Hell. It is in the Bible isnt it?

[organicbeast]

Would that be everlasting death though? death is nothingness, no activity, no thought, nada, zilch, absolutely nothing, the human being has perished and turned into dust, even secularists are aware of this. Some say there is no real proof that God put a soul inside of adams physical body. Humans are not superior over animals and all go to the same place at death, and king david never ascended to heaven, at least that is what the Bible writers claim.


So, people agree that hell is in the Bible but people disagree on the interpretation of hell and what happens in hell, that's what I observe anyway.

Basically Ahwatukee is referring to the word "olethros", there was a study I ran into and here it is:

The Greek word translated destruction is ολεθρος (olethros), and it occurs in only 3 other places in the New Testament (1 Cor 5:5, 1 Thes 5:3 and 1 Tim 6:9). This is not enough to establish its meaning without further evidence from elsewhere. Ολεθρος comes from a verb root ολλυμι (ollumi). This root is not used in the NT, but its compound form απολλυμι has 2 basic meanings. 1: to destroy (kill or perish), 2: to be lost.

He believes 2) applies in his case, and therefore destruction can't mean complete destruction of soul(consciousness)

Ok, if that is the case, then the very word 'eternity' is mistranslated by them, because the Greek meaning points to something else.

Here it is:

The Greek word aiwn (αιων) means an age, and the phrase eis ton aiwna (εις τον αιωνα) literally means to the age, but most English Bibles translate it for ever. Similarly the Greek adjective aiwnios (αιωνιος) derived from aiwn, literally means age-lasting, but is generally translated eternal or everlasting. Similar things are true in the Old Testament of the Hebrew word olam.

The difference between these two ways of translating is absolutely radical. Everlasting and forever both imply time with no limit or end. Age-lasting and to the age are both uncertain in duration, but imply a limited time. Limited punishment is compatible with other teaching in the Bible about the restitution of all things (Acts 3: 21) and God reconciling all things to himself (Col 1: 20). Unlimited punishment is incompatible with these teachings.

The whole traditional teaching of eternal torment rests on the translation of these words. As they stand in most English (and other language) translations of the Bible they leave no room for any other interpretation of the scriptures. Once they are replaced with their more literal translations the traditional teaching of Eternal Torment collapses.

My advise to you would be: Pray to Christ and do your own research. Why would you listen to anybody that turns God worse than the morality of a human being?

 

[organicbeast]

Hello organicbeast,

The problem is that, you are insinuating that people are entitled to salvation, they are not. No one is, not even those who believe in Christ. It's a free gift and God is the One doing the saving. Point being, if God didn't want to save any of those people that you mention, He would not be unfair, because as I said, no one is entitled to salvation. By your post you act as though God owes them something, as though God is required to offer salvation to them. To be clear, if God didn't want to save a single person on the earth, he would not be in the wrong for not doing so because again, everyone is a sinner and no one is entitled to salvation. And regarding people being tortured, yes, and that because of sin.

Like you yourself has mentioned previously.
Romans 9:18 - "So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills."
Romans 2:6 - "He will render to each one according to his works:"

So, do you sit at the right hand of Christ to claim that there will be not a single soul before Christ came to earth whom the Lord will have mercy? You believe Christ is the author of salvation, so why not leave it up to Christ to judge and have mercy on whom He will. Or will you object Christ himself? (;

 

[Ahwatukee]

What does it matter if a person spends Eternity in the Lake of Fire or is destroyed by God and ceases to exist?

Hello Mec99,

The answer is simply that it is departure from the truth.

 

[VCO]

Sir, you are much older than me in your faith. I do not mean to be rude but did you read what I said?

Ok. I will state it again for you.

Before Christ (NT) physically came to earth to die for the sins of mankind, there were Israelites (OT), and many other nations like Africa, India and China with many people populated in those lands [gentiles]

Do you believe that the Israelites in the OT were travelling all around the world preaching the salvation of God and that of the coming Christ? And how do you expect those people who have not heard anything about Christ to attain salvation? Or ALLLLL of them going to be tortured for all eternity?

You did not really read what I wrote, nor the verses and what I had highlighted in them, I can tell. I believe in letting scripture interpret scripture, and therefore answer with scripture more often than not. I will put my Biblical beliefs on this subject in a blue nut shell, only because you failed to glean the answers from the Scripture.

