Health, Wealth & Prosperity

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JohnR7

Active member
Dec 30, 2019
305
89
28
#1
My wife believes that Health is Wealth. A person would give all of their wealth in order to have good health. The question centers more on prosperity and how do we define Bible Prosperity. Even the NIV wants to use this word in Jeremiah 29:16 "For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future."

We are told in Psalm 139:16 that God writes the book of our life before we are even born. Every chapter and every verse. So that God's desire for us is written in a book that the Angels can read to help us to become the person God wants and intends for us to be. Does God want us to prosper and to be in good health? How can we understand Moses when he tells us that God's desire is for us to prosper? Again this is the NIV word because the KJV says: "See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;" Perhaps like Eve in the Garden we choose between good and evil in life.

"But the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you may obey it. See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, as well as death and disaster. For I am commanding you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, statutes, and ordinances, so that you may live and increase, and the LORD your God may bless you in the land that you are entering to possess" (Deuteronomy 30:14,15,16)

https://biblehub.com/text/deuteronomy/30-15.htm
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
7,706
923
113
#2
My wife believes that Health is Wealth. A person would give all of their wealth in order to have good health. The question centers more on prosperity and how do we define Bible Prosperity. Even the NIV wants to use this word in Jeremiah 29:16 "For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future."

We are told in Psalm 139:16 that God writes the book of our life before we are even born. Every chapter and every verse. So that God's desire for us is written in a book that the Angels can read to help us to become the person God wants and intends for us to be. Does God want us to prosper and to be in good health? How can we understand Moses when he tells us that God's desire is for us to prosper? Again this is the NIV word because the KJV says: "See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;" Perhaps like Eve in the Garden we choose between good and evil in life.

"But the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you may obey it. See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, as well as death and disaster. For I am commanding you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, statutes, and ordinances, so that you may live and increase, and the LORD your God may bless you in the land that you are entering to possess" (Deuteronomy 30:14,15,16)

https://biblehub.com/text/deuteronomy/30-15.htm
Not to be a downer but the Jeremiah and Deuteronomy passages are promises to Israel not the Church.
 
Sep 3, 2016
3,929
346
83
#3
My wife believes that Health is Wealth. A person would give all of their wealth in order to have good health. The question centers more on prosperity and how do we define Bible Prosperity. Even the NIV wants to use this word in Jeremiah 29:16 "For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future."
“2 Beloved, I wish above all things that you may prosper (refers to financial prosperity, and should be the case for every Believer) and be in health (speaks of physical prosperity), even as your soul prospers (speaks of Spiritual Prosperity; so we have here the whole Gospel for the whole man).” 3 John 2

JSM
 

JohnR7

Active member
Dec 30, 2019
305
89
28
#4
Not to be a downer but the Jeremiah and Deuteronomy passages are promises to Israel not the Church.
We do have a better covenant with better promises. Even as the Church at the end of this age has more power then we had in the beginning.
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
2,165
378
83
#5
If God blesses us with money and material things above our needs then it violates love is the fulfilling of the law which includes feeding and clothing the poor and needy, so God would only bless us with our needs, and God does only bless us with our needs.

Paul said charity is greater than faith.

Paul said if anybody preaches that God blesses the saints with their wants above their needs then withdraw yourselves from them, having food ans clothing be content.

For the love of money is the root of all evil for it neglects the poor and needy.

And the saints appear poor to the world but possess all things to be given them in the future.

The early Church sold all that they had that was not a necessity and distributed the money to the saints that had need.

God wants people to prosper but only by their needs, not their wants, for God loves people not blessing the saints with money for personal use that has nothing to do with their needs, but their wants, for then it is not love towards people.

Some people suppose that godliness is gain, from such withdraw yourselves, having food and clothing be content.

Anything that is not a necessity the saints do not get unless they want to violate love which then faith is dead.

