Healing By Prayer Only

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DustyRhodes

Senior Member
Dec 30, 2016
1,037
55
48
#1
A woman in Oregon gave birth to twins. The birth was at home
and they had complications. Rather than call 911 or take babies
to hospital, they chose to do nothing but pray. Babies both died
and the couple were charged with their death. After trial, they
were found guilty and given a 6 year sentence each. Was couple
right or wrong to do what they did? They were Christian btw.

Toughts:

1. Did the couple have the right to make that decision for babies?
2. Would calling 911 compromise their beliefs?
3. Are physicians not a part of God's creation or why would they exist?
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
2,922
41
48
#2
1. No. Those children are not their personal property but individuals with the rights and privileges guaranteed to all individuals under the U.S. Constitution, while a parent can enact stronger regulations for those little citizens living under their jurisdiction they cannot forsake their obligation to secure the blessings of Liberty for themselves and their posterity.

However with that said, in most states a person does not have the legal obligation to rescue or render aid, except when they are responsible for the need of rescue or aid.
In Florida there was a case where some teenagers watched and laughed at a person who was drowning, that individual died. The only thing that they could charge the teenagers with was failure to report a death.​

2. Good question. I would have liked to have known how they would have responded to the question regarding of what they would have done if they saw someone choking on food or injured, or something to that effect to see what their response was. If they would rendered aid or call for medical assistance for someone else then they should have done it for the two children.

3. Not sure what that has to do with the issue unless to question why doctors can refuse to render aid to a patient unless they can pay for their service.

What difference does it make if a person is Christian or not?
 

SpoonJuly

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2018
428
171
43
#3
If they were truly Christians, they would have gotten help for the babies.
God does not bless those willfully stupid.
 
S

Seedz

Guest
#4
A woman in Oregon gave birth to twins. The birth was at home
and they had complications. Rather than call 911 or take babies
to hospital, they chose to do nothing but pray. Babies both died
and the couple were charged with their death. After trial, they
were found guilty and given a 6 year sentence each. Was couple
right or wrong to do what they did? They were Christian btw.

Toughts:

1. Did the couple have the right to make that decision for babies?
2. Would calling 911 compromise their beliefs?
3. Are physicians not a part of God's creation or why would they exist?

1. They do not have rights over the lives of others, even if "others" happen to be their offspring. If they are not medically trained, they have no business performing a home birth, specially for twins.

2. Calling 911 is the sensible thing to do, praying is not sensible since it has sporadic results. People by now should realize that prayer doesn't work as they think it does.

3. Doctors are part of humanity and the human nature is to advance and better itself. Going against this principle makes you traitor to your own kind.

4. If God foresaw their stupidity, why didn't he prevent them from conceiving in the first place?
 

UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
3,282
190
63
#5
A woman in Oregon gave birth to twins. The birth was at home
and they had complications. Rather than call 911 or take babies
to hospital, they chose to do nothing but pray. Babies both died
and the couple were charged with their death. After trial, they
were found guilty and given a 6 year sentence each. Was couple
right or wrong to do what they did? They were Christian btw.

Toughts:

1. Did the couple have the right to make that decision for babies?
2. Would calling 911 compromise their beliefs?
3. Are physicians not a part of God's creation or why would they exist?
1. Legally no, religious beliefs are not a defense for denying medical treatment to a minor, that is why they were charged and convicted.
2. Yes, but their beliefs were wrong.
3. Is there any scripture that prohibits medical treatment for a Christian? I have not read it if there is.



Sadly this couple needed better discipleship.
This is a very sad story.
:cry:
 

Jewel5712

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2018
510
295
63
#6
1. Legally no, religious beliefs are not a defense for denying medical treatment to a minor, that is why they were charged and convicted.
2. Yes, but their beliefs were wrong.
3. Is there any scripture that prohibits medical treatment for a Christian? I have not read it if there is.



Sadly this couple needed better discipleship.
This is a very sad story.
:cry:
Sad story...but even if 911 was called..God still couldve taken them..but as a parent i believe we should do everything possible to protect oir children..God still has the last descision..all part of Gods will...HOWEVER..in saying this..i HAVE seen people healed by the laying on of hands..and it wasnt a hoax..prayer CAN be an instrument to heal..
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
11,847
614
113
#7
This type of thing has been going on for years. The JWs do not believe in blood transfusions so they are willing to die rather than receive blood from a transfusion to save them.

Christian Science does not believe in modern medicine and they have run afoul of the law many times.

Take the children to the doctor and pray to God they are healed of their infirmities. Give God the glory for doctors and the power of prayer.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Jewel5712

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2018
510
295
63
#8
This type of thing has been going on for years. The JWs do not believe in blood transfusions so they are willing to die rather than receive blood from a transfusion to save them.

Christian Science does not believe in modern medicine and they have run afoul of the law many times.