We do not SAVE PEOPLE, that is the Holy Spirit's job. We can aid in that process, by sharing the truth with others. GOD says that everything about HIS invisible Attributes, including HIS Eternal Power and Godhead, are clearly visible in EVERYTHING HE CREATED. THAT leaves "not ever hearing about HIM", nor HIS NAME, totally invalid as an EXCUSE.

There is only ONE SIN that sends anyone to HELL, the rest were paid for on the Cross. That SIN is rejecting what the OMNIPRESENT HOLY SPIRIT, is trying to get you to BELIEVE about GOD, which is Blaspheming the work of the Holy Spirit. ALL MEN are saved in the EXACT same way like, Abraham by believing GOD, and GOD DOES NOT CHANGE.

NO MAN can be SAVED by HIS works, it is a free gift from GOD. Even for those who can only look at any part of nature and believe, there has to be a GOD that made all this, willing submitting to the CREATOR. In my opinion, THAT is what makes the theory of Evolution, the most dangerous False Religion ever preached on the face of the earth.

Just so you know, when a Jew or Hebrew, says he believes something, he is saying he is willingly putting his whole weight and trust in that belief; therefore they obviously apply a much stronger meaning to the word BELIEVE, than most of the modern day world does.

EVERY statement above the last two sentences is Clearly SUPPORTED by Scripture, but this time I am going to let you look them up.

I cannot resist quoting this one verse.

John 1:12 (NKJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] But as many as received Him
(NO MORE, NO LESS; no matter what name you call GOD the Creator), to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:

Hence any Native American who worshiped "THEE GREAT SPIRIT AS CREATOR OF ALL THAT IS" and no other god; CERTAINLY was worshiping the ONE TRUE GOD.

 

[organicbeast]

You did not really read what I wrote, nor the verses and what I had highlighted in them, I can tell. I believe in letting scripture interpret scripture, and therefore answer with scripture more often than not. I will put my Biblical beliefs on this subject in a blue nut shell, only because you failed to glean the answers from the Scripture.

We do not SAVE PEOPLE, that is the Holy Spirit's job. We can aid in that process, by sharing the truth with others. GOD says that everything about HIS invisible Attributes, including HIS Eternal Power and Godhead, are clearly visible in EVERYTHING HE CREATED. THAT leaves "not ever hearing about HIM", nor HIS NAME, totally invalid as an EXCUSE.

There is only ONE SIN that sends anyone to HELL, the rest were paid for on the Cross. That SIN is rejecting what the OMNIPRESENT HOLY SPIRIT, is trying to get you to BELIEVE about GOD, which is Blaspheming the work of the Holy Spirit. ALL MEN are saved in the EXACT same way like, Abraham by believing GOD, and GOD DOES NOT CHANGE.

NO MAN can be SAVED by HIS works, it is a free gift from GOD. Even for those who can only look at any part of nature and believe, there has to be a GOD that made all this, willing submitting to the CREATOR. In my opinion, THAT is what makes the theory of Evolution, the most dangerous False Religion ever preached on the face of the earth.

Just so you know, when a Jew or Hebrew, says he believes something, he is saying he is willingly putting his whole weight and trust in that belief; therefore they obviously apply a much stronger meaning to the word BELIEVE, than most of the modern day world does.

EVERY statement above the last two sentences is Clearly SUPPORTED by Scripture, but this time I am going to let you look them up.

I cannot resist quoting this one verse.

John 1:12 (NKJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] But as many as received Him
(NO MORE, NO LESS; no matter what name you call GOD the Creator), to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:

Hence any Native American who worshiped "THEE GREAT SPIRIT AS CREATOR OF ALL THAT IS" and no other god; CERTAINLY was worshiping the ONE TRUE GOD.

Yes the scriptures do mention that to those in the N.T and afterwards. Basically, you are saying all the souls that existed (around the world) before Christ came to Earth will be TORTURED for ALL ETERNITY, even though they did not get to hear about Him not even once. Faith comes from preaching and hearing the word of God. Did they get that opportunity? NO! So, that is fair according to your enlightened mind?

I will also mention scriptures:

Romans 9:18 - "So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills."

Romans 2:6 - "He will render to each one according to his works:"

So, you have acquired the spiritual merit and faith to sit at the right hand of Christ and claim that there will not be a single soul before Christ came to earth whom the Lord will have mercy?

