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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#41
Hear two more parables of JESUS:

Matthew chapter 25

[1] Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
[2] And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
[3] They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
[4] But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
[5] While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
[6] And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
[7] Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
[8] And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
[9] But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
[10] And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
[11] Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
[12] But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
[13] Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

Here, we have an account of ten virgins (vs. 1), and not an account of five virgins and five fornicators, whores, adulteresses, etc. All ten of these virgins “took their lamps and went forth to meet the bridegroom” (vs. 1).

Who is “the bridegroom"?

Of course, it’s none other than Jesus Christ (John 3:29). In other words, all ten of these virgins were saved at some point in time and they were all awaiting the second coming of Jesus Christ. However, five of these virgins were wise, and five were foolish (vs. 2). Those who “were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them” (vs. 3). We know that “oil” signifies the anointing in scripture, but we are not to mistakenly believe that these five foolish virgins were never anointed or never Christians to begin with.

Why shouldn’t we make such a mistake?

Well, because we are told of the five foolish virgins “our lamps are gone out” (vs. 8). A lamp cannot “go out” if it was never lit to begin with. In other words, these five foolish virgins initially had lamps which were lit with “oil”, or they all initially had the light of Christ in them in that they were born again of his Spirit.

Were these five foolish virgins “once saved, always saved”?

No, they were not. In fact, Jesus ultimately shut the door to them (vs. 10) and told them, “Verily I say unto you, I know you not” (vs. 12).

Continuing on in this same 25th chapter of Matthew’s gospel, we read:

[14] For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
[15] And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
[16] Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
[17] And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
[18] But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
[19] After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
[20] And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
[21] His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
[22] He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
[23] His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
[24] Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
[25] And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
[26] His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
[27] Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
[28] Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
[29] For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
[30] And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Here, we see the same exact principle.

All three of the “servants” in this parable are “his own servants” (vs. 14) in that Jesus is “the lord of those servants” (vs. 19). All three of the Lord’s servants were given "talents" (vs. 15) by Jesus, but one of them had it taken back by Jesus (vs. 28) because he didn’t give it back to the Lord with “usury” or interest (vss. 26-27), and he was ultimately “cast…into outer darkness” where “there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth” (vs. 30).

Again, does this sounds like Jesus was teaching “once saved, always saved”?

Of course, he wasn’t, and he never did.
Actually they were never saved

The oil is representative of the HS, they did not have the HS. thus that is why they were not prepaired
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#42
There is but one gospel, and it is the gospel of the kingdom, with Christ as its King.

I know, from reading many of your posts throughout this forum, that you disagree, based in part on what Jesus' disciples preached prior to his death, burial, and resurrection. To that point, they should have known about his pending death, burial, and resurrection because Jesus not only told them about the same, but the Old Testament scriptures consistently foretold of the same as well. Their problem stemmed from their mistaken belief that Christ would establish the kingdom of God here on earth at his first coming, and he needed to inform them that it wouldn't happen until his second coming.

In fact, this was the purpose behind the following parable of Jesus:

Luke chapter 19

[11] And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
[12] He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
[13] And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
[14] But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
[15] And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
[16] Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
[17] And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
[18] And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
[19] And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
[20] And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:
[21] For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.
[22] And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:
[23] Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?
[24] And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds.
[25] (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.)
[26] For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
[27] But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

It had long been prophesied that Christ, as the prophesied son of David, would sit on David's throne within a temple in Jerusalem from which he shall reign over this earth. A lot of the people believed this, but they believed that it would happen at his first coming, and not at a second coming. In other words, they missed the whole part about him having to FIRST be crucified, buried, resurrected, and ascended back to heaven. This is where you and certain others here are missing it. It's still the same coming kingdom that applies to all of us, but some people had the timing of its coming wrong.

Anyhow, as was the case in Matthew's parable, we once again see a servant of Christ having that which was initially given him taken away, so this whole "once saved, always saved" nonsense flies directly in the face of what Christ himself taught.
Yes there is but one gospel

And according to that one gospel

Whoever believes has eternal (not conditional life)
Whoever believes shall never perish, not might never perish
Whoever believes has past from life to death. Not some where inbetween
Whoever believes will never hunger and thirst, Will never die. Will love forever. and will be raised on the last day. Jesus said will. He never said might
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
2,896
1,594
113
London
#43
What you are trying to prove is the idea that we cannot choose to walk
away from the Lord if we once became His forgiven, saved person.

