Heaven/Hell

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radical_christian

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#1
Today, I had a friend ask me the following: ( I rephrased it)

If God knows that a certain person is going to die rejecting him, and he also knows that this person is going to wind up in the lake of fire, then why in the world would he allow that person to be created? If he knows that a person is going to end up in hell, then what is the sense of allowing him to even be born?

I felt a little bit useless. I had no idea what to tell him except that God gave humanity free will. What do you think?

Thanks in advance and God bless you all.
 
C

Cup-of-Ruin

Guest
#2
Today, I had a friend ask me the following: ( I rephrased it)

If God knows that a certain person is going to die rejecting him, and he also knows that this person is going to wind up in the lake of fire, then why in the world would he allow that person to be created? If he knows that a person is going to end up in hell, then what is the sense of allowing him to even be born?

I felt a little bit useless. I had no idea what to tell him except that God gave humanity free will. What do you think?

Thanks in advance and God bless you all.
John 8:42-46

"Jesus said unto them, "If God were your Father, ye would love Me: for I proceedeth forth and come from God; neither came I of Myself, but He sent Me. Why do you not understand Me? Even because ye cannot understand My word. Ye are of your father the devil and the lusts of your father ye will do, he was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him, when he speaketh a lie, he speaketh on his own: for he is a liar and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe Me not, he that is of God heareth God's word: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not from God."

So the answer is exactly what Jesus told the Jews here in John chapter 8, basically some are not from God, God is not the Father of all, some are liars and of the devil, you see He says if you are not hearing My words that are from God, then you are not from God, you are a liar and therefore the father of that lie, God is truth, if ye do not hear the truth, then you are not from God. The devils own seed is present on the earth, one must understand that if they are to preach the Gospel.
 
Sep 27, 2009
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#3
I tend to believe that heaven is a clear conscience and hell is a guilty conscience. When you are in heaven and you sin, you go to hell. When you are in hell and repent of your sin, you go back to heaven. This remains true for all of eternity. Read this:

[17] "Yet your people say, `The way of the Lord is not just'; when it is their own way that is not just.
[18] When the righteous turns from his righteousness, and commits iniquity, he shall die for it.
[19] And when the wicked turns from his wickedness, and does what is lawful and right, he shall live by it.
[20] Yet you say, `The way of the Lord is not just.' O house of Israel, I will judge each of you according to his ways." Ezekiel 33:17-20 (RSV)


After we die we don’t go to heaven or hell. Instead we pass on to the Resurrection where we spend eternity with the Lord.
 
G

Graybeard

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#4
gee Bob, with a belief like that I urge you to have a closer look at the scriptures...
 
A

african_queen

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#6
romans 6:23' for the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternaly life through Jesus Christ our Lord'. if there is eternal life..obviously there is eternal death. why do u think God has given u all this time on earth to repent of ur sins! y wuld Jesus even bother to come to earth and die fr our sins if our salvation was that easy. howcome the devil was cast out from heaven and nver told to return. the bible says that God is light and in him is no darkness. have u ever seen light and darkness in the same place! impossibl. thats what sin is ;darkness ,and light repels darkness. u wuld emediatly die in the prensence of God if there was even a dot of sin in u.
 
Sep 27, 2009
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#7
For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16 RSV
 
C

Cup-of-Ruin

Guest
#8
I tend to believe that heaven is a clear conscience and hell is a guilty conscience. When you are in heaven and you sin, you go to hell. When you are in hell and repent of your sin, you go back to heaven. This remains true for all of eternity. Read this:

[17] "Yet your people say, `The way of the Lord is not just'; when it is their own way that is not just.
[18] When the righteous turns from his righteousness, and commits iniquity, he shall die for it.
[19] And when the wicked turns from his wickedness, and does what is lawful and right, he shall live by it.
[20] Yet you say, `The way of the Lord is not just.' O house of Israel, I will judge each of you according to his ways." Ezekiel 33:17-20 (RSV)

After we die we don’t go to heaven or hell. Instead we pass on to the Resurrection where we spend eternity with the Lord.
Bob,

Do you agree that the Christians will be resurrected on earth and will stay on earth to be part of God's kingdom, which is coming to earth, i.e. new Jerusalem coming down from heaven? I am of the understanding that Christians do not go to heaven, indeed as it says God will dwell among us on the new earth.
 
