Gospel of the Kingdom vs the Gospel Paul preached

[crossnote]

Just so you know brethren, what John146 is hiding about the theory of Hyper-Dispensationalism which he is preaching here...

They basically only recognize Apostle Paul's Epistles as being for Christ's Church, with the rest of The Bible meant only for Israel. That is simply just another deeper level of men's doctrines with its main purpose to support the false pre-trib rapture theory which Darby also preached in 1830's Great Britain, having gotten the idea from the Edward Irving church and twistings on Margaret McDonald's Scripture mumblings when she was in bed sick.

Although a pre-trib rapture theory can be disproved even in Apostle Paul's Epistles, they still seek to narrow any direct statements against it, like with our Lord Jesus telling His disciples upon the Mount of Olives in Matt.24 and Mark 13 about the day of His return and gathering of His Church AFTER... the tribulation. "Oh, that's only meant for Jews," they will say. "We only need to heed what Apostle Paul taught," they will say.

Well... not only Hyper-Dispensationalists, but most traditional Dispensationalists also refuse our Lord Jesus' revealing there in His Olivet Discourse about His coming to gather His Church after... the "great tribulation" He forewarned us about. All the pre-trib rapture traditions refuse to recognize that Matt.24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 Scripture being for Christ's Church. And that is just ONE example of many Scripture outside Paul's Epistles they refuse to recognize involving Christ's Church.

But then they will... use what Apostle John said in John 14 about Christ preparing the "many mansions" being for the Church, showing us how they are hypocrites seeking gain (filthy lucre). American Indians would call that speaking with a "forked tongue". They aren't serious about what God's Word says, they instead are serious about creating for themselves positions of authority over other brethren, and great publishing houses like they wanted their Berean Bible Society thingy to evolve to, putting money in their pockets! (see history of that involving C.R. Stam, et al).

Thus I have added yet another to my Ignore List...

Looks like you are somewhat read up on anti-dispensational dogma.
But your ad hominem against Darby by using Irving and McDonald is unproven.
Sticking to Scriptural proof of what you actually believe rather than only attacking the stance of another will give you more mileage...but it may also open your view to attacks as well, but at least you will be more credible.

 

[John146]

Just so you know brethren, what John146 is hiding about the theory of Hyper-Dispensationalism which he is preaching here...

They basically only recognize Apostle Paul's Epistles as being for Christ's Church, with the rest of The Bible meant only for Israel. That is simply just another deeper level of men's doctrines with its main purpose to support the false pre-trib rapture theory which Darby also preached in 1830's Great Britain, having gotten the idea from the Edward Irving church and twistings on Margaret McDonald's Scripture mumblings when she was in bed sick.

Although a pre-trib rapture theory can be disproved even in Apostle Paul's Epistles, they still seek to narrow any direct statements against it, like with our Lord Jesus telling His disciples upon the Mount of Olives in Matt.24 and Mark 13 about the day of His return and gathering of His Church AFTER... the tribulation. "Oh, that's only meant for Jews," they will say. "We only need to heed what Apostle Paul taught," they will say.

Well... not only Hyper-Dispensationalists, but most traditional Dispensationalists also refuse our Lord Jesus' revealing there in His Olivet Discourse about His coming to gather His Church after... the "great tribulation" He forewarned us about. All the pre-trib rapture traditions refuse to recognize that Matt.24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 Scripture being for Christ's Church. And that is just ONE example of many Scripture outside Paul's Epistles they refuse to recognize involving Christ's Church.

But then they will... use what Apostle John said in John 14 about Christ preparing the "many mansions" being for the Church, showing us how they are hypocrites seeking gain (filthy lucre). American Indians would call that speaking with a "forked tongue". They aren't serious about what God's Word says, they instead are serious about creating for themselves positions of authority over other brethren, and great publishing houses like they wanted their Berean Bible Society thingy to evolve to, putting money in their pockets! (see history of that involving C.R. Stam, et al).

Thus I have added yet another to my Ignore List...

If you disagree, please then explain what "the kingdom of heaven is at hand" means. Is this the preaching of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins?

 

[DP]

Looks like you are somewhat read up on anti-dispensational dogma.
But your ad hominem against Darby by using Irving and McDonald is unproven.
Sticking to Scriptural proof of what you actually believe rather than only attacking the stance of another will give you more mileage...but it may also open your view to attacks as well, but at least you will be more credible.

Dave McPhearson's scholarly work proved the origin of the Darby's secret pre-trib rapture theory. And his Dispensationalist dogma is easy to disprove by staying in God's Word as written, even though there's some small parts of it I agree with.

