hey guys quit it

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A

ariannaaa

Guest
#1
What is with all of these hostile arguments lately?

The bible is abundantly clear that foolish disputes that cause division or offense are not of God.. and that studying the Word and trying to find truth in it is supposed to be an act of edification for the body- not an act of destruction.

We are supposed to be one body under Christ.

"So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another." Romans 12:5

I mean, do we really think that setting up verbal fist fights over Catholics v. Protestants, Pre-trib v. Post-trib, Tongues today v. No tongues today, is glorifying to God?

By all means if youre looking for truth, or attempting to edify the body thats fine. But the sarcasm, arrogance, and hostility with which so many write their words- completely abolishes any edifying factor the content of their message may have initially held.

"If anyone does not consent to wholesome words...he is proud, knowing nothing, but obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife.. from which withdraw yourself." 1 Timothy 6:3-6

I just don't understand why we are commanded to: (1) study the word, look for truth, and uplift one another with that, and also (2) remain a unified body and practive love towards one another despite disagreement... yet so many cannot accomplish the former without trampling the latter.

Nothing of eternal significance has ever happened apart from love.

...so say it in love love love love love. ;)





.
 
W

wwjd_kilden

Guest
#2
totally agree
 
L

Lauren

Guest
#3
Agreed too.
 

BLC

Banned
Feb 28, 2009
711
4
0
#4
What is with all of these hostile arguments lately?

The bible is abundantly clear that foolish disputes that cause division or offense are not of God.. and that studying the Word and trying to find truth in it is supposed to be an act of edification for the body- not an act of destruction.

We are supposed to be one body under Christ.

"So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another." Romans 12:5

I mean, do we really think that setting up verbal fist fights over Catholics v. Protestants, Pre-trib v. Post-trib, Tongues today v. No tongues today, is glorifying to God?

By all means if youre looking for truth, or attempting to edify the body thats fine. But the sarcasm, arrogance, and hostility with which so many write their words- completely abolishes any edifying factor the content of their message may have initially held.

"If anyone does not consent to wholesome words...he is proud, knowing nothing, but obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife.. from which withdraw yourself." 1 Timothy 6:3-6

I just don't understand why we are commanded to: (1) study the word, look for truth, and uplift one another with that, and also (2) remain a unified body and practive love towards one another despite disagreement... yet so many cannot accomplish the former without trampling the latter.

Nothing of eternal significance has ever happened apart from love.

...so say it in love love love love love. ;)





.
Most of the things that Paul taught, that are written in your Bible, came from a mystery of revelation that Jesus Christ had given to Paul that had never been revealed to anyone, including the other apostles (Eph 3:2,3, Rom 16:25, 11:25, 1Cor 15:51). It was hidden until Paul revealed it. The church, the body of Christ and the bride was that mystery. Everything related to these three, both then and now were included in the mystery. The resurrections and the judgments of the church was also included in that mystery. The dispensation of that mystery started with the death, burial and resurrection of Christ and will end when Christ comes back in the rapture of the church, which is also a mystery, that will take place before the Great Tribulation of (Mt 24:21, Rev 2:22, 7:14).

We should know and have a fellowship with these mysteries as a believer (Eph 3:9) and have solid convictions so that we could consent to wholesome words. The written word has revealed these mysteries to us. If you do not have convictions on these matters you can not consent to wholesome words and you know nothing that you ought to know. Paul said he was a steward of the mysteries of God (1Cor 4:1), does that mean that you and I do not have to be stewards as well? Do you know how much ridicule and contention that Paul received for teaching these mysteries of the church and the gospel of Christ? Every letter he wrote was dealing with doctrine and issues of faith that involved the church which were being contended. He had certain Jews that followed him and would stir up strife everywhere he went, some of the Gentiles did likewise. This man could not go anywhere with these mysteries without being contended with and it came from all sides, all the time without letting up.

So a little bit of contention comes on this sight and you and others get all upset and don't like it and try to justify it by starting a thread with a couple of verses that you feel strong about. Did a couple of friends or family members read something and you got embarrasses or self conscious about it? If someone kept preaching and teaching your sister or daughter something that was contrary to sound doctrine, would you say, cut it out guys? What if that stuff had an effect on them and lead them in the wrong direction, would you say, cut it out guys? What if it had effected them to stop following the Lord, would you say, cut it out guys? You should tell them to take a hike and stay away from your loved ones. Then you would go to your loved ones and do your best to communicate the love of the truth and edify them with wholesome words to restore what they were lacking or what had been taken from them. I certainly hope that is what you would do, in the Lord.
 
