Have you believed the false grace message?

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Ariel82

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2011
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Each group will say they are the representation of what Christ intended.
Now everyone has their own process of elimination and choice, which you have distinctly shown,
so when push comes to shove, you need to decide. The reason I am an evangelical charismatic
because this reflects my position.

But then your group often says we are not a religion, which is just an absurd denial of what
you are, while trying to distinguish yourself from others. It is simpler to just be honest and
declare your own take on things. I have gone in the past to open brethren, anglican, house
church, congregational and baptist churches, and there is little difference.

And to stop divisiveness and this different use of the same words, it helps to just say I follow
this group. It stops confusion and the kind of intended insults without recognising these are
legitimate self contained belief systems. In a broader sense whether you group is called
evangelical or a new phrase will have to be invented to describe your theology I do not know,
but it is obvious you want this divide to be clearly defined, and have great animosity that people
like myself should dare to suggest we worship the same King.
Putting people in groups doesn't really help because most members of any group will not agree on every point of theology. It might give you a basis or beginning point for discussion but I know within my own church we do not have full agreement on all points but the key doctrines are shared and we can fellowship.

You're lumping people into group is abrasive and that causes negative reactions from many here.

Mainly because people dont wanted to be treated as a label but an individual, with hopes dreams and beliefs unique to them.
 

FreeNChrist

Senior Member
Aug 24, 2015
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I have to ask you, what exactly do you mean by "Let go of those reins and let Christ be who He is in you and through you"? Do you mean we turn off our minds and the Holy Spirit just takes control and "autopilots" us through the trial, then gives us back control when done? I though I saw you say we have free will still before, but I can't remember exactly, but do you believe we still have free will after salvation? After I know the answer to this I will have more questions after that, if you don't mind.
I mean let Him reign in your life by giving Him the reins of your life.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Putting people in groups doesn't really help because most members of any group will not agree on every point of theology. It might give you a basis or beginning point for discussion but I know within my own church we do not have full agreement on all points but the key doctrines are shared and we can fellowship.

You're lumping people into group is abrasive and that causes negative reactions from many here.

Mainly because people dont wanted to be treated as a label but an individual, with hopes dreams and beliefs unique to them.
Not sure I know the individuals well enough. It sounds like we all need an international
theological translation filter, so the right words come across in the right way for everyone.

It is funny, when I put it alongside how I am described ... But that is the point.
Nothing we hold to is the "right" perspective, it is ours and someone will be upset.

And trying to understand others, you repeat back what they have said.

My daughter had a teacher called Mrs Rutter but said Wutter. What she heard
herself say was Rutter but she said Wutter. We would then correct her and she
would then say I did say Wutter (meaning Rutter). It was very funny. A lot
of this happens here as well, so good humour is a blessing.

An example of this is saying doing anything for anybody costs nothing. But this
is a tautology. If you are doing nothing it costs nothing, but something always
costs something, but I was corrected that a gift could not be a sacrifice.

I understand the issue, because the word sacrifice is often used as giving up something
you do not want to give up, it is difficult to do, but another meaning is a free will offering
sacrifice to the Lord, which is using the term sacrifice in a different context. It is not
a deeply spiritual issue, but if one word cannot be seen in these two contexts, more difficult
concepts people will struggle over.
 
Mar 2, 2016
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Not sure I know the individuals well enough. It sounds like we all need an international
theological translation filter, so the right words come across in the right way for everyone.

It is funny, when I put it alongside how I am described ... But that is the point.
Nothing we hold to is the "right" perspective, it is ours and someone will be upset.

And trying to understand others, you repeat back what they have said.

My daughter had a teacher called Mrs Rutter but said Wutter. What she heard
herself say was Rutter but she said Wutter. We would then correct her and she
would then say I did say Wutter (meaning Rutter). It was very funny. A lot
of this happens here as well, so good humour is a blessing.

An example of this is saying doing anything for anybody costs nothing. But this
is a tautology. If you are doing nothing it costs nothing, but something always
costs something, but I was corrected that a gift could not be a sacrifice.

I understand the issue, because the word sacrifice is often used as giving up something
you do not want to give up, it is difficult to do, but another meaning is a free will offering
sacrifice to the Lord, which is using the term sacrifice in a different context. It is not
a deeply spiritual issue, but if one word cannot be seen in these two contexts, more difficult
concepts people will struggle over.
Wow. You laughed at your daughters speech impediment?
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Wow. You laughed at your daughters speech impediment?
This was not a serious impediment it was a mental block in her mind.
And she soon got over it. It was though very unusual for us to see.
But it shows you, you can say one thing and think you are saying something else.