 

[DP]

If you disagree, please then explain what "the kingdom of heaven is at hand" means. Is this the preaching of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins?

Why do you keep toying with that same question over and over, when you yourself know the true answer, but deny it anyway in favor of following men's false Hyper-Dispensationalist traditions?

Study God's OT prophets if you want to truly understand what Apostle Paul taught in relation to our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[DP]

There is one sacrifice for all,JESUS.

THATsacrifice,and resurrection is for JEWS and GENTILES.

The message to the Jews is different than the message to the gentiles.
The Jews are told messiah has come,and the PRIESTHOOD has changed,along with the earthly throne.

THUS THE KINGDOM OF GOD TO THE JEWS

The gentile message is "GRAFT". IOW,we are grafted in,or have become descendants of Abraham.
We are now FAMILY,JOINT HEIRS,GRAFTED IN,INCLUDED.

that is why there are 2 messages but one way,JESUS.

Paul probably wrote Hebrews. It specifically ties in the old priesthood as types and shadows,to the new priesthood.

One good news,told different,to two different groups. (2 gospels,but 1 and the same savior)

But that's not the heights of what Hyper-Dispensationalism teaches. They instead teach that only Paul's Epistles are relevant for Christ's Church, even to the excluding of the Four Gospels and Books like Acts and Hebrews which they say are only for the Jews!

Paul's words here they take to a whole new other level, creating two separate Gospels out of it:

Gal 2:7-8
7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;


8 (For He That wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles
KJV

Some on that false doctrine even refuse to accept that Apostle Paul was chosen to not only preach The Gospel to Gentiles, but also to kings, AND the children of Israel! (Acts 9).

And some of them refuse to recognize that Apostle Philip was actually first... in preaching The Gospel to Gentiles (Acts 8).

 

[John146]

Why do you keep toying with that same question over and over, when you yourself know the true answer, but deny it anyway in favor of following men's false Hyper-Dispensationalist traditions?

Study God's OT prophets if you want to truly understand what Apostle Paul taught in relation to our Lord Jesus Christ.

If it's so obvious, then answer the question. What you're proposing is that the disciples taught the death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins when they had no clue what that was.

Luke 18:31-33, "Then he took [unto him] the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on; And they shall scourge [him], and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again(1 Corinthians 15:3-4, right?)...And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken."

e Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
Luke 24:6-11...after the resurrection Mary Magdalene and others told the disciples that Jesus was handed over to be crucified and that He has risen, verse 11, "And their words seemed to them as idle tales, and they believed them not."

Prior to the cross, the disciples had no understanding of the cross of Jesus Christ. They knew nothing about it. Certainly, the disciples did not preach something they did not understand and thought it was an idle tale. The significance of the cross could not be revealed to anyone until after the cross. If the message of the cross were not hidden, Satan would have tried to keep it from happening, instead, he initiated it to have victory over the seed.

 

[popeye]

Actually, the stance the OP is coming from is of those like C.R. Stam with the double gospel heresy based on John Darby's Dispensationalism.

Darby's creation of the pre-trib rapture caused a conflict with Scripture about Christ's future reign on earth, with His saints and the restoration of the kingdom of Israel on earth.

Some of these cats believe the Church stays in heaven with Jesus while He continues to reign from heaven over the kingdom of Israel and the nations on earth established during the Millennium. It's then they think the Jews will be saved, and thus one gospel for the Church and another gospel for Israel.

But it's all just a theory from Darby's Dispensationalist idea trying to drum up more support for his pre-trib rapture theory.

You act like believers such as myself lock ourselves into a padded room with darby demons and take psychedelic drugs to heighten our delusion.

YOU ARE WAY OFF.
Stop acting like those that disagree with you climb into time machines and meet your supposed gurus ,we never even heard of, before your personal revelations into our lives.

For Pete's sake try and make a sentence w/o "darby" ,"mcdonald","dispensation",or "pretrib"

Your condescending put downs,to me,point to some underlying problem you have with your own doctrine.

 

[John146]

Remember, the New Testament does not become in effect until after Christ's death (Hebrews 9:16). Therefore, the four Gospels must be considered transitional in nature. Their purpose is not to establish matters of practice for the New Testament believer, though every word has application to our lives in some way. The book of Acts is likewise transitional in nature, from Jew to Gentile, from Old to New Testament, from Peter to Paul, from Jerusalem to Antioch, from law to grace. Doctrine for the Church is established through Paul's epistles.

