GREASY GRACE?

[gb9]

I understand your beliefs. The thing I think all of us as Christians can agree about is that Christ has done so much for us, and has loved us with this great love- that we should walk worthy of the Lord. I heard a wise man say that if we can fellowship around the person of Jesus, then we can have communion one with another. For the same Lord has saved us. I think the problem is we as OSAS believers think that people who believe you can lose your salvation are not resting in Christ, not really accessing His love. It is total and complete- 100% unconditional. We rely on Him to keep us saved because we know how weak we are. That isn't a license to sin, just the opposite. It makes it that much more terrible when we DO sin against such great love and forgiveness.

I think too, that people who believe you can lose your salvation believe those of us who are secure are misusing the Lord, not valuing His sacrifice adequately because it seems we are lax and lazy Christians. I can not completely deny this in my own life. I am not what I want to be. Hence the verse in my signature. I would leave the conversation with this verse:

I John 3:11 "For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another."

We can disagree about doctrine, but we are siblings in the Lord. God bless you. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

very well explained. now, hopefully, we could agree with it. both " sides " .

 

[Cee]

If i stole something would i be guilty of sin?

Yes, but it wouldn't make me a sinner.
Just like my righteous acts didn't make me righteous.

It's the same anytime we do something not out of love or faith. That's the point. Jesus didn't minimize sin. He said those who don't love each other don't love Him.

As far as keeping Jesus words? We first believe in Him like He commanded. And then we follow Him which is loving each other. Having relationship with the Father and Holy Spirit like He demonstrated.

I appreciate the time you took on this one let me address some things

John 12:47 If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.

Well then who judges the one who doesn't keep Jesus' words?

Let's look at the verses before this one:

44And Jesus cried out and said, “Whoever believes in me, believes not in me but in him who sent me. 45And whoever sees me sees him who sent me. 46I have come into the world as light, so that whoever believes in me may not remain in darkness.

I would understand it this way cee Believing in Jesus, includes believing His words as He stated His words.

im not sure why you stopped with the first verse, went back when He said this

John 12:47-50 "And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48He that rejecteth me, and RECEIVETH NOT MY WORDS, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, THE SAME SHALL JUDGE HIM in the last day. 49For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I SHOULD SAY, and what I SHOULD SPEAK. 50And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak."

Now take a look at dueteronomy 18:15-19 "The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; 16According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not. 17And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. 18I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him." ( acts 3, and acts 7 confirm this is Jesus)

do you see How moses wrote of Jesus and that Jesus is that promised prophet that v 19 states those who will not accept His words God will require it of Him? the Law of moses is filled with things just Like this that harmonize with the 4 gospels, and with pauls epistles and peters epistles, Jesus , peter and paul all speak of what is written in the prophets about the Christ to come. Paul actually says " I have spoken nothing but what the prophets and moses said would happen...

The prophets wrote so very much concerning Jesus, His death and resurrection, The authority of His word forever, immutable, unchangable, they wrote Much about the gentiles fully included in the new covenant which the Christ would bring, all the way up to malichi the last prophetic book in the bible where chapter 3 points to john the baptist and Jesus who would bring the covenant. The prophets and Law are all a foreshadow of Jesus the Christ.

I do disagree with some things in your post, which i feel is fine with you and is also with me. I think rather than decyphering we Just accept.

to reject His words, is to reject Gods commandment Given through Jesus those Given through Jesus are eternal and all authority, which is why rejecting His words ( teachings, principles, commands) are the Judge, thoise accepted are Life, those rejected are Judgement. to me its pretty simple on that one, But i am not confined to a few of pauls epistles for knowledge of Jesus, im coming from the prophets Long beforehand, the apostles after, and most importantly Jesus Own Words which are the very words God sent of the Kingdom of God.

as many grace teachers say " Jesus taught Law and only some of His words are meant for the church." this is absolutely not true. and is the very issue, really the ONLY issue I have with extreme Grace, because it leads to ommission of the truth that is only in Jesus. Jesus did not teach the Law of moses. Jesus brought the ministry ofthe new covenant promised for ages before by the prophets.

Jesus said these things

Luke 16:16 "The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it."

Luke 4:43 "And he said unto them, I must preach the kingdom of God to other cities also: for therefore am I sent."

Matthew 4:23 "And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people."

Mark 1:14-15 "Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15And saying, The TIME IS FULFILLED, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel."

there are others saying this also from the 4 gospels. I believe fully God Gave enough Grace that all can be saved. But Faith in Jesus is required, we have to accept the gospel that Jesus brought because the bible is testifying from start to finish, that Jesus is the One to hear and obey. Im thankful for Gods grace But when grace changes the gospel Given By Jesus, its not Gods grace.


i have a question for you off this topic.

hypothetically, say tomorrow you went and stole something, would you be guilty of sin ?

