GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

lightbearer · Mar 30, 2018

This type of work (toil) is permitted. It is not our work (toil) when we do for others when there is need.

Exod 20:9 says, Six days you shall work, and shall do all your works;

In the LXX which is the Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures there are two different Greek words used in Exodus 20:9.

The one used in the the clause, "Six days you shall work" is the same word used in John 5:17, "My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. It is ergazomai and it means to engage in activity that involves effort according to the BDAG lexicon.

Anything we do Spirituality or physically falls within this definition. Helping someone is a Spiritual activity. We are only commandment to abstain from our toil on the Sabbath. That which one does as regular activity, work, occupation, task to survive. This is how the second Greek word translated works in Exodus 20:9 is defined. Either could be used in reference to Spiritual work or physical work. However the commandment is rather specific. It is our work we are to abstain from. Our regular activity, work, occupation, task to survive.

Hebrews 4:10 reiterates this.
10) For he that is entered into his Rest (the Gospel), he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

"As" is direct Comparison. There is no way around that. So it is A Ceasing from work like GOD did from HIS. It is the calling to those who entered in their rest (the Gospel rest in Jesus in GOD) to cease from their work AS GOD did. GOD ceased from HIS PHYSICAL work on the Seventh Day. GOD is already and forever Spirit. So HE did not enter enter into any Spiritual rest we do. He is our Spiritual rest. So we in harmony with Christ and the FATHER cease from our work on the Seventh Day as HE did. The Day HE hallowed (set apart) and blessed.

So what are our instructions in regards to keeping the Sabbath?

Because we have received the Gospel; the new heart and mind through Christ Jesus; old things having passed away, all things being new and of GOD. We Simply cease from our own works as GOD did from HIS. He simply rested from work; so we rest as HE did.
We also know we are to abstain from our own pleasure and call the Sabbath a delight; keep it Holy unto the LORD.

What better way is there to keep it Holy then to help our brothers and sisters who are in need while at the same time furthering the Gospel message.

Which is exactly what Jesus did. Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee. He; Who His own self bare our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.(Joh 5:14; 1Pe 2:24)

lightbearer · Mar 30, 2018

graceNpeace said:

That is not true.
When one experiences the Gospel rest they cease from their own work as GOD did from HIS. GOD was not ever a non Spiritual BEING as we are outside of Christ. For GOD is Spirit. So HE did not enter into some spiritual rest; HE is our rest in Christ Jesus. Hebrews four is a call to those experiencing the Gospel to cease from their own work as GOD did from His. Which was done on the Seventh Day of the week; which is the Sabbath.

Let's take a look at Hebrews chapter four.

1) Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us (the people of the writers day and us) of entering into his rest (the Gospel), any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel (His Rest) preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest (His Rest; the Gospel), as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest (the Gospel; the rest we have when Christ Jesus is our Life): although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. (the Gospel Rest has been available since Eden)

4) For HE (GOD) spake in a certain place (the giving of the Commandments on Mt. Sinia) of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

5,6) And in this place again, (GOD speaks of the Seventh Day) If they shall enter into my rest (the Gospel; the rest we have when Jesus is our life). Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein (the Gospel, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in (the Gospel) because of unbelief (obstinacy, obstinate opposition to the divine will):
If we receive the Gospel Rest in Christ; GOD is calling us to the Word that HE spoke of the Seventh Day on Mt Sinia.

The Gospel; our Rest in HIM and HE in us enables us now to partake of the Seventh Day Sabbath's hallowedness.

7) Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day (Now), after so long a time; as it is said, To day (now) if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

Dabid's (beloved's) Word's though GOD where and are a call to repentance; GOD's Rest in Christ. For unto us was the Gospel (His Rest) preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

For (because of the word just shared in Psalm) if Jesus (Joshua leading them into Canaan) had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day (constant call to the Gospel).

The leading them into the promise land was a symbol of what they already had available to them. After the forty years of roaming and seeing GOD's loving and guiding hand they were still only willing to receive the physical blessings and not the Spiritual; HIS Rest in Christ.

9) There remaineth (present tense) therefore a Sabbath keeping to the people of God.

