Godliness

[Roughsoul1991]

1 Timothy 4:8 (NIV)
8 For physical training is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come.

The old, the one with mental illness, the physically sick, and the handicapped has one thing in common. Most of us will experience if not all of these things as life goes on. Physical training of our bodies has tremendous value for our life on Earth. But what happens when your body fails, gets sick, is in an accident, or your life is drastically changed by something beyond your control?

1 Tim 4:8 reminds us that godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come. Godliness is defined as...

Godliness- is the reverent awareness of God's sovereignty over every aspect of life, and the attendant determination to honor him in all one's conduct. "Godliness" and "holiness" denote one reality (the terms are joined in 1 Tim 2, and 2 Peter 3:11)

Psalm 73:26 (NIV)
26 My flesh and my heart may fail,
but God is the strength of my heart
and my portion forever.

Our flesh may fail or in time will fail but having our ultimate value in God is where we find purpose, hope, and strength.

No matter the situation of the flesh, for the one who is eternally minded, there will be hope.

Philippians 4:8 (ESV)
8 Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.

Mankind for 1000s of years have fought and died for what they believed to be true, honorable, just, pure in need of defending, lovely, or the things that brought comfort and joy, commendable or worthy of such sacrifice.

2 Timothy 2:4 (NIV)
4 No one serving as a soldier gets entangled in civilian affairs, but rather tries to please his commanding officer.

No matter life's situation we are called to adapt. Those of us who are focused on our heavenly commanding officer, has no time to get distracted as the orders are clear and do not cease to be even if our situation isn't favorable.

 

[DorothyMae]

1 Timothy 4:8 (NIV)
8 For physical training is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come.

The old, the one with mental illness, the physically sick, and the handicapped has one thing in common. Most of us will experience if not all of these things as life goes on. Physical training of our bodies has tremendous value for our life on Earth. But what happens when your body fails, gets sick, is in an accident, or your life is drastically changed by something beyond your control?

1 Tim 4:8 reminds us that godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come. Godliness is defined as...

Godliness- is the reverent awareness of God's sovereignty over every aspect of life, and the attendant determination to honor him in all one's conduct. "Godliness" and "holiness" denote one reality (the terms are joined in 1 Tim 2, and 2 Peter 3:11)

Psalm 73:26 (NIV)
26 My flesh and my heart may fail,
but God is the strength of my heart
and my portion forever.

Our flesh may fail or in time will fail but having our ultimate value in God is where we find purpose, hope, and strength.

No matter the situation of the flesh, for the one who is eternally minded, there will be hope.

Philippians 4:8 (ESV)
8 Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.

Mankind for 1000s of years have fought and died for what they believed to be true, honorable, just, pure in need of defending, lovely, or the things that brought comfort and joy, commendable or worthy of such sacrifice.

2 Timothy 2:4 (NIV)
4 No one serving as a soldier gets entangled in civilian affairs, but rather tries to please his commanding officer.

No matter life's situation we are called to adapt. Those of us who are focused on our heavenly commanding officer, has no time to get distracted as the orders are clear and do not cease to be even if our situation isn't favorable.

I don’t see even many of us experiencing being handicapped or mentally ill let alone all of us.

I mean godliness is of course of greatest value, but one doesn’t have be told they’ll one day be handicapped or mentally ill so they’d be better off pursing godliness. It is of greater value to the hale sand hearty young adults in the prime of life with no mental or physical problems at all.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

I don’t see even many of us experiencing being handicapped or mentally ill let alone all of us.

I mean godliness is of course of greatest value, but one doesn’t have be told they’ll one day be handicapped or mentally ill so they’d be better off pursing godliness. It is of greater value to the hale sand hearty young adults in the prime of life with no mental or physical problems at all.

Most if not all of us fit into getting old. Usually getting old means things begin to not function right and for most the body is easily affected by disease. Which mental illness is often high in elderly patients. But this is even if you make it to old age. Many now struggle with disease, physical impairment or mental illness. Anxiety and depression is statically super high.

A can guarantee you, you will experience getting old if you are blessed with many years.

 

[DorothyMae]

Most if not all of us fit into getting old. Usually getting old means things begin to not function right and for most the body is easily affected by disease. Which mental illness is often high in elderly patients. But this is even if you make it to old age. Many now struggle with disease, physical impairment or mental illness. Anxiety and depression is statically super high.

A can guarantee you, you will experience getting old if you are blessed with many years.

Well, if a man has not achieved a degree of holiness by walking with God his whole life, starting at an age where he/she can hardly funciton at all will not accomplish that. Approching old age is not at all a strong argument to a 20 year old. "Follow JEsus because one day you too will be old and helpless." Does anyone in the BIble do that?