Matthew 24: 12 Because of the multiplication of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold. 13But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.
well at least John Wayne will be saved ...he had true grit and we know true grit is the requirement for being saved.

I will own up to being foolish and weak and of no account, my faith is not in any true grit I may have, my faith is banked with Jesus ... He has never lost one of His sheeps.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
18,522
9,446
113
#44
What you are trying to prove is the idea that we cannot choose to walk away from the Lord if we once became His forgiven, saved person.
He is not trying to prove anything. If you do not understand at this point that eternal life is God's free gift to the one who believes, you never will.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#45
What you are trying to prove is the idea that we cannot choose to walk
away from the Lord if we once became His forgiven, saved person.

Matthew 24: 12 Because of the multiplication of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold. 13But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.
Mathew 24 is clearly talking about the tribulation. Its not taking about a believer today who gets saved and from that point he has to endure to the end of his life to make it to heaven. This is a handy verse for those who do not rightly check the context of verses .
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#46
Wow!

I'll wait to see if anybody else here refutes that nonsense before commenting on it myself.

I need to take care of some things now. Be back later.
Show me why its nonsense from Paul's letters . This is doctrine for the church. Show me where salvation today is a bargain with God . A contract / promise ? No 1 cor .1.21 and explains how we are saved today. Along with rom 10 .9 -15 . 1 cor 15 .1-4 . Eph 1 . 13
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
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#47
There are multiple ways, throughout both the old and new testaments alike, to disprove the teaching of “once saved, always saved” or “OSAS”. In this post, I’ll begin by examining one of the teachings of Jesus Christ as recorded in one of his parables.

I’ve deliberately chosen the words of Jesus because if anybody knows whether or not “once saved, always saved” is true, then it is most certainly the Savior himself who knows the same. As we’re about to begin to see, Jesus never taught “once saved, always saved” as a doctrine, but, instead, he regularly taught the polar opposite or that people who were “once saved” could later be lost.

We read:

Mark chapter 4

[1] And he began again to teach by the sea side: and there was gathered unto him a great multitude, so that he entered into a ship, and sat in the sea; and the whole multitude was by the sea on the land.
[2] And he taught them many things by parables, and said unto them in his doctrine,
[3] Hearken; Behold, there went out a sower to sow:
[4] And it came to pass, as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and the fowls of the air came and devoured it up.
[5] And some fell on stony ground, where it had not much earth; and immediately it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth:
[6] But when the sun was up, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away.
[7] And some fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up, and choked it, and it yielded no fruit.
[8] And other fell on good ground, and did yield fruit that sprang up and increased; and brought forth, some thirty, and some sixty, and some an hundred.
[9] And he said unto them, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
[10] And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable.
[11] And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
[12] That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
[13] And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?
[14] The sower soweth the word.
[15] And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.
[16] And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness;
[17] And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.
[18] And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word,
[19] And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.
[20] And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.

The first thing that we need to notice is Jesus’ question to his disciples:

“Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?” (vs. 13)

Here, Jesus was informing his disciples that they would not be able to properly understand all of his other parables without first properly understanding this particular parable.

With such being the case, what did Jesus teach in regard to salvation in this parable?

Did he teach “once saved, always saved”, or did he, in reality, teach the polar opposite of the same?

In this parable, Jesus spoke of four different types of soil or four different conditions of the human heart with which the seed of God’s word makes contact.

In relation to the seed which “fell by the way side” (vs. 4), Jesus said:

“And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.” (vs. 15)

This first group of hearers, sad to say, is never “saved” to begin with in that Satan immediately takes away the word that is sown in their hearts. As such, “once saved, always saved” has no real relevance here.

In relation to the seed which “fell upon stony ground” (vs. 5), Jesus said:

“And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness; And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.” (vss. 16-17)

This group of hearers “when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness” and “endure but for a time”. Yes, as Jesus said in vs. 5, “immediately it sprang up” or immediately the word which was received had results in regard to salvation.

In the parallel account of this parable in Matthew’s gospel, this group of hearers “dureth for a while” (Matt. 13:21), and in the parallel account in Luke’s gospel, this group of hearers “for a while believe” (Luke 8:13). With such being the case, these hearers are “once saved”, but, sad to say, they are not “always saved” in that “when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word’s sake, immediately they are offended” or, as Luke’s account puts it, these hearers are those who “in time of temptation fall away” (Luke 8:13). One simply cannot “fall away” from something of which he or she was never a part to begin with, so Jesus was definitely NOT teaching “once saved, always saved” here.