 

[VCO]

Yes the scriptures do mention that to those in the N.T and afterwards. Basically, you are saying all the souls that existed (around the world) before Christ came to Earth will be TORTURED for ALL ETERNITY, even though they did not get to hear about Him not even once. Faith comes from preaching and hearing the word of God. Did they get that opportunity? NO! So, that is fair according to your enlightened mind?

I will also mention scriptures:

Romans 9:18 - "So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills."

Romans 2:6 - "He will render to each one according to his works:"

So, you have acquired the spiritual merit and faith to sit at the right hand of Christ and claim that there will not be a single soul before Christ came to earth whom the Lord will have mercy?

Once again you did not read my comments, did you? You had better re-read what I posted to you, because your accusation is 180 degrees from what I said.

Ephesians 2:7-9 (NKJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Romans 3:20 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

Galatians 2:16 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] know that no one is justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ. And we have believed in Christ Jesus so that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no human being will be justified.

OUR WORKS, are to be judged NOT TO SEE IF WE DESERVE TO BE SAVED, but rather to see if we deserve any heavenly reward such a crowns. Just so you know, those crowns are like the laurel wreath crowns of the winning athlete in the original Olympic style of games that Paul was so found of. After the winning athlete finished the race and received the crown, he would walk over to where his King was sitting in the front row of the stadium, take off that crown, kneel, bow, and cast that crown at his King's feet, saying, "I won this for you, my King."

Galatians 5:7 (NIV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] You were running a good race. Who cut in on you and kept you from obeying the truth?

2 Timothy 4:7-8 (HCSB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] There is reserved for me in the future the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give me on that day, and not only to me, but to all those who have loved His appearing.

James 1:12 (HCSB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] A man who endures trials is blessed, because when he passes the test he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love Him.

Revelation 3:11 (HCSB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] I am coming quickly. Hold on to what you have, so that no one takes your crown.



I think we are done here, especially because of what it says in these verses:

Titus 3:9-11 (NKJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition,
[SUP]11 [/SUP] knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned.

 

[VCO]

The Mark of the Beast is still in the Future organicbeast. It has not happen yet. BUT you just may see people accepting the Mark of the Beast in your lifetime. If you do see it then this means you have missed the Rapture and the only was to receive Salvation will be by your death.

Here is is a link to something I wrote back on August 9th, 2014, (post #25), explaining what I believe the Mark of the Beast actually is, and why I still be it is in the future, perhaps near future:

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/97034-mark-beast-666-a-2.html#post1643698

 

[organicbeast]

Once again you did not read my comments, did you? You had better re-read what I posted to you, because your accusation is 180 degrees from what I said.

Ephesians 2:7-9 (NKJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Romans 3:20 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

Galatians 2:16 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] know that no one is justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ. And we have believed in Christ Jesus so that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no human being will be justified.

OUR WORKS, are to be judged NOT TO SEE IF WE DESERVE TO BE SAVED, but rather to see if we deserve any heavenly reward such a crowns. Just so you know, those crowns are like the laurel wreath crowns of the winning athlete in the original Olympic style of games that Paul was so found of. After the winning athlete finished the race and received the crown, he would walk over to where his King was sitting in the front row of the stadium, take off that crown, kneel, bow, and cast that crown at his King's feet, saying, "I won this for you, my King."

Galatians 5:7 (NIV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] You were running a good race. Who cut in on you and kept you from obeying the truth?

2 Timothy 4:7-8 (HCSB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] There is reserved for me in the future the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give me on that day, and not only to me, but to all those who have loved His appearing.

James 1:12 (HCSB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] A man who endures trials is blessed, because when he passes the test he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love Him.

Revelation 3:11 (HCSB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] I am coming quickly. Hold on to what you have, so that no one takes your crown.



I think we are done here, especially because of what it says in these verses:

Titus 3:9-11 (NKJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition,
[SUP]11 [/SUP] knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned.

Yes sir, I had read what you said and all of it is from the scriptures, the work of the holy spirit etc etc. Nice, but not so nice for those people who lived before Christ came to earth, and who DID NOT get to hear the revelation of Christ and the BIBLE itself. What and how should Christ deal with them? They did not know Christ, nor they did they hear about him, and nor did they even get one chance, even a min to read the Bible - because the Bible wasn't even written at that time.

You are not addressing the above case, but instead throwing post-Christ NT verses at me, which is nice, but what good is it if those people did not even get a chance to read the Bible or hear about Christ ??