For love is greater than faith.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
2,336
455
83
#7
We do have a better covenant with better promises. Even as the Church at the end of this age has more power then we had in the beginning.
Our new covenant has nothing todo with living as christians in health and wealth. And the church will disapear on this earth when Jesus comes to take the believers. This willbe soon. So from what you mean with: end of the age?
 

JohnR7

Active member
Dec 30, 2019
305
89
28
#8
And the church will disapear on this earth when Jesus comes to take the believers.
The true church will disappear. The question is will the world be able to tell the difference because the counterfeit church will still be here. Even though they say babies and children will be taken. I still learn toward a secret hidden rapture.
 

JohnR7

Active member
Dec 30, 2019
305
89
28
#9
So this is a feebly veiled KJV onlyist thread.
KJV leave a LOT to be desired. But this is the one that God honors when He says HE will do what HE says HE will do. One example is Deut4:11 "That I will give you the rain of your land in his due season, the first rain and the latter rain, that thou mayest gather in thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil." There was no corn. The proper translation is grain. Jesus was offered as a grain offering. This has to do with the final harvest and to bring people into the Church and a saving knowledge of God. Although in a literal sense farmers do need the rain to bring in their harvest no matter what grain they are growing.
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
2,165
378
83
#10
The Old Testament was a physical covenant with physical promises, but the New Testament is a spiritual covenant with spiritual promises, which is why they could prosper in money and material things in the Old, but not in the New.

For love is the fulfilling of the law.

We are not to expect physical blessings, but spiritual blessings, and God's kingdom is love, so if you go by your wants above your needs how do you love people if you love physical things more than loving people.

What purpose is going by your wants having more than your needs for what are you going to do with it enjoy the world and it's ways, and own lands and houses, and things you do not need to survive.

1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness(money, material): from such withdraw thyself.
1Ti 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.
1Ti 6:7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
1Ti 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.

Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked.

Again what is the purpose of a saint having more than their needs having their wants when God's kingdom is love which includes feeding and clothing people which will never lack, and Jesus said feed and clothe your enemies.

How do you have any money for your needs if you have to feed and clothe the poor and needy which there are more of them than you can help.

The Bible says having food and clothing be content what is there not to understand.

If you want to be worldly than admit it.

They say we do not go by the Old Testament but when it comes to going by their wants they say we go by the Old Testament, which these people are only being greedy neglecting the poor and needy.

And there are many that go by the prosperity Gospel and do not care about the poor and needy, and enjoying the world.

That is why Jesus told the rich man to sell all he has and give to the poor to be able to enter heaven for that is love, but he did not want to do it.
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
2,737
107
63
#11
If God blesses us with money and material things above our needs then it violates love is the fulfilling of the law which includes feeding and clothing the poor and needy, so God would only bless us with our needs, and God does only bless us with our needs.

Paul said charity is greater than faith.

Paul said if anybody preaches that God blesses the saints with their wants above their needs then withdraw yourselves from them, having food ans clothing be content.

For the love of money is the root of all evil for it neglects the poor and needy.

And the saints appear poor to the world but possess all things to be given them in the future.

The early Church sold all that they had that was not a necessity and distributed the money to the saints that had need.

God wants people to prosper but only by their needs, not their wants, for God loves people not blessing the saints with money for personal use that has nothing to do with their needs, but their wants, for then it is not love towards people.

Some people suppose that godliness is gain, from such withdraw yourselves, having food and clothing be content.

Anything that is not a necessity the saints do not get unless they want to violate love which then faith is dead.

For love is greater than faith.
What a load of cow poop!
I find it interesting how many so-called Christians ignore the scriptures already written, only to put their own spine on the doctrine without scripture.
It is written BY GOD, NOT YOU, through John, "Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth."

The Rich Man and Lazarus
Luk 16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
Luk 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
Luk 16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things G18 , and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

Mat 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things G18 to them [His children] that ask him?