Take the children to the doctor and pray to God they are healed of their infirmities. Give God the glory for doctors and the power of prayer.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
When my kids were little..they HAD to get immunization shots or they werent let in school and a parent could br found in neglect and charged by the state for child neglect and endangerment..
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
2,922
41
48
#9
If they were truly Christians, they would have gotten help for the babies.
God does not bless those willfully stupid.
Who defines that term 'truly Christian"
4. If God foresaw their stupidity,
Remember in Genesis 1 when on the first day God said let their be light and there was light, and he saw the light...then created the sun on day four,
why didn't he prevent them from conceiving in the first place?
I hear it might be the same reason found as written in 1 John 1:5-6 but it could be from trusting in their own interpretation of the scriptures since we are advised to not seek the consult of familiar spirits.
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
2,922
41
48
#10
This type of thing has been going on for years. The JWs do not believe in blood transfusions so they are willing to die rather than receive blood from a transfusion to save them.

Christian Science does not believe in modern medicine and they have run afoul of the law many times.

Take the children to the doctor and pray to God they are healed of their infirmities. Give God the glory for doctors and the power of prayer.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
How bout children diagnosed with certain types of cancer? Does a parent have to subject their child to painful, expensive and continuous procedures the remaining days of their life which are more experimental research than a medical treatment.
Who determines what treatment you must provide your child? you or God?
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
2,027
226
63
#11
A woman in Oregon gave birth to twins. The birth was at home
and they had complications. Rather than call 911 or take babies
to hospital, they chose to do nothing but pray. Babies both died
and the couple were charged with their death. After trial, they
were found guilty and given a 6 year sentence each. Was couple
right or wrong to do what they did? They were Christian btw.

Toughts:

1. Did the couple have the right to make that decision for babies?
2. Would calling 911 compromise their beliefs?
3. Are physicians not a part of God's creation or why would they exist?
There was a simular case made into a movie in 1988 called Promised A Miracle. The parents took away their son's insulin and trusted only God to heal him. He died.

It has to be understood that for one, God only heals through prayer if it is in accordance with His Will. Paul prayed several times about the thorn in his flesh, God said no, My grace is sufficient for you. For two, doctors, medicine, etc could be the answer to the prayer- the help that God is sending.

I heard a story once... A man caught after a flood was balancing on a piece of wood in the water. He had drifted far away from any other surface, and could not swim. He prayed with complete faith for God to save him. After a while a man on a jet ski comes along. "Hop on" he says. "No, my God will save me." Hours later à woman on a row boat comes along. "No, my God will save me." he says. Days later a helicopter comes along. "No, my God will save me." he says. Soon after it leaves the man drowns. He gets to heaven and asks God why He didn't save him. God says "I sent a jet ski, a boat, and a helicopter to save you."
 
S

Seedz

Guest
#12
Who defines that term 'truly Christian"

Remember in Genesis 1 when on the first day God said let their be light and there was light, and he saw the light...then created the sun on day four,

I hear it might be the same reason found as written in 1 John 1:5-6 but it could be from trusting in their own interpretation of the scriptures since we are advised to not seek the consult of familiar spirits.
Hahaha. Right.... Not ambiguous at all!!!
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
2,027
226
63
#13
How bout children diagnosed with certain types of cancer? Does a parent have to subject their child to painful, expensive and continuous procedures the remaining days of their life which are more experimental research than a medical treatment.
Who determines what treatment you must provide your child? you or God?
If the bible isn't specific enough, we must determine wwjd. Some are easy to conclude. Such as if a kidnapper is trying to take your child, and you have ahold of his leg, should you let it go cause it hurts? No, it is better to take him to the hospital with a broken leg than for him to be murdered. Some are not as easy. It depends on what kind of cancer, what's the success rate, how long has the cancer been there, has it progressed, what are the statistics, etc. If I thought I could save my child, I would, but if I thought he's going to die anyways, I would not make him spend his last days suffering.
 

CS1

Moderator
Staff member
May 23, 2012
2,715
277
83
#14
A woman in Oregon gave birth to twins. The birth was at home
and they had complications. Rather than call 911 or take babies
to hospital, they chose to do nothing but pray. Babies both died
and the couple were charged with their death. After trial, they
were found guilty and given a 6 year sentence each. Was couple
right or wrong to do what they did? They were Christian btw.

Toughts:

1. Did the couple have the right to make that decision for babies?
2. Would calling 911 compromise their beliefs?
3. Are physicians not a part of God's creation or why would they exist?
sad those who are unbiblical and ignorant to think going to the hospital is not what to do. But I cannot really say what is all the issues .

how old were they?
were did they get this understanding of prayer
and how many years did those young couples get for throwing their baby in the trash and it died?
yes they did wrong. the motives as to why was not given in the post you provided.