Healing through the Son

[1ofthem]

There is a criticism of those who say it is God's will for someone to be sick. If it is His will, why are you opposing it by seeking treatment or medication to alleviate symptoms? I think that is the idea, at least.

I've seen this criticism go the other way around too...Some people who believe that God always heals will shame folks for going to the doctor telling them they are showing a lack of faith by seeking healing from a doctor. So some folks don't even try to get medical attention and end up dying from something like diabetes because they felt like or were told that going to a doctor would be showing a lack of faith in God's ability to heal.

 

[wolfwint]

There is a criticism of those who say it is God's will for someone to be sick. If it is His will, why are you opposing it by seeking treatment or medication to alleviate symptoms? I think that is the idea, at least.

Ben, who says that it is Gods will, that someone is sick? You are not reading the posts. You are laying words in the mouth, nobody says. Instead to confess that your claim is wrong. Does God loves his folk Israel less then christians? Did he promissed the folk Israel a health life?
Why Paul must leave co- worker like Trophimus sick in Milet? (2.Tim 4,20) And do you think that God can use Medicine ore too to heal people?
You promisse that God heals all believers, will lead many in doubting God and some maby to death. Why? thats your promisses, but not Gods.

 

[BenFTW]

Ben, who says that it is Gods will, that someone is sick? You are not reading the posts. You are laying words in the mouth, nobody says. Instead to confess that your claim is wrong. Does God loves his folk Israel less then christians? Did he promissed the folk Israel a health life?
Why Paul must leave co- worker like Trophimus sick in Milet? (2.Tim 4,20) And do you think that God can use Medicine ore too to heal people?
You promisse that God heals all believers, will lead many in doubting God and some maby to death. Why? thats your promisses, but not Gods.

If we tell people that God doesn't promise healing, then truly, we have led them to their death bed. What hope have we robbed them of, and what faith have we squandered? Will you tell the sick person, "Such is life?" Or, will you tell them to have faith in God who heals, delivers and sets free?

If you do not let people know the promises of God they then have nothing to lay hold of. God has made Himself accountable to His word, because He is not a liar. Will we believe? This determines the result. If you wish to believe that it isn't God's will to heal you, then may God have mercy upon such disbelief.

We see in Acts how healing glorifies the Son, and this the Father wishes to do. Hence healing in the name of Jesus. It is God's will to heal, for healing glorifies Christ, the Father, and the Spirit. The cost of your doctrine, my friend, is the blind remain blind, the deaf still cannot hear, and the lame cannot walk. Where then is God's glory?

Wolfwint if God gave His Son for you, how little is a healing?

 

[wolfwint]

If we tell people that God doesn't promise healing, then truly, we have led them to their death bed. What hope have we robbed them of, and what faith have we squandered? Will you tell the sick person, "Such is life?" Or, will you tell them to have faith in God who heals, delivers and sets free?

If you do not let people know the promises of God they then have nothing to lay hold of. God has made Himself accountable to His word, because He is not a liar. Will we believe? This determines the result. If you wish to believe that it isn't God's will to heal you, then may God have mercy upon such disbelief.

We see in Acts how healing glorifies the Son, and this the Father wishes to do. Hence healing in the name of Jesus. It is God's will to heal, for healing glorifies Christ, the Father, and the Spirit. The cost of your doctrine, my friend, is the blind remain blind, the deaf still cannot hear, and the lame cannot walk. Where then is God's glory?

Wolfwint if God gave His Son for you, how little is a healing?

Ben, what is more important? a health mortal body ore Eternal life?
If Paul accepted Sickness in a christian life ( Timothy, Trophimus,) where is the reason to claim that christians Cab have a health life, if the have the right Faith and teaching? And where again is the Proof for your claim? How many % of sick christians receive healings in the healing Meetings? If you are right then it must be 100%. Bcause this was the rate when People came to for to be healed from our Lord Jesus. And you mentioned Acts, what People came to the Apostels? We would say Nonbelievers, People which healed the First Time the Gospel ore about Jesus. We are talking today about christians, who already know Jesus and belong to Him. How you Can compare This? Another thing is that I have the Impression that the "healer" ( the Person Sho prays) is getting more Honor then Jesus.Even he heals Not 100% of the People which comes to Him.
Praise be Him that he gave His Live for me so that I can ave eternal Live! With a sick ore health body. This doesnt matter. But that I have Eternal life does matter!!