In relation to the seed which “fell among thorns” (vs. 7), Jesus said:

“And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word, And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.” (vss. 18-19)

This group of hearers initially receive the word and bear fruit until the time comes that “the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful”. Something cannot “become unfruitful” unless it was first fruitful.

In fact, in the parallel account in Luke’s gospel, this group of hearers “bring no fruit to perfection” (Luke 8:14). Again, there was some initial growth in relation to “fruit”, but, sad to say, such got choked and it became unfruitful. No “once saved, always saved” here, either.

In relation to the seed which “fell on good ground” (vs. 8), Jesus said:

“And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.” (vs. 20)

Here’s what Jesus said about this group of hearers in Luke’s parallel account:

“But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.” (Luke 8:15)

It’s not enough to initially receive the word which is sown within our hearts, but we must “keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience”. In other words, as Jesus said elsewhere, it is only “he that endureth to the end” who “shall be saved” (Matthew 10:22, 24:13).

This same principle is found throughout other parables which Jesus taught as well.
You've yet to show any verse from the New testament?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#48
Precious friend(s), if you have ever had the feeling that God's Free Gift
Of Eternal life HE Gave
to you is somehow not secure, then you are not
alone. We are human, and many believers struggle with this.

Let us then, set aside, for a moment, the claims/theology that tries to
verify this Insecurity, and instead, take the Following Scriptural Approach:

Let us examine God's Trustworthy WORD Of Truth { KJB! }, And Prayerfully
Carefully gather For Comparison All The Appropriate Passages For God's Sound
Doctrine Of Eternal Assurance,
in accordance with God's Bible "study" { GBSR }
Rule # 5, and then allow HIS Plain And Clear Words Of Truth to speak, shall we?:

Assurance Of God's ETERNAL/EVERLASTING Salvation!

Praise God For Over FIFTY Solid Verses of BIBLICAL FACTS,
For All who have humbly trusted/believed/placed 100% faith in:


The LORD JESUS CHRIST,
HIS Death {Precious BLOOD!}, Burial, And Resurrection!:

Saved By GRACE Through faith! Ephesians_2:4-5, 8-9

The LORD Knoweth them that Are HIS! 2_Timothy 2:19

HIS Are Chosen/Predestinated/Accepted In The Beloved { SON },
By God, The Father,
Before Time Began! Ephesians_1:4-6

God Predestinated HIS saints to obtain an inheritance
After The Counsel Of HIS Own Will!
Ephesians_1:11

Eternal Assurance Is ONE Of:

”The Unsearchable RICHES Of CHRIST…” Which Are
“...According To The ETERNAL Purpose Which
HE Purposed In CHRIST JESUS our LORD!”

(Ephesians_3:8, 11)

God Justified HIS saints, Because Of HIS Foreknowledge, Also
Predestinating
us To Be Conformed To The Image Of HIS SON!
Romans_8:29

And those Predestinated, Are Also Called, Justified, And Glorified!
Romans_8:30

”...If God Be For us, who can be against us?” (Romans_8:31)

”Who shall lay Any Thing to the charge of God’s elect?
It Is God Who Justifies us!”

(Romans_8:33)

God Prepared vessels of Mercy, For HIS Glory! Romans_9:23

“God Hath Not Cast Away HIS people whom HE Foreknew!” (Romans_11:2)

“Who Hath Saved us, And Called us with a holy Calling, NOT according to
our works, But According To HIS Own Purpose And GRACE, Which Was
Given us In CHRIST JESUS Before the world began!”
(2_Timothy_1:9)

“In WHOM we Have Redemption Through HIS Blood, The Forgiveness
Of sins, According To The Riches Of HIS GRACE!”
(Ephesians_1:7)

we Have No condemnation, Because CHRIST Died, Is Risen, And Is At
The Right Hand Of God, And Makes Intercession For us!
Romans_8:34

In CHRIST JESUS we Are Free from the law of sin and death! Romans_8:2

The Spirit Of God Dwells In us! Romans_8:9

we Have Received The Spirit Of Adoption, Whereby we cry, Abba, Father!
Romans_8:15