Romans 9:18 - "So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills."

But, again who are you and me to execute judgement on behalf of Christ like we the lord of all human souls, to say that it is impossible for God to have any mercy on them that did not even know Him or the Bible etc. etc. If a man in complete ignorance of Christ lets assume happened to have lived a life of good conscience. How much more good fruit could he have brought forth, had he known about Christ right? Will you and I decide at the judgement of Christ to have mercy on that man or not? Both of us know that it is Christ that will sit on the judgement seat, and He will have mercy on whom He will have mercy. And if that means that mercy manifests in salvation to that individual as per the dispensation of Christ, who are you and I to object?

 

[MsSuzanna]

Basically Ahwatukee is referring to the word "olethros", there was a study I ran into and here it is:

The Greek word translated destruction is ολεθρος (olethros), and it occurs in only 3 other places in the New Testament (1 Cor 5:5, 1 Thes 5:3 and 1 Tim 6:9). This is not enough to establish its meaning without further evidence from elsewhere. Ολεθρος comes from a verb root ολλυμι (ollumi). This root is not used in the NT, but its compound form απολλυμι has 2 basic meanings. 1: to destroy (kill or perish), 2: to be lost.

He believes 2) applies in his case, and therefore destruction can't mean complete destruction of soul(consciousness)

Ok, if that is the case, then the very word 'eternity' is mistranslated by them, because the Greek meaning points to something else.

Here it is:

The Greek word aiwn (αιων) means an age, and the phrase eis ton aiwna (εις τον αιωνα) literally means to the age, but most English Bibles translate it for ever. Similarly the Greek adjective aiwnios (αιωνιος) derived from aiwn, literally means age-lasting, but is generally translated eternal or everlasting. Similar things are true in the Old Testament of the Hebrew word olam.

The difference between these two ways of translating is absolutely radical. Everlasting and forever both imply time with no limit or end. Age-lasting and to the age are both uncertain in duration, but imply a limited time. Limited punishment is compatible with other teaching in the Bible about the restitution of all things (Acts 3: 21) and God reconciling all things to himself (Col 1: 20). Unlimited punishment is incompatible with these teachings.

The whole traditional teaching of eternal torment rests on the translation of these words. As they stand in most English (and other language) translations of the Bible they leave no room for any other interpretation of the scriptures. Once they are replaced with their more literal translations the traditional teaching of Eternal Torment collapses.

My advise to you would be: Pray to Christ and do your own research. Why would you listen to anybody that turns God worse than the morality of a human being?

My advise to you would be: Pray to Christ and do your own research. Why would you listen to anybody that turns God worse than the morality of a human being?

" turn God worse than the morality of a human being?
Is that kinda like saying what others before you have said some make God out to be sadistic ?

I think that the ones who make these statements dont understand that God doesnt need to explain himself to anyone and God is the one that sets the standards. He is HOLY. God is without sin. He is sovereign. He is just. God is merciful and loving in the way he gives people many many times to come to him. God will deal with sinners in the way he deems fit without a mere mortals permission Gods wrath is the other half of his nature that people dont want to comprehend. He is the final judge. The supreme judge.

 

[VCO]

Yes sir, I had read what you said and all of it is from the scriptures, the work of the holy spirit etc etc. Nice, but not so nice for those people who lived before Christ came to earth, and who DID NOT get to hear the revelation of Christ and the BIBLE itself. What and how should Christ deal with them? They did not know Christ, nor they did they hear about him, and nor did they even get one chance, even a min to read the Bible - because the Bible wasn't even written at that time.

You are not addressing the above case, but instead throwing post-Christ NT verses at me, which is nice, but what good is it if those people did not even get a chance to read the Bible or hear about Christ ??

Romans 9:18 - "So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills."

But, again who are you and me to execute judgement on behalf of Christ like we the lord of all human souls, to say that it is impossible for God to have any mercy on them that did not even know Him or the Bible etc. etc. If a man in complete ignorance of Christ lets assume happened to have lived a life of good conscience. How much more good fruit could he have brought forth, had he known about Christ right? Will you and I decide at the judgement of Christ to have mercy on that man or not? Both of us know that it is Christ that will sit on the judgement seat, and He will have mercy on whom He will have mercy. And if that means that mercy manifests in salvation to that individual as per the dispensation of Christ, who are you and I to object?

