Has a lie crept in to our bible Does God allow demons to torment people

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Is it possible that the lies of satan have tricked people in our bible, about how God is in person

  • yes

    Votes: 3 20.0%
  • no

    Votes: 10 66.7%
  • not sure

    Votes: 2 13.3%
  • maybe

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    15

de-emerald

Well-known member
May 8, 2021
1,214
485
83
Do you believe the words of the scribes and Jews saying Jesus works with Demons or do you believe Jesus saying he doesnt work with demons ?...


@Pilgrimshope @JaumeJ @1ofthem @Absolutely @AandW @Mem @Dino246 @Magenta @Lucy-Pevensie @glen55 @Gideon300 @Runningman @Ahwatukee @tourist. @Blade @Rolly @Nehemiah6 @presidente @posthuman @Kidron @azsheepdog @DrGuyPhD @Icedaisey @GRACE_ambassador


hi again all you beautiful christians :) so i thought i would a have break from this some what heated discussion where by the words of Jesus have been denied over and over again. So this scriptures repersents the jewish people telling yet more lies and there scribes writing theese lies, if you will read it you will clearly see Jesus being accused of working with a demon. Now i dont know about you Guys but could you call this God inspired or from the holy spirit or true, ? this looks like an outright lie to me, what do you all think ? Dont forget Jesus told the Jews that there father was of the devil. (ie the Jews where being decieved by demons as to the scribes.
luke:22-32
Jesus Is Accused of Working with a demon for doing good works.


22 Then some people brought Yeshua a man possessed by a demon. The demon made the man blind and unable to talk. Yeshua cured him so that he could talk and see.

23 The crowds were all amazed and said, “Can this man be the Son of David?” 24 When the Pharisees heard this, they said, “This man can force demons out of people only with the help of Beelzebul, the ruler of demons.”

25 Since Yeshua knew what they were thinking, he said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself is ruined. And every city or household divided against itself will not last. 26 If Satan forces Satan out, he is divided against himself. How, then, can his kingdom last? 27 If I force demons out of people with the help of Beelzebul, who helps your followers force them out? That’s why they will be your judges. 28 But if I force demons out with the help of God’s Spirit, then the kingdom of God has come to you. 29 How can anyone go into a strong man’s house and steal his property? First he must tie up the strong man. Then he can go through his house and steal his property.

30 “Whoever isn’t with me is against me. Whoever doesn’t gather with me scatters. 31 So I can guarantee that people will be forgiven for any sin or cursing. However, cursing the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven. But whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven in this world or the next.


John 8:49
Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me

here is Jesus well and truly saying i am not a devil and i dont work with them but yet the jews here where claiming other wise.
Not only that But Jesus is indicating here that demons (demons are not from heaven.)

Ok so would it be fair to now add theese scriptures what Jesus spoke which would go with this scripture.
mathew 5:20
For I say unto you that unless your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.

Now secondly should we belief this scripture or should we believe Jesus ?

Do you believe the words of the scribes and Jews saying Jesus works with Demons or do you believe Jesus saying he doesnt work with demons ?...
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
3,069
1,555
113
Ok so would it be fair to now add theese scriptures what Jesus spoke which would go with this scripture.
mathew 5:20
For I say unto you that unless your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.

Now secondly should we belief this scripture or should we believe Jesus ?

Do you believe the words of the scribes and Jews saying Jesus works with Demons or do you believe Jesus saying he doesnt work with demons ?...
Good morning De-emerald. I don't get where you are coming from?

It is the whole story being told here. That is what the Pharisees thought and yes, they were wrong. Scripture even proves them wrong right after that. It is just telling the whole story. The complete scripture tells the true story. So I don't get the point you are trying to make?
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
9,605
2,434
113
Do you believe the words of the scribes and Jews saying Jesus works with Demons or do you believe Jesus saying he doesnt work with demons ?...


