Hell's Population Crock
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G
The Bible is very clear from the beginning that we have free will and can make a choice. God is not a god for grey areas. You either choose Him or you choose the way leading into eternal condemnation. It is difficult to be a Christian and to understand scriptures that is why we have to study God's word and if we are misleading people, rather keep our mouths shut as the teachers will be judged the hardest.
Eternal Torment is neither Biblical nor is it moral. If it were moral, somebody would have explained it by now. I used to believe in ECT (Eternal Conscious Torment). I used to defend it and strived to find reasons to defend it. But it was a hollow pursuit. In fact, I did not make the transition lightly. For a good long while I was on the fence between ECT and CI (Conditional Imortality); And one day it was actually Scripture that convinced me.
Also, your statement that God cannot change or He is a liar does not make any sense. Since when did God torture His enemies for long periods of time? God has destroyed His enemies. This is consistent with the pattern we see of God in the Scriptures. God cannot change or else He is a liar.
Also, your statement that God cannot change or He is a liar does not make any sense. Since when did God torture His enemies for long periods of time? God has destroyed His enemies. This is consistent with the pattern we see of God in the Scriptures. God cannot change or else He is a liar.
First, please write in a font that is normal sized. Writing in a font that is small is hard for folks to read (So they are more likely to skip over your posts); Plus, others can get the wrong impression that you are not wanting to proclaim the truth boldly and clearly. Second, also provide Scripture verse when you discuss these topics and less opinion about either the doctrine and or me. Let's stick to the Bible. That is where the Battle is on this topic. If you can't be bothered, then I will just skip past your posts. This is a Bible discussion in a Bible discussion forum. That is why we are here. To discuss the Bible. This is not the opinion forum or a forum about me.
As for the list:
While the word "forever" can mean "forever", the word "forever" (and it's related words) does not always mean forever in the Bible, though. “Forever” can be referred to in a temporal sense, too. For what do you make of the following verses below that say that "forever" (or it's related words) is not forever?
• In Gen.13:15 the land of Canaan is given to Israel “forever”.
• The Law is to be a statute “forever” (Ex.12:24; 27:21; 28:43).
• Sodom's fiery judgment is "eternal" (Jude 7) until -- God "will restore the fortunes of Sodom" (Ezek.16:53-55).
• Israel's "affliction is incurable" (Jer.30:12) until -- the Lord "will restore health" and heal her wounds (Jer.30:17).
• The sin of Samaria "is incurable" (Mic.1:9) until -- Lord "will restore ... the fortunes of Samaria." (Ez.16:53).
• Ammon is to become a "wasteland forever" and "rise no more" (Zeph.2:9, Jer.25:27 until -- the Lord will "restore the fortunes of the Ammonites" (Jer.49:6).
• An Ammonite or Moabite is forbidden to enter the Lord's congregation "forever" until -- the tenth generation (Deut.23:3):
• Habakkuk tells us of mountains that were "everlasting" until -- they "were shattered" Hab.3 3:6).
• The Aaronic Priesthood was to be an "everlasting" priesthood (Ex.40:15), that is-until-it was superceded by the Melchizedek Priesthood (Heb.7:14-18).
• Many translations of the Bible inform us that God would dwell in Solomon's Temple "forever" (1 Kings 8:13), until -- the Temple was destroyed.
• The children of Israel were to "observe the Sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant" (Exodus 31:16)-until -- Paul states there remains "another day" of Sabbath rest for the people of God (Heb. 4:8,9).
• The Law of Moses was to be an "everlasting covenant" (Lev.24:8) yet we read in the New Covenant the first was "done away" and "abolished" (2 Cor. 3:11,13), and God "made the first old" (Hebrews 8:13).
• The fire for Israel's sin offering (of a ram without blemish) is never to be put out. It shall be a "perpetual" until -- Christ, the Lamb of God, dies for our sins.
Hell. We now have a better covenant established on better promises (Lev. 6:12-13, Heb. 8:6-13).
• God's waves of wrath roll over Jonah "forever" until--the Lord delivers him from the large fish's belly on the third day (Jonah 2:6,10; 1: 17); Egypt and Elam will "rise no more" (Jer.25:27) until -- the Lord will "restore the fortunes of Egypt" (Ez.29:14) and "restore the fortunes of Elam" (Jer.49:39).