More proof you are not really reading what I wrote.

Why do you like to argue so much, instead of just discussing?

SALVATION hinges on whether or not you Believe GOD.

The Ability to Believe GOD is a work of the Holy Spirit, NOT a work of our brain.

John 3:36 (HCSB)
[SUP]36 [/SUP] The one who believes in the Son has {past tense} eternal life, but the one who refuses to believe in the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him.

Romans 8:24 (GW)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] We were saved {past tense} with this hope in mind. If we hope for something we already see, it's not really hope. Who hopes for what can be seen?

Unbelief is the only sin that was not paid for on the Cross, also know as blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

1 John 2:2 (GW)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] He is the payment for our sins, and not only for our sins, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Mark 3:29 (NIV)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."

Romans 15:13 (GW)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] May God, the source of hope, fill you with joy and peace through your faith in him. Then you will overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.

SPECIFICALLY HOW ARE MEN SAVED?

Genesis 15:6 (HCSB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Abram believed the LORD, and He credited it to him as righteousness.

Malachi 3:6 (GW)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] “I, the LORD, never change.
That is why you descendants of Jacob haven't been destroyed yet.


THEREFORE, we know how the LORD saves all men who are Saved or will be Saved.


Dying in Unbelief therefore equates to condemnation to Hell for Eternity, and GOD says they are without EXCUSE because there is enough in everything He created, to bring one to Believe in the Creator our God.

We do not need to continue this.

1 Timothy 6:3-5 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] If anyone teaches other doctrine and does not agree with the sound teaching of our Lord Jesus Christ and with the teaching that promotes godliness,
[SUP]4 [/SUP] he is conceited, understanding nothing, but has a sick interest in disputes and arguments over words. From these come envy, quarreling, slander, evil suspicions,
[SUP]5 [/SUP] and constant disagreement among people whose minds are depraved and deprived of the truth, who imagine that godliness is a way to material gain.

 

[kedge]

what? and no honest person that reads the bible doubts that hell is eternal punishment...its only those that are willing to pervert the bible that come to these other conclusions.

I noticed you highlighted the bit about 'man has no preeminence over animals', it is not me deliberately perverting or confusing Scripture it is Scripture itself that makes one interpret it a way it can be interpreted, even Jesus Christ confuses me, it is not easy reading and understanding that's for sure and I am not even sure if I am meant to understand the Holy Bible anyway, it appears it was only meant for the apostles and Jesus took them aside to explain, how can Jesus take a modern man aside and explain by mouth in person? why has God selected only a few? and which few should I believe? what to do? and who should we trust in this deceptive world that we all live in? seriously, why should I believe what another modern day sinner interprets?.


the confusing scripture about man not having preeminence over animals

Ecclesiastes 3:19-20
For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts is the same. As one dies so dies the other; indeed, they all have the same breath and there is no advantage for man over beast, for all is vanity. All go to the same place. All came from the dust and all return to the dust.

I read Matthew, Mark, Luke and just started on John over the weekend, I was often scratching my head in disbelief and confusion, haha

What Jesus Christ spoke According to Matthew

To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. For to the one who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says: “You will indeed hear but never understand, and you will indeed see but never perceive. For this people’s heart has grown dull, and with their ears they can barely hear, and their eyes they have closed, lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them.” But blessed are your eyes, for they see, and your ears, for they hear. For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.


Scratches head, I really truly do not understand a lot of the Bible? but at some point (if i choose to continue with all this?) I am just going to have to trust in others.

 

[MsSuzanna]

I thought you were out pages ago kedge.

Which btw,by your own words it is you that is a modern day sinner. those who are reborn again IN Christ are saints.

You only need to trust in God. He has said that we trust HIM and not man. When you know that you know that you are saved,you will be able to discern as you mature whose words line up with the truth and spirit as it is written

 

[kedge]

I thought you were out pages ago kedge.

Your thread title had no real substance to it and was an easy one to answer, yes, hell is in the Bible, the better question "what exactly is hell?" of course, that question did happen and that's why it continued this long.

modern day sinner.

All are sinners.

those who are reborn again IN Christ are saints.

You humor me sister.

 

[kedge]

When you know that you know that you are saved,you will be able to discern as you mature whose words line up with the truth and spirit as it is written

What absolute nonsense you speak, explain why Christianity is divided on Scripture, and it has been ongoing for a very long time, you know it woman.