Jan 31, 2009
2,225
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#5
well Love has everything to do with it , but I didn't feel the love with this thread either I may have felt some frustration. But our love should be directed toward God first , then by loving God then others, the way we love others shows our love toward God, now I never mean to insult people but the way I say things. however from time to time I may insult people and after they bring it out to me I see, how it could have be offensive. however , our compassion for God, His Word and Truth, if we have a passion for the truth, then we should discuss, debate, and what some might misunderstand carrying this too far. for example had a young girl come to Church one time while I was preaching on Romans 12: 1-3, this girl spoke up and said well Her God made her the way she is, and He didn't expect her to try to be perfect. which is being taught in some churches today also that God is love and that he would never send anyone to hell, which this is also a false teaching, because God doesn't send anyone to hell, people send themselves to hell by refusing the Love of God, given through Jesus Christ. Which is my point it would seem to some that God didn't love His only Begotten Son, cause He let Him be beaten whipped. mock and Crucified. How ever this is the very way God showed His love toward the world. now just as some have the love toward the truth, that even though some may not see their love toward others, their passion for, or Should I say against false doctrine/teachings is their love toward others in that they don't want anyone to be mislead of spiritual truth, And I think that as you think we should love one another , I think that we should do everything that we can to speak the true doctines. in other words a parent can love by providing shelter and food for their children but even though some don't see the love, parents can also provide/show love toward their children by correcting them when they are wrong. the disciples addressed the one that they were preaching to or correcting as my little children, Jesus showed His love toward God by whipping out the money changers, the disciples got up in each other face from time to time while discussing bibical truth, Jesus told satan to get behind him one time while talking to peter and also Jesus called the jewish leaders vipers, one time, but God forbid that anyone do these things in today's time," For God is Love ", which in itself is only partly true the Whole truth Is that the God that pours out love will also pour out wrath on the disobedient. so point is just because your understanding of love may be different than others does not make you a judge on what love is or isn't.
 
Jan 31, 2009
2,225
11
0
#6
the Only times we find an outpouring of the Holy Spirit in the Bible was when all was in accordance, where there was no schism in the Body( not compromise) but that the truth was presence. all agreed together
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
2,987
1,014
113
New Zealand
#7
Ya it's true that whenever you find admonishing, rebuking and all in the bible, it is normally mixed with grace..

In the Old Testament.. God would judge people and nations for their iniquity, but would forewarn them.. and give them a chance to follow Him - out of His grace. If they continued in rebellion.. then He would rightly judge them.

In the New Testament.. similar thing with Paul admonishing churches.. but particularly with christians.. the rebuking and so forth would be underscored by grace in that he knew they were all fellow brothers and sisters in Jesus.

But in regards to the dissenssions and what not here-- I don have a big issue with them.. I expect them..

I mean think about the number of strands of christianity represented here!

Also.. when Paul was talking of unity in his writings.. He was always addressing christians assembled together in local churches. This chat site is really just digital chat.. it isn't a church. So the things that go on in a church.. I don't expect to happen here.

It is a ministry for the people that run the website I know. And a source for some people who don't get much fellowship or what not outside of the chat site, but it isn't a church.
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#8
There is nothing wrong with passionate and vibrant discussion. It's ok if someone doesn't agree with you :) It shouldn't be taken personally if someone does passionately disagrees with you and vibrantly tells you why they think you're wrong.

It is wrong to make blatant personal attacks though. But it's not a personal attack if someone says something you merely disagree with.
 
Jul 29, 2009
54
0
0
#9
What is with all of these hostile arguments lately?

The bible is abundantly clear that foolish disputes that cause division or offense are not of God.. and that studying the Word and trying to find truth in it is supposed to be an act of edification for the body- not an act of destruction.

We are supposed to be one body under Christ.

"So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another." Romans 12:5

I mean, do we really think that setting up verbal fist fights over Catholics v. Protestants, Pre-trib v. Post-trib, Tongues today v. No tongues today, is glorifying to God?

By all means if youre looking for truth, or attempting to edify the body thats fine. But the sarcasm, arrogance, and hostility with which so many write their words- completely abolishes any edifying factor the content of their message may have initially held.