“The Spirit HIMSELF Beareth Witness with our spirit,
that we Are the children of God!”
(Romans_8:16)

God Establishes And Anoints us In CHRIST! 2_Corinthians_1:20

God Seals us And Gives us The Earnest Of The Spirit! 2_Corinthians_1:22

ONLY God Knows the heart of Every man! Acts_15:8; Romans_8:27

"That we should be to The Praise Of HIS Glory, who first trusted In CHRIST!
In WHOM ye also trusted, after that ye heard The Word Of Truth,
The Gospel Of your salvation: In WHOM also after that ye believed, ye Were Sealed
With That Holy Spirit Of Promise, Which Is The Earnest Of our inheritance Until
The Redemption Of The Purchased Possession, Unto The Praise Of HIS Glory!"

(Ephesians_1:12-14)

”Who Hath Also Sealed us, And Given The Earnest Of The Spirit in our hearts!”
(2_Corinthians_1:22)

"And grieve not The Holy Spirit Of God, Whereby ye Are
Sealed Unto The Day Of Redemption!"
(Ephesians_4:30)

"And such were some of you: But ye Are Washed, But
ye Are Sanctified, But ye Are Justified In The Name Of
The LORD JESUS, And By The Spirit Of our God!"

(1_Corinthians_6:11)

"But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren Beloved
Of The LORD, Because God Hath From The Beginning Chosen you To
Salvation Through Sanctification Of The Spirit And belief Of The Truth!"

(2_Thessalonians_2:13)

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, But
According To HIS Mercy HE Saved us, By The Washing Of
Regeneration, And Renewing Of The Holy Ghost!"
(Titus_3:5)

God's OPERATION?:

God Made us worthy for inheritance of saints! Colossians_1:12

God Delivered us From the power of darkness! Colossians_1:13

God Put us In The Kingdom Of HIS Dear SON! Colossians_1:14

God Justified us “...Freely By HIS GRACE Through The
Redemption That Is In CHRIST JESUS!"
(Romans_3:24)

God “Reckons Debt To those proud who work” For Salvation!
Romans_4:4

In GRACE, To him/her “that worketh not, but believeth on HIM that
Justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness!”

(Romans_4:5)

God, Through Paul, States: “...David also describeth the
blessedness of the man [ /woman ], unto whom God Imputeth
righteousness Without works!”
(Romans_4:6)

“Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities Are Forgiven, And
whose sins Are Covered [By HIS BLOOD?]! Blessed is the man
to whom The LORD WILL NOT Impute sin!”
(Romans_4:7-8)

YES, By HIS ALL-Sufficient BLOOD:

"But God Commendeth HIS LOVE Toward us, in that, while we were
yet sinners, CHRIST Died for us. Much More Then, being NOW JUSTIFIED
BY HIS BLOOD
, we SHALL BE SAVED From wrath Through HIM. For if,
when we were enemies, we Were Reconciled To God By The Death Of
HIS SON, Much More, being Reconciled, we SHALL BE SAVED BY HIS LIFE!"

(Romans_5:8-10)

God's All-Sufficient GRACE?

“For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; Much More they
which Receive Abundance Of GRACE And Of The Gift Of Righteousness
Shall reign in life By One, JESUS CHRIST!” (Romans_5:17)

"And HE Who Searcheth the hearts Knoweth What Is The Mind
Of The Spirit, Because HE Maketh Intercession For the saints
According To The Will Of God!"
(Romans_8:27)
==============================================
God's OPERATION!:

[ God, Who Raises the dead! {v. 9} ], "Who Delivered us from so Great a
death, And Doth Deliver: in Whom we trust that HE Will Yet Deliver us!"

Expounded:

{PAST Tense}: { Justification!!! = God Establishes Eternal Relationship! }
"Who Delivered us from so great a death,... {From The PENALTY of sin!}

{ PRESENT Tense }: ]
This would be the only part I would disagree on . ( highlighted )
The LORD Knoweth them that Are HIS! 2_Timothy 2:19

HIS Are Chosen/Predestinated/Accepted In The Beloved { SON },
By God, The Father,
BEFORE TIME BEGAN Ephesians_1:4-6

God Predestinated HIS saints to obtain an inheritance
After The Counsel Of HIS Own Will!
Ephesians_1:11

The 'BEFORE TIME BEGAN '

This is calvinistic understanding of predestination and election .

