Healing through the Son

[BenFTW]

Here is where you are confusing what I’m saying and what I think most others hear are saying.

I do not ever think that God can’t heal someone or just don’t have the power. That’s just ludicrous. We know God has all power in Heaven and earth so there is nothing that he can’t or won’t do when it is his will.

Now there is the key…When it is his will…

So here’s the key for me, yes we pray and have faith that God has all power to heal, but we pray according to his will. God knows what’s best and he will do what’s best for us if we put our complete faith in him. May or may not be healing…He knows the future and knows exactly what each and every person needs, and will work it out for the good.
To say let your will be done is not losing or showing a lack of faith in God, but is showing complete faith and trust in God…Knowing that his will is what is best whether it be a healing or not.

So yes, we have complete faith in him and learn to align our will with his will. Knowing that our main hope and goal is not this world, but the one to come.

Like Paul said… to live is Christ and to die is gain.

I believe you've misread what I have said, or I worded it poorly. When I said that God could not heal a person, I meant God could choose to not heal someone (not that He was incapable, or lacking power) under the belief system of some.

As for God's will, and submitting to it. Great! We ought to do so. What is it though to pray that His will be done, as if we don't know it, when it is already revealed? You can make petitions to God, no doubt, and He is merciful. Yet, the prayer of faith that saves the sick isn't a guessing game. It says to anoint with oil and that the prayer will save/heal the sick. It is administering healing, not hoping for it. It comprehends God's will, that is established, and dares to carry it out in the name of Jesus (to glorify the Son).

 

[blue_ladybug]

Personally, no I don't believe that it's God's will to heal me. Do I believe He CAN? Absolutely. I DO believe, however, that God uses our sicknesses to strengthen our faith and draw us closer to Him. I mean, look at Angela and Blain, and several others here. They have an awesome testimony of how God is using their illnesses to bring them and others closer to God.

I just pray that God sees fit to heal people like Blain, Angela, Joidevivre and anyone else who is suffering. If it's His will, then He will do it. If it isn't His will, then so be it. They will just continue to be awesome witnesses for him.

I would ask you, "Do you believe it is God's will to heal you?", but we've gone down this road before only to have you be offended, not considering what I am truly saying and the consequence of your words (that reveal your heart). Not that I am saying I know your heart, but if we carefully listen to what we say, we can see the implications.

You already believe that God doesn't always heal, that it isn't a promise or guarantee, and that leaves you with what? On what basis do you seek healing from God? If you say His mercy, I'd tell you that then you believe it is God's will to heal you because you believe He will be merciful to you. This is a cause for celebration and you can praise God, and thank him for the healing you believe He is bringing your way, based upon His goodness and generosity.

 

[1ofthem]

I believe you've misread what I have said, or I worded it poorly. When I said that God could not heal a person, I meant God could choose to not heal someone (not that He was incapable, or lacking power) under the belief system of some.

As for God's will, and submitting to it. Great! We ought to do so. What is it though to pray that His will be done, as if we don't know it, when it is already revealed? You can make petitions to God, no doubt, and He is merciful. Yet, the prayer of faith that saves the sick isn't a guessing game. It says to anoint with oil and that the prayer will save/heal the sick. It is administering healing, not hoping for it. It comprehends God's will, that is established, and dares to carry it out in the name of Jesus (to glorify the Son).

God is God. He knows what is best for all of us. Not everyone is healed and that is not his will for everyone... we know that.... There are too many deaths happening to say it's his will to heal everyone all the time. Everyone dies, right.

And we don't know God's will in everyone's life. God gets glory in all things whether it is healing or whether it is not. God knows what he is doing. We have faith and trust in him in all things.

I've seen healing. I've also seen it not happen... and I'm sure when it didn't happen, it wasn't always or just because someone failed God and didn't have the faith...

Precious in the sight of the Lord is the death of his saints...and death is coming for all of us in one form or another.

 

[blue_ladybug]

I'm gonna exit this discussion, because this topic only serves to always get me riled up.