"If anyone does not consent to wholesome words...he is proud, knowing nothing, but obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife.. from which withdraw yourself." 1 Timothy 6:3-6

I just don't understand why we are commanded to: (1) study the word, look for truth, and uplift one another with that, and also (2) remain a unified body and practive love towards one another despite disagreement... yet so many cannot accomplish the former without trampling the latter.

Nothing of eternal significance has ever happened apart from love.

...so say it in love love love love love. ;)





.
ariannaaa you look a lot like a friend of mine that I haven't seen in awhile. She's as good-hearted as you are. Good post!
 

pickles

Senior Member
Apr 20, 2009
14,479
182
63
#10
Thankyou for this post. There are many times I would have liked to ask questions or be a part of tha sharing of the word but because of the disputes it made it impossible. I enjoy a good debate and sharing of thoughts, that is how we grow in the word. But lately , the tone of some posts closes the door to this. We all must consider others when we discuss the word. Also what kind of witness does this give to those that are seeking Our Lord Jesus through this site. As stewards in the Lord we must consider this. I know that all here love Our Lord Jesus , feel passionate about the word and want only the truth to be seen. I see often that love in all of your posts. I also have always believed that Our Lord God will not let his children be decieved and his power and love will not fail here. Thankyou for this post, it is a good reminder of the witness we bare for Jesus. God bless. pickles
 
A

ariannaaa

Guest
#11
Most of the things that Paul taught, that are written in your Bible, came from a mystery of revelation that Jesus Christ had given to Paul that had never been revealed to anyone, including the other apostles (Eph 3:2,3, Rom 16:25, 11:25, 1Cor 15:51). It was hidden until Paul revealed it. The church, the body of Christ and the bride was that mystery. Everything related to these three, both then and now were included in the mystery. The resurrections and the judgments of the church was also included in that mystery. The dispensation of that mystery started with the death, burial and resurrection of Christ and will end when Christ comes back in the rapture of the church, which is also a mystery, that will take place before the Great Tribulation of (Mt 24:21, Rev 2:22, 7:14).

We should know and have a fellowship with these mysteries as a believer (Eph 3:9) and have solid convictions so that we could consent to wholesome words. The written word has revealed these mysteries to us. If you do not have convictions on these matters you can not consent to wholesome words and you know nothing that you ought to know. Paul said he was a steward of the mysteries of God (1Cor 4:1), does that mean that you and I do not have to be stewards as well? Do you know how much ridicule and contention that Paul received for teaching these mysteries of the church and the gospel of Christ? Every letter he wrote was dealing with doctrine and issues of faith that involved the church which were being contended. He had certain Jews that followed him and would stir up strife everywhere he went, some of the Gentiles did likewise. This man could not go anywhere with these mysteries without being contended with and it came from all sides, all the time without letting up.

So a little bit of contention comes on this sight and you and others get all upset and don't like it and try to justify it by starting a thread with a couple of verses that you feel strong about. Did a couple of friends or family members read something and you got embarrasses or self conscious about it? If someone kept preaching and teaching your sister or daughter something that was contrary to sound doctrine, would you say, cut it out guys? What if that stuff had an effect on them and lead them in the wrong direction, would you say, cut it out guys? What if it had effected them to stop following the Lord, would you say, cut it out guys? You should tell them to take a hike and stay away from your loved ones. Then you would go to your loved ones and do your best to communicate the love of the truth and edify them with wholesome words to restore what they were lacking or what had been taken from them. I certainly hope that is what you would do, in the Lord.

This is not at all what I was talking about. You missed the entire point of the post. Not once did I say anything about not teachin sound doctrine. Its all in the way you talk about it... like I said.. in love.
 