 

[followjesus]

I understand your beliefs. The thing I think all of us as Christians can agree about is that Christ has done so much for us, and has loved us with this great love- that we should walk worthy of the Lord. I heard a wise man say that if we can fellowship around the person of Jesus, then we can have communion one with another. For the same Lord has saved us. I think the problem is we as OSAS believers think that people who believe you can lose your salvation are not resting in Christ, not really accessing His love. It is total and complete- 100% unconditional. We rely on Him to keep us saved because we know how weak we are. That isn't a license to sin, just the opposite. It makes it that much more terrible when we DO sin against such great love and forgiveness.

I think too, that people who believe you can lose your salvation believe those of us who are secure are misusing the Lord, not valuing His sacrifice adequately because it seems we are lax and lazy Christians. I can not completely deny this in my own life. I am not what I want to be. Hence the verse in my signature. I would leave the conversation with this verse:

I John 3:11 "For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another."

We can disagree about doctrine, but we are siblings in the Lord. God bless you. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

certainly agree with most of what you said Here all of the Love stuff certainly. God bless and have a very merry CHRISTmas also !! Thats a good verse !

and honestly i dont know how you guys live nor have i ever pretended to know or accused you of not living right or misusing the Lord. thats between each person and the Lord. All ive ever spoken about is doctrine that causes us to see clear scripture, and omit it because another scripture says something else. when doctrine is complete it should reconcile that all is understood clearly. i did enjoy the discussion and am really glad it went respectfully, and as i said to cee, often when a disagreement is evident, Later on God will make seeds grow n both parties to the ends of fuller knowledge of Jesus Christ.<<<<

ill leave you with a great one from Paul

1 corinthians 2 :9 "But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him."

 

[followjesus]

If i stole something would i be guilty of sin?

Yes, but it wouldn't make me a sinner.
Just like my righteous acts didn't make me righteous.

It's the same anytime we do something not out of love or faith. That's the point. Jesus didn't minimize sin. He said those who don't love each other don't love Him.

As far as keeping Jesus words? We first believe in Him like He commanded. And then we follow Him which is loving each other. Having relationship with the Father and Holy Spirit like He demonstrated.

Okay cee, i appreciate the conversation and the time and knowledge you shared. God bless you bro. Have a blessed and merry Christmas !

this should be agreeable....

john 14:2-3 "In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."

 

[dcontroversal]

In the grace you are, having been saved out of faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works lest any man boast.....

I am sorry...I do not see the word greasy connected to grace....I do see positioning associated with grace, based upon faith void of any works or human merit....and that fact that it is a gift GIVEN by GOD.......

Those who deny grace...boast all the day long of their righteous deeds and sinless lives......good luck with that!

 

[notuptome]

If i stole something would i be guilty of sin?

Yes, but it wouldn't make me a sinner.
Just like my righteous acts didn't make me righteous.

It's the same anytime we do something not out of love or faith. That's the point. Jesus didn't minimize sin. He said those who don't love each other don't love Him.

As far as keeping Jesus words? We first believe in Him like He commanded. And then we follow Him which is loving each other. Having relationship with the Father and Holy Spirit like He demonstrated.

Wow. Of course sinning makes you a sinner. You cannot do acts of righteousness because you are not righteous. You cannot love apart from Christ. You sin because you are a sinner. Only by the imputation of the righteousness of Christ are you made righteous.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[followjesus]

Wow. Of course sinning makes you a sinner. You cannot do acts of righteousness because you are not righteous. You cannot love apart from Christ. You sin because you are a sinner. Only by the imputation of the righteousness of Christ are you made righteous.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

" I am the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus" <<<<can a person say this and continue living as a sinner? or do we just say were righteous and live as we will?

 

[88]

It up to you... We have to choose to serve the Lord---if He wanted robots---He probably would have made Swartzenagger (The Terminator)...Grace and Peace

 

[Miri]

Is it just me or does anyone else think we all must be in big trouble if
christians can't agree on what being saved means, grace and salvation.

How can we spread the gospel if we disagree on what these things mean.

Maybe the website needs renaming to Christian I dunno.

Its rather sad isn't it. I wonder what Jesus thinks.

 

[gb9]

Is it just me or does anyone else think we all must be in big trouble if
christians can't agree on what being saved means, grace and salvation.

How can we spread the gospel if we disagree on what these things mean.

Maybe the website needs renaming to Christian I dunno.

Its rather sad isn't it. I wonder what Jesus thinks.

I've had those thoughts many times. it truly is sad that we cannot agree on this. good points you made.