@Pilgrimshope @JaumeJ @1ofthem @Absolutely @AandW @Mem @Dino246 @Magenta @Lucy-Pevensie @glen55 @Gideon300 @Runningman @Ahwatukee @tourist. @Blade @Rolly @Nehemiah6 @presidente @posthuman @Kidron @azsheepdog @DrGuyPhD @Icedaisey @GRACE_ambassador


hi again all you beautiful christians :) so i thought i would a have break from this some what heated discussion where by the words of Jesus have been denied over and over again. So this scriptures repersents the jewish people telling yet more lies and there scribes writing theese lies, if you will read it you will clearly see Jesus being accused of working with a demon. Now i dont know about you Guys but could you call this God inspired or from the holy spirit or true, ? this looks like an outright lie to me, what do you all think ? Dont forget Jesus told the Jews that there father was of the devil. (ie the Jews where being decieved by demons as to the scribes.
luke:22-32
Jesus Is Accused of Working with a demon for doing good works.


22 Then some people brought Yeshua a man possessed by a demon. The demon made the man blind and unable to talk. Yeshua cured him so that he could talk and see.

23 The crowds were all amazed and said, “Can this man be the Son of David?” 24 When the Pharisees heard this, they said, “This man can force demons out of people only with the help of Beelzebul, the ruler of demons.”

25 Since Yeshua knew what they were thinking, he said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself is ruined. And every city or household divided against itself will not last. 26 If Satan forces Satan out, he is divided against himself. How, then, can his kingdom last? 27 If I force demons out of people with the help of Beelzebul, who helps your followers force them out? That’s why they will be your judges. 28 But if I force demons out with the help of God’s Spirit, then the kingdom of God has come to you. 29 How can anyone go into a strong man’s house and steal his property? First he must tie up the strong man. Then he can go through his house and steal his property.

30 “Whoever isn’t with me is against me. Whoever doesn’t gather with me scatters. 31 So I can guarantee that people will be forgiven for any sin or cursing. However, cursing the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven. But whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven in this world or the next.


John 8:49
Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me

here is Jesus well and truly saying i am not a devil and i dont work with them but yet the jews here where claiming other wise.
Not only that But Jesus is indicating here that demons (demons are not from heaven.)

Ok so would it be fair to now add theese scriptures what Jesus spoke which would go with this scripture.
mathew 5:20
For I say unto you that unless your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.

Now secondly should we belief this scripture or should we believe Jesus ?

Do you believe the words of the scribes and Jews saying Jesus works with Demons or do you believe Jesus saying he doesnt work with demons ?...
He picked Judas who he knew was a devil to walk with him in ministry.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
9,605
2,434
113
there is much pain in this life.
However we were shown how to handle it and thump it off like we would a fly.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
1,288
868
113
Nope people kill them selfs because they believe the lies of the antichrist.(believing it as come from God)
then the anti christ takes over there mind. Youve got it the other way round. which gives power to Satan, which is what he wants you to believe, that God has enpowered him to be the tempter, thus forcing us to unknowingly worshipping the beast. Thats about it where by we are unknowingly worshiping the beast in his wierd way of his reasoning, he then puts his mark upon us, he forces the wrong belief and our worship by combining Good with evil.
This is why people believe the lies of the antichrist:
2 Thessalonians 2:10-12
…and with every wicked deception directed against those who are perishing, because they refused the love of the truth that would have saved them. For this reason God will send them a powerful delusion so that they believe the lie, in order that judgment may come upon all who have disbelieved the truth and delighted in wickedness.…
 

de-emerald

Well-known member
May 8, 2021
1,214
485
83
Good morning De-emerald. I don't get where you are coming from?

It is the whole story being told here. That is what the Pharisees thought and yes, they were wrong. Scripture even proves them wrong right after that. It is just telling the whole story. The complete scripture tells the true story. So I don't get the point you are trying to make?
Basically my friend,
Jesus is a pure loving spirit, and basically demons are pure hating spirit that enjoy anything evil. I really would not listen to anyone ever that suggests that Jesus and demons work together. so far 9 people have voted in this thread suggesting that they do and resort to calling me a heretic for disagreeing with them. and really they need to give there head a wobble, i would be weary of anyone prepared to argue in great lenght that they do work together and defend demons.. i would seariously be wary of who your getting advice of on this thread.