 

[wolfwint]

Sorry there are some writing mistakes in, Hope you Can understand what I wrote in the right sense.

 

[wolfwint]

If we tell people that God doesn't promise healing, then truly, we have led them to their death bed. What hope have we robbed them of, and what faith have we squandered? Will you tell the sick person, "Such is life?" Or, will you tell them to have faith in God who heals, delivers and sets free?

If you do not let people know the promises of God they then have nothing to lay hold of. God has made Himself accountable to His word, because He is not a liar. Will we believe? This determines the result. If you wish to believe that it isn't God's will to heal you, then may God have mercy upon such disbelief.

We see in Acts how healing glorifies the Son, and this the Father wishes to do. Hence healing in the name of Jesus. It is God's will to heal, for healing glorifies Christ, the Father, and the Spirit. The cost of your doctrine, my friend, is the blind remain blind, the deaf still cannot hear, and the lame cannot walk. Where then is God's glory?

Wolfwint if God gave His Son for you, how little is a healing?

Ben, in which World you are Living? It seems to me that you Close your Eyes in Front of the reality. I Working in a Hospital. Believe me Eternal life is more important then an sick body, although nobody likes it to be sick.
And again where is the Proof for your teaching? And Please Note that I dont Doubt that Jesus heales Today too!!!!! But your teaching you can not Proof, because it is not True.

 

[BenFTW]

Ben, what is more important? a health mortal body ore Eternal life?
If Paul accepted Sickness in a christian life ( Timothy, Trophimus,) where is the reason to claim that christians Cab have a health life, if the have the right Faith and teaching? And where again is the Proof for your claim? How many % of sick christians receive healings in the healing Meetings? If you are right then it must be 100%. Bcause this was the rate when People came to for to be healed from our Lord Jesus. And you mentioned Acts, what People came to the Apostels? We would say Nonbelievers, People which healed the First Time the Gospel ore about Jesus. We are talking today about christians, who already know Jesus and belong to Him. How you Can compare This? Another thing is that I have the Impression that the "healer" ( the Person Sho prays) is getting more Honor then Jesus.Even he heals Not 100% of the People which comes to Him.
Praise be Him that he gave His Live for me so that I can ave eternal Live! With a sick ore health body. This doesnt matter. But that I have Eternal life does matter!!

The success rate isn't 100% because of our own belief (or, unbelief). Look at Jesus' disciples. They should've easily cast out a demon but as it goes, they could not. Why? Jesus told them it was because of their unbelief. They later had a success rate of 100% when at certain times it says in scripture that all were healed (through the Apostles).

Healing is for today, and the reason we don't experience it, or others don't experience it to a large extent is unbelief. Not that they don't believe that God is able (and powerful) but they do not believe He is willing. Nor do many comprehend God's will so that they may in the name of Jesus heal others, in accordance with His will (unto the glory of God).

It isn't that it must be 100%, rather it should be. Where do we fall short?

 

[BenFTW]

Ben, in which World you are Living? It seems to me that you Close your Eyes in Front of the reality. I Working in a Hospital. Believe me Eternal life is more important then an sick body, although nobody likes it to be sick.
And again where is the Proof for your teaching? And Please Note that I dont Doubt that Jesus heales Today too!!!!! But your teaching you can not Proof, because it is not True.

You would tell Peter that it wasn't God's will for him to walk on water because he sank. Yet, it was God's command. The issue is he doubted, and let fear override his faith. You say look to reality, but we do not go by sight, but faith. Reality is that if you step upon water you will sink. Yet Peter did stand upon the waves as if they were a solid floor (for a moment, until fear and doubt crept in).

You see, you keep pointing to the failures of the Church as the basis for truth. It is not. God's word prevails.

 

[wolfwint]

The success rate isn't 100% because of our own belief (or, unbelief). Look at Jesus' disciples. They should've easily cast out a demon but as it goes, they could not. Why? Jesus told them it was because of their unbelief. They later had a success rate of 100% when at certain times it says in scripture that all were healed (through the Apostles).