 

[BenFTW]

Personally, no I don't believe that it's God's will to heal me. Do I believe He CAN? Absolutely. I DO believe, however, that God uses our sicknesses to strengthen our faith and draw us closer to Him. I mean, look at Angela and Blain, and several others here. They have an awesome testimony of how God is using their illnesses to bring them and others closer to God.

I just pray that God sees fit to heal people like Blain, Angela, Joidevivre and anyone else who is suffering. If it's His will, then He will do it. If it isn't His will, then so be it. They will just continue to be awesome witnesses for him.

Thank you for your candid honesty.

In respect to God's will and if its His will He will do it, well if I may say so, that is somewhat of a complacent mindset. Not you, but that specific way of thinking (doctrine, what have you). For example, God has a will and purpose for our life, but we can choose to not walk in that will. That is the liberty we have. God's will may be to heal someone, for example, but they do not believe and therefore are not healed.

Jesus went to His hometown and His will was to do mighty works, but He could not because of their unbelief (scripture says). So while God has a will, some of which He makes happen (such as prophesies), He has a will that requires our submission and obedience in order to walk into it. Jonah, for example, God was forceful with him, yes, but he was resisting God's will. He was in disobedience. Had he not repented, who knows how far God would've taken it, haha. Nonetheless His will was something to be submitted to.

God tells Peter to walk on water, Peter obeyed. His will was carried out by obedience. This means that God's will isn't always a matter of complacency, but action. Even to the lame did Jesus and the apostles say, "Rise up and walk" and they obeyed (and believed).

The point is, God's will is revealed and we ought to submit to it. In the case of healing, it has been made available to us through Christ, and the promises of God are "Yes" and "Amen" in Christ Jesus. If not only in word, in the character and nature of God (Jehovah Rapha). The way we submit to this will, is to believe. Have faith.

 

[DJ2]

I see it in black and white, not grey. You are placing quantitative values on faith (too much, too little, etc) when all I have said is to "believe." Contrary to your depiction of how you view I am representing God, His response would not be that but rather an encouragement to believe (properly) so that you may have faith in order to receive from Him. It is not that God is withholding His blessings, it is that we have declined them (through unbelief, improper thinking).

Let me, as gently as I can, express this. If a person says that God does not heal all people, they then have permitted a belief system by which God could not heal them. Right? We can agree? So, if God can say no to healing, then one cannot have faith for healing. They can only hope that God smiles upon them. Right? That He would have mercy on them, correct? So how do I under this belief system have any faith whatsoever if I do not believe it is God's will to heal me? I am only left with hope.

So if I am not healed, or someone passes away, my hope was in vain. I submit to God's supposed will. For some, this puts a barrier between them and God, a resentment. He could've healed them, but He didn't is the response. Do you believe all deaths were the will of God? Obviously not, because people have been raised from the dead. We have to then come to grip with reality. There are different options, and yes, one includes our belief system and the other the sovereignty of God. Another includes both (which is the one I subscribe to).

Our beliefs about God, towards God, affect our relationship with Him and what we receive from Him. A promise is to be believed in. If there is no promise, no guarantee, no will revealed, then there is no faith. Yet also we must submit to God's sovereignty when a person passes away (because it was just their time). It is extremely sad, even Jesus wept when death happened (Lazarus). For us on the other hand, believers, there is at the least some part of it a joy for the one that passes away is now with the Lord. We may think fondly upon the times we shared with them, and be grateful to God, that they now rest in His presence.

Proper beliefs and the sovereignty of God.

This is about avoiding the reality of what is, as opposed to what some think should be.

One group is saying that the scriptures show that we are still living in an age of the miraculous. "Just look around at all the miracles."

The other group is saying that if the scriptures are pointing to our still living in a miraculous age there should be physical evidence of its existence all around us. "If physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit are occurring why is only the mundane being presented as evidence?"

Which group are you?

 

[BenFTW]

This is about avoiding the reality of what is, as opposed to what some think should be.

One group is saying that the scriptures show that we are still living in an age of the miraculous. "Just look around at all the miracles."