This verse brings us back to verse 4 And in this place again, (GOD speaks of the Seventh Day) If they shall enter into my rest (the Gospel; the rest we have when Jesus is our life).

10) For he that is entered into his Rest (the Gospel), he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. (on the Seventh Day)

"As" is direct Comparison. There is no way around that. So it is A Ceasing from work like GOD did from HIS. It is the calling to those who entered in their rest (the Gospel rest in Jesus in GOD) to cease from their work AS GOD did. GOD ceased from HIS PHYSICAL work on the Seventh Day. GOD is already and forever Spirit. So HE did not enter enter into any Spiritual rest we do. He is our Spiritual rest. So we in harmony with Christ and the FATHER cease from our work on the Seventh Day as HE did. The Day HE hallowed (set apart) and blessed.

So what are our instructions in regards to keeping the Sabbath?

Because we have received the Gospel; the new heart and mind through Christ Jesus; old things having passed away, all things being new and of GOD. We Simply cease from our own works as GOD did from HIS. He simply rested from work; so we rest as HE did.

(Heb 4:1-10 KJV)

Stunnedbygrace · Mar 30, 2018

HeRoseFromTheDead said:

Superb!!!!

lightbearer · Mar 30, 2018

TMS said:

That what has been placed in our hearts, minds and mouths through Christ's indwelling. So it is no longer us, but Christ. It is He that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure. HE doeth the work. This is the Faith in which we speak. For we are dead nevertheless we live yet not us but Christ liveth in us and the life we now live in the flesh we live by the Faith of Son of GOD who gave himself for us. He; Who His own self bare our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes we were healed.

lightbearer · Mar 30, 2018

Off to work. May the LORD bless us all in HIS Son Jesus Christ.

graceNpeace · Mar 30, 2018

lightbearer said:

I know and understand Hebrews chapter 4 well!
It does NOT refer to the 7th day Sabbath....

The whole text is about entering His rest...
"[FONT=&quot]4 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it[/FONT][FONT=&quot].
The very first verse introduces the concept of entering His rest.
Bear in mind that the original readers of this epistle were ALL [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]Jewish[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot] believers. It was written to STOP Jewish believers returning to Judaism.
If the subject was the 7th day Sabbath, why would the author not just say so! Also, a promise that remains???
If this was the 7th day Sabbath the whole introductory sentence makes no sense at all....
And, "[FONT=&quot]let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it[/FONT].", makes no sense if "His rest" is the 7th day Sabbath, because was something that they observed their whole lives....
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]2 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them,[a] not being mixed with faith in those who heard it[/FONT][FONT=&quot].
Who is the "us" and "them" referred to in vs 2. "Us" are those Jews who heard and accepted the Gospel, and "them" are Jews who heard but did not believe.[/FONT]3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]“So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest,’”
[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Who enters the rest?
"we who have believed"
So the Jewish believers, no longer observing the Sabbath (although it makes no difference as we shall see) enter the rest. Jews who refused the Gospel, do not enter the rest, despite the fact that they observe the Sabbath religiously!
And the quote from Ps 95 is meant to emphasise this very point. Ps 95 addresses observant Jews for observed the Sabbath yet would NOT "enter My rest,"[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; [c]
God certainly rested as described, but the SABBBATH was only given to Moses as part of the Sinaitic covenant.
5 and again in this place: “They shall not enter My rest.”
vs 4 and 5 just emphasise the point from above...[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience,
Who were those "to whom it was first preached"?
The Jews in Moses time, none other!
All observed the Sabbath yet they did not "enter My rest."
And the same held for Jews going forward...[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.”
[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day.
Joshua took the Israelites into the promised land, yet this not the rest spoken of either....
9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.
If "There remains therefore a rest for the people of God" it must be something NOT available to Jews UNTIL the time of the NEW covenant. Clearly this cannot be the 7th day Sabbath. Obviously, Jews were observing this for thousands of years, yet the rest spoken of was not available to them![/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.
"he" is anyone who has accepted the gospel spoken of in vs 2, "who has entered His rest", clearly speaking of Jesus Christ in contradistinction to God [the Father] mentioned later in the verse. Any Christian can enter into the rest provided exclusively by Jesus Christ. This cannot be the 7th day Sabbath otherwise this rest that is the subject of this whole passage cannot be spoken of in terms of something NOT available to Jews!
What is this rest?
It spoken of in this way: "has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His."
Since creation was completed God has been resting!
God does not continue to work a six-day week and rest on the seventh!
This rest is described as a ceasing from works just as God did from His!
This is not an "every seventh day" event - this is a reference to an eternal state and a continuous state of rest![/FONT]
11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience."
vs 11 is just an earnest plea to NOT fall away back to Judaism, but to enter the rest that is ONLY found in Jesus Christ!

