He became sin...???

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V

valiant

Senior Member
#421
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
63
#421
Mitspa said:
Were your just wrong...with or without the word symbolism ...He (Christ) literally took "sin" upon Himself and it was judged ...
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Yes He took the penalty of OUR sin upon Himself. But sin did not enter into Him in any way otherwise He would cease to be the holy God..

Ro 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
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So? He was 'in the likeness of sinful flesh'. But He Himself was NOT sinful flesh.

IF it could have been judged symbolically ..why did He even need to suffer?
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You people are so tied up with your ideas of symbolism as not being REAL that you cannot see beyond your noses. Symbolism depicts what is REAL but does it in picture form. Thus we only ever think symbolically about God. We think about God in pictures which fall far short of what He really is. God is not on a physical throne. God is not 'above' us spatially. But we have to think about God like that because of our limited understanding. Where we understand God really is in the realms of love and compassion and holiness.

where did I say anything about it being judged symbolically? Can you not see your very limited idea of symbolism? It was judged LITERALLY, but that literal judgment was a symbol to all creation of the justice of God.

That could have been done symbolically too?
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Now you are simply being ridiculous. Symbols PORTRAY reality, but do it in 'picture' terms'.

Satan is not really a drakon (serpent} That is a symbol of what he is. But it is a symbol portraying a reality, that he is the great deceiver of mankind. There cannot be a symbol where there is not a reality (even if an imagined reality as in idolatry) to portray..
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#422
#422
Joh 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#423
#423
valiant said:
Yes He took the penalty of OUR sin upon Himself. But sin did not enter into Him in any way otherwise He would cease to be the holy God..



So? He was 'in the likeness of sinful flesh'. But He Himself was NOT sinful flesh.

I

You people are so tied up with your ides as of symbolism as not being REAL that you cannot see beyond your noses. Symbolism depicts what is REAL but does it in picture form. Thus we only ever think symbolically about God. We think about God in pictures which fall far short of what He really is. God is not on a physical throne. God is not 'above' us spatially. But we have to think about God like that because of our limited understanding. Where we understand God really is in the realms of love and compassion and holiness.

where did I say anything about it being judged symbolically? Can you not see your very limited idea of symbolism? It was judged LITERALLY, but that literal judgment was a symbol to all creation of the justice of God.



Now you are simply being ridiculous. Symbols PORTRAY reality, but do it in 'picture' terms'.

Satan is not really a drakon (serpent} That is a symbol of what he is. But it is a symbol portraying a reality, that he is the great deceiver of mankind. There cannot be a symbol where there is not a reality (even if an imagined reality as in idolatry) to portray..
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Your just wrong...clearly at the Cross. The Father turned away from Him...the clear reading of the scriptures says He became sin or was made sin...not symbolically took our sin...If symbolism worked for sin, He couls have symbolically suffered for symbolic sin.
 
V

valiant

Senior Member
#424
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
63
#424
Mitspa said:
Your just wrong...clearly at the Cross. The Father turned away from Him...the clear reading of the scriptures says He became sin or was made sin...not symbolically took our sin...If symbolism worked for sin, He couls have symbolically suffered for symbolic sin.
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are you so blind that you cannot see? Symbolism does not REPLACE reality, it portrays reality in picture form. Christ being made sin for us was a symbol (a picture given to help us) but it was the symbol of a reality. He really bore the punishment for ours sins on Himself. That was the reality. . But He was not HIMSELF made sin. That was a symbolic (pictorial) way of portraying what He did. Had He literally been made sin that would have been to destroy the purity of God.

Actually the Father never turned away from Him. The Father could not forsake the Son. That is human language. (It would have been to destroy the triunity of God). Jesus cited the Psalm because that was how He felt. He felt forsaken. But of course He was not. The eyes of the Father were on Him all the time allowing Him to suffer the necessary punishment for sin..
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#425
#425
valiant said:
are you so blind that you cannot see? Symbolism does not REPLACE reality, it portrays reality in picture form. Christ being made sin for us was a symbol (a picture given to help us) but it was the symbol of a reality. He really bore the punishment for ours sins on Himself. That was the reality. . But He was not HIMSELF made sin. That was a symbolic (pictorial) way of portraying what He did. Had He literally been made sin that would have been to destroy the purity of God.