• "Moab is destroyed" (Jer.48:4, 42) until--the Lord "will restore the fortunes of Moab" (Jer.48:47).
• Israel's judgment lasts "forever" until -- the Spirit is poured out and God restores it (Isa.32:13-15).
• The King James Bible, as well as many others, tells us that a bond slave was to serve his master "forever" (Exodus 21:6), until -- his death.
• “Eternal” (Greek aionia, αιονια) is sometimes used of a limited (not endless) period of time. But the most common use is illustrated in II Cor.4:18 where it is contrasted with “temporal” and in Philemon 15 where it is contrasted with “for a while.”
Source Used:
http://www.apttoteach.org/Theology/E...f/911_Hell.pdf
While the word "forever" can mean "forever", the word "forever" (and it's related words) does not always mean forever in the Bible, though. “Forever” can be referred to in a temporal sense, too. For what do you make of the following verses below that say that "forever" (or it's related words) is not forever?
• In Gen.13:15 the land of Canaan is given to Israel “forever”.
• The Law is to be a statute “forever” (Ex.12:24; 27:21; 28:43).
• Sodom's fiery judgment is "eternal" (Jude 7) until -- God "will restore the fortunes of Sodom" (Ezek.16:53-55).
• Israel's "affliction is incurable" (Jer.30:12) until -- the Lord "will restore health" and heal her wounds (Jer.30:17).
• The sin of Samaria "is incurable" (Mic.1:9) until -- Lord "will restore ... the fortunes of Samaria." (Ez.16:53).
• Ammon is to become a "wasteland forever" and "rise no more" (Zeph.2:9, Jer.25:27 until -- the Lord will "restore the fortunes of the Ammonites" (Jer.49:6).
• An Ammonite or Moabite is forbidden to enter the Lord's congregation "forever" until -- the tenth generation (Deut.23:3):
• Habakkuk tells us of mountains that were "everlasting" until -- they "were shattered" Hab.3 3:6).
• The Aaronic Priesthood was to be an "everlasting" priesthood (Ex.40:15), that is-until-it was superceded by the Melchizedek Priesthood (Heb.7:14-18).
• Many translations of the Bible inform us that God would dwell in Solomon's Temple "forever" (1 Kings 8:13), until -- the Temple was destroyed.
• The children of Israel were to "observe the Sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant" (Exodus 31:16)-until -- Paul states there remains "another day" of Sabbath rest for the people of God (Heb. 4:8,9).
• The Law of Moses was to be an "everlasting covenant" (Lev.24:8) yet we read in the New Covenant the first was "done away" and "abolished" (2 Cor. 3:11,13), and God "made the first old" (Hebrews 8:13).
• The fire for Israel's sin offering (of a ram without blemish) is never to be put out. It shall be a "perpetual" until -- Christ, the Lamb of God, dies for our sins.
Hell. We now have a better covenant established on better promises (Lev. 6:12-13, Heb. 8:6-13).
• God's waves of wrath roll over Jonah "forever" until--the Lord delivers him from the large fish's belly on the third day (Jonah 2:6,10; 1: 17); Egypt and Elam will "rise no more" (Jer.25:27) until -- the Lord will "restore the fortunes of Egypt" (Ez.29:14) and "restore the fortunes of Elam" (Jer.49:39).
• "Moab is destroyed" (Jer.48:4, 42) until--the Lord "will restore the fortunes of Moab" (Jer.48:47).
• Israel's judgment lasts "forever" until -- the Spirit is poured out and God restores it (Isa.32:13-15).
• The King James Bible, as well as many others, tells us that a bond slave was to serve his master "forever" (Exodus 21:6), until -- his death.
• “Eternal” (Greek aionia, αιονια) is sometimes used of a limited (not endless) period of time. But the most common use is illustrated in II Cor.4:18 where it is contrasted with “temporal” and in Philemon 15 where it is contrasted with “for a while.”
Source Used:
http://www.apttoteach.org/Theology/E...f/911_Hell.pdf
I am addressing you anyway, that is why I am here.
But for you,....the font issue......because this is how you attack.....here you go.
You've already proven your credibility.
You never have people side with your argument...why is this?
Is it the way you present yourself? .....and the long winded, copy and paste, stock replies?
That you, yourself, admit you do???