No, this passage does NOT describe the 7th day Sabbath!

gb9 · Mar 30, 2018

graceNpeace said:

I know and understand Hebrews chapter 4 well!
It does NOT refer to the 7th day Sabbath....

The whole text is about entering His rest...
"4 Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it.
The very first verse introduces the concept of entering His rest.
Bear in mind that the original readers of this epistle were ALL Jewish believers. It was written to STOP Jewish believers returning to Judaism.
If the subject was the 7th day Sabbath, why would the author not just say so! Also, a promise that remains???
If this was the 7th day Sabbath the whole introductory sentence makes no sense at all....
And, "let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it.", makes no sense if "His rest" is the 7th day Sabbath, because was something that they observed their whole lives....
2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them,[a] not being mixed with faith in those who heard it.
Who is the "us" and "them" referred to in vs 2. "Us" are those Jews who heard and accepted the Gospel, and "them" are Jews who heard but did not believe.3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:“So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest,’”

although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Who enters the rest?
"we who have believed"
So the Jewish believers, no longer observing the Sabbath (although it makes no difference as we shall see) enter the rest. Jews who refused the Gospel, do not enter the rest, despite the fact that they observe the Sabbath religiously!
And the quote from Ps 95 is meant to emphasise this very point. Ps 95 addresses observant Jews for observed the Sabbath yet would NOT "enter My rest,"
4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; [c]
God certainly rested as described, but the SABBBATH was only given to Moses as part of the Sinaitic covenant.
5 and again in this place: “They shall not enter My rest.”
vs 4 and 5 just emphasise the point from above...
6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience,
Who were those "to whom it was first preached"?
The Jews in Moses time, none other!
All observed the Sabbath yet they did not "enter My rest."
And the same held for Jews going forward...
7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said:
“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.”

8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day.
Joshua took the Israelites into the promised land, yet this not the rest spoken of either....
9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.
If "There remains therefore a rest for the people of God" it must be something NOT available to Jews UNTIL the time of the NEW covenant. Clearly this cannot be the 7th day Sabbath. Obviously, Jews were observing this for thousands of years, yet the rest spoken of was not available to them!
10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.
"he" is anyone who has accepted the gospel spoken of in vs 2, "who has entered His rest", clearly speaking of Jesus Christ in contradistinction to God [the Father] mentioned later in the verse. Any Christian can enter into the rest provided exclusively by Jesus Christ. This cannot be the 7th day Sabbath otherwise this rest that is the subject of this whole passage cannot be spoken of in terms of something NOT available to Jews!
What is this rest?
It spoken of in this way: "has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His."
Since creation was completed God has been resting!
God does not continue to work a six-day week and rest on the seventh!
This rest is described as a ceasing from works just as God did from His!
This is not an "every seventh day" event - this is a reference to an eternal state and a continuous state of rest!
11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience."
vs 11 is just an earnest plea to NOT fall away back to Judaism, but to enter the rest that is ONLY found in Jesus Christ!

No, this passage does NOT describe the 7th day Sabbath!

some folks just cannot understand that Christianity is NOT a version of Judaism . it is a totally different thing.

mailmandan · Mar 30, 2018

graceNpeace said:

Amen brother! Well said!

Hebrews 4:9 refers to the perpetual rest that is ONLY found in Jesus Christ, in contrast to the weekly 7th day Sabbath under the Law.

Ralph- · Mar 30, 2018

PS said:

That's why they think one must keep the literal Sabbath. Just like we think that the believer must keep the law 'do not steal', or 'love your neighbor as yourself' because it is the evidence of the faith that saves apart from works.