Now the last statment in your post a good one. Many do suffer anxiety and depression which God can cure for sure.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Our flesh may fail or in time will fail but having our ultimate value in God is where we find purpose, hope, and strength.

A verse that I hold close to my heart is 1 Timothy 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.

So important for us to nurture our relationship with Father ...

 

[DorothyMae]

A verse that I hold close to my heart is 1 Timothy 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.

So important for us to nurture our relationship with Father ...

Do you know this is best nurtured? John 14:23

It is popular and cheap to think that our relationship with God is nurtured by spending time with Him. Costs us pretty much nothing. It is expensive and what he actually asks, to obey Him in the details of our choices. But today, sigh, the church wants to hear that God wants nothing more than to spend time with you. This is not in the Bible and it is so ego feeding I can hardly believe some very dedicated children of God do not see it for what it is. So in the end, those who spend a lot of time "with God" will not find the understanding of the ways of God that those who actually obey Him do. This is hard and fast. He will not change on that point. Obey Him and you will find Him in ways those who only prayer never will.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Well, if a man has not achieved a degree of holiness by walking with God his whole life, starting at an age where he/she can hardly funciton at all will not accomplish that. Approching old age is not at all a strong argument to a 20 year old. "Follow JEsus because one day you too will be old and helpless." Does anyone in the BIble do that?

Now the last statment in your post a good one. Many do suffer anxiety and depression which God can cure for sure.

How do you know this message was for a twenty year old and not a older person or someone dealing with such issues? I'm 29 and it speaks to me just as much as the old.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

A verse that I hold close to my heart is 1 Timothy 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.

So important for us to nurture our relationship with Father ...

Amen

 

[Hungry]

How do you know this message was for a twenty year old and not a older person or someone dealing with such issues? I'm 29 and it speaks to me just as much as the old.

I’m in my 40s and I found that training physically excessively may be even counterproductive to my walk with God. There is a very definite hormonal response to becoming “jacked”. This response is very carnal. I backed off because I understand with man as a dichotomy, flesh and spirit, which ever part you feed gets stronger. I find throughout history, it is when God’s people are carnally weak, probably hungry, oppressed and abused is when they are seeking Him and when He responds. I also noticed it is during my times of fasting and abstinence I hear Him most clearly. Starve the flesh, feed the spirit; this for me has led to great fellowship with the Creator.

 

[DorothyMae]

How do you know this message was for a twenty year old and not a older person or someone dealing with such issues? I'm 29 and it speaks to me just as much as the old.

Most 20 year olds are not concerned with starting holiness when they are old people. I have yet to hear this appeal to anyone. No one in the Bible appealed to people to think about what happens when they are old. They did talk about after death, not after youth.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

I’m in my 40s and I found that training physically excessively may be even counterproductive to my walk with God. There is a very definite hormonal response to becoming “jacked”. This response is very carnal. I backed off because I understand with man as a dichotomy, flesh and spirit, which ever part you feed gets stronger. I find throughout history, it is when God’s people are carnally weak, probably hungry, oppressed and abused is when they are seeking Him and when He responds. I also noticed it is during my times of fasting and abstinence I hear Him most clearly. Starve the flesh, feed the spirit; this for me has led to great fellowship with the Creator.

Speaking just physically training, there has to always be a balance. Feeling healthy and looking healthy does tend to boost people's moods or confidence. But to rely on it for self-satisfaction makes oneself an idol.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Most 20 year olds are not concerned with starting holiness when they are old people. I have yet to hear this appeal to anyone. No one in the Bible appealed to people to think about what happens when they are old. They did talk about after death, not after youth.

I'm not following the logic here.

Is it good to encourage the elderly, the sick, the physical impaired, and the mentally ill?

Correct me if I am wrong but I will assume you will say yes.

We as Christians are to be beacons of light for all. And we are called to not only evangelize but also to disciple and edify the believers.

This doesn't require an age limit. Period.

 

[DorothyMae]

I'm not following the logic here.

Is it good to encourage the elderly, the sick, the physical impaired, and the mentally ill?

Correct me if I am wrong but I will assume you will say yes.

We as Christians are to be beacons of light for all. And we are called to not only evangelize but also to disciple and edify the believers.

This doesn't require an age limit. Period.

You wrote the following (no italics)
1 Timothy 4:8 (NIV)
8 For physical training is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come.

The old, the one with mental illness, the physically sick, and the handicapped has one thing in common. Most of us will experience if not all of these things as life goes on. Physical training of our bodies has tremendous value for our life on Earth. But what happens when your body fails, gets sick, is in an accident, or your life is drastically changed by something beyond your control?