You said to me you wanted to preach once...here's truth......you have to have people receive your message to do so effectively. Not push them away brother.
No need to proceed, I've made my point.
Now whenever you want to debate something else, besides your signature Hell and OSAS debates.
..............I'll be your Huckleberry.
But for you,....the font issue......because this is how you attack.....here you go.
You've already proven your credibility.
You never have people side with your argument...why is this?
Is it the way you present yourself? .....and the long winded, copy and paste, stock replies?
That you, yourself, admit you do???
You said to me you wanted to preach once...here's truth......you have to have people receive your message to do so effectively. Not push them away brother.
No need to proceed, I've made my point.
Now whenever you want to debate something else, besides your signature Hell and OSAS debates.
..............I'll be your Huckleberry.
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I am addressing you anyway, that is why I am here.
But for you,....the font issue......because this is how you attack.....here you go.
You've already proven your credibility.
You never have people side with your argument...why is this?
Is it the way you present yourself? .....and the long winded, copy and paste, stock replies?
That you, yourself, admit you do???
You said to me you wanted to preach once...here's truth......you have to have people receive your message to do so effectively. Not push them away brother.
No need to proceed, I've made my point.
Now whenever you want to debate something else, besides your signature Hell and OSAS debates.
..............I'll be your Huckleberry.
But for you,....the font issue......because this is how you attack.....here you go.
You've already proven your credibility.
You never have people side with your argument...why is this?
Is it the way you present yourself? .....and the long winded, copy and paste, stock replies?
That you, yourself, admit you do???
You said to me you wanted to preach once...here's truth......you have to have people receive your message to do so effectively. Not push them away brother.
No need to proceed, I've made my point.
Now whenever you want to debate something else, besides your signature Hell and OSAS debates.
..............I'll be your Huckleberry.
I forgot to add....
I do agree in the future we should stick to using/ talking about the Bible, nothing but the Bible.
Will be fun. In other words, what I am saying is this will be amazing if we did.
Anyways, this is how proper debate is done, we can both see eye to eye on that.
In other words, I agree.
Again, we are not on an Opinion Forum nor a About Me Forum. Neither are we on a Huckleberry Forum. Not going to fall for your bait and switch that does not involve the Bible. I have provided a list of Scripture for you to look at above. If you want to talk about the Bible here in a Bible discussion forum, then I will be happy to converse with you. If not, please know I will not consider anything of what you have to say.
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Bait and switch....huh?.....what are you talking about man?
That is not what it means.
You bait and switch with your poll threads...I'm sure you know this?
That is what it means.
Huh, what?
The scripture you provided doesn't address the question at hand? You still have no case.
........wow, so this is what people say about how you "twist" to make a point.......?
Bait : poor examples.....switch: twist, play unfair to win an argument, or at least convince yourself you have.
(No,... but since we were making up definitions of terms.)
Eternal...and forever? Hell and Heaven and God...real eternal places/ known...stick to the rules.
NT examples will suffice.
You should know that KEY words can and do change in the NT?
That is not what it means.
You bait and switch with your poll threads...I'm sure you know this?
That is what it means.
Huh, what?
The scripture you provided doesn't address the question at hand? You still have no case.
........wow, so this is what people say about how you "twist" to make a point.......?
Bait : poor examples.....switch: twist, play unfair to win an argument, or at least convince yourself you have.
(No,... but since we were making up definitions of terms.)
Eternal...and forever? Hell and Heaven and God...real eternal places/ known...stick to the rules.
NT examples will suffice.
You should know that KEY words can and do change in the NT?
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S
Well, there is only one Way, and that is belief in Christ.
I don't care if there is no eternal Gehenna awaiting unbelievers, (I suppose I even hope there isn't, for the sake of my dead unsaved loved ones), but there certainly is no eternal reward for them.
If the Prophets and Apostles warned of punishment in the afterlife, I think the warning should be heeded, regardless of what the punishment turns out to be... It will be very bad.
I don't care if there is no eternal Gehenna awaiting unbelievers, (I suppose I even hope there isn't, for the sake of my dead unsaved loved ones), but there certainly is no eternal reward for them.
If the Prophets and Apostles warned of punishment in the afterlife, I think the warning should be heeded, regardless of what the punishment turns out to be... It will be very bad.