ordered the chariot to stop; and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch, and he baptized him. When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord snatched Philip away; and the eunuch no longer saw him, but went on his way rejoicing.
Acts 8:36‭-‬39 NASB
It's very clear baptism is in water.
I understand it like this.
Water baptism is the first act of faith a believe is called to so it saves that way as a confession of faith in action.
I found this helpful.
http://www.churchhistory101.com/feedback/water-baptism.php
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
5,955
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About one thing you are correct.
God never contradicts himself.
Therefore he didn't say the things you claim he said to you. That was you answering yourself. Because his word says differently. No where in scripture is it written that baptism is a sign. Scripture does say that circumcision is a sign.
Romans says baptism joins you to Christ in his death.
Peter said, "baptism now saves you".

Another reason that I left neo-evangelicalism, and charismaism, y'all give the scriptures your own meanings and claim it's new revelation from God.
In your human reasoning, you are misinterpreting what Peter said. Here's the Amplified Bible to help you:

1 Peter 3:18-22 Amplified Bible (AMP)
18 For indeed Christ died for sins once for all, the Just and Righteous for the unjust and unrighteous [the Innocent for the guilty] so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the Spirit;

19 in which He also went and preached to the spirits now in prison,

20 who once were disobedient, when the great patience of God was waiting in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons [Noah’s family], were brought safely through the water.

21 Corresponding to that [rescue through the flood], baptism [which is an expression of a believer’s new life in Christ] now [a]saves you, not by removing dirt from the body, but by an appeal to God for a good (clear) conscience, [demonstrating what you believe to be yours] through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God [that is, the place of honor and authority], with [all] angels and authorities and powers made subservient to Him.

Footnotes:
  1. 1 Peter 3:21 Baptism is a public representation of that which actually saves the believer—one’s personal faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus the Messiah.
When a believer is water baptized in the Name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, the Water Baptism is a SIGN (outward public expression) of the New Covenant of Jesus' Blood and Body - that the believer by personal faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ as Messiah - their Savior - saves them and faith in the power of the Holy Spirit to raise them from the dead - the same Spirit that raised Jesus Christ from the dead.
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
5,955
3,085
113
Would Jesus disciples baptize with John's baptism or Jesus's baptism?
John's ministry was based on the law and hope.
With John into the water.
Jesus's ministry to end/satisfy/fulfill the law for righteousness and was based on the Spirit of Grace.
With Jesus into his death
AKA take up your cross and follow me if you want to be my disciples.
or come and die to you so you might live to God.

Once they received the baptism of Jesus did the apostles continue with water baptism?
Yes, Water Baptism continued. All believers were water baptized after they confessed faith in Blood and Body of Jesus Christ, the ONLY Savior and Lord.

Matthew 28:18-20 King James Version (KJV)
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
5,955
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A first century apologist addressed the idea of waterless baptism, he called it a heresy.
Also in acts Philip baptized the Ethiopian in water, "As they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch *said, “Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?” [ And Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”] And he ordered the chariot to stop; and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch, and he baptized him. When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord snatched Philip away; and the eunuch no longer saw him, but went on his way rejoicing.
Acts 8:36‭-‬39 NASB
It's very clear baptism is in water.
Yes, I agree baptism is to be done in WATER.

Also, John the Baptist told us of two other baptisms that Jesus would do with us - Baptism with the Holy Spirit and with Fire.

Matthew 3:11 King James Version (KJV)
11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
 

Lafftur

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Apr 18, 2017
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Heresy - Just another word for I am right and you are wrong and I am going to kill you now to shut you up!!!
Oh Lion222, that is so true! When someone says "heresy" I think they are planning to kill us! lol! :giggle:(y)

Well, at least we'll get a "martyr's crown"! :giggle::love:(y)
 
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Yes, Water Baptism continued. All believers were water baptized after they confessed faith in Blood and Body of Jesus Christ, the ONLY Savior and Lord.

Matthew 28:18-20 King James Version (KJV)
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
What baptism was that referring to? John's or Jesus's
Acts 1:5
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
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What baptism was that referring to? John's or Jesus's
Acts 1:5
Jesus'

Acts 1:4-9 King James Version (KJV)
4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
 
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Oh Lion222, that is so true! When someone says "heresy" I think they are planning to kill us! lol! :giggle:(y)

Well, at least we'll get a "martyr's crown"! :giggle::love:(y)
Yeah entire groups of Christians slaughterer for being heretics, man woman and child by so called Christians.
Their is no worse persecutor of the children of God then the religious self righteous fool making he doctrine and creed his own throne with the bible under one leg to keep it from wobbling.
 
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Jesus'

Acts 1:4-9 King James Version (KJV)
4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
So he sent them to baptize with the Holy Ghost and make disciples while talking about how all the power has been given to Him....
and we are still talking about if we are getting wet the right way as it that is really what Jesus cares about?
 
Jan 12, 2019
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I guess I missed your point,
Are you saying that Jews are saved by baptism but not gentiles?
No, I am saying that under the gospel of Kingdom which was meant for Israel only, you have to believe in Jesus as your promised Messiah AND be water baptized to be saved.

That was explicitly stated in both Mark 16:16 as well as Acts 2:38, and Peter reinforced that in the 1 Peter passage that you have used.

Until the nation Israel rejected that gospel, then we gentiles could be saved independently thru the fall of Israel, as described in Romans 11.

Individual Jews who wished to be saved, after Israel has fallen, must also be saved likewise. Both are now saved by 1 Cor 15:1-4.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Yes, Water Baptism continued. All believers were water baptized after they confessed faith in Blood and Body of Jesus Christ, the ONLY Savior and Lord.

Matthew 28:18-20 King James Version (KJV)
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Those who hold on to this, for the sake of holding on to the doctrine of water baptism, why do they ignore verse 20?

Do you not realized that Jesus commanded many things recorded in the book of Matthew, including following the Law of Moses? Do you do that?
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
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So he sent them to baptize with the Holy Ghost and make disciples while talking about how all the power has been given to Him....
and we are still talking about if we are getting wet the right way as it that is really what Jesus cares about?
It doesn’t do any good getting irritated with others, we all learn differently and have all kinds of doctrinal “baggage.”

Just share what you understand and leave others in God’s Hands. He’ll fix all of us! :love:(y)
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
5,955
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Those who hold on to this, for the sake of holding on to the doctrine of water baptism, why do they ignore verse 20?

Do you not realized that Jesus commanded many things recorded in the book of Matthew, including following the Law of Moses? Do you do that?
The Law of Moses got nailed to the Cross.

Do you understand that God has placed His slain Lamb on a THRONE in Heaven and He is bowed to and worshipped......do you understand the Authority and Power of God’s Mercy that has been given to His Lamb?
 
Jan 12, 2019
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The Law of Moses got nailed to the Cross.

Do you understand that God has placed His slain Lamb on a THRONE in Heaven and He is bowed to and worshipped......do you understand the Authority and Power of God’s Mercy that has been given to His Lamb?
But Jesus never told the 11 that at Matthew 28. We only knew that after Paul wrote his letters.

If you want to understand Matthew 28, the great commission in context, based on how the 11 understood it, you cannot anticipate revelation.