Hailstones and Earthquakes

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Nebuchadnezzer

Nebuchadnezzer

Well-known member
#41
Feb 8, 2019
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#41
Nebuchadnezzer said:
Are hailstones and earthquakes in Revelation to be taken literally or might they be metaphors for something else?
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jb said:
Literally!
To take them any other way is to twist Scripture!
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So I just found this:

Ezekiel 21:9-10 in ESV
“A sword, a sword is sharpened and also polished, sharpened for slaughter, polished to flash like lightning!

Then I compared to:
Revelation 16:18
And there were flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, and a great earthquake such as there had never been since man was on the earth, so great was that earthquake.


We see in Ezekiel that God uses this simile, "polished to flash like lightning!", to give description to an attribute of the sword. And this is what Ezekiel was prophesying about in Ezekiel 21, that God was bringing judgement upon Israel and the nations around her by the sword (aka war, invasion, conquest).

We then see in Revelation that God uses the same phrase, "flashes of lightning", to give description to what the seventh bowl of wrath will be like. The seventh bowl of wrath also speaks of judgement by the sword (aka war, invasion, conquest).

Conclusion: Ezekiel provides vital clues, which are necessary for correctly interpreting some of the prophesies in Revelation.
 
JeremiahsCup

JeremiahsCup

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#42
Feb 1, 2020
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#42
Yes it will literally happen.

No it has not happened yet, but all the world will know when it does.
 
Nebuchadnezzer

Nebuchadnezzer

Well-known member
#43
Feb 8, 2019
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#43
JeremiahsCup said:
Yes it will literally happen.

No it has not happened yet,
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I like how you are so certain that no scriptural basis need be provided.

JeremiahsCup said:
but all the world will know when it does.
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But most don't know and understand that Jesus is King. So if they don't know or understand that, how would they all know and understand "end times" prophesy?
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#44
Jan 17, 2020
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#44
Nebuchadnezzer said:
Are hailstones and earthquakes in Revelation to be taken literally or might they be metaphors for something else?
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Scripture mentions God's four sore Judgements. They are defined in the book of Revelation. And defined several places in the OT.

“I looked, and there before me was a pale horse. Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill people by war, by starvation, by disease, and by the wild animals of the earth.” Revelation 6:8 (NCV)

If we study all that plagues the human race, it seems all but accidents fall into one of these four categories. And we know God controls accidents too. The wild beasts seem far removed unless we include the transmission of disease from animals to humans. Like bats and rats spreading plagues. War is unending today. Famine hangs in a fragile balance.
 
JeremiahsCup

JeremiahsCup

Banned
#45
Feb 1, 2020
725
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#45
Nebuchadnezzer said:
I like how you are so certain that no scriptural basis need be provided.



But most don't know and understand that Jesus is King. So if they don't know or understand that, how would they all know and understand "end times" prophesy?
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Oh they'll understand in that day even though indeed many will hate it. Every knee shall bow!
 
G

garee

Banned
#46
Mar 28, 2016
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#46
Dino246 said:
Do you need to know whether the wind and rain were literal before grasping that Ezekiel is talking about the destruction of Jerusalem? No. There is plenty of information to frame the picture and have a general sense of the events portrayed without understanding every detail.


Why can't they be both? God uses natural means of destruction as well as armies when He wages war.
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Yes without parables Christ spoke not. The sign follows the prophecy. Its the end of the world .The last day

Prophecy for those who believe. Signs the end for those who rebel against the new tongue.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#47
Jun 30, 2015
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#47
garee said:
Yes without parables Christ spoke not. The sign follows the prophecy. Its the end of the world .The last day

Prophecy for those who believe. Signs the end for those who rebel against the new tongue.
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I find it truly baffling that you continue to post these errors after being corrected so many times.
 
Nebuchadnezzer

Nebuchadnezzer

Well-known member
#48
Feb 8, 2019
1,134
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#48
garee said:
Yes without parables Christ spoke not. The sign follows the prophecy. Its the end of the world .The last day

Prophecy for those who believe. Signs the end for those who rebel against the new tongue.
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Let's see Garee if we are on a similar page.

Jesus spoke plainly to the priests and leaders, and the people earlier in his ministry and they wanted to pick up stones and stone him. So when he spoke plainly those who could hear refused to hear.
Jesus then spoke in parables (He veiled his message) so that those who refused to hear would no longer hear. But still those who wanted to hear still heard.

Now is this why Revelation is also veiled?

I am thinking that Revelation is not written so that those who don't believe will understand.
I am thinking that Revelation is written so that those who do believe might understand. At least enough to help guide and navigate themselves through the trials, the deceptions, the schemes of the devil... that they will face while on this earth.

What do you think?
 
G

garee

Banned
#49
Mar 28, 2016
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#49
Nebuchadnezzer said:
Let's see Garee if we are on a similar page.

