Have you believed the false grace message?

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gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
5,684
630
113
one more time, there are no groups. people, individuals, read what you write, and react to it.

I am 99% sure there are no anti-peter " groups ". on the 1% chance they are, I am 100% NOT part of it.
 

Ariel82

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2011
16,933
444
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mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
15,848
2,031
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The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16). The gospel is a message of grace to be received through faith. The gospel is not a set of rituals to perform, a code of laws to be obeyed, a check list of good works to accomplish as a prerequisite for salvation, or live a sinless, perfect life or else!

The gospel simply sets forth Christ crucified, buried and risen as the Savior of those who believe/trust in His finished work of redemption as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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one more time, there are no groups. people, individuals, read what you write, and react to it.
I am 99% sure there are no anti-peter " groups ". on the 1% chance they are, I am 100% NOT part of it.
Thank you for your encouragement and validation of my sharing. I am one with you
in the Lord. Dear Lord, bless this brother, in Jesus Name, Amen

Some personalities are pre-disposed to being provocative, and some would say
I am one of them, lol. I would hope I provoke people to the Lord and to think
about what they believe and why they believe it.

What I would hope is all contributors learn to recognise hurt and also commitment
from our interactions. I remember a few years ago, feeling a bit shocked for a
month or more based on what someone said. It was a line I did not expect a believer
to cross, but they did. A good lesson in my learning to love, and set my expectations
in grace, but not be surprised at the response.

Now some will downplay the effects of bdf, but those honest enough will declare it
can be a test of everything you hold dear. Maybe we should recommend bdf as the
training ground of faith, survive here and you will survive anywhere, :cool:
 
Feb 24, 2015
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I wonder, would all the believers dispossess all believers who do not have the same
security declaration they love to bandy about?

I wonder this because phrases like wolves can become sheep, immature christians
slander, hold malice, anti-christs, pharisees, legalists, the worst heresy the christian
church has suffered from throughout church history etc. does not sound to me like
welcome brothers and sisters let us fellowship in the love of the Lord.

It is like the idea if you have praise and worship in a meeting what is shared will glorify
the Lord. But unfortunately this is not true. Or equally one can claim everything from
christ and still have a hard heart so nothing will break through.

I love the simple gospel. Repent, confess and put your faith in Christ and walk in His
ways and you will be saved. Seems like people have drifted a long way from this and
are prepared to condemn people for something that is neither sin nor important.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Why don't you preach and teach Christ Himself and His grace and love for people instead of a religion? Give Christians the nutrients of what Christ has done and then they can grow up in Him.

There are no scriptures that say believers in Christ that are joined as one spirit with the Lord - that they become un-joined. It's a ploy from the enemy and it is a religion.

Jesus said that they Holy Spirit will be with us and in us forever. John 14:16 Is Jesus a liar? I don't believe He is.

If some obscure scriptures "seem" to contradict the very clear abundance of scripture that shows us safe in the Lord - then that means we are not interpretating them correctly. The finished work of Christ on the cross and resurrection is the "lens" to use to interpret all scripture.

Failing to do this - then we come up with a religion of works which denies the very work of Christ and we disguise this "works-based" mindset by saying we are to walk righteously. ( we do walk in the life of Christ as we rely on His grace and life to be manifested and it will reflect itself in righteous/godly living but it is all based on His fruit being manifested in and through us )
 
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garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
6,730
341
83
We would rather focus on Jesus saving grace but the only reason we speak against OSAS is because Matthew, and Hebrews speaks against it. We cant just use some scripture and deny others. What yall need to ask yourselves is does God force you to do anything? Are you a vessel and Holy Spirit has complete control? What happens when you sin daily? Is that the holy spirit too? Or do you shrug it off because your already saved and all the lessons in the bible on teaching us to be more like Christ is only for the sinners?

No such verses that deny the faith of Christ according to His three day labor of love?

Scripture does not say Christ needs to be crucified over and over every time a perosn denies Christ in un-belief (no faith)

Saving grace is the only grace possible through Christ.

Christ performed all the work of faith necessary to forgive all our sins. Why would you think He could fall short of the glory of God?