I have a couple of points to make between the two above scriptures.
What was the "rich man" known for?
His wealth, obviously, and most likely, he had good health.
What was Lazarus known for?
A beggar, poor, with some types of sicknesses and/or diseases.
What did Abraham say the rich man received in His lifetime compared to the beggar?
He said, "you received you good things" while lazarus, who was both poor and sick, received evil things.
Jesus said, wealth is a good thing or a blessing, and sickness and poverty, are evil things or a curse.
God wants to bless His children with good things, which includes wealth.
By asking for only YOUR NEEDS, and NOT the needs of others, you are being stingy thinking of yourself, and not the needs of others.
Just in case you haven't figure it out yet, only those who HAVE, CAN GIVE, and the wealthy have a lot more to give than the poor do.
If you have nothing to give above your own needs and that of your family, then how is that loving your neighbor as yourself?
The truth then is, it is you who is the one who is breaking the law of love, by not asking for more so you can give to others, NOT the other way around, UNLESS the rich don't give either.
In Matt 7, Jesus said God WANTS to give His children the same kind of good things, the rich man was given.
Having or even asking for money or wealth is NOT evil, the LOVE OF MONEY, IS!!!
I know some poor people who lust for after the money they don't and can't have.
And I know many who TRUST in their riches or wealth.
That too is evil or bad.
I have come to learn, some of the meanest and cruelest people on God's green earth, are the religious, LAW AND RULES ORIENTED, kind of people. Like the Jewish leader Jesus dealt with.
The same kind of evil people who call good, evil and evil, good. Like calling wealth, bad, and poverty and sickness, good.
The same kind who believes and advocates that a child of God needs to suffer for Christ, through poverty, sicknesses, and diseases, while spreading hate for the GOOD THINGS God promised through Christ.
All these things, Jesus bore and took, that we might not have to.
You negate Christ's work on the cross by propagating the anti health and wealth doctrine.
Good health and much wealth is a scriptural truth, just like WOF IS, NOT the contrary.
And as for God giving us our needs and not our wants, haven't you read Mk 11:24?

Mar 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
 

JohnR7

Active member
Dec 30, 2019
305
89
28
#12
Our new covenant has nothing todo with living as christians in health and wealth.
The question has to do with the God we serve. Does He want us to be sick? I think that sickness is a work of the enemy. God writes the book of our life before we are even born. (Psalm139:16) I do not think sickness was ever a part of His plan for us. We can not blame God for the mess man and the devil has made out of His Creation. He is getting everything in order and putting everything right, back to His Plan, Purpose and Intention. I could say He is restoring righteousness, but I keep it simple and just say He is doing a work to make things right again. Like in Genesis 1:4 "God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good," God's plan and purpose was for this world to be GOOD. He is doing a work to restore that goodness back to His Creation. I am becoming who God wants me to be. I am being transformed into the Person that He intended to Create. We should never confess that sin and sickness was every a part of God's plan for us. That was the devil's plan, not God. God wants us to live free from sin and sickness. He provided a way for us to do that through the Blood of Jesus. So we could live free and the abundant life.

We have health or sickness, wealth or poverty. These are comparisons that our mind needs to function. God wants to deliver us from poverty. Not to little, not to much, just the right amount. "Keep falsehood and deceitful words far from me. Give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with the bread that is my portion. Otherwise, I may have too much and deny You, saying, “Who is the LORD?” Or I may become poor and steal, profaning the name of my God." (Proverbs30:8,9)
 

JohnR7

Active member
Dec 30, 2019
305
89
28
#13
If you want to be worldly than admit it.
We can have the world and the things of the world if we want, but we are to want treasures in Heaven. "Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full." (Matthew 6:4) " store up for yourselves treasures in heaven" (Matthew 6:20)
 

JohnR7

Active member
Dec 30, 2019
305
89
28
#14
So from what you mean with: end of the age?
There are many names for the age we live in. The Church Age, the Time of the Gentiles, The Holy Spirit Dispensation. When this age ends we enter into the Kingdom age. The Millennium when we will rule and rain with Christ for 1,000 years. Then there will be a new heaven and a new earth. I esp like the passage in Isaiah 9:6&7 that people put in their Christmas cards: "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and the government will be upon His shoulders. And He will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Of the increase of His government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on the throne of David and over his kingdom, to establish and sustain it with justice and righteousness from that time and forevermore. The zeal of the LORD of Hosts will accomplish this." This is what we all have to look forward to.
 