 

[pwrnJC]

I don't understand the division here. The Entire BIBLE...front to back...is for every person, every lost soul, every saved soul, every Christ follower, every non-believer. It is an anointed Holy Spirit inspired guidebook, road map, and living Word, unlike any book ever published. Each human being can find within it's pages inspirational gems of hope, historical facts, personal drama, and Supernatural events that have shaped our world. Individuals that receive and digest this WORD and have Jesus Christ as their Savior Are the Church. It matters NOT to whom some modern philosopher claims that each book is written to, spiritually speaking. No matter whom the letter was addressed to, it's purpose goes way beyond our reasoning. Each book has fresh insights into all facets of an individual's life, making them more knowledgeable in spiritual matters. As each child of GOD grows, they glean what the Holy Spirit lays upon their hearts as they read this WORD! Man 'doctrinates'. Man divides, confuses, dictates and chooses certain scriptures to back up opinions. The modern day 'church' can learn much from the book of Ruth (for example) although the very name of GOD/Jesus/Holy Spirit is never mentioned! To those who sit and argue whether the letters of Paul are 'better' for doctrinal purposes and the 1st four books of the New Testament are meant for this or that, I would say "Get a LIFE" and take the entire dosage of this awesome powerful Biblical medicine and let it rejuvenate your mind, body and soul!

 

[John146]

I don't understand the division here. The Entire BIBLE...front to back...is for every person, every lost soul, every saved soul, every Christ follower, every non-believer. It is an anointed Holy Spirit inspired guidebook, road map, and living Word, unlike any book ever published. Each human being can find within it's pages inspirational gems of hope, historical facts, personal drama, and Supernatural events that have shaped our world. Individuals that receive and digest this WORD and have Jesus Christ as their Savior Are the Church. It matters NOT to whom some modern philosopher claims that each book is written to, spiritually speaking. No matter whom the letter was addressed to, it's purpose goes way beyond our reasoning. Each book has fresh insights into all facets of an individual's life, making them more knowledgeable in spiritual matters. As each child of GOD grows, they glean what the Holy Spirit lays upon their hearts as they read this WORD! Man 'doctrinates'. Man divides, confuses, dictates and chooses certain scriptures to back up opinions. The modern day 'church' can learn much from the book of Ruth (for example) although the very name of GOD/Jesus/Holy Spirit is never mentioned! To those who sit and argue whether the letters of Paul are 'better' for doctrinal purposes and the 1st four books of the New Testament are meant for this or that, I would say "Get a LIFE" and take the entire dosage of this awesome powerful Biblical medicine and let it rejuvenate your mind, body and soul!

I totally agree with all you said, great testimony. I think you're misunderstanding what I mean. All Scripture is for us to read and study and learn from, but are we to literally obey all Scripture? When the Lord said to put the lamb's blood on the doorposts to be saved, did you literally carry out that command? Of course not, you know that command is not to us, but for us to read and study.

 

[Is]

Looks like you are somewhat read up on anti-dispensational dogma.
But your ad hominem against Darby by using Irving and McDonald is unproven.
Sticking to Scriptural proof of what you actually believe rather than only attacking the stance of another will give you more mileage...but it may also open your view to attacks as well, but at least you will be more credible.

The time frame for Margaret McDonald is 1832.

Joseph Mede (1586-1638) was a premillennialist.

There are also others before Mede, you would think people would have the brains to find this out.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

I totally agree with all you said, great testimony. I think you're misunderstanding what I mean. All Scripture is for us to read and study and learn from, but are we to literally obey all Scripture? When the Lord said to put the lamb's blood on the doorposts to be saved, did you literally carry out that command? Of course not, you know that command is not to us, but for us to read and study.

This a good post. It makes me think like how the Passover lamb is somewhat an OT foreshadowing of Jesus. Not saying that we should be painting our door posts with literal blood, but like how Jesus is mentioned as a lamb in parts of the NT and how his blood is a covering of sins.

 

[John146]

This a good post. It makes me think like how the Passover lamb is somewhat an OT foreshadowing of Jesus. Not saying that we should be painting our door posts with literal blood, but like how Jesus is mentioned as a lamb in parts of the NT and how his blood is a covering of sins.

And not any lamb, they were to pick the lamb without spot or blemish. The sinless life of Jesus made Him to be our lamb without spot or blemish.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

And not any lamb, they were to pick the lamb without spot or blemish. The sinless life of Jesus made Him to be our lamb without spot or blemish.