The reality is demons are pure evil. we need Jesus to keep us protected from them.
we cant believe he would work with them. blessings to you. may our lord bless you and keep you,
 

SomeDisciple

Active member
Jul 4, 2021
241
125
43
:rolleyes:This is so ridiculous. Jesus cast out devils because demons are subject to god. Just like Satan presented himself to God in the book of Job... because devils are still subject to and accountable to God, even though they are in rebellion.
Jesus could have easily cast Satan out of Judas, but he didn't. He allowed Satan to have him, because he was allowing himself to be betrayed in accordance with God's plan.
If you deny Jesus, and act out in rebellion against God in your life, he will let the devils take you too, until you get smart and decide to call on the name of the Lord.
So yeah... God lets devils do things to accomplish his purposes. He uses them, just like God used Pharoh to show forth his own glory. How is that a problem? Nobody is defending devils, or saying that God and Satan are really homeboys, working together in love and friendship- nobody is saying that, that's stupid. It's using an enemy to accomplish his purpose.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
18,742
10,402
113
so far 9 people have voted in this thread suggesting that they do and resort to calling me a heretic for disagreeing with them.
Again, you are called a heretic for making heretical statements.

i would be weary of anyone prepared to argue in great lenght that they do work together and defend demons.. i would seariously be wary of who your getting advice of on this thread.
It seems that you are wary of the advice you're receiving, because you are rejecting sound biblical answers to your questions.

The reality is demons are pure evil.
Where is that in Scripture?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
38,055
14,992
113
Yes.
Did he allow Satan to kill the wife and children of faithful Job just to win a wager as to the strength of Job's faithfulness? When Sovereign God is Omniscient, the answer in his word is, yes.
Where is the fate of Job's wife recorded in Scripture? Thank you in advance...
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
18,742
10,402
113
This is why people believe the lies of the antichrist:
2 Thessalonians 2:10-12
…and with every wicked deception directed against those who are perishing, because they refused the love of the truth that would have saved them. For this reason God will send them a powerful delusion so that they believe the lie, in order that judgment may come upon all who have disbelieved the truth and delighted in wickedness.…
I would encourage you to read that verse through carefully. The cause is not in the part you emphasized.
 

Ogom

Active member
Aug 22, 2020
277
79
28
ogom.co
Do you believe the words of the scribes and Jews saying Jesus works with Demons or do you believe Jesus saying he doesnt work with demons ?...


@Pilgrimshope @JaumeJ @1ofthem @Absolutely @AandW @Mem @Dino246 @Magenta @Lucy-Pevensie @glen55 @Gideon300 @Runningman @Ahwatukee @tourist. @Blade @Rolly @Nehemiah6 @presidente @posthuman @Kidron @azsheepdog @DrGuyPhD @Icedaisey @GRACE_ambassador


hi again all you beautiful christians :) so i thought i would a have break from this some what heated discussion where by the words of Jesus have been denied over and over again. So this scriptures repersents the jewish people telling yet more lies and there scribes writing theese lies, if you will read it you will clearly see Jesus being accused of working with a demon. Now i dont know about you Guys but could you call this God inspired or from the holy spirit or true, ? this looks like an outright lie to me, what do you all think ? Dont forget Jesus told the Jews that there father was of the devil. (ie the Jews where being decieved by demons as to the scribes.
luke:22-32
Jesus Is Accused of Working with a demon for doing good works.


22 Then some people brought Yeshua a man possessed by a demon. The demon made the man blind and unable to talk. Yeshua cured him so that he could talk and see.

23 The crowds were all amazed and said, “Can this man be the Son of David?” 24 When the Pharisees heard this, they said, “This man can force demons out of people only with the help of Beelzebul, the ruler of demons.”