Healing is for today, and the reason we don't experience it, or others don't experience it to a large extent is unbelief. Not that they don't believe that God is able (and powerful) but they do not believe He is willing. Nor do many comprehend God's will so that they may in the name of Jesus heal others, in accordance with His will (unto the glory of God).

It isn't that it must be 100%, rather it should be. Where do we fall short?

Ben you will tell me that someone is praying to God without believing that God is willing to heal him ? Why then somebody should pray then? You are blameing every sick believer. You searching one excuse After the other, because you cant Proof what you claim. 100% would be normal, if you would be right. People 2000 years ago are the same Till today. The believed the Gospel, ore they believed not.
All who came to Jesus expectet healing. Do you think that a sick believer today is not expecting healing? You spread a strange teaching.
Btw you ignore that fact, that the believers today, belong already to Jesus. But not in the days of acts, ore the gospels. And not all who got healed became gods children. They only expectet a healing from their sickness and handycaps.

 

[wolfwint]

You would tell Peter that it wasn't God's will for him to walk on water because he sank. Yet, it was God's command. The issue is he doubted, and let fear override his faith. You say look to reality, but we do not go by sight, but faith. Reality is that if you step upon water you will sink. Yet Peter did stand upon the waves as if they were a solid floor (for a moment, until fear and doubt crept in).

You see, you keep pointing to the failures of the Church as the basis for truth. It is not. God's word prevails.

This you cant compare. Where God comanded his children to believe that they must not stay sick? Even believers which are open for your the teaching you spread receive 100 healing. Right teaching, right Faith, but no healing.
Which excuse you have for This?

 

[BenFTW]

This you cant compare. Where God comanded his children to believe that they must not stay sick? Even believers which are open for your the teaching you spread receive 100 healing. Right teaching, right Faith, but no healing.
Which excuse you have for This?

The commandment comparison has to do with knowing God's will, believing in that will, and acting upon that will.

I don't need to make excuses Wolfwint. It is your doctrine that makes excuses because it rids people of self-responsibility and accountability. If we are sick, do we blame God? How is it that we get angry at God when He is the one that can deliver us? Why have you accepted doctrines and belief systems that inherently dismiss faith or the call to it?

 

[joaniemarie]

The commandment comparison has to do with knowing God's will, believing in that will, and acting upon that will.

I don't need to make excuses Wolfwint. It is your doctrine that makes excuses because it rids people of self-responsibility and accountability. If we are sick, do we blame God? How is it that we get angry at God when He is the one that can deliver us? Why have you accepted doctrines and belief systems that inherently dismiss faith or the call to it?

Amen to that. Each day we are faced with the "reality" of the world.... the flesh....the devil. The only way to survive the constant turmoil those 3 things will bring is by the new reality we are called to live by; our faith in Jesus love and His many provisions. And yes., it means those things will have no power over us when we walk by faith and not by sight. Rom.8:2

[SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life [which is] in Christ Jesus [the law of our new being] has freed me from the law of sin and of death.


Even if I don't see the end of a problem today., Even if I'm feeling frustrated or even defeated., I must keep believing in the promise that Jesus loves me and will lead me as I follow. How to follow? The Holy Spirit is there to show us how to do this each day. We walk through the valley here and make it to the other side here. Faith is the victory.

Problems come but there is relief and victory to be found IN Jesus. If I become weary in well doing that is ok to a point because we humans will get weary but we can't stay there. And He gives strength in our weakness. He gives rest to the weary. He gives the gift of no condemnation as we are walking the ups and downs of life. He is with us. We must remember to NOT forget no matter what our flesh says or feels. And He brings us out to the other side.

And it's of major importance for us believers to keep pointing one another to Jesus as we go through the process of maturing.


A Psalm of David.