That is their conviction. That is what we are to allow them to believe without our interference. That is what Paul said to do.

gb9 · Mar 30, 2018

Ralph- said:

ralph, the o.p. of this thread had a website attached to most every post he put up that said sunday worship is the mark of the beast. that is not conviction , that is not conscience , this is false teaching.

you love to judge, can't you who lecture us on judging works judge this as bad??

HeRoseFromTheDead · Mar 30, 2018

Ralph- said:

But interference does not include teaching them sound doctrine or refuting error. You yourself admit that their faith is weak, which means they need instruction in righteousness.

mailmandan · Mar 30, 2018

gb9 said:

Amen! The OP (who is a Seventh-day Adventist) teaches that the near the end of time the "mark of the best" of Revelation 14 will be placed upon those who worship on Sunday instead of Saturday. That is not conviction, but false teaching indeed!

Bible Truth Versus Adventist Truth - Mark of the Beast

Ralph- · Mar 30, 2018

gb9 said:

Or maybe they are just like me and you and believe that obedience to the commands of God is the expected and obligatory sign of the presence of saving faith. Except that they just think obedience to the literal Sabbath is included in that obedience.

It's not a big deal. Really it's not. They believe in Christ too. Paul says let them think and believe what they want. This is what Paul says to those who insist on setting them straight:

6He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord

3The one who eats is not to regard with contempt the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

They do it for the Lord.

Don't treat them with contempt.

God has accepted them.

Who are you to judge the servant of another?

They are accountable to God, not us, and God is able to make them stand.

Ralph- · Mar 30, 2018

mailmandan said:

No, it's an opinion about the last times. Big deal. You have them too. And your's might be false too.

A fellow believer being wrong about something is NOT an excuse for you or I to ignore Paul's counsel on how to deal with those with different convictions than us.

Your responsibility to treat them with respect is greater than the rightness of your doctrine.

graceNpeace · Mar 30, 2018

Ralph- said:

Maybe you should STOP just speculating about what Adventists believe and go and do some REAL research into the matter!

Adventist theology is as "out-there" as the Mormon's, Christian Scientists, and Jehovah's Witnesses....
Maybe this is a shocking statement to you, but Adventists are NOT fellow Brothers and sisters in Christ!
But, perhaps you believe that the Christian Scientists are part of Christianity too...
What's more they look upon you as apostate and condemned to hell!
They (Adventists), are not as accomodating as you are....

gb9 · Mar 30, 2018

Ralph- said:

Or maybe they are just like me and you and believe that obedience to the commands of God is the expected and obligatory sign of the presence of saving faith. Except that they just think obedience to the literal Sabbath is included in that obedience.

It's not a big deal. Really it's not. They believe in Christ too. Paul says let them think and believe what they want. This is what Paul says to those who insist on setting them straight:

6He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord

3The one who eats is not to regard with contempt the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

They do it for the Lord.

Don't treat them with contempt.

God has accepted them.

Who are you to judge the servant of another?

They are accountable to God, not us, and God is able to make them stand.

o.k. whatever. sunday wrorship= beast mark, according to the mighy ralph, no big deal.

Ralph- · Mar 30, 2018

graceNpeace said:

If Adventists in particular do not believe in justification by faith apart from works then they are not fellow believers. But for you to lump all Sabbath keepers into one indistinguishable group who don't believe in grace apart from works is dead wrong to do.

Ralph- · Mar 30, 2018

gb9 said:

Get over it. It's an opinion. And you think it's wrong. So what.

But I'm guessing your opinion about what the mark is is absolutely true and correct, right?

graceNpeace · Mar 30, 2018

Ralph- said:

You are the one "lumping" things together, not me!

As for the other Sabbatarian groups, when one actually examines their theology one does NOT find orthodox theology!
Also, all Sabbatarian groups find their common roots in Millerism, which gave rise to Adventism...
You need to do your research!

mailmandan · Mar 30, 2018

Ralph- said:

Who said anything about an SDA who condemns Christians that worship God on Sunday instead of Saturday as being a fellow believer? That false SDA doctrine is a big deal!

GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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