Jesus spoke plainly to the priests and leaders, and the people earlier in his ministry and they wanted to pick up stones and stone him. So when he spoke plainly those who could hear refused to hear.
Jesus then spoke in parables (He veiled his message) so that those who refused to hear would no longer hear. But still those who wanted to hear still heard.

Now is this why Revelation is also veiled?

I am thinking that Revelation is not written so that those who don't believe will understand.
I am thinking that Revelation is written so that those who do believe might understand. At least enough to help guide and navigate themselves through the trials, the deceptions, the schemes of the devil... that they will face while on this earth.

What do you think?
Click to expand...
 
G

garee

Banned
#50
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
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113
#50
Nebuchadnezzer said:
Let's see Garee if we are on a similar page.

Jesus spoke plainly to the priests and leaders, and the people earlier in his ministry and they wanted to pick up stones and stone him. So when he spoke plainly those who could hear refused to hear.
Jesus then spoke in parables (He veiled his message) so that those who refused to hear would no longer hear. But still those who wanted to hear still heard.

Now is this why Revelation is also veiled?

I am thinking that Revelation is not written so that those who don't believe will understand.
I am thinking that Revelation is written so that those who do believe might understand. At least enough to help guide and navigate themselves through the trials, the deceptions, the schemes of the devil... that they will face while on this earth.

What do you think?
Click to expand...
Not sure what speaking plainly means to you?.

It would seem to be he gave the believers His understanding seeing without parable he spoke not hiding the gospel understanding from natural unconverted mankind . Un believers in whom there is no faith are is not given a desire to search out the unseen language by seeking his approval according to the commandment to study . Searching out the understanding does not make the literal historical without effect . The literal is the temporal by which a person can seek the unseen understanding .That principle for walking by faith is shown below it reads. . .

Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Romans 1:19-20

It would seem to be supported by the prescription found in 2 Corinthians 4:18 a tool used to rightly divide parables.

This is by taking the things seen the temporal used and comparing them to the unseen eternal .

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

In the last days the father has spoken to us through His Son . His life in that way is a living parable. When he would move he would use that which he performed as a parable. Without parables he spoke not.

He gave them that had a interest the understanding of in a little while .

He reveals the meaning of the parable then again informs us without parables/proverbs he spoke not . Parables are used to teach us how to walk by faith the unseen eternal


Then said some of his disciples among themselves, What is this that he saith unto us, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me: and, Because I go to the Father?And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you. Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full. These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.John 16: 22-25


Revelation as the signified language follows the same procedure for finding the unseen understanding. Rightly dividing the parables. .
Revelation 20 is loaded with metaphors that must be looked at through the prescription found in 2 Corinthians 4:18 also spoken on in Romans 1. Mixing the literal with the unseen spiritual (mixing faith, hearing God )
 
Nebuchadnezzer

Nebuchadnezzer

Well-known member
#51
Feb 8, 2019
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#51
garee said:
Not sure what speaking plainly means to you?.
Click to expand...
John 8:56-59
Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.” 57 So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” 58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” 59 So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.

Here Jesus spoke without parable. He spoke plainly. They knew what Jesus was talking about. That he was saying that he was the "I am". Jesus plainly told them he was God. It is quoted in scripture. But, they rejected what he said and in fact picked up stones to throw at him.
 
G

garee

Banned
#52
Mar 28, 2016
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#52
Nebuchadnezzer said:
John 8:56-59
Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.” 57 So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” 58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” 59 So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.

Here Jesus spoke without parable. He spoke plainly. They knew what Jesus was talking about. That he was saying that he was the "I am". Jesus plainly told them he was God. It is quoted in scripture. But, they rejected what he said and in fact picked up stones to throw at him.
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Hi thanks good example.

Yes, as part of the living parable he hid himself. Jesus in whom the father spoke through in these last days was moved by the father . . out of the abomination of desolation. . The temple that was standing in the Holy Place of faith. .

The name given to Abraham was to represent our Father not seen. the word meaning; "the Father of many nations all the nations". .

Moving Jesus out of a temple made with corrupted hands . On several occasions as a parable Jesus would hide or say.. what if you do not see me any more. A gains to teach us how to walk by faith. He is the teacher. And in that way he says to call no man teacher on earth just as we are to call no man father. One is in heaven

Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.John 8:59

It was not his time or place to offer his suffering as a labor of thier love working as one. And the work propmised of Him and the father was not after the desires of sinful hands. It is the work of the father and son that bring us the peace of God.

Other place use what could be called peek a boo parable. Now you see me now you do not. When Jesus was teaching his disciples as to how and what it means to mix faith the unseen . . .the recipe for rest in our works yoked with Christ .

Many who did not mix faith in what they heard were offended by the parable other like Peter acknowledge the unseen understanding .

The hard saying below was not hard to understand by those given faith .They that did believe desired to hear it . Unlike those who refused as in who would desire to. who can hear it

Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? John 6:60 -62

Out of sight the pagan form or region like those who walked away in unbelief (no faith) or walk by faith according to God not seen?
 
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