JohnR7

Active member
Dec 30, 2019
305
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28
#15
only those who HAVE, CAN GIVE,
This is a on going struggle for my wife. She wants to help as many people as she can. Esp starting with her family and her nieces and nephews. She does what she can to help them and esp to help the ones that are in school with their education. If she does buy something for herself, she does this with the thought that at some point in time she will give it away and pass it on to someone else. She is generous with everyone and she is generous with me also.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
16,391
3,264
113
#16
The question has to do with the God we serve. Does He want us to be sick? I think that sickness is a work of the enemy. God writes the book of our life before we are even born. (Psalm139:16) I do not think sickness was ever a part of His plan for us. We can not blame God for the mess man and the devil has made out of His Creation. He is getting everything in order and putting everything right, back to His Plan, Purpose and Intention. I could say He is restoring righteousness, but I keep it simple and just say He is doing a work to make things right again. Like in Genesis 1:4 "God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good," God's plan and purpose was for this world to be GOOD. He is doing a work to restore that goodness back to His Creation. I am becoming who God wants me to be. I am being transformed into the Person that He intended to Create. We should never confess that sin and sickness was every a part of God's plan for us. That was the devil's plan, not God. God wants us to live free from sin and sickness. He provided a way for us to do that through the Blood of Jesus. So we could live free and the abundant life.

We have health or sickness, wealth or poverty. These are comparisons that our mind needs to function. God wants to deliver us from poverty. Not to little, not to much, just the right amount. "Keep falsehood and deceitful words far from me. Give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with the bread that is my portion. Otherwise, I may have too much and deny You, saying, “Who is the LORD?” Or I may become poor and steal, profaning the name of my God." (Proverbs30:8,9)
Our Maker allows illness in all. What about the children born with Rickets? I was one of them. I thank our Father for everything, evenwhatever illness or condition comes my way. They demonstrate to me fully that we live in a body allied to decay. It demonstrates the same of the creation of this age.

No one who believes is the least concerned with illness coming his or her way exscept possibly for its impact on those close to them.

God's will be done always and be thankful it is, amen.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
7,706
923
113
#17
We do have a better covenant with better promises. Even as the Church at the end of this age has more power then we had in the beginning.
Yes, but our promises are not physical promises, yet spiritual blessings in the heavenly places.
 

JamOn

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2019
2,192
853
113
#18
Does God have plans for the ignorant and unstable in the street heading for destruction?
 
Jan 5, 2020
263
58
28
#19
My wife believes that Health is Wealth. A person would give all of their wealth in order to have good health. The question centers more on prosperity and how do we define Bible Prosperity. Even the NIV wants to use this word in Jeremiah 29:16 "For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future."

We are told in Psalm 139:16 that God writes the book of our life before we are even born. Every chapter and every verse. So that God's desire for us is written in a book that the Angels can read to help us to become the person God wants and intends for us to be. Does God want us to prosper and to be in good health? How can we understand Moses when he tells us that God's desire is for us to prosper? Again this is the NIV word because the KJV says: "See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;" Perhaps like Eve in the Garden we choose between good and evil in life.

"But the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you may obey it. See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, as well as death and disaster. For I am commanding you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, statutes, and ordinances, so that you may live and increase, and the LORD your God may bless you in the land that you are entering to possess" (Deuteronomy 30:14,15,16)

https://biblehub.com/text/deuteronomy/30-15.htm
Amen, God promises wealth in heaven, wealth in relationships, love, truthfulness, purity, holiness, faithfulness, consistency, friendships, family, work, success.

What more do we want other than to be with Him?
 
Jan 3, 2019
78
67
18
#20
Rev 3:18
I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see.