25 Since Yeshua knew what they were thinking, he said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself is ruined. And every city or household divided against itself will not last. 26 If Satan forces Satan out, he is divided against himself. How, then, can his kingdom last? 27 If I force demons out of people with the help of Beelzebul, who helps your followers force them out? That’s why they will be your judges. 28 But if I force demons out with the help of God’s Spirit, then the kingdom of God has come to you. 29 How can anyone go into a strong man’s house and steal his property? First he must tie up the strong man. Then he can go through his house and steal his property.

30 “Whoever isn’t with me is against me. Whoever doesn’t gather with me scatters. 31 So I can guarantee that people will be forgiven for any sin or cursing. However, cursing the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven. But whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven in this world or the next.


John 8:49
Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me

here is Jesus well and truly saying i am not a devil and i dont work with them but yet the jews here where claiming other wise.
Not only that But Jesus is indicating here that demons (demons are not from heaven.)

Ok so would it be fair to now add theese scriptures what Jesus spoke which would go with this scripture.
mathew 5:20
For I say unto you that unless your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.

Now secondly should we belief this scripture or should we believe Jesus ?

Do you believe the words of the scribes and Jews saying Jesus works with Demons or do you believe Jesus saying he doesnt work with demons ?...

you may be getting into meat, and not understanding -- a thought. i am having a hard time understanding this myself. it is the Spirit that can teach any true meaning of Scripture. of course the words can help also -- when correct. but maybe ask God the true meaning, not just think about it.... unless you have already? it may take much searching / questioning to understand some things.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
6,777
1,039
113
@Pilgrimshope @JaumeJ @1ofthem @Absolutely @AandW @Mem @Dino246 @Magenta @Lucy-Pevensie @glen55 @Gideon300 @Runningman @Ahwatukee @tourist. @Blade @Rolly @Nehemiah6 @presidente @posthuman @Kidron @azsheepdog @DrGuyPhD @Icedaisey @GRACE_ambassador


hi again all you beautiful christians :) so i thought i would a have break from this some what heated discussion where by the words of Jesus have been denied over and over again. So this scriptures repersents the jewish people telling yet more lies and there scribes writing theese lies, if you will read it you will clearly see Jesus being accused of working with a demon. Now i dont know about you Guys but could you call this God inspired or from the holy spirit or true, ? this looks like an outright lie to me, what do you all think ? Dont forget Jesus told the Jews that there father was of the devil. (ie the Jews where being decieved by demons as to the scribes.
luke:22-32
Jesus Is Accused of Working with a demon for doing good works.


22 Then some people brought Yeshua a man possessed by a demon. The demon made the man blind and unable to talk. Yeshua cured him so that he could talk and see.

23 The crowds were all amazed and said, “Can this man be the Son of David?” 24 When the Pharisees heard this, they said, “This man can force demons out of people only with the help of Beelzebul, the ruler of demons.”

25 Since Yeshua knew what they were thinking, he said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself is ruined. And every city or household divided against itself will not last. 26 If Satan forces Satan out, he is divided against himself. How, then, can his kingdom last? 27 If I force demons out of people with the help of Beelzebul, who helps your followers force them out? That’s why they will be your judges. 28 But if I force demons out with the help of God’s Spirit, then the kingdom of God has come to you. 29 How can anyone go into a strong man’s house and steal his property? First he must tie up the strong man. Then he can go through his house and steal his property.

30 “Whoever isn’t with me is against me. Whoever doesn’t gather with me scatters. 31 So I can guarantee that people will be forgiven for any sin or cursing. However, cursing the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven. But whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven in this world or the next.


John 8:49
Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me

here is Jesus well and truly saying i am not a devil and i dont work with them but yet the jews here where claiming other wise.
Not only that But Jesus is indicating here that demons (demons are not from heaven.)

Ok so would it be fair to now add theese scriptures what Jesus spoke which would go with this scripture.
mathew 5:20
For I say unto you that unless your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.