I believe
Predestination is of existing saints to adoption/glorification, not sinners to conversion. (Eph. 1:5, 11; Rom. 8:23, 29-30)
Election is to service, calling and purpose, not to salvation. (Isa. 42:1; Acts 9:15; Rom. 11:28)

Adoption is the future redemption of the body, not conversion. (Rom. 8:23, 15-17; Gal. 4:1-6)

Sinners become sons of God through the new birth, not through adoption. (John 1:12-13)

But I'm agreeing with you on everything else. Today a believer cannot be lost .
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#49
This would be the only part I would disagree on . ( highlighted )
The LORD Knoweth them that Are HIS! 2_Timothy 2:19

HIS Are Chosen/Predestinated/Accepted In The Beloved { SON },
By God, The Father,
BEFORE TIME BEGAN Ephesians_1:4-6

God Predestinated HIS saints to obtain an inheritance
After The Counsel Of HIS Own Will!
Ephesians_1:11

The 'BEFORE TIME BEGAN '

This is calvinistic understanding of predestination and election .

I believe
Predestination is of existing saints to adoption/glorification, not sinners to conversion. (Eph. 1:5, 11; Rom. 8:23, 29-30)
Election is to service, calling and purpose, not to salvation. (Isa. 42:1; Acts 9:15; Rom. 11:28)

Adoption is the future redemption of the body, not conversion. (Rom. 8:23, 15-17; Gal. 4:1-6)

Sinners become sons of God through the new birth, not through adoption. (John 1:12-13)

But I'm agreeing with you on everything else. Today a believer cannot be lost .
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
6,337
4,623
113
#51
He is not trying to prove anything. If you do not understand at this point that eternal life is God's free gift to the one who believes, you never will.
Can we not understand that as well as understanding we still have a free will?
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,069
2,277
113
#53
Today..are you not sealed unto the day of redemption?
We live in an orderly world that is run by Holy Laws as precise as the tides of the ocean are precise. The basic law of the Lord, what was established as soon as Adam and Eve changed us through their disobedience, is that God gave blood on the altar for the salvation of our souls. It is Christ's blood that saves us, and that is ONLY when we have faith in Him and ask forgiveness. The other part of this rule is that if we want Christ to forgive us we must be forgiving, and we must live in a state of repentance--not wanting to sin. You cannot have it any different any more than you can change the order of the tides of the ocean.

So we are sealed when we accept the way God gave for us to be sealed, we are dead when we do not live as God told us to live. It is minute by minute, not a matter of accepting it one minute and then not needing to accept it any longer, but free to disobey the Lord.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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#54
We live in an orderly world that is run by Holy Laws as precise as the tides of the ocean are precise. The basic law of the Lord, what was established as soon as Adam and Eve changed us through their disobedience, is that God gave blood on the altar for the salvation of our souls. It is Christ's blood that saves us, and that is ONLY when we have faith in Him and ask forgiveness. The other part of this rule is that if we want Christ to forgive us we must be forgiving, and we must live in a state of repentance--not wanting to sin. You cannot have it any different any more than you can change the order of the tides of the ocean.

So we are sealed when we accept the way God gave for us to be sealed, we are dead when we do not live as God told us to live. It is minute by minute, not a matter of accepting it one minute and then not needing to accept it any longer, but free to disobey the Lord.
Do you have any scripture where Paul says a person in Christ can be lost ?
 
Dec 9, 2011
12,649
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#55
"And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son." (I John 5:11)

Eternal life is in God's Son or Jesus.

Those who begin in Christ and remain are saved.

Those who begin in Christ and later depart are not.

It's really that simple.
Do you believe that salvation = faith +works or do you believe that salvation = faith alone.

The bible says that a person who Is really saved will seek to purify themselves even as they are pure.

Shouldn't scripture harmonize with other scriptures or should some scriptures be correct and other scriptures In error?