Actually the Father never turned away from Him. The Father could not forsake the Son. That is human language. (It would have been to destroy the triunity of God). Jesus cited the Psalm because that was how He felt. He felt forsaken. But of course He was not. The eyes of the Father were on Him all the time allowing Him to suffer the necessary punishment for sin..
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that's just double talk to say that part of the cross was literal suffering in reality but the sin that caused the suffering was "symbolic"..and that one must read the scriptures as symbolic . No friend your just wrong.
 
R

Roberth

Banned
#426
Oct 3, 2015
1,266
7
0
#426
Mitspa said:
He "knew" no sin...that would include "indwelling" sin...think about it!
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1] Having a sinful nature places you in death row because we all stand condemned for sharing Adam's life after the fall. See Romans chapter 5

2] Transgressing God's law also brings condemnation, but here we stand guilty of sin. Christ was never guilty of transgression.

Catholics teach that having a sinful nature makes us guilty sinners, but this isn't true. It makes us condemned sinners. We are only guilty of sin when the law is made known to us. Nevertheless, because we are born without God's Spirit and became we are born with our sinful nature controlling our minds, we sin.

Christ, as the son of man, was born "spiritually alive". This means that while He did share our condemned nature, that nature was never allowed to control His mind.
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#428
#428
Roberth said:
He couldn't find any sin (transgression).
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what part of "in me" sounds like He had indwelling sin to you? What part of He knew no sin...sounds like indwelling sin to you?
 
R

Roberth

Banned
#429
Oct 3, 2015
1,266
7
0
#429
Mitspa said:
what part of "in me" sounds like He had indwelling sin to you? What part of He knew no sin...sounds like indwelling sin to you?
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This is just stupid. The devil didn't care if Christ assumed our indwelling sin. The Devil wanted Christ to sin and He tempted Christ to sin through our nature. Comprehend?

The devil found no sin (that is breaking His Father's law) in Christ.
 
R

Roberth

Banned
#430
Oct 3, 2015
1,266
7
0
#430
"youalso died to the law in the body of Christ" (Rom 7:4)

Who is the "you"?

Well, from where did you receive your life?

Answer: Ultimately, Adam! How so? All of us come from "one man!

Acts 17:26 "He (God, the creator) made from one (Adam) the whole human race" NABRE

So all of us share Adam's life. This life belongs to you and that life died in Christ.

What type of life did you receive from Adam? A fallen life, indwelt by iniquity (i.e, the sin nature).

That life died in Christ.

Comprehend????
 
R

Roberth

Banned
#431
Oct 3, 2015
1,266
7
0
#431
Tell me, which of the following died with Christ? 1 or 2?

First, Rom 6:6

"Our old self (the life we share with Adam) was (past tense) crucified with Him (Christ as the son of man), in order that our body of sin might be done away with...."


1] Your old life with its "body of sin" (a body indwelt with our bent towards selfishness)

or

2] A body without indwelling sin, like Adam before the fall?

Answer: # 1 "Our body of sin" died "in Christ" and therefore this is absolute proof that Christ, as God, assumed our fallen life from Adam!
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#432
#432
Roberth said:
"youalso died to the law in the body of Christ" (Rom 7:4)

Who is the "you"?

Well, from where did you receive your life?

Answer: Ultimately, Adam! How so? All of us come from "one man!

Acts 17:26 "He (God, the creator) made from one (Adam) the whole human race" NABRE

So all of us share Adam's life. This life belongs to you and that life died in Christ.

What type of life did you receive from Adam? A fallen life, indwelt by iniquity (i.e, the sin nature).

That life died in Christ.

Comprehend????
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I don't know what point you think your making ?..but clearly Christ did not have sin in the flesh.

2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
1Pe 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
1Jo 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
Heb 4:15 for we have not a chief priest unable to sympathise with our weaknesses, but one tempted in all things in like manner--apart from sin;

Joh 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#433
#433
Roberth said:
Tell me, which of the following died with Christ? 1 or 2?

First, Rom 6:6

"Our old self (the life we share with Adam) was (past tense) crucified with Him (Christ as the son of man), in order that our body of sin might be done away with...."


1] Your old life with its "body of sin" (a body indwelt with our bent towards selfishness)

or

2] A body without indwelling sin, like Adam before the fall?