Uh oh how can someone be caught in sin and then need restoration? If their already saved what harm will it do?
Repentance, the act of God turning a person accustom to sin so they can repent after they are turned. How would that work of Him turning us cause harm. Seeing no man could repent unless he does the first works in us.

It would be those in the Hebrew 6 boat that desire to crucify Christ over and over every time they violate the perfect law of God. Therefore subjecting Christ, the Holy Spirit of God to public shame as if once was not enough to pay the just demands of the law of our Father.


 
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mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
15,848
2,031
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I love the simple gospel. Repent, confess and put your faith in Christ and walk in His
ways and you will be saved.
Do believers walk in His ways in order to become saved or BECAUSE they are saved? You don't want to get this backwards and teach a "different" gospel of works salvation.
 

Ariel82

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2011
16,933
444
83
Why don't you preach and teach Christ Himself and His grace and love for people instead of a religion? Give Christians the nutrients of what Christ has done and then they can grow up in Him.

There are no scriptures that say believers in Christ that are joined as one spirit with the Lord - that they become un-joined. It's a ploy from the enemy and it is a religion.

Jesus said that they Holy Spirit will be with us and in us forever. John 14:16 Is Jesus a liar? I don't believe He is.

If some obscure scriptures "seem" to contradict the very clear abundance of scripture that shows us safe in the Lord - then that means we are not interpretating them correctly. The finished work of Christ on the cross and resurrection is the "lens" to use to interpret all scripture.

Failing to do this - then we come up with a religion of works which denies the very work of Christ and we disguise this "works-based" mindset by saying we are to walk righteously. ( we do walk in the life of Christ as we rely on His grace and life to be manifested and it will reflect itself in righteous/godly living but it is all based on His fruit being manifested in and through us )
Understanding denominations allows you to understand the vocabulary that is used in discussions and from where they speak. It gives you foreknowledge of certain topics that may be disagreed upon.

For example: OSAS, eternal security, original sin, infant baptism, pastors versus preachers, church government, etc.

Often it's like the Saducees versus the Pharisees and their discussion of the resurrection after death.

If you don't take time to understand what another believes and says with their words, you will just get a lot of misunderstanding.

I see it a lot in BDF. Folks talk, get mad no one listen, ignoring the fact they also do not bother to listen or learn what others are truly saying.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
5,349
958
113
I would like you to find where I said I was a co savior as in I can initiate salvation myself. Its funny because this website is called Christian chat but should say something else, it should say Calvinism chat. Yall seem to forget Christians have different denominations but I suppose yall are superior and very prideful to the point yall insult, mock, and act like yall have all the answers.

Yall are like twice as old as me and in need of some maturing.

I have the same bible, I know how to pray and I also know how to treat others with respect.

As my generation would say haters going to hate.

I could explain it to you too but everyone is quick to speak, quick to anger, and do not listen.

So fast to judge and no time to think.

We would rather focus on Jesus saving grace but the only reason we speak against OSAS is because Matthew, and Hebrews speaks against it. We cant just use some scripture and deny others. What yall need to ask yourselves is does God force you to do anything? Are you a vessel and Holy Spirit has complete control? What happens when you sin daily? Is that the holy spirit too? Or do you shrug it off because your already saved and all the lessons in the bible on teaching us to be more like Christ is only for the sinners?

Why does scripture tell us to keep in step with the Spirit and that we must follow the Spirit? Galatians 5:16 and Galatians 5:25.

Doesn't the spirit seal us into our eternal home? So why must we actively keep in step with the Spirit if it is all-controlling.

Galatians 6:1 Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted.

Uh oh how can someone be caught in sin and then need restoration? If their already saved what harm will it do?

I am truly sorry if I am not coming across as loving. I DO need to remember that I thought very similar to you in regards to my walk with the Lord and Salvation.

Having said that, and seeing the generational differences on what it means to "hate" (Many in your generation equate disagreement or correction with hate), I will post just ONE of the statements you made that relies on YOUR performance to maintain Salvation.

This is from your post # 226 "As long as we follow, no one can take eternal life from you. If we choose to follow our own desires, no where in scripture does it say we are forced by God to never be able to backslide and fall away. The spirit is our seal and if we do not walk in the spirit. We are again under the law."

You are in essence saying here that your walk is determinate for your Salvation, and then adding more confusion by saying we are sealed, but WE can break that seal.