1 Peter 1:23
King James Version

23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
 

Blade

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2019
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#56
Hi Grace_I would like to say no but there are those dark times when one could be tested by the enemy. I read someone say something about marriage that both could walk away. He (the Father) can't for He will never break that covenant. When Christ spoke who was He talking to? Not one Christian. They will still under the law. Something happened after He went to the Cross and rose AMEN GLORY TO JESUS! YES! Love it. Does He not leave the 99 to go after the one? A thief only says "remember me" and is with Christ now. Does He not finish what He started in you? A key word here "being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ; "

So please share who here has only tasted of Christ? And you know that sin you did there is no more sacrifice for.. He can't die again. ONCE was enough for ALL! Jews that were saved at first tried to offer a sacrifice for that sin but.. God through Paul told them.. Christ can't die again.

This is just funny sometimes. Some talk as if you can walk away...ok from who? Please describe just exactly what you know your walking away from. One would have to know Him as the Angels did yet fell. And then which faith, doctrine, believe of Jesus is true? Baptist, Lutheran, Pentecostal, AOG, Naz, Catholic, JW, SDA, Mormon on and on

Don't you ever wonder why Christ let Judas stay or how a thief could say "remember me" and is now with Christ. For me once you see through His eyes as He looks at us and He cries because not one knows how much He loves them. We don't even fully understand His love. He went to the Cross alone. No one that knew Him as the messiah and loved Him believed in Him stuck up for Him. Yet He died for the world. In the powers to come

Notice something miss here? Our enemy? All those demons and fallen angels and lies.. yeah have to put that in the equation. See Satan and his angels made the free choice alone. Christ told us the moment the WORD is spoken/planted the enemy comes and tries to steal it. "And these are the ones by the wayside where the word is sown. When they hear, Satan comes immediately and takes away the word that was sown in their hearts.". ABout a year ago had a dream all I saw was this huge plant had this week around it. All He said was "you have to let them grow together". So no matter what you SEE its not always what you think. :)

Out of everything I (Allies "dont you worry tomorrow will take care of its self).. haha praise GOD GLORY TO JESUS! Well song playing JUST as I was going to talk about? "Tomorrow" something I was not promised .. out of everything I said I don't worry about it since I was not promised tomorrow (oh see I thought that was going to write then..THEN the song played) so I live in this moment. Its NOW that matters.. do you know Him? TODAY is what counts. Hes not talking about this... where do you think these kind of thoughts questions come from? Oh there is not time in heaven "on earth as it IS in heaven".
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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#57
Do you have any scripture where Paul says a person in Christ can be lost ?
Is it your opinion that Paul disagrees with Christ? Or that scripture sometimes disagrees with scripture so it is not from the one true God, but different Gods?

If a person is in Christ then that person is in a state of repentance. It is possible to choose not to be in Christ at any time, but to be in Christ is to be forgiven and saved.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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#58
Is it your opinion that Paul disagrees with Christ? Or that scripture sometimes disagrees with scripture so it is not from the one true God, but different Gods?

If a person is in Christ then that person is in a state of repentance. It is possible to choose not to be in Christ at any time, but to be in Christ is to be forgiven and saved.
You say quite a bit without scripture?
No ,Paul does not disagree with Christ. Jesus taught Paul by direct revelation ( Gal 1.12 ),the things he wanted Paul to say and teach to the body of Christ . Thats why we have 13 long epistles filled with Jesus s teachings to Paul FOR the body of christ . Your mixing Jesus's teachings to Israel with His teachings to the body of Christ . Did Jesus teach Islam to the Jews and the bible to the body of Christ? no . Did he teach radically different teachings that were completely foreign to the understanding of the body of Christ , and visa versa ? No is it the same God ? yes . Did God stop revealing at ' Israel ' ? No . Did God stop revealing at the 4 gospels? No . Did God stop revealing in the book of Acts ? Acts 1 ? 2 ? ,3,4 ,5 ,6 ,7 ? How about After Acts 9 ? Acts 10 ? 11? Ect ect ...
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E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#59
Do you believe that salvation = faith +works or do you believe that salvation = faith alone.

The bible says that a person who Is really saved will seek to purify themselves even as they are pure.

Shouldn't scripture harmonize with other scriptures or should some scriptures be correct and other scriptures In error?

1 Peter 1:23
King James Version

23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Amen

We do not lose faith in those who always have our back and who never let us down. People who claim God let them down so muich they lose faith in God do not really know God. Because God does not let us down. He may not give us anything we want, But he gives us what is best. Those who truly know him know this.

Thats why John said those who left were never of us..
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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#60
I've never come across anyone who thinks that Eternal Life as being temporary. Have you come across anyone who believes this?