The other group is saying that if the scriptures are pointing to our still living in a miraculous age there should be physical evidence of its existence all around us. "If physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit are occurring why is only the mundane being presented as evidence?"

Which group are you?

This, again, goes back to belief. For those that don't believe "supernatural physical manifestations of the Holy Spirit" are occurring, isn't this a case of getting exactly what you believe? Wouldn't this just be a confirmation bias, of getting exactly what they believe, which is nothing for today?

As for the mundane versus the spectacular, that is subjective. Even so, there are testimonies of mighty works (blind seeing, dead raising, incurable diseases being cured, etc).

 

[blue_ladybug]

God's answers also include "NO" and "Not Yet". And how many times do I have to say it, it doesn't matter how much faith and belief you have.. God said a mustard-seed-sized amount of faith is sufficient. You ever seen how teeny a mustard seed is?

And once again, there you go. Telling me to have faith. To believe. Whaddya think I been doing for the last 4-plus frickin' decades?!!

God's will for us is to be immortals in a perfect world. That ain't gonna happen in THIS lifetime. And neither is healing for ALL people, in a one shot deal..

Thank you for your candid honesty.

In respect to God's will and if its His will He will do it, well if I may say so, that is somewhat of a complacent mindset. Not you, but that specific way of thinking (doctrine, what have you). For example, God has a will and purpose for our life, but we can choose to not walk in that will. That is the liberty we have. God's will may be to heal someone, for example, but they do not believe and therefore are not healed.

Jesus went to His hometown and His will was to do mighty works, but He could not because of their unbelief (scripture says). So while God has a will, some of which He makes happen (such as prophesies), He has a will that requires our submission and obedience in order to walk into it. Jonah, for example, God was forceful with him, yes, but he was resisting God's will. He was in disobedience. Had he not repented, who knows how far God would've taken it, haha. Nonetheless His will was something to be submitted to.

God tells Peter to walk on water, Peter obeyed. His will was carried out by obedience. This means that God's will isn't always a matter of complacency, but action. Even to the lame did Jesus and the apostles say, "Rise up and walk" and they obeyed (and believed).

The point is, God's will is revealed and we ought to submit to it. In the case of healing, it has been made available to us through Christ, and the promises of God are "Yes" and "Amen" in Christ Jesus. If not only in word, in the character and nature of God (Jehovah Rapha). The way we submit to this will, is to believe. Have faith.

 

[BenFTW]

God's answers also include "NO" and "Not Yet". And how many times do I have to say it, it doesn't matter how much faith and belief you have.. God said a mustard-seed-sized amount of faith is sufficient. You ever seen how teeny a mustard seed is?

And once again, there you go. Telling me to have faith. To believe. Whaddya think I been doing for the last 4-plus frickin' decades?!!

God's will for us is to be immortals in a perfect world. That ain't gonna happen in THIS lifetime. And neither is healing for ALL people, in a one shot deal..

I don't know about "No" when it comes to this topic, but "not yet" I will admit is in agreement with waiting on the Lord.

I am telling you to believe it is God's will to heal. You said that you don't believe it is God's will to heal you. How are you waiting for healing when you don't believe it is His will to heal you? Are you saying you believed in the past, and then because nothing was happening you stopped believing?

I know this can be a heated topic, and if you don't wish to partake, that is fine.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Now you're getting me. Yes, of all the hundreds of times I've asked and begged for healing, it never happened. At least not instantly. Through surgeries and medicine, I was healed. But it wasn't GOD that healed me, it was surgeries and medicine. So maybe it's more accurate for me to say I don't believe in INSTANT healing for me. I've prayed to be healed of my seizures. To date, that prayer has gone unanswered. If it DOES get answered in this lifetime, I'd probably die of a heart attack from shock. LOL....

I don't know about "No" when it comes to this topic, but "not yet" I will admit is in agreement with waiting on the Lord.

I am telling you to believe it is God's will to heal. You said that you don't believe it is God's will to heal you. How are you waiting for healing when you don't believe it is His will to heal you? Are you saying you believed in the past, and then because nothing was happening you stopped believing?

I know this can be a heated topic, and if you don't wish to partake, that is fine.