A

ariannaaa

Guest
#12
well Love has everything to do with it , but I didn't feel the love with this thread either I may have felt some frustration. But our love should be directed toward God first , then by loving God then others, the way we love others shows our love toward God, now I never mean to insult people but the way I say things. however from time to time I may insult people and after they bring it out to me I see, how it could have be offensive. however , our compassion for God, His Word and Truth, if we have a passion for the truth, then we should discuss, debate, and what some might misunderstand carrying this too far. for example had a young girl come to Church one time while I was preaching on Romans 12: 1-3, this girl spoke up and said well Her God made her the way she is, and He didn't expect her to try to be perfect. which is being taught in some churches today also that God is love and that he would never send anyone to hell, which this is also a false teaching, because God doesn't send anyone to hell, people send themselves to hell by refusing the Love of God, given through Jesus Christ. Which is my point it would seem to some that God didn't love His only Begotten Son, cause He let Him be beaten whipped. mock and Crucified. How ever this is the very way God showed His love toward the world. now just as some have the love toward the truth, that even though some may not see their love toward others, their passion for, or Should I say against false doctrine/teachings is their love toward others in that they don't want anyone to be mislead of spiritual truth, And I think that as you think we should love one another , I think that we should do everything that we can to speak the true doctines. in other words a parent can love by providing shelter and food for their children but even though some don't see the love, parents can also provide/show love toward their children by correcting them when they are wrong. the disciples addressed the one that they were preaching to or correcting as my little children, Jesus showed His love toward God by whipping out the money changers, the disciples got up in each other face from time to time while discussing bibical truth, Jesus told satan to get behind him one time while talking to peter and also Jesus called the jewish leaders vipers, one time, but God forbid that anyone do these things in today's time," For God is Love ", which in itself is only partly true the Whole truth Is that the God that pours out love will also pour out wrath on the disobedient. so point is just because your understanding of love may be different than others does not make you a judge on what love is or isn't.
Pretty much the same thing I said to BLC. Im not discouraging anyone from speaking truth, if you really read through my post- I think its clear that its all about how we discuss these topics.

Yeah, be passionate about God and His word, but passion doesn't give people the right to insult others, give personal attacks, and use sarcasm to get points across. [Not sayin you do this, just saying in general.]

Personally I've never been offended by anyone on here, but reading how some have spoken to others breaks my heart! People can be really harsh.. and I'm not saying I've never done it either. I know how hard it is to remain humble and gentle about something you feel adamantly about.

I'm just encouraging everyone to be careful- and to season their words with grace when it comes to these debates.. because if it isn't said in love than it won't be effective.
 
J

jgrig2

Guest
#13
What is with all of these hostile arguments lately?

The bible is abundantly clear that foolish disputes that cause division or offense are not of God.. and that studying the Word and trying to find truth in it is supposed to be an act of edification for the body- not an act of destruction.

We are supposed to be one body under Christ.

"So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another." Romans 12:5

I mean, do we really think that setting up verbal fist fights over Catholics v. Protestants, Pre-trib v. Post-trib, Tongues today v. No tongues today, is glorifying to God?

By all means if youre looking for truth, or attempting to edify the body thats fine. But the sarcasm, arrogance, and hostility with which so many write their words- completely abolishes any edifying factor the content of their message may have initially held.

"If anyone does not consent to wholesome words...he is proud, knowing nothing, but obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife.. from which withdraw yourself." 1 Timothy 6:3-6

I just don't understand why we are commanded to: (1) study the word, look for truth, and uplift one another with that, and also (2) remain a unified body and practive love towards one another despite disagreement... yet so many cannot accomplish the former without trampling the latter.

Nothing of eternal significance has ever happened apart from love.

...so say it in love love love love love. ;)





.
Sometimes we men who love theology need the words of a wise woman to set us staight! But I could say this is the place to have these conversations because this is NOT the Church and arguing online is nothing incomparison to dividing up a church based on these important theological issues. These issues (well except for the post trib thing...) are important because they relate to the very being of who God is and How he has revealed himself. But I shall keep your words in mind as I continue to discuss amoung others.
 
Aug 25, 2009
46
0
0
#14
debate over what is and what should be in the bible has been going on since the writings in it were first written. what is foolish is to debate what it says and what is in it since that has been changed many times by many different ppl and what is currently in it can not and should not be taken as definitive. it is an ever evolving piece of literature and should be treated as such. a lot of ppl want to quote scripture to support the scripture but it doesnt work that way, at least not in a rational mind. all of the thousands of religious writings in existence say that they are true and the defintive word. that doesnt mean that they are, but in the christian mindset, that is exactly what is believed. most every christian thinks that the bible that they hold in their hand is what has existed for 2000 years since christ died, but that is just not the case. it has been changed, added to, taken away from, altered, and reinterpreted many many times since the time of christ. you all need to realize this, and if you dont, or you feel that im lying, do a little research and you wll see.
 
Jan 31, 2009
2,225
11
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#15
Pretty much the same thing I said to BLC. Im not discouraging anyone from speaking truth, if you really read through my post- I think its clear that its all about how we discuss these topics.

Yeah, be passionate about God and His word, but passion doesn't give people the right to insult others, give personal attacks, and use sarcasm to get points across. [Not sayin you do this, just saying in general.]