And unless we manage to laugh at ourselves we will go nuts.
But then it seems even sharing something mildly amusing is a problem.

Must be the pharisee wing coming out lol
 
Mar 2, 2016
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This was not a serious impediment it was a mental block in her mind.
And she soon got over it. It was though very unusual for us to see.
But it shows you, you can say one thing and think you are saying something else.

And unless we manage to laugh at ourselves we will go nuts.
But then it seems even sharing something mildly amusing is a problem.

Must be the pharisee wing coming out lol
I was just curious. Sounded like your daughter was distorting her "r's" and you though it was funny.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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I was just curious. Sounded like your daughter was distorting her "r's" and you though it was funny.
It is hard to really describe what she was doing. There is a linguistical term when your
brain puts a word or sound in place of another one and you are unaware of it.
It is called malapropism. We all do it, children especially around 4-6 when their language
ability is growing. It can be very funny.
 

Ariel82

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2011
16,931
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Typically not funny to the person being laughed at. Though they grimace and call it a smile.

I personally have a hard time with my R too and never found it funny when people made a big deal about it or actually laughed.

Most just have the courtesy to address what I mean to say and not dwell on the mispronounced letter.
 
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It is hard to really describe what she was doing. There is a linguistical term when your
brain puts a word or sound in place of another one and you are unaware of it.
It is called malapropism. We all do it, children especially around 4-6 when their language
ability is growing. It can be very funny.
I used to call santa claus appysocks. I asked mom, do you think I was trying to say happy socks...? She said, no, you were really trying to say santa claus and thats just how it came out! And when I tried to say grandma, I said puggy. Moms grandchild tries to say grandma and it comes out as gwee.

I had a problem with R's until I was at least twelve. Try having the last name of Marsh when you can't say an r! And my sisters name was Bonnie and when I sang that song about barney google with the goo-goo-googly eyes, it came out Bonnie Google and she would get mad and cry!
 
Mar 2, 2016
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My son was in speech therapy because he had problems with his r's. We should never make fun of kids when they are struggling with something like that. The world is mean enough. He is a little on the smaller side for his age and people say stuff like, "you're small for your age" or things like that. The majority of the world has no idea how powerful their words are and how far they resonate into a persons future.
 
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They didn't have speech therapy for R's back when I was coming up. You just grew out of it and learned to say them at some point I guess. R still feels unnatural to my tongue though. I know I hear a lot of kids who don't pronounce R very well when they're young. They put W in place of L a lot too, like bwanket instead of blanket. It's pretty adorable if you ask me.
 
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They didn't have speech therapy for R's back when I was coming up. You just grew out of it and learned to say them at some point I guess. R still feels unnatural to my tongue though. I know I hear a lot of kids who don't pronounce R very well when they're young. They put W in place of L a lot too, like bwanket instead of blanket. It's pretty adorable if you ask me.
Its not when they get older tho. Kids are mean about that kind of stuff.
 
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Oddly, even though I had trouble with R until I was around 12, I don't remember getting teased...but I was pretty tough, so if I did get teased I may have just let it roll off my back...I got teased for being so tall though. I guess it made me a bit self-conscious but for some reason it didn't destroy me or wreck my life. I have noted that kids seem to be meaner than when I was younger though...
 
Mar 2, 2016
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Oddly, even though I had trouble with R until I was around 12, I don't remember getting teased...but I was pretty tough, so if I did get teased I may have just let it roll off my back...I got teased for being so tall though. I guess it made me a bit self-conscious but for some reason it didn't destroy me or wreck my life. I have noted that kids seem to be meaner than when I was younger though...
Was actually going to post this very same observation of my own....at least the ones that are mean. I think the worse ones are worser and the good ones are gooder. Lol

And I think it makes a very good argument for the fact that there could be a little more grace in the world. From the people equipped to give it......like say for example....Christians.
 
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We always had like one bully. He didn't have friends so much because he was so mean. But it seems like kids now have to deal with gangs of bullies. It's got to be way scarier to fear a gang beating you up instead of one bully...
 