 

[DJ2]

This, again, goes back to belief. For those that don't believe "supernatural physical manifestations of the Holy Spirit" are occurring, isn't this a case of getting exactly what you believe? Wouldn't this just be a confirmation bias, of getting exactly what they believe, which is nothing for today?

As for the mundane versus the spectacular, that is subjective. Even so, there are testimonies of mighty works (blind seeing, dead raising, incurable diseases being cured, etc).

We do not get what we believe, we get what God wills. We live in an age of faith without sight. No matter how great our faith, if it is God's will for us to trust His wisdom and accept the blessings of John 20:29 so be it.

Your train of thought is the same as those who proclaim that space aliens are real.

"Space aliens are all around us, you just don't want to believe it therefore you don't see it."

Testimonies are simply claims, nothing more. There are many testimonies of space aliens with just as much validity as those presented for claims of supernatural healings. Not to mention the claims of the blind seeing and dead raising from such cults as the Mormons.

He who claims proves, he who does not prove is a fraud.


"...and the truth is not in him" 1st John 2:4

 

[wolfwint]

We do not manipulate God, we operate in accordance with His revealed will. You cannot administer healing, have faith for healing, make the prayer of faith that shall save the sick, or go about any faith related task without His word. His word created all that surrounds you, and He sustains it. The heavens, the Earth, and all of creation. When you understand His word, His will, faith can be. It can exist.

It is not teaching how we can manipulate God. It is teaching people to have faith in God, and He will reveal Himself to be faithful.

No proof - no truth. Ben, why you give false promisses? Prommisses you cant keep.
But you write sounds good, but there is no truth behind. Only an false teaching.
God never gave this promiss and our Lord healed not for to heal the body, but for to save the body and for to proof that he is who he claims to be.

 

[joaniemarie]

Was listening to a Bible message this afternoon and the preacher said it well about us Christians with our human reasoning that ALWAYS gets in the way if we don't STOP AND THINK; FAITH IN JESUS.

When Peter was walking on the water towards Jesus it was AMAZING.... but then he began to see the winds and waves get higher and got frightened and began to sink. Peter forgot in seconds that walking on water was totally supernatural from the start., he was walking on water... did he think that he could walk on water if it was peaceful?

So easily our human reasoning takes over making us idiots. MAKING US RELY ON OURSELVES EVEN UNTO SICKNESS AND DEATH.

Salvation and walking on water ...It's not natural! It's REDEMPTION. Us Christians have to stop depending on ourselves. We can't afford to do that. We can't prop up a corps that's dead. We can't rely on ourselves and our many or lack of abilities of body OR mind.

What creation can't do., redemption supplies. We have meager resources, Jesus has unending resources.

But thankfully Jesus knows our frame that we are but dust and He supplies grace each day. He supplies the Holy Spirit for us each day and He has not left us alone in our humanity. But we HAVE TO walk by faith and not by sight because otherwise we won't see what Jesus is willing and wanting to do in us and for us.

I believe in the supernatural for my every day in life. For how to do the taxes and how to take care of what the Lord has blessed me with by way of everything including job., health., loved ones,. On my own I have no ability to do any of those things or take care of myself here on earth.

 

[joaniemarie]

You are putting experience over God's word, circumstantial evidence above the truth. Subjective reality based upon one's own beliefs as the deciding factor instead of holding true to His word. What you are saying is like this.

"Peter, Jesus did not command you to walk on the water, otherwise you wouldn't have sank." Oh, but He did tell Peter to walk on the water, but he doubted, allowed fear to override the truth (commandment) and began to sink. Just because people do not experience certain promises of God in their life is not an indication that God is unfaithful or it really isn't a promise. Rather it is a call to self-examination, of what one believes (and believes for).

Ben., so true. Our faith in the love and grace of God provided by Jesus Himself IS OUR CLAIM. Fear will always over ride our faith IF WE ALLOW IT to. That is our DAILY WALK AND CHOICE and the Holy Spirit will not force us to believe. He will gently lead us to the truth of who JESUS IS AND WHO WE ARE IN CHRIST. Sons and daughters.