Our logical minds come to the conclusion that if we say God's Grace is sufficient for ALL our sin, then we are saying that it's ok to sin. This makes logical sense, right?

Well, as I posted earlier, Paul has very harsh words for those that say exactly that! Romans 3:8 [FONT=&quot]And [/FONT]why not say, “Let us do evil that good may come”?—as we are slanderously reported and as some affirm that we say. Their condemnation is just.

Grace is counter-intuitive to the human mind. It is UNMERITED favor toward us. Now, you will NEVER hear me say that sin is EVER "ok"!!

Their are always consequences to sin. Even for the regenerated Christian. We can lose our health, our families, our jobs, even our mortal lives, AND probably worst of all, God may not use us to bring others to Christ, affecting our eternal rewards. There many be many of the least in the Kingdom of God.

But Jesus paid the price, once and for all, for the PENALTY of sin, which is eternal death.

Lastly, once the revelation from the Holy Spirit comes regarding Grace, WE SIN LESS! I know. Totally counter-intuitive!

I can affirm that once that revelation occurred for me that was the result.

So take heart. I don't hate you in the slightest! I love you, AND your zeal to please God. May He bless you and your family!
 

Ariel82

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2011
16,933
444
83
If you believe infants can be baptized and sealed by the Holy Spirit. Then it necessitates the preaching that people can "fall away", but Wesley rejects the Arminian precept that states that if you fall away you can never be restored.

The discussion of WHEN someone is saved could be made, if you believe in election (that some are destined to,be saved and some are predetermined to hell) or if you believe that Jesus died for all and you make a free will choice to follow God through His grace and mercy.

When discussing what you believe, it is deeper than many wish to discuss.

Do you believe in hell?
Should infants be baptized?
Can people fall away?
When are people saved?
How do you know you have the Holy Spirit?
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Putting people in groups doesn't really help because most members of any group will not agree on every point of theology. It might give you a basis or beginning point for discussion but I know within my own church we do not have full agreement on all points but the key doctrines are shared and we can fellowship.

You're lumping people into group is abrasive and that causes negative reactions from many here.

Mainly because people dont wanted to be treated as a label but an individual, with hopes dreams and beliefs unique to them.

and it usually becomes my group against your group And there can be no discussion of minds and ideas, Instead of seeking to understand, what normally happens is we go into defense mode. and have to defend "our group" or "My Group" and you miss out on what is really going on..
 
Mar 14, 2011
53,621
1,998
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They didn't have speech therapy for R's back when I was coming up. You just grew out of it and learned to say them at some point I guess. R still feels unnatural to my tongue though. I know I hear a lot of kids who don't pronounce R very well when they're young. They put W in place of L a lot too, like bwanket instead of blanket. It's pretty adorable if you ask me.
I had speech therapy in kindergarten and the 1st 2 grades (back in the 70's) because I pronounced my "R"s as "W"s also.

But I agree with everyone, it is not a laughing matter, People who laugh laugh out of pride.. Thats all it is, we called them bullies..
 
Mar 2, 2016
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one more time, there are no groups. people, individuals, read what you write, and react to it.

I am 99% sure there are no anti-peter " groups ". on the 1% chance they are, I am 100% NOT part of it.
I'm anti having stuff crammed down my throat. I prefer to be able to chew and swallow of my own free will.
 
Mar 14, 2011
53,621
1,998
113
one more time, there are no groups. people, individuals, read what you write, and react to it.

I am 99% sure there are no anti-peter " groups ". on the 1% chance they are, I am 100% NOT part of it.
lol. Anti Peter groups? Who made that up??
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
24,188
2,637
113
63
Florida
They didn't have speech therapy for R's back when I was coming up. You just grew out of it and learned to say them at some point I guess. R still feels unnatural to my tongue though. I know I hear a lot of kids who don't pronounce R very well when they're young. They put W in place of L a lot too, like bwanket instead of blanket. It's pretty adorable if you ask me.
While in school I had speech therapy for 8 years because of problems pronouncing words with "R" in them. One day I finally got it and was able to talk normally but even now I sometimes have to think about it before I speak.
 