[SUP]1 [/SUP]The Lord is my Shepherd [to feed, guide, and shield me], I shall not lack.
[SUP]
2 [/SUP]He makes me lie down in [fresh, tender] green pastures; He leads me beside the still and restful waters.
[SUP]
3 [/SUP]He refreshes and restores my life (my self); He leads me in the paths of righteousness [uprightness and right standing with Him—not for my earning it, but] for His name’s sake.
[SUP]
4 [/SUP]Yes, though I walk through the [deep, sunless] valley of the shadow of death, I will fear or dread no evil, for You are with me; Your rod [to protect] and Your staff [to guide], they comfort me.
[SUP]
5 [/SUP]You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies. You anoint my head with [SUP][a][/SUP]oil; my [brimming] cup runs over.
[SUP]
6 [/SUP]Surely or only goodness, mercy, and unfailing love shall follow me all the days of my life, and through the length of my days
the house of the Lord [and His presence] shall be my dwelling place.
Footnotes:

1. Psalm 23:5 It is difficult for those living in a temperate climate to appreciate, but it was customary in hot climates to anoint the body with oil to protect it from excessive perspiration. When mixed with perfume, the oil imparted a delightfully refreshing and invigorating sensation. Athletes anointed their bodies as a matter of course before running a race. As the body, therefore, anointed with oil was refreshed, invigorated, and better fitted for action, so the Lord would anoint His “sheep” with the Holy Spirit, Whom oil symbolizes, to fit them to engage more freely in His service and run in the way He directs—in heavenly fellowship with Him.

 

[joaniemarie]

Part of this faith article I got in my email this week applies to this thread. I am still re learning how to pray because I always prayed the first way because I didn't know the will of the Father in these many issues of my life. Today I know and am learning to pray that way.



Jesus knew the heart of the Father. When He saw the woman bound with a spirit of infirmity, He did not pray, “Oh Father! She has been suffering for 18 long years! I beseech You, Father, have mercy on her. Please, please heal her!” No, when Jesus saw her, He immediately proclaimed, “Woman, you are loosed from your infirmity,” because He knew the heart of the Father. He knew that the Father wanted her delivered from her crippling condition.

At the end of a church service, I don’t stand and pray, “Oh God, please bless Your people. Oh God, do keep them. Oh God, be ever so gracious to them!” Instead, I proclaim, “The Lord bless you. The Lord keep you. The Lord make His face shine on you and be gracious to you!”

Beloved, when you pray, proclaim your healing, protection and provision because your Father’s heart overflows with love for you. And when you declare it, He sanctions it. When you declare it, He establishes it!

 

[wolfwint]

The commandment comparison has to do with knowing God's will, believing in that will, and acting upon that will.

I don't need to make excuses Wolfwint. It is your doctrine that makes excuses because it rids people of self-responsibility and accountability. If we are sick, do we blame God? How is it that we get angry at God when He is the one that can deliver us? Why have you accepted doctrines and belief systems that inherently dismiss faith or the call to it?

So then according your statement Paul and Trophimus had a false believesystem and a false doctrine which inherently dismiss faith ore the call to it? Still I miss your proof that all who following your " believesysten and doctrine" get healed.

 

[BenFTW]

So then according your statement Paul and Trophimus had a false believesystem and a false doctrine which inherently dismiss faith ore the call to it? Still I miss your proof that all who following your " believesysten and doctrine" get healed.

There are different factors to consider, but this does not refute God's willingness to heal. Just because a person becomes sick doesn't mean that God isn't willing to heal them. If I am plowing down unhealthy foods all of the time this will have a negative affect upon my body and may cause me to be in necessity of God's healing power. There are things in the natural that affect our well-being, but also too there is God's providence and protection (a matter of faith, and covenant). The blood of Jesus...

People have autoimmune diseases that God heals. Believers do get sick, but they also get well.

For the record, it looks like Trophimus recovered because he was later seen with the Apostle Paul.

​

Acts 21:29 King James Version (KJV)

29 (For they had seen before with him in the city Trophimus an Ephesian, whom they supposed that Paul had brought into the temple.)

You seem to try to use people's experience as the measuring stick for truth, but such a method is flawed. Even the disciples failed at things because of their lack of faith and disbelief. Yet they matured and eventually had such a level of belief/faith that God's word speaks of occasions where they healed everyone/all.

The proof that you're looking for is one of which you will need to walk yourself. When you see God's faithfulness, it'll stir in you faith. I could show you all the evidence in the world, give you links and videos, but where it truly will impact you is for you, yourself, to walk it out and believe God.