Mar 2, 2016
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We always had like one bully. He didn't have friends so much because he was so mean. But it seems like kids now have to deal with gangs of bullies. It's got to be way scarier to fear a gang beating you up instead of one bully...
Even bullies knew when to quit back then. And there was a certain respect for adults. I remember I was in the third grade and this friend of mine and I were fighting on the play ground at recess. I can't recall if it was real or not but I remember this guy driving by, stopping in the middle of the street in a delivery van and running over to us on the playground and separating us. I don't remember what he said, but I remember being kinda shocked by it. Lol. That was the days when there wasn't a chain link fence around the school. That guy would never get away with that today.

We live in interesting times for sure. I know that I raise my son to accept people who are different than him and show them love and compassion and mercy and stand up against those who would abuse others.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
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Well get some rest, I have been avoiding BDF AND only checked this thread because I wanted to see how you were holding up here.

Saw your post in the family forum and you mentioned attending a Methodist church, so I was curious.

Going back to the prayer forum now.
Here is a article from the United Methodist website stating what we believe about OSAS.

Do United Methodists believe "once saved, always saved" or can we "lose our salvation"? | The United Methodist Church
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
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I didn't "forget" any of it. I posted relevant to your point. I can post the WHOLE Bible if you like. It all says the same thing.

YOU are not a CO- savior! YOU following Jesus doesn't save you. HE DOES!

This is a vital difference. It is at the heart of your works based salvation doctrine.
Please pray for revelation from the Holy Spirit on this matter. I can explain it to you, but only HE can reveal it to you.
I would like you to find where I said I was a co savior as in I can initiate salvation myself. Its funny because this website is called Christian chat but should say something else, it should say Calvinism chat. Yall seem to forget Christians have different denominations but I suppose yall are superior and very prideful to the point yall insult, mock, and act like yall have all the answers.

Yall are like twice as old as me and in need of some maturing.

I have the same bible, I know how to pray and I also know how to treat others with respect.

As my generation would say haters going to hate.

I could explain it to you too but everyone is quick to speak, quick to anger, and do not listen.

So fast to judge and no time to think.

We would rather focus on Jesus saving grace but the only reason we speak against OSAS is because Matthew, and Hebrews speaks against it. We cant just use some scripture and deny others. What yall need to ask yourselves is does God force you to do anything? Are you a vessel and Holy Spirit has complete control? What happens when you sin daily? Is that the holy spirit too? Or do you shrug it off because your already saved and all the lessons in the bible on teaching us to be more like Christ is only for the sinners?

Why does scripture tell us to keep in step with the Spirit and that we must follow the Spirit? Galatians 5:16 and Galatians 5:25.

Doesn't the spirit seal us into our eternal home? So why must we actively keep in step with the Spirit if it is all-controlling.

Galatians 6:1 Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted.

Uh oh how can someone be caught in sin and then need restoration? If their already saved what harm will it do?
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
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I agree with you. People wiser than you have spoken to you.

You seem stuck on repeat, instead of actually listening. AND you have this overall tendency to think you alone (and some guy you don't agree with, but do, but don't, but enough to link his advertising link) know all and must teach all others what you know.

Which brings me back to my question,

BTW, just for the record, I haven't told you my beliefs. So, exactly how do you disagree?

That speaks volumes on the problem that you don't listen.


I do not see your point are you saying Im not reading the comments and just typing whatever back? Or are you trying to say I shouldn't voice my thoughts because it doesn't align up with yours? And you say wise but I have only had 2 people speak to me directly with respect and that's Blueladybug and Willie. They are wise and just because I dont agree completely with them doesn't mean I'm wrong and it doesn't mean they are wrong. I also have wise older people in my church in my small group. All it means is that we differ in interpretations.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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I do not see your point are you saying Im not reading the comments and just typing whatever back? Or are you trying to say I shouldn't voice my thoughts because it doesn't align up with yours? And you say wise but I have only had 2 people speak to me directly with respect and that's Blueladybug and Willie. They are wise and just because I dont agree completely with them doesn't mean I'm wrong and it doesn't mean they are wrong. I also have wise older people in my church in my small group. All it means is that we differ in interpretations.
Let us be honest. People say stuff and get upset and then try and take revenge
without properly articulating the problem, because they know it does not add up.

A whole group will invent an issue and then try and get a rise, so the person is so
fed up they get banned or feel defeated. So unless people truly open up, and share
honestly, it is all posing and show.

By the way say anything truthful and it hurts an individual, forgiveness is not something
many have learnt, to calm down, collect ones thoughts, think the best of others and
then comment.

And to put this in real context, some here have lived through trauma that rips one apart,
and are damaged at some deep levels, so I have great respect for them, but this still
means in Christ we need to walk in the Spirit, Amen.