Mar 14, 2011
53,621
1,998
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Do believers walk in His ways in order to become saved or BECAUSE they are saved? You don't want to get this backwards and teach a "different" gospel of works salvation.
How can people say he is not teaching works. There it was in plain sight.

"Repent, Confess and WALK IN HIS WAYS (WORK) and you will be saved"

Anyone who can read that and not say it is works gospel I will never understand,, they must be selectively reading or something it can not mean anything else.
 
Mar 14, 2011
53,621
1,998
113
Understanding denominations allows you to understand the vocabulary that is used in discussions and from where they speak. It gives you foreknowledge of certain topics that may be disagreed upon.

For example: OSAS, eternal security, original sin, infant baptism, pastors versus preachers, church government, etc.

Often it's like the Saducees versus the Pharisees and their discussion of the resurrection after death.

If you don't take time to understand what another believes and says with their words, you will just get a lot of misunderstanding.

I see it a lot in BDF. Folks talk, get mad no one listen, ignoring the fact they also do not bother to listen or learn what others are truly saying.
some of us just want to talk about the word.. The living gospel The gospel that changes lives, and makes one saved.


We do not want to discuss OSAS, Eternal Security or the like.. We would just like to talk about the word.

The terms are getting thrown around by those who are against it, And thats all they want to talk about..
 
Mar 14, 2011
53,621
1,998
113
If you believe infants can be baptized and sealed by the Holy Spirit. Then it necessitates the preaching that people can "fall away", but Wesley rejects the Arminian precept that states that if you fall away you can never be restored.

The discussion of WHEN someone is saved could be made, if you believe in election (that some are destined to,be saved and some are predetermined to hell) or if you believe that Jesus died for all and you make a free will choice to follow God through His grace and mercy.

When discussing what you believe, it is deeper than many wish to discuss.

Do you believe in hell?
Should infants be baptized?
Can people fall away?
When are people saved?
How do you know you have the Holy Spirit?

what matters is the truth, Non of those things.

If we have disagreements on a gospel issue, There is only 1 Gospel. it means someone is going to heaven, and someone to hell.. It is not an issue like end times, Infant baptism, How one does communion, sabbath observation etc etc.

It is the way to heaven, Paul says if we preach another way (if even one word is different we preach a different gospel) we are to be accursed.. Because it leads to hell.
 
Feb 18, 2017
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I am truly sorry if I am not coming across as loving. I DO need to remember that I thought very similar to you in regards to my walk with the Lord and Salvation.

Having said that, and seeing the generational differences on what it means to "hate" (Many in your generation equate disagreement or correction with hate), I will post just ONE of the statements you made that relies on YOUR performance to maintain Salvation.

This is from your post # 226 "As long as we follow, no one can take eternal life from you. If we choose to follow our own desires, no where in scripture does it say we are forced by God to never be able to backslide and fall away. The spirit is our seal and if we do not walk in the spirit. We are again under the law."

You are in essence saying here that your walk is determinate for your Salvation, and then adding more confusion by saying we are sealed, but WE can break that seal.

Our logical minds come to the conclusion that if we say God's Grace is sufficient for ALL our sin, then we are saying that it's ok to sin. This makes logical sense, right?

Well, as I posted earlier, Paul has very harsh words for those that say exactly that! Romans 3:8 And why not say, “Let us do evil that good may come”?—as we are slanderously reported and as some affirm that we say. Their condemnation is just.

Grace is counter-intuitive to the human mind. It is UNMERITED favor toward us. Now, you will NEVER hear me say that sin is EVER "ok"!!

Their are always consequences to sin. Even for the regenerated Christian. We can lose our health, our families, our jobs, even our mortal lives, AND probably worst of all, God may not use us to bring others to Christ, affecting our eternal rewards. There many be many of the least in the Kingdom of God.

But Jesus paid the price, once and for all, for the PENALTY of sin, which is eternal death.

Lastly, once the revelation from the Holy Spirit comes regarding Grace, WE SIN LESS! I know. Totally counter-intuitive!

I can affirm that once that revelation occurred for me that was the result.

So take heart. I don't hate you in the slightest! I love you, AND your zeal to please God. May He bless you and your family!
Great thoughts and very well said. Encouraging and compassionate and TRUTH.

I could be a little more tender in a lot of my posts.