I am not speaking negativity into your life, what I am speaking of is for you to see an area in your life already, and ask the Lord to resolve it, and then start praising Him for such resolution (in advance). See how faith in God will transform your situation. Believe that He is good, and faithful. That He desires good for you, and not sickness. Pray with expectation, with faith, and not just a prayer of hope but certainty.

 

[wolfwint]

There are different factors to consider, but this does not refute God's willingness to heal. Just because a person becomes sick doesn't mean that God isn't willing to heal them. If I am plowing down unhealthy foods all of the time this will have a negative affect upon my body and may cause me to be in necessity of God's healing power. There are things in the natural that affect our well-being, but also too there is God's providence and protection (a matter of faith, and covenant). The blood of Jesus...

People have autoimmune diseases that God heals. Believers do get sick, but they also get well.

For the record, it looks like Trophimus recovered because he was later seen with the Apostle Paul.

​

Acts 21:29 King James Version (KJV)

29 (For they had seen before with him in the city Trophimus an Ephesian, whom they supposed that Paul had brought into the temple.)

You seem to try to use people's experience as the measuring stick for truth, but such a method is flawed. Even the disciples failed at things because of their lack of faith and disbelief. Yet they matured and eventually had such a level of belief/faith that God's word speaks of occasions where they healed everyone/all.

The proof that you're looking for is one of which you will need to walk yourself. When you see God's faithfulness, it'll stir in you faith. I could show you all the evidence in the world, give you links and videos, but where it truly will impact you is for you, yourself, to walk it out and believe God.

I am not speaking negativity into your life, what I am speaking of is for you to see an area in your life already, and ask the Lord to resolve it, and then start praising Him for such resolution (in advance). See how faith in God will transform your situation. Believe that He is good, and faithful. That He desires good for you, and not sickness. Pray with expectation, with faith, and not just a prayer of hope but certainty.

Ben, now I am over 30 years expierience Gods faithfulness. I was 20 years involved in mission ministry in India. I met people which got healed and others who died. And you tell me know its depend on a believesystem wether God heals ore not. It depends on healthy food? Then go to the poor people in this world and tell them they have to eat healthy food. I met much faith among this material poor christians, but not all get healed.
It seems around you there are living no christians with any sickness and deseases and you also was never suck in your live. And go me away with links and videos. There is such much fake in the net, that I have no reason to believe it. Even if it comes from healing preachers and ministries.

And again, you cant proof what you claim. In oppsite the sripture proofes that What it claimes.

 

[wolfwint]

There are different factors to consider, but this does not refute God's willingness to heal. Just because a person becomes sick doesn't mean that God isn't willing to heal them. If I am plowing down unhealthy foods all of the time this will have a negative affect upon my body and may cause me to be in necessity of God's healing power. There are things in the natural that affect our well-being, but also too there is God's providence and protection (a matter of faith, and covenant). The blood of Jesus...

People have autoimmune diseases that God heals. Believers do get sick, but they also get well.

For the record, it looks like Trophimus recovered because he was later seen with the Apostle Paul.

​

Acts 21:29 King James Version (KJV)

29 (For they had seen before with him in the city Trophimus an Ephesian, whom they supposed that Paul had brought into the temple.)

You seem to try to use people's experience as the measuring stick for truth, but such a method is flawed. Even the disciples failed at things because of their lack of faith and disbelief. Yet they matured and eventually had such a level of belief/faith that God's word speaks of occasions where they healed everyone/all.

The proof that you're looking for is one of which you will need to walk yourself. When you see God's faithfulness, it'll stir in you faith. I could show you all the evidence in the world, give you links and videos, but where it truly will impact you is for you, yourself, to walk it out and believe God.

I am not speaking negativity into your life, what I am speaking of is for you to see an area in your life already, and ask the Lord to resolve it, and then start praising Him for such resolution (in advance). See how faith in God will transform your situation. Believe that He is good, and faithful. That He desires good for you, and not sickness. Pray with expectation, with faith, and not just a prayer of hope but certainty.