We have to DAILY examine what we are believing about Jesus and ourselves. Has our belief in Him been renewed DAILY Bible Holy Spirit belief ?? OR has it been tried and failed religion that has brought us no victory only adherence to tradition?

Is it the NEW AND LIVING WAY coming from the Holy Spirit rivers of LIVING WATERS flowing in and through us? That always administers grace to the hearers and confidence that Jesus IS what He said and His love never goes away., never empties out.

Just as our salvation comes by grace through faith in Jesus so do all the promises He has given in the atonement ... by grace through faith. No other way. And that way calls for us to walk in the new creation in Christ that can respond to the Holy Spirit. The flesh does not respond to the Holy Spirit. Our new man made in Christ will.

 

[Cee]

Here is where you are confusing what I’m saying and what I think most others here are saying.

I do not ever think that God can’t heal someone or just don’t have the power. That’s just ludicrous. We know God has all power in Heaven and earth so there is nothing that he can’t or won’t do when it is his will.

Now there is the key…When it is his will…

So here’s the key for me, yes we pray and have faith that God has all power to heal, but we pray according to his will. God knows what’s best and he will do what’s best for us if we put our complete faith in him. May or may not be healing…He knows the future and knows exactly what each and every person needs, and will work it out for the good.
To say let your will be done is not losing or showing a lack of faith in God, but is showing complete faith and trust in God…Knowing that his will is what is best whether it be a healing or not.

So yes, we have complete faith in him and learn to align our will with his will. Knowing that our main hope and goal is not this world, but the one to come.

Like Paul said… to live is Christ and to die is gain.

If it's not God's will, why would we take natural medications? At some level we must believe He's okay with us being healthy, but it appears to me the contradiction is if it's His will to always spiritually heal us. But taking medications, monitoring nutrition, and going doctors that's perfectly okay with Him. It appears to me that the idea is that God is a sowing and reaping God, if you're mindful and you follow His nutritional plans well then you get to enjoy abundant health, but if you're not, you brought sickness on yourself. Am I correct in this?

 

[joaniemarie]

Thank you for your candid honesty.

In respect to God's will and if its His will He will do it, well if I may say so, that is somewhat of a complacent mindset. Not you, but that specific way of thinking (doctrine, what have you). For example, God has a will and purpose for our life, but we can choose to not walk in that will. That is the liberty we have. God's will may be to heal someone, for example, but they do not believe and therefore are not healed.

Jesus went to His hometown and His will was to do mighty works, but He could not because of their unbelief (scripture says). So while God has a will, some of which He makes happen (such as prophesies), He has a will that requires our submission and obedience in order to walk into it. Jonah, for example, God was forceful with him, yes, but he was resisting God's will. He was in disobedience. Had he not repented, who knows how far God would've taken it, haha. Nonetheless His will was something to be submitted to.

God tells Peter to walk on water, Peter obeyed. His will was carried out by obedience. This means that God's will isn't always a matter of complacency, but action. Even to the lame did Jesus and the apostles say, "Rise up and walk" and they obeyed (and believed).

The point is, God's will is revealed and we ought to submit to it. In the case of healing, it has been made available to us through Christ, and the promises of God are "Yes" and "Amen" in Christ Jesus. If not only in word, in the character and nature of God (Jehovah Rapha). The way we submit to this will, is to believe. Have faith.

Yes., it is our daily choice to grow up in this faith that IS SUPERNATURAL. Many believers today don't walk in the supernatural as a way of life at all! Not only that., believers are daily looking at their surroundings and the people in their surroundings. NO don't do that!!! We cannot afford to look at other people or other circumstances or other surroundings. We are told to LOOK AWAY TO JESUS. And at all times or like Peter we will sink because we cannot do any of this faith stuff in our flesh.


We are told to daily RENEW OUR MINDS. To think much differently than what comes natural to us. We are called to the supernatural. How many believers do you know who do that? I've only met a few and I endeavor to be around them as they keep pointing me to Jesus. So when I'm on my own I know Who to depend on.