Answer: # 1 "Our body of sin" died "in Christ" and therefore this is absolute proof that Christ, as God, assumed our fallen life from Adam!
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Dude when YOU have to add YOUR words to Gods Word..to prove that Jesus had indwelling sin...then you can be 100% sure that you are wrong.
 
R

Roberth

Banned
#434
Oct 3, 2015
1,266
7
0
#434
Christians who accept this heresy that Christ didn't come in the flesh (sarx) have been influenced, whether they know it or not, by Catholic dogma. They've accepted the Catholic version of original sin, that is, we are guilty because we share Adam's fallen life. This is false. This is heresy.

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—13 for [h]until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam....

Nowhere does it teach we are guilty because of Adam's sin (what Catholics call original sin). If Catholics were right, yes, then if Christ had assumed our fallen nature He would be guilty of sin, but it's not true. It's a lie fabricated by Satan himself.
 
R

Roberth

Banned
#435
Oct 3, 2015
1,266
7
0
#435
Mitspa said:
Dude when YOU have to add YOUR words to Gods Word..to prove that Jesus had indwelling sin...then you can be 100% sure that you are wrong.
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Here's Paul: "Our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away...."

Our "old self" is associated with "our body of sin". This died in Christ. If you can't deal with Paul, burn the book because your creating your own Bible anyway.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#436
#436
Roberth said:


Here's Paul: "Our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away...."

Our "old self" is associated with "our body of sin". This died in Christ. If you can't deal with Paul, burn the book because your creating your own Bible anyway.
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What does that do to prove that Christ Jesus had indwelling sin? NOTHING! Yes we have sin in the flesh...Jesus did not!

2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
1Pe 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
1Jo 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
Heb 4:15 for we have not a chief priest unable to sympathise with our weaknesses, but one tempted in all things in like manner--apart from sin;

Joh 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#437
#437
Roberth said:
Christians who accept this heresy that Christ didn't come in the flesh (sarx) have been influenced, whether they know it or not, by Catholic dogma. They've accepted the Catholic version of original sin, that is, we are guilty because we share Adam's fallen life. This is false. This is heresy.

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—13 for [h]until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam....

Nowhere does it teach we are guilty because of Adam's sin (what Catholics call original sin). If Catholics were right, yes, then if Christ had assumed our fallen nature He would be guilty of sin, but it's not true. It's a lie fabricated by Satan himself.
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He came in the flesh...His flesh did not have sin ...its heresy to suggest He did.

2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
1Pe 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
1Jo 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
Heb 4:15 for we have not a chief priest unable to sympathise with our weaknesses, but one tempted in all things in like manner--apart from sin;

Joh 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
 
R

Roberth

Banned
#438
Oct 3, 2015
1,266
7
0
#438
Mitspa said:
What does that do to prove that Christ Jesus (took) indwelling sin? NOTHING! ....
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As long as you can't stick to the context and jump to other verses, not as clear, you prove your true colors....

Context is Romans 6:6. Do you understand that? Read it...read it again, and then try honesty.
 
R

Roberth

Banned
#439
Oct 3, 2015
1,266
7
0
#439
Mitspa said:
Dude when YOU have to add YOUR words to Gods Word..to prove that Jesus had indwelling sin...then you can be 100% sure that you are wrong.
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That's not an answer. For the hardheaded I will repeat it:

Tell me, which of the following died with Christ? 1 or 2?

First, Rom 6:6

"Our old self was (past tense) crucified with Him , in order that our body of sin might be done away with...."


1] Your old life with its "body of sin"
or

2] A body without indwelling sin, like Adam before the fall?
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#440
#440
Roberth said:


As long as you can't stick to the context and jump to other verses, not as clear, you prove your true colors....

Context is Romans 6:6. Do you understand that? Read it...read it again, and then try honesty.
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Guy your changing my post! I guess since your willing to change the Word of God..its no big deal to you? But I suggest you might be breaking the forum rules?

Yes He "took" our sin on the Cross...He did not have indwelling sin...

2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
1Pe 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
1Jo 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
Heb 4:15 for we have not a chief priest unable to sympathise with our weaknesses, but one tempted in all things in like manner--apart from sin;

Joh 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
 
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