1 Tim 4:8 reminds us that godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come. Godliness is defined as...

The statement in italics is not true. Most of us will not experienced being handicapped. Most of us will not experience mental illness. The appeal to godliness is based on "most of us experiencing" these tihngs and that is not true. The appeal to godliness is good, but I do not see that an appeal to somethng that any atheist will tell you is not true is going to be effective.

This is not a big deal really but I think about how atheists think of these things, having debated a lot of them, and they will not be moved by appealing to what they know is very unlikely to happen. All of us die for sure. Not all of us become mentally ill or handicapped. That is all.

Yes, of course those who are ought to also aspire to godliness. All Christians ought to do so for sure. This is really not a big deal and I can drop it as it really is a minor issue.

 

[Hungry]

Speaking just physically training, there has to always be a balance. Feeling healthy and looking healthy does tend to boost people's moods or confidence. But to rely on it for self-satisfaction makes oneself an idol.

Agreed but it’s not just a feeling of confidence. There is very real increased sexual appetite and aggression. It is how God engineered our survival protocol. When faced with exhaustive continual physical demand be it be stimulated by labor or enemy, testosterone is released to increase libido to pass on genetic information (to possibly increase workers or just maintain population in harsh environments) and to prevail over aggressors. Women have sensors to react to the pheromones released. At certain times of the month women are more likely to respond to Alphas. It’s all designed for the strength of the species. The endocrine system is the carnal side of man.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Do you know this is best nurtured? John 14:23

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Do you believe that my seeking God is disobedience on my part?

Psalm 5:

3 My voice shalt thou hear in the morning, O LORD; in the morning will I direct my prayer unto thee, and will look up.

4 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.

5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.

7 But as for me, I will come into thy house in the multitude of thy mercy: and in thy fear will I worship toward thy holy temple.

It is popular and cheap to think that our relationship with God is nurtured by spending time with Him. Costs us pretty much nothing.

Psalm 63:

1 O God, thou art my God; early will I seek thee: my soul thirsteth for thee, my flesh longeth for thee in a dry and thirsty land, where no water is;

2 To see thy power and thy glory, so as I have seen thee in the sanctuary.

3 Because thy lovingkindness is better than life, my lips shall praise thee.

4 Thus will I bless thee while I live: I will lift up my hands in thy name.

5 My soul shall be satisfied as with marrow and fatness; and my mouth shall praise thee with joyful lips:

6 When I remember thee upon my bed, and meditate on thee in the night watches.

7 Because thou hast been my help, therefore in the shadow of thy wings will I rejoice. 8 My soul followeth hard after thee: thy right hand upholdeth me.


Did you know that Jesus sought God early in the morning? Mark 1:35 And in the morning, rising up a great while before day, he went out, and departed into a solitary place, and there prayed.


Did you know that Jesus withdrew from His companions so that He could spend time with Father? Matthew 14:13 When Jesus heard of it, he departed thence by ship into a desert place apart ...

this was when Jesus heard about John's beheading. The multitudes followed Him and He was interrupted. He healed them, fed them with 5 loaves and 2 fishes. When they were gone, He again separated Himself so that He could spend time with Father and pray ...

Matthew 14:23 And when he had sent the multitudes away, he went up into a mountain apart to pray: and when the evening was come, he was there alone.


I love my time alone with God. Say what you will ... it is beneficial for me. And I believe it is beneficial for those with whom I come into contact. I am fed by Father and He is able to feed others through me.

It is expensive and what he actually asks, to obey Him in the details of our choices.

And you know me so well that you know I do not "obey Him in the details of [my] choices"???

But today, sigh, the church wants to hear that God wants nothing more than to spend time with you. This is not in the Bible and it is so ego feeding I can hardly believe some very dedicated children of God do not see it for what it is. So in the end, those who spend a lot of time "with God" will not find the understanding of the ways of God that those who actually obey Him do. This is hard and fast. He will not change on that point. Obey Him and you will find Him in ways those who only prayer never will.

Do you ever spend time "with God" ... just you and God???

 

[Roughsoul1991]

You wrote the following (no italics)
1 Timothy 4:8 (NIV)
8 For physical training is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come.

The old, the one with mental illness, the physically sick, and the handicapped has one thing in common. Most of us will experience if not all of these things as life goes on. Physical training of our bodies has tremendous value for our life on Earth. But what happens when your body fails, gets sick, is in an accident, or your life is drastically changed by something beyond your control?

1 Tim 4:8 reminds us that godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come. Godliness is defined as...

The statement in italics is not true. Most of us will not experienced being handicapped. Most of us will not experience mental illness. The appeal to godliness is based on "most of us experiencing" these tihngs and that is not true. The appeal to godliness is good, but I do not see that an appeal to somethng that any atheist will tell you is not true is going to be effective.

