He cometh in the glory of his Father

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Larry_Stotle

Senior Member
Apr 28, 2014
504
8
18
#1
(Mark 8:38 KJV) Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.


Theophanies in the bible:

(2 Ki 6:14 KJV) Therefore sent he thither horses, and chariots, and a great host: and they came by night, and compassed the city about.

(2 Ki 6:15 KJV) And when the servant of the man of God was risen early, and gone forth, behold, an host compassed the city both with horses and chariots. And his servant said unto him, Alas, my master! how shall we do?

(2 Ki 6:16 KJV) And he answered, Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them.

(2 Ki 6:17 KJV) And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.

(2 Ki 6:18 KJV) And when they came down to him, Elisha prayed unto the LORD, and said, Smite this people, I pray thee, with blindness. And he smote them with blindness according to the word of Elisha.


Now does anyone believe that the "horses and chariots of fire" were literal and seen with the physical eyes?

Is it not evident that they could only be seen by a vision? There were no physical horses, but we can be assured they were the horses and chariots of heaven.

John has similar visions of the white horses of Jesus as the Lord of hosts coming against 1st century AD Jerusalem:

(Rev 19:13 KJV) And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

(Rev 19:14 KJV) And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen,white and clean.

So why would the literalists think that there is any difference between the vision beheld by Elisha's servant and the one given to John in the revelation?

Why would the woody literalist think the coming of Christ would be optically seen anymore than Elisha's servant optically saw the Lords army?
 
Dec 18, 2013
6,733
44
0
#2
I believe God's armies were greater and more powerful than the Syrian army as Elisha a prophet of God showed his servant (possibly Gehazi).

Question: Did Elisha's servant see the armies in the future or in the present when the Syrian army came to capture Elisha? I believe in the present

(2 Ki 6:16 KJV) And he answered, Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them.

Second Question: Whose army prevailed in this event with a flawless victory? Is it not written in the book of 2 Kings Chapter 6?
 

Larry_Stotle

Senior Member
Apr 28, 2014
504
8
18
#3
I believe God's armies were greater and more powerful than the Syrian army as Elisha a prophet of God showed his servant (possibly Gehazi).

Question: Did Elisha's servant see the armies in the future or in the present when the Syrian army came to capture Elisha? I believe in the present

(2 Ki 6:16 KJV) And he answered, Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them.

Second Question: Whose army prevailed in this event with a flawless victory? Is it not written in the book of 2 Kings Chapter 6?
Did they need much of an army when God had struck them blind:

(2 Ki 6:18 KJV) And when they came down to him, Elisha prayed unto the LORD, and said, Smite this people, I pray thee, with blindness. And he smote them with blindness according to the word of Elisha.
 
Dec 18, 2013
6,733
44
0
#4
Heh so it would seem you agree with me that God's army won.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,989
50
48
#5
(Mark 8:38 KJV) Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.


Theophanies in the bible:

(2 Ki 6:14 KJV) Therefore sent he thither horses, and chariots, and a great host: and they came by night, and compassed the city about.

(2 Ki 6:15 KJV) And when the servant of the man of God was risen early, and gone forth, behold, an host compassed the city both with horses and chariots. And his servant said unto him, Alas, my master! how shall we do?

(2 Ki 6:16 KJV) And he answered, Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them.

(2 Ki 6:17 KJV) And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.

(2 Ki 6:18 KJV) And when they came down to him, Elisha prayed unto the LORD, and said, Smite this people, I pray thee, with blindness. And he smote them with blindness according to the word of Elisha.


Now does anyone believe that the "horses and chariots of fire" were literal and seen with the physical eyes?

Is it not evident that they could only be seen by a vision? There were no physical horses, but we can be assured they were the horses and chariots of heaven.

John has similar visions of the white horses of Jesus as the Lord of hosts coming against 1st century AD Jerusalem:

(Rev 19:13 KJV) And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

(Rev 19:14 KJV) And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen,white and clean.

So why would the literalists think that there is any difference between the vision beheld by Elisha's servant and the one given to John in the revelation?

Why would the woody literalist think the coming of Christ would be optically seen anymore than Elisha's servant optically saw the Lords army?
Great verses, Larry.

Add in the vision of Habakkuk 3.

I don't worry about the literalness or lack of literalness. The Lord gave us these images for our edification. Gaze on them; let them transform you if you are a Christian (2 Cor 3:18).
 

Larry_Stotle

Senior Member
Apr 28, 2014
504
8
18
#6
Good verses - but not exactly where I was heading with the thread - but this once again points out where a woody literal interpretation fails.

(Hab 3:8 KJV) Was the LORD displeased against the rivers? was thine anger against the rivers? was thy wrath against the sea, that thou didst ride upon thine horses and thy chariots of salvation?

(Hab 3:9 KJV) Thy bow was made quite naked, according to the oaths of the tribes, even thy word. Selah. Thou didst cleave the earth with rivers.

(Hab 3:10 KJV) The mountains saw thee, and they trembled: the overflowing of the water passed by: the deep uttered his voice, and lifted up his hands on high.

(Hab 3:11 KJV) The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear.
 

Larry_Stotle

Senior Member
Apr 28, 2014
504
8
18
#7
Matthew 24:30 (NKJV) Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven......

Mat 24:30 (NASB) And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky....

The above are misleading renditions.

(Mat 24:30 KJV) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven....

Mat 24:30 (ASV)and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven....

Mat 24:30 (Youngs Literal) and then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in the heaven....

Gary DeMar states, "In heaven does not modify sign. Jesus was not telling them to look for Himself in the sky. He told them that they would see a sign that proved He was in heaven, sitting at his Father’s right hand".

Jesus was telling them that in the events he predicted (the sack of Jerusalem and the destruction of the temple) would be the sign of Him seated in the heavens and that He truly is the Son of God and came in the same manner as his Father had in judgment on Israel and some of the nations in the past "in the glory of his Father".