Good point indeed didn't really consider that part. Reminds me how I like what seems like small details, easy to be overlooked, that are actually like very intriguing and major points. I suppose part of the fun in reading the Bible multiple times and studying and discussing with others. Praise Jesus, may you all be greatly loved, this a good topic indeed to read along with. Good stuff for the pondering and learning.

 

[JaumeJ]

No one who reads the Word with understanding would ever imply or say there is another gospel, other than that given by Jesus Christ........

 

[John146]

No one who reads the Word with understanding would ever imply or say there is another gospel, other than that given by Jesus Christ........

There's only one gospel that saves the soul and that is the good news, the gospel of Jesus Christ. Are there not other good news messages in the Bible? of course

 

[JaumeJ]

As Paul teaches in the Word, if anyone comes preaching another "gospel" let him be accused.

Knw this, there is only one Good new in the Word..... any other "gospel or good news" as you put it would be snake oil.

There's only one gospel that saves the soul and that is the good news, the gospel of Jesus Christ. Are there not other good news messages in the Bible? of course

 

[DP]

If it's so obvious, then answer the question. What you're proposing is that the disciples taught the death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins when they had no clue what that was.

Luke 18:31-33, "Then he took [unto him] the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on; And they shall scourge [him], and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again(1 Corinthians 15:3-4, right?)...And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken."

e Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
Luke 24:6-11...after the resurrection Mary Magdalene and others told the disciples that Jesus was handed over to be crucified and that He has risen, verse 11, "And their words seemed to them as idle tales, and they believed them not."

Prior to the cross, the disciples had no understanding of the cross of Jesus Christ. They knew nothing about it. Certainly, the disciples did not preach something they did not understand and thought it was an idle tale. The significance of the cross could not be revealed to anyone until after the cross. If the message of the cross were not hidden, Satan would have tried to keep it from happening, instead, he initiated it to have victory over the seed.

I already covered your question in a previous post when I showed how the event of Christ's crucifixion was actually recorded first in the OT prophets (Ps.22). Another short view occurs in the Book of Isaiah. The Pharisees and scribes were blinded to that event, even though it was recorded in the OT first. Judah's 70 years captivity to Babylon and the Jew's creating their traditions and the Babylonian Talmud sage writings caused part of that confusion. The other part was the blindness put upon them by God (see Rom.11). Even the mark God told the angels of Ezekiel 9 to put upon all those who sigh in Jerusalem for the abominations going on so they would be saved involves the last Hebrew letter which in paleo-Hebrew characters was made as a cross (X). Jesus was first declared and written of in the OT, only the English version of His name (Jesus) was not used.

Even in Hebrews 7, Apostle Paul declares Jesus as the Mechelzidek that met Abraham, and offered him "bread and wine" which is about the New Covenant promise by Faith which God first gave to Abraham and counted Abraham's belief as righteousness (Gal.3). Abraham simply didn't get to live to the time of Christ's 1st coming, but the OT Scriptures shows he knew about Christ. When Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of Christ's 2nd coming with ten thousands of His saints per the Book of Jude, that also shows Enoch knew about Christ Jesus.

Those things you cannot just throw away involving the OT patriarchs, prophets, nor the NT Apostles, for Paul declared the foundation of the Church in Ephesians 2 as being made up of the prophets, the Apostles, with Jesus as The Head Cornerstone. Since you want to heed especially what Paul taught in his Epistles, then that shows you MUST also heed what came before him that he declared, even from the OT Books. And Paul quoted often from the OT Books to show these things had always been written, only that it was not yet time for many of them to be revealed to the majority until they were fulfilled.

 

[DP]

And not any lamb, they were to pick the lamb without spot or blemish. The sinless life of Jesus made Him to be our lamb without spot or blemish.

More than that. God The Father sent His Son, God The Son in the flesh to die on the cross. The Spirit in Christ Jesus never died upon the cross, otherwise He would not have defeated the devil and death. Jesus is God with us per Matt.1:23, which is the meaning of His Name Immanuel from the Book of Isaiah.

 

[DP]

You act like believers such as myself lock ourselves into a padded room with darby demons and take psychedelic drugs to heighten our delusion.

Actually, that's a pretty good assessment, excepting the psychedelic drugs part. The traditions of men have become your psychedelic drugs, which is why Apostle Paul showed from the OT prophets the deceived are like those who are drunken, but not on wine.

Isa 29:9-10
9 Stay yourselves, and wonder; cry ye out, and cry: they are drunken, but not with wine; they stagger, but not with strong drink.


10 For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath He covered.
KJV