 

[MsSuzanna]

What absolute nonsense you speak, explain why Christianity is divided on Scripture, and it has been ongoing for a very long time, you know it woman.

The interpretation of the whole word is not wholly divided. It is only a few certain things that people will disagree on. But this is the real question: why is this so? Because not all are reading the word in the letter of the spirit. Thats the truth whether you agree or not.

I asked the Holy spirit to teach me and I continue to keep asking. I dont get hung up on trying to convince people past a few times at it really. Its only the spirit of God that can teach and until a person surrenders to that, he cannot properly learn. Wouldnt you want to know the absolute truth taught by Gods spirit other than a mere man?

God teaches us in all things and that includes being able to discern what is truth and what is not. Mature discernment comes with maturity. You cannot walk until you crawl. You cannot crawl until you are reborn again

 

[organicbeast]

Dying in Unbelief therefore equates to condemnation to Hell for Eternity, and GOD says they are without EXCUSE because there is enough in everything He created, to bring one to Believe in the Creator our God.

Even the Hindus believe in a God including the Muslims. IMO, I don't believe you are qualified to make that statement to somebody who has never HEARD of "CHRIST". You are expecting some ignorant human being to come to the knowledge of Christ from empty air? Keep it up! Your statement is an eternally hopeless one to the one that perished w/o the knowledge of Christ back in the days.HOW would you approach a person in the Pre-Christ period to believe in Him? Are you expecting the knowledge of Christ to be in-built within every human being that is born in this natural world? Really?

Do you know what the scriptures say about the carnal/natural mind of every human being that is born into this world?

Romans 8:7 - "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be"

I needed to hear what you had to say, and it is clear. ALL SOULS within the PRE-CHRIST era are going to be burned in and tormented in HELL for eternity and eternity.

Thanks VCO for enlightening my mind.

 

[organicbeast]

I thought you were out pages ago kedge.

Which btw,by your own words it is you that is a modern day sinner. those who are reborn again IN Christ are saints.

Maybe you can witness to Christ and confess that you are a living Saint in Him. Not me.

I don't believe a person becomes a saint the very night they accept Christ as their savior. IMO, Sainthood is something like that of a spiritual ladder. The more you overcome your natural/carnal mind with faith, over the course of your life on earth and at the same time allow the maturation of Christ, the closer you are to become a saint.

 

[MsSuzanna]

I needed to hear what you had to say, and it is clear. ALL SOULS within the PRE-CHRIST era are going to be burned in and tormented in HELL for eternity and eternity.

I dont know if VCO said that or you said it for him but it is not true.

There were OT saints that walked with God in faith. Jesus went to get them where they waited for him in paradise.

There were sinners that died in their sins just as there are today. This has never changed. But it also has always been that there are men who will walk with the Lord and there they will be forever;with the LORD

 

[organicbeast]

The interpretation of the whole word is not wholly divided. It is only a few certain things that people will disagree on. But this is the real question: why is this so? Because not all are reading the word in the letter of the spirit. Thats the truth whether you agree or not.

I asked the Holy spirit to teach me and I continue to keep asking. I dont get hung up on trying to convince people past a few times at it really. Its only the spirit of God that can teach and until a person surrenders to that, he cannot properly learn. Wouldnt you want to know the absolute truth taught by Gods spirit other than a mere man?

God teaches us in all things and that includes being able to discern what is truth and what is not. Mature discernment comes with maturity. You cannot walk until you crawl. You cannot crawl until you are reborn again

Ya, it seems like that same spirit of God has been teaching something to one believer regarding a specific subject in the Bible, and another to other believer. Can that be the case? No. One of us is deceived. If we talk about the omnipotence, the eternal LOVE, and the eternally magnificent grace of Christ, then unfortunately that eternal grace, eternal love and righteousness doesn't seem to apply to people who were completely ignorant of Christ in the pre-Christ period or era.

We got a problem with our doctrine here then, if we think all souls within the pre-Christ era outside of Israel like India, China and Africa all will burned and tormented in Hell for eternity unto eternity? Really?

 

[MsSuzanna]

Your thread title had no real substance to it and was an easy one to answer, yes, hell is in the Bible, the better question "what exactly is hell?" of course, that question did happen and that's why it continued this long.

All are sinners.


You humor me sister.

Im not your sister. You told me you are not a christian.


Which btw, the title is merely a title. The content is in the body of the thread.