Now secondly should we belief this scripture or should we believe Jesus ?

Do you believe the words of the scribes and Jews saying Jesus works with Demons or do you believe Jesus saying he doesnt work with demons ?...

How about we read the whole passages and the whole of whichever book you are looking at. Scripture shows us that some of Jesus' opponents accused him of doing His works through unclean spirits. Jesus warned them against the unpardonable sin of speaking against or blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Scripture shows us that Jesus was doing works by the Spirit of God, though He was falsely accused of doing them by a demon.

I have also read that the Talmud says that Jesus was executed as a 'sorcerer', which indicates they acknowledge He had supernatural power, but attributed it to the wrong source.
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
2,971
145
63
I tried to read the OP, but the multitudinous spelling and usage errors made it too irritating to continue. How hard is it to spell correctly? Doesn't anyone use a dictionary anymore? Even the thread title is badly flawed; it's two distinct questions written as one sentence, with no intervening punctuation.

Please, de-emerald, put a little effort into learning to write the English language properly. If nothing else, read your Bible, and emulate what you find written therein.
What a legalistic nitpicker!y!
You blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
Looks like someone needs to clean the inside of their own cup and remove the huge beam in their own eye, that they may see clearly enough to know that being irritated at and belittling another person's grammar and spelling, is not only wrong and trivial on the surface, by not walking in love, but is wicked at heart.
Tactics such as this, are used not only to silence the other person through shame and humiliation, but is also for the purpose of elevating, exalting, or lifting up one's self, to show themselves superior to the one they despise and try to belittle. In this case, it was the intellect.
What's more important here, the subject of the thread, or the poor grammar and spelling, or rather, your arrogant attitude?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
18,742
10,402
113
What a legalistic nitpicker!y!
You blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
Looks like someone needs to clean the inside of their own cup and remove the huge beam in their own eye, that they may see clearly enough to know that being irritated at and belittling another person's grammar and spelling, is not only wrong and trivial on the surface, by not walking in love, but is wicked at heart.
Tactics such as this, are used not only to silence the other person through shame and humiliation, but is also for the purpose of elevating, exalting, or lifting up one's self, to show themselves superior to the one they despise and try to belittle. In this case, it was the intellect.
What's more important here, the subject of the thread, or the poor grammar and spelling, or rather, your arrogant attitude?
I'm so glad you got that off your chest. Carrying around such a load of unwarranted resentment surely must have been hurtful to your soul.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
19,033
5,040
113
Witnessing on campus while studying at the U of Illinois, a young man from the bad part of town used to like hearing me, one on one. He wqas not well educated with a very basic reading level.

One day after a time sharing the Word with him, he came into the student union and told me he was David.

I thought he may have snapped. Then he continued and explained how at one time we are all David. Whense come across our Golietha, all we need do is pick up a stone, and we will defeat Goliathe. I know in the original rendition, David picked u five smooth stones, but all we need is One, that Stone b eing our Savior.

I do not concern myself with people's spelling nor grammar accuity because as children only may we approach our Father. He does not concern Himself with such either... It is the content always.
 

SomeDisciple

Active member
Jul 4, 2021
241
125
43
Where is the fate of Job's wife recorded in Scripture? Thank you in advance...
I was going to say the same thing but technically God did allow it, even if Satan didn't kill her. Although I certainly wouldn't frame the ordeal as a "wager".
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
38,055
14,992
113
I was going to say the same thing but technically God did allow it, even if Satan didn't kill her. Although I certainly wouldn't frame the ordeal as a "wager".
Where is Job's wife's fate recorded in Scripture?

It was claimed Satan killed her. Where is that said? I am looking for chapter and verse...
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
1,294
221
63
Where is Job's wife's fate recorded in Scripture?

It was claimed Satan killed her. Where is that said? I am looking for chapter and verse...
We're blotting out some things and replacing it with other stuff. We can be experts then, see. It's fun. Weeee!