It's like that old story about fishing. Instead of depending on others to buy the fish from., hang out with people who will teach you how to fish on your own. Those who LOOK AWAY TO JESUS and encourage you to do the same!

Don't look at people including yourself. LOOK AWAY TO JESUS.

 

[joaniemarie]

And as for all the questions we all have about this subject., each and every one of them is answered on a Person to person level with JESUS HIMSELF. We are not left alone in this process as believers. Jesus knew we NEEDED the Holy Spirit to minister to us every day.

Do many here even know what His ministry is to them?? There is so much to learn about all of this and yet even while we are still in the beginning stages of our eternal life., He promises to lead us into ALL TRUTH.

Do we believe this? I AM DAILY working on this and finding Him to be Who Jesus said He IS to me.

The Holy Spirit is our personal Comforter., Guide., Teacher. Just as Jesus needed Him to comfort., teach., guide Him., so do we. Jesus did all He did in the power of the Holy Spirit as He submitted. As we must. Jesus is our example. Jesus has not left us alone.

Yet how many believers even discuss this about the HolySpirit? How many Christians live their lives apart from the daily input of the Holy Spirit ministering to THEIR spirit that they are the sons and daughters of God?

Be ye being filled. Daily. This is a choice WE MUST MAKE DAILY to let the Holy Spirit rule and reign in our lives as He shows us Jesus and who we are IN Christ.

 

[joaniemarie]

And Ben., no matter how many Bible verses you give. No matter how many good posts you post here., only the Holy Spirit can minister to the willing hearts here. Whether for physical healing or mental and emotional and spiritual healing. One on one relationship.

I've seen this in myself and in others., Christians here can disagree and they have every right to not believe. It takes the Holy Spirit to lead into the truth. To break down the giant heavy metal doors of the human mind is done by the power of the Holy Spirit.

What once was a thick heavy metal impenetrable door of human reason in my life that even "I" could not break down... the HolySpirit broke down by showing me the LOVE and GRACE of God in Jesus. That supernatural LOVE AND GRACE downed all doubt and fear. It works every day without draining out and is like living waters flowing in and through me because His love is what constrains and empowers us to do all that we are called to do today.

It's daily and it's flowing. We can't live on what we got yesterday. We need a daily infilling of the Holy Spirit. And we can point other believers here to the source but can't make them drink. No one could make me see or drink. Actually no one ever told me about the ministry of the Holy Spirit for some 40yrs. But He did show me and He will show anyone who is willing. He can take years of cold religious doors of human reason that were solid METAL and He can make them go down like paper. PRAISE THE LORD FOR HIS MERCY ENDURES FOREVER.

 

[1ofthem]

If it's not God's will, why would we take natural medications? At some level we must believe He's okay with us being healthy, but it appears to me the contradiction is if it's His will to always spiritually heal us. But taking medications, monitoring nutrition, and going doctors that's perfectly okay with Him. It appears to me that the idea is that God is a sowing and reaping God, if you're mindful and you follow His nutritional plans well then you get to enjoy abundant health, but if you're not, you brought sickness on yourself. Am I correct in this?

I don't understand what you are saying or asking here...

I don't think God is against people taking medication or he is against people being healthy and trying taking care of themselves. But medication doesn't always work and sometimes no matter how well someone takes care of themselves they still get sick.... I'm not sure if that's what you were asking me or not, though.

One thing I do know for sure, is that it is God's will to always spiritually heal us. The saving of the soul is what is most important. This is the promise of God the healing and saving of our souls.

 

[BenFTW]

I don't understand what you are saying or asking here...

I don't think God is against people taking medication or he is against people being healthy and trying taking care of themselves. But medication doesn't always work and sometimes no matter how well someone takes care of themselves they still get sick.... I'm not sure if that's what you were asking me or not, though.

One thing I do know for sure, is that it is God's will to always spiritually heal us. The saving of the soul is what is most important. This is the promise of God the healing and saving of our souls.

There is a criticism of those who say it is God's will for someone to be sick. If it is His will, why are you opposing it by seeking treatment or medication to alleviate symptoms? I think that is the idea, at least.