Ben, concerning Trophimus. 2.Tim. was later then ( it is Pauls last letter written in Rom)Acts 21, 29 when Paul was in Jerusalem. Why should Paul mention Trophimus sick in Milet when he was with him in Jerusalem(acts 21,29)?. So this must be an different time. And we dont know wether Trophimus recovered ore not!

 

[garee]

If we tell people that God doesn't promise healing, then truly, we have led them to their death bed. What hope have we robbed them of, and what faith have we squandered? Will you tell the sick person, "Such is life?" Or, will you tell them to have faith in God who heals, delivers and sets free?

If you do not let people know the promises of God they then have nothing to lay hold of. God has made Himself accountable to His word, because He is not a liar. Will we believe? This determines the result. If you wish to believe that it isn't God's will to heal you, then may God have mercy upon such disbelief.

We see in Acts how healing glorifies the Son, and this the Father wishes to do. Hence healing in the name of Jesus. It is God's will to heal, for healing glorifies Christ, the Father, and the Spirit. The cost of your doctrine, my friend, is the blind remain blind, the deaf still cannot hear, and the lame cannot walk. Where then is God's glory?

Wolfwint if God gave His Son for you, how little is a healing?

How little is a new creation?​

 

[garee]

If we tell people that God doesn't promise healing,then truly, we have led them to their death bed. What hope have we robbed themof, and what faith have we squandered? Will you tell the sick person,"Such is life?" Or, will you tell them to have faith in God whoheals, delivers and sets free?

And if they pray for healing but he leads them to the death bed. Then what? Perhaps the wrong kind of hands were laid on, or improper oil?

No promises for physical healings. If they have sinned they will be forgiven.

The Jews required a sign before they would believe God heard them rather than walking by faith

The Bible does inform us that God cares for us He is the Creator of the world, and He upholds it by His power and we are to pray for one another. And in James 5 it does speak about anointing someone with oil if they are ill, even though the context would show, if we look to the end of the matter, that this anointing with oil was really a symbol of bringing the Gospel to this one who was ill and the healing that was looked for there was spiritual healing rather than physical healing.

Actually, it is not God's purpose to guarantee healing for us, or to necessarily provide healing for us. He does heal. All healing comes from God. And ordinarily God does this because He is the Creator God, who cares for His universe. And if someone is ill, we have the privilege of going to the Lord to beseech the Lord on behalf of this one that is ill. But that miraculous healing of the Bible is something that is not typical for today.

 

[joaniemarie]

As far as healing goes I believe it is most certainly for today as are all the promises in Christ are yes and amen. Finding out what they are should be our daily business. When I read the Psalms (particularly Psalm 23 & 91) and see the total impossibility of those promises given to the people under the law and the condition to see those promises comes to pass when they follow that law.......,

I know the promises for us today are much more and far better because Jesus Himself has paid for and made possible for all those promises to come to pass in our lives BY FAITH. That is the condition in the new covenant. Just as all the gifts of the Holy Spirit are for today.

I posted part of this article on another thread but it also has to do with this thread because healing is another promise we have been given in Christ. Anyone who reads this is free to agree or disagree. I'm not trying to convince anyone., But I am trying to put something before you to think about on your own as you read the Bible and allow the Holy Spirit to teach. I've discovered He wants us to be willing and desireous of the promises.


Part of an article on gifts not written by me.....
.....................................
Mark 16:17-18, Jesus said all true believers would flow in the miraculous: “And these signs will follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.” If a Christian’s life isn’t supernatural, it’s superficial.

Mark goes on to say that messages based in God’s Word would be confirmed by signs following: “So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.”

Jesus even said, “If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not” (John 10:37). That’s a strong statement. If we were to apply that standard to ministers today, most wouldn’t be believed.

The vast majority of preaching done in the name of the Lord today is without the power of the Holy Spirit manifest through the gifts of the Holy Spirit. This is not the way the Lord intended it to be.

The “main line” denominations have developed doctrines to cope with this obvious discrepancy. However, regardless of the rationale, it’s absurd to think that we can be effective without the power of the Holy Spirit confirming the preaching of God’s Word. If Jesus and the early apostles needed their preaching validated, how can we do any less?

Even the non-denominational churches have fallen away from ministering in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. The gifts that operate in most “Spirit-filled” churches are simply words of exhortation ..... There is much more.........................