Sep 27, 2009
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#9
The Lord is always with us. We should be in constant communication with him. Even as I write this, I should be communicating with him. The idea that someday he’s going to suddenly appear, as if he hasn’t been with us all along, is sort of strange to me. Still, Revelation does say he is coming in the flesh, so we best all be prepared in case that happens.

Jesus speaks frequently of heaven, if I am not mistaken, so I imagine heaven exists and we are all candidates for heaven. I believe New Jerusalem is heaven.

I think we will probably die and then go on to the Resurrection, but as I said, we best be prepared in case the Resurrection comes sooner than that.
 
S

songster

Guest
#10
In the beginning God formed man, Gen 2:7 . But that was the first time God directly formed a being in his likeness. Once sin entered the scenario, God spoke to satan, saying “I will put enmity, (meaning hostility), between you and the woman and between your offspring and hers. Gen 2:15 .

A post flood commandment was given to Noah in Gen. 9:1, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth”. This command has been fulfilled and is being fulfilled. There are two parts to the creation of a life, the will of God, (in that he has already spoken the commandment to multiply and to be fruitful), and the will of man. The second man created in God’s likeness, by the will of God alone, was Jesus, the Christ, (also known as the second Adam), through the virgin birth.

Fallen angels were not given the ability to form beings, but rather, only to influence/alter the mental, physical and spiritual states of what has already been created or in other words what is born through natural means, using God’s command to their advantage. Even in times when angels procreated with mankind during the pre-flood era, they depended on God’s creation to give birth. It is not defined exactly how this comingling of spirit and flesh occurred, but it is a matter of biblical history that these beings found earthly women beautiful and married the ones they chose. Their offspring were thought to be the Nephilim, (Giants, heroes and men of renown, Gen 6:4) There are no other documented occurrences of angelic beings copulating with earthly women and producing a seed, following the flood.
The command ‘to be fruitful’, continues to be obeyed, as does man’s role in creation.

However God had foreknowledge of those who would believe on the Christ/Anointed One/Messiah (this is also known as predestination, not to be confused with preselection, which is calvanism). These are considered to have been born not of natural descent, not of human decision or man’s will, but these are born of God /John 1:13, and thereby receive their new identity as children of God.

There are a number of scriptures which characterize the seed/offspring of the enemy, (those who will maintain their original state of unbelief), even though the creation of these human beings cannot be solely attributed to satan, (satan does not create the soul or the spirit of a man). These individuals are his by default, through their unbelief. In Gen 2:15 they are known as the offspring of the wicked one, In Matthew 13:38 they are known as ‘Weeds’, and ‘, In Romans 9:22 they are the ’vessels of wrath’.

But, just as their unbelief makes them children of the enemy, by default, they are also creations of God. God is credited with being the one through whom ‘all things’ were made/ John 1:3. God’s love is available to them, but there is a clear distinction between the relationship between God and His children, and the offspring of satan. Psalm 7:11 says, God is angry with the wicked everyday.

The prophet Daniel wrote, “ Many will be purified, and made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand.

Romans 9:8, It is not the children of the flesh (those created in obedience to the commandment to be fruitful, combined with mans will), who are God’s children, but the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring. II Peter 3:9, It is not God’s will that anyone perish, (is condemned, sent to hell, separated from God eternally), but that everyone would come to repentance. Psalm 37:28. The Lord loves the just and will not forsake his faithful ones. They will be protected forever, but the offspring of the wicked will be cut off. Psalm 91:8, With your own eyes, you will behold and see the reward of the wicked.
 
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Sep 27, 2009
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#11
From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matthew 4:17 RSV

If you repent, your conscience is clear—you are in heaven, I think.
 
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