This is not a big deal really but I think about how atheists think of these things, having debated a lot of them, and they will not be moved by appealing to what they know is very unlikely to happen. All of us die for sure. Not all of us become mentally ill or handicapped. That is all.

Yes, of course those who are ought to also aspire to godliness. All Christians ought to do so for sure. This is really not a big deal and I can drop it as it really is a minor issue.

The statement in italics is not true. Most of us will not experienced being handicapped. Most of us will not experience mental illness.

I can almost guarantee you as you get old, things will wear out and you will be physically impaired. Mental illness is extremely high
1 in 5 U.S. adults experience mental illness each year
1 in 25 U.S. adults experience serious mental illness each year
1 in 6 U.S. youth aged 6-17 experience a mental health disorder each year
50% of all lifetime mental illness begins by age 14, and 75% by age 24
Suicide is the 2nd leading cause of death among people aged 10-34.

But I was also careful with my wording and said Most of us will experience if not all of these things as life goes on.

3 variables. Decay, sickness, mental health.

I said most if not all. Most will struggle with some kind of mental health issue or sickness. Where as all who live long enough will experience the aches of decay.

The atheist has no ground to stand on intellectually. What I have said is plain reality. Not even sure why you even see the need to debate it. But I would assume there must be a emotionally charged reason and not a intellectual one. I have debated many atheists and everything I write is rich in study.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

You wrote the following (no italics)
1 Timothy 4:8 (NIV)
8 For physical training is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come.

The old, the one with mental illness, the physically sick, and the handicapped has one thing in common. Most of us will experience if not all of these things as life goes on. Physical training of our bodies has tremendous value for our life on Earth. But what happens when your body fails, gets sick, is in an accident, or your life is drastically changed by something beyond your control?

1 Tim 4:8 reminds us that godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come. Godliness is defined as...

The statement in italics is not true. Most of us will not experienced being handicapped. Most of us will not experience mental illness. The appeal to godliness is based on "most of us experiencing" these tihngs and that is not true. The appeal to godliness is good, but I do not see that an appeal to somethng that any atheist will tell you is not true is going to be effective.

This is not a big deal really but I think about how atheists think of these things, having debated a lot of them, and they will not be moved by appealing to what they know is very unlikely to happen. All of us die for sure. Not all of us become mentally ill or handicapped. That is all.

Yes, of course those who are ought to also aspire to godliness. All Christians ought to do so for sure. This is really not a big deal and I can drop it as it really is a minor issue.

Also who is my audience? I'm not speaking to atheists about godliness.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Agreed but it’s not just a feeling of confidence. There is very real increased sexual appetite and aggression. It is how God engineered our survival protocol. When faced with exhaustive continual physical demand be it be stimulated by labor or enemy, testosterone is released to increase libido to pass on genetic information (to possibly increase workers or just maintain population in harsh environments) and to prevail over aggressors. Women have sensors to react to the pheromones released. At certain times of the month women are more likely to respond to Alphas. It’s all designed for the strength of the species. The endocrine system is the carnal side of man.

I don't follow how something designed for the strength of the species is bad.

You are forgetting the moral, mind, and choice factors. Again a human female in the specific time frame where conception is most likely doesn't force her to mate. She may have a chemical persuasion but we are not as atheists say biological robots just responding to the environment with no mind or morals.

And I assume we are talking about a healthy individual and not one with brain damage.

 

[DorothyMae]

Also who is my audience? I'm not speaking to atheists about godliness.

Never heard any epistle writer encourage the believers to pursue godliness cause one day each of them will suffer mental illness or have a handicap. Not one.

 

[DorothyMae]

I can almost guarantee you as you get old, things will wear out and you will be physically impaired.

Godliness is then impossible. And you really can’t do that. There are accidents you know.

Mental illness is extremely high
1 in 5 U.S. adults experience mental illness each year
1 in 25 U.S. adults experience serious mental illness each year
1 in 6 U.S. youth aged 6-17 experience a mental health disorder each year
50% of all lifetime mental illness begins by age 14, and 75% by age 24
Suicide is the 2nd leading cause of death among people aged 10-34.

It is known that the US is declining.
a

But I was also careful with my wording and said Most of us will experience if not all of these things as life goes on.

Sorry, dont buy “if not all.”

3 variables. Decay, sickness, mental health.

I said most if not all. Most will struggle with some kind of mental health issue or sickness. Where as all who live long enough will experience the aches of decay.

The atheist has no ground to stand on intellectually. What I have said is plain reality. Not even sure why you even see the need to debate it. But I would assume there must be a emotionally charged reason and not a intellectual one. I have debated many atheists and everything I write is rich in study.

We don’t agree. It’s ok.