Personally I've never been offended by anyone on here, but reading how some have spoken to others breaks my heart! People can be really harsh.. and I'm not saying I've never done it either. I know how hard it is to remain humble and gentle about something you feel adamantly about.

I'm just encouraging everyone to be careful- and to season their words with grace when it comes to these debates.. because if it isn't said in love than it won't be effective.

so what do you do with this,. do you tell Jesus that he was wrong and that He didn't have enough love for the People
Mt 12:33Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.Mt 12:34O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
pretty much the same in the NIV now Jesus was talking to the religious sect here,
Mt 5:22But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother WITHOUT a CAUSE shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
or maybe you are reading from the Niv which takes out "without a Cause" which would thus imply that Jesus would be in danger of judgement

Matthew 5:22 (New International Version)

22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother[a]will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,[b]' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.


Footnotes:
  1. Matthew 5:22 Some manuscripts brother without cause
  2. Matthew 5:22 An Aramaic term of contempt
now look where the Niv would ahve to teach that Jesus was in danger of judgement
Mark 3:4-5 (New International Version)



4Then Jesus asked them, "Which is lawful on the Sabbath: to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?" But they remained silent. 5He looked around at them in anger and, deeply distressed at their stubborn hearts, said to the man, "Stretch out your hand." He stretched it out, and his hand was completely restored.



oh my, my!!! what web of confusion of false teachings we do weave when we stray from the true word of God. when they misuse/twist the Word it is a good cause to be angry
 

polarguyinak

Moderator
Staff member
Jan 30, 2009
143
9
18
#16
wow... Ariannaaa, maybe one out of four people seem to have paid any attention to or applied what you're suggesting.

I view this site as part of the church. I believe God does too. If concern for dividing God's people ends at the doors of the particular building you go to on Sundays, that's a sad game. It may not be a scheduled service, but the Spirit spends a lot of time here and speaks through many people, here as He does everywhere. I don't appreciate people being casual about being divisive because it "isn't a church". Converse, disagree, persuade; good! But act Christ-like! That's very obviously the point she's making. How is argument even stemming from that?? (Rhetorical - NOT requiring an answer, because it's self-explanitory).

One thing has become ABUNDANTLY clear. There have been a LOT of spiritual attacks going on lately...
Friends and family have been dying, marriages failing, friendships crumbling, depression is creeping into the minds of born-again followers of Christ, and for some reason, people can't seem to stay away from eachother's throats on C.C. lately...

I have been bringing this to the attention of members of C.C. as often as I can lately. If you value eachothers' and your own spiritual well-being, I suggest that you consider this an "Orange Alert" and be cognisant that the enemy is wandering like a lion, seeking whom he may devour - that includes in here. Don't be a tool to that end. Let love dictate your actions and the Spirit guard your tongue. Above all, be praying that this site and your actions and conversation will be a witness of the Grace and Love of Christ.

Think about it... everyone, please.

In Christ,
Nathan / PolarGuyInAK
 
Aug 17, 2007
496
4
18
#17
I completely agree with that. Jesus Christ loves everyone.

Do onto others as you want them to do onto you.
 

Sharp

Senior Member
May 5, 2009
2,565
19
38
#18
Sometimes we men who love theology need the words of a wise woman to set us staight! But I could say this is the place to have these conversations because this is NOT the Church and arguing online is nothing incomparison to dividing up a church based on these important theological issues. These issues (well except for the post trib thing...) are important because they relate to the very being of who God is and How he has revealed himself. But I shall keep your words in mind as I continue to discuss amoung others.

I take issue with this. This website is the only Christian community I truly belong to and I consider it to be my church. Just because there isn't a building, doesn't mean its not a church. It certainly shouldn't be a training ground for theology students and pastors of varying persuasions to refine their arguments against eachother - surely there are other avenues for this kind of thing. I don't think dividing an online community is any different from dividing a phsyical church.
 
Jan 8, 2009
7,576
23
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#19
Actually I believe these sorts of arguments should be commonplace even in churches and bible study groups where people are honestly seeking the truth for themselves like those smart Bereans and aren't simply being moulded to tow the denominational line no questions asked. Disagreement is not disunity. Disunity is when christians of various flavours refuse to associate and dialogue with one another over the dividing issues.
 

grace

Senior Member
Sep 8, 2006
1,064
11
0
51
#20
What I saw Arianna saying is....go ahead and discuss, grow, learn and yes....even dissagree, BUT...treat each other in love. Speak to each other in love. And as Shyness said...Do unto others as you want done unto you.
 
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