Historical Premillennialism.

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Apr 23, 2009
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I am what you would call a ''Historical Premillennialist''. It is called the Historical view because it is just that, it is the view of the Apostles and their disciples, it is also the view taught by Jesus and Paul in the scriptures.

The 1st Century Church including the apostles and their immediate disciples believed and taught.........

#1 That the church and the Israel of God are one. I do not believe in ''Replacement theology'' but that we were of 2 made 1 new man as taught in Ephesians 2:11-19 and that we are grafted into the true Israel of God as taught in Romans 11:17-24.

#2 That the just of all ages will be resurrected at the posttrib 2nd coming and that immediately after the resurrection of the just those that have survived the tribulation and remain alive will be caught up or ''raptured'' at that time. That we the dead in Christ and the living saint will receive immortal heavenly bodies at the posttrib 2nd coming as we are caught up to meet the Lord in the air as taught in 1st Cor 15:51-53, Philippians 3:20-21, 1st Thess 4:15-17, and 1st John 3:2

#3 At this point after the resurrection and the rapture Jesus will restore the Jewish nation that have not bowed to the anti christ as taught in Zechariah 12:10, Romans 11:25-26. Then He will purge the wicked by fire as taught in Matthew 3:12 and 2nd Thess 1:6-10. The Jews will enter the Millennium in their mortal bodies and populate it with mortal, while the church or the bride (those resurrected and raptured) will reign with Christ as kings and priests during the Millennium in immortal heavenly bodies as taught in Revelation 20:4-6.

#4 At the end of the Millennium Satan will be loosed from the bottomless pit, he will deceive a great multitude of mortals God will destroy them, then will come the great white throne judgment as taught in Revelation 20:7-15.

#5 After the Great White Throne judgment New Jerusalem will come down from Heaven to the New Earth we will live in the New Jerusalem with God the Father and Jesus Christ for all eternity, while the wicked suffer for all eternity in the Lake of Fire as taught in Revelation 21.


P.S. The Heaven and Earth that exists now will not exists after the White Throne Judgment.
 
Oct 23, 2009
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#2
#2 How do you define “just”?

#3 I believe Jesus taught us that to reign, we must wash the feet of those we’d reign over. Are you prepared for that?
 
Oct 17, 2009
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We have no record of Jesus teaching about a Millennial kingdom. Paul also has no record of teaching a Millennium. Jesus and Paul both told of a literal second coming, to be sure, but the only time we see 1000 years specifically mentioned is in Revelation, which is a highly metaphorical and symbolic book.

As for Paul's beliefs on the matter, it must be noted that Paul was apparently not very clear on the details of the Second Coming--he clearly thought that it would happen in or shortly after his lifetime.
 
Apr 23, 2009
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#2 How do you define “just”?
Well I guess the more biblical term would be justified/saved, covered by the blood of the Chrst. 1st Corinthians 15:20-23 refers to them as ''In Christ''

#3 I believe Jesus taught us that to reign, we must wash the feet of those we’d reign over. Are you prepared for that?
Yes I have no problem serving others, or waching feet. However in the Millennial Kingdom We will be kings and priest, not feet washers.
 
Apr 23, 2009
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#5
We have no record of Jesus teaching about a Millennial kingdom. Paul also has no record of teaching a Millennium. Jesus and Paul both told of a literal second coming, to be sure, but the only time we see 1000 years specifically mentioned is in Revelation, which is a highly metaphorical and symbolic book.
The Millennial reign is literal, not figurative

As for Paul's beliefs on the matter, it must be noted that Paul was apparently not very clear on the details of the Second Coming--he clearly thought that it would happen in or shortly after his lifetime.
Whether or not Paul believed that Christ would return in or shortly after his lifetime does not change the fact that Christ is still going to return and that the writing of Paul were inspired by God Himself therefore inerrant.
 
Oct 23, 2009
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#6
Yes I have no problem serving others, or waching feet. However in the Millennial Kingdom We will be kings and priest, not feet washers.
Being a king in this world means having your way. Being a king in heaven means putting the other guy first. Would you agree with this?

 
Apr 23, 2009
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#7
Being a king in this world means having your way. Being a king in heaven means putting the other guy first. Would you agree with this?

I agree, but I need to note during the Millennium we will not be in Heaven but on Earth, and we will be kings and priest lower cased ''k'' and ''p'' subservient to the King of kings, Lord of lord, the one and only true High Priest of the nations Jesus Christ. We will be ruling with Christ over those that have entered the Millennium in mortal human bodies. We that trust in Christ now will have been changed into our immortal Heavenly bodies when Christ returned at His 2nd coming.
 
Oct 23, 2009
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#8
I agree, but I need to note during the Millennium we will not be in Heaven but on Earth, and we will be kings and priest lower cased ''k'' and ''p'' subservient to the King of kings, Lord of lord, the one and only true High Priest of the nations Jesus Christ. We will be ruling with Christ over those that have entered the Millennium in mortal human bodies. We that trust in Christ now will have been changed into our immortal Heavenly bodies when Christ returned at His 2nd coming.
The reason I bring this up is that we are supposed to be humble, and I don’t think it’s healthy to have a desire to rule over people. If we are allowed to rule over other people, it’s only because the Lord is satisfied we are looking after the best interests of the people we rule over, I believe.
 
Apr 23, 2009
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The reason I bring this up is that we are supposed to be humble, and I don’t think it’s healthy to have a desire to rule over people. If we are allowed to rule over other people, it’s only because the Lord is satisfied we are looking after the best interests of the people we rule over, I believe.
I have no desire to rule over anyone. I am simply telling you what scripture teaches,, and what the 1st century church believed.
 
Oct 23, 2009
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#10
I have no desire to rule over anyone. I am simply telling you what scripture teaches,, and what the 1st century church believed.
A pet peeve I’ve picked up over the last few years is pridefulness. It seems to me there is an enormous amount of social climbing—power-mongering—that goes on in our churches. I am rather sensitive to people who want to put themselves in high places without earning the right to be there through obedience to the Lord. Maybe you’ve experienced the same thing.
 
Apr 23, 2009
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#11
A pet peeve I’ve picked up over the last few years is pridefulness. It seems to me there is an enormous amount of social climbing—power-mongering—that goes on in our churches. I am rather sensitive to people who want to put themselves in high places without earning the right to be there through obedience to the Lord. Maybe you’ve experienced the same thing.
I am no fan of todays church but Jesus said in Revelation 2

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

And Revelation 20 says...
Revelation 20
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

So without any pride or power grabbing I am simply conveying the teaching of the original church to their disciples. Even though I do agree with you that pridefulness and power grabbing is rampant in todays church and gets us nowhere. We cannot let our personal pet peeves keep us from believing what scripture teaches.
 
Oct 17, 2009
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#12
The Millennial reign is literal, not figurative
You know this... how?

Whether or not Paul believed that Christ would return in or shortly after his lifetime does not change the fact that Christ is still going to return and that the writing of Paul were inspired by God Himself therefore inerrant.
Which writings of Paul? How do we know if and when Paul was inspired by God? We've clearly established that Paul was wrong that the Return would happen in the immediate future. If he can express this incorrect position in Scripture, then we shouldn't assume that any of his other eschatology teaching is iron clad, especially when we don't fully understand them.
 
C

Cup-of-Ruin

Guest
#13
You know this... how?


Which writings of Paul? How do we know if and when Paul was inspired by God? We've clearly established that Paul was wrong that the Return would happen in the immediate future. If he can express this incorrect position in Scripture, then we shouldn't assume that any of his other eschatology teaching is iron clad, especially when we don't fully understand them.
Whoa...Are you saying Paul was not inspired by God? Paul is not expressing an incorrect position in scripture, he is in scripture, his words are scripture , there are no contradictions in scripture, it is true that you might not understand them, but his teahings are iron clad.
 
Oct 17, 2009
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#14
Whoa...Are you saying Paul was not inspired by God? Paul is not expressing an incorrect position in scripture, he is in scripture, his words are scripture , there are no contradictions in scripture, it is true that you might not understand them, but his teahings are iron clad.
Okay then, I guess I just missed the part where Jesus' second coming took place in the first century AD.
 
Apr 23, 2009
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#16
The Millennial reign is literal, not figurative
You know this... how?
Because I believe the Bible is true


Whether or not Paul believed that Christ would return in or shortly after his lifetime does not change the fact that Christ is still going to return and that the writing of Paul were inspired by God Himself therefore inerrant.
Which writings of Paul? How do we know if and when Paul was inspired by God? We've clearly established that Paul was wrong that the Return would happen in the immediate future. If he can express this incorrect position in Scripture, then we shouldn't assume that any of his other eschatology teaching is iron clad, especially when we don't fully understand them.
Seeing as you do not believe the Bible to be inerrant, i can understand why you do not believe in the millennium. When people do not belioeve the Bible they can make up any belief they want and quoting scripture that contradicts it means nothing to them
 
Apr 23, 2009
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#17
Whoa...Are you saying Paul was not inspired by God? Paul is not expressing an incorrect position in scripture, he is in scripture, his words are scripture , there are no contradictions in scripture, it is true that you might not understand them, but his teahings are iron clad.
Okay then, I guess I just missed the part where Jesus' second coming took place in the first century AD.
#1 Nowhere in scripture dies it say that Jesus would return in the 1st century.
#2 It is impossible to debate the biblical truth of any particular doctrine qwith someone that doesn;t believe the bible is true.
 
Apr 23, 2009
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#18
By the way it has not been established that Paul believed in the 1st century return of Christ
We've clearly established that Paul was wrong that the Return would happen in the immediate future. .
This is a false statement.
 
G

greatkraw

Guest
#19
I am what you would call a ''Historical Premillennialist''. It is called the Historical view because it is just that, it is the view of the Apostles and their disciples, it is also the view taught by Jesus and Paul in the scriptures.

The 1st Century Church including the apostles and their immediate disciples believed and taught.........

#1 That the church and the Israel of God are one. I do not believe in ''Replacement theology'' but that we were of 2 made 1 new man as taught in Ephesians 2:11-19 and that we are grafted into the true Israel of God as taught in Romans 11:17-24.

#2 That the just of all ages will be resurrected at the posttrib 2nd coming and that immediately after the resurrection of the just those that have survived the tribulation and remain alive will be caught up or ''raptured'' at that time. That we the dead in Christ and the living saint will receive immortal heavenly bodies at the posttrib 2nd coming as we are caught up to meet the Lord in the air as taught in 1st Cor 15:51-53, Philippians 3:20-21, 1st Thess 4:15-17, and 1st John 3:2

#3 At this point after the resurrection and the rapture Jesus will restore the Jewish nation that have not bowed to the anti christ as taught in Zechariah 12:10, Romans 11:25-26. Then He will purge the wicked by fire as taught in Matthew 3:12 and 2nd Thess 1:6-10. The Jews will enter the Millennium in their mortal bodies and populate it with mortal, while the church or the bride (those resurrected and raptured) will reign with Christ as kings and priests during the Millennium in immortal heavenly bodies as taught in Revelation 20:4-6.

#4 At the end of the Millennium Satan will be loosed from the bottomless pit, he will deceive a great multitude of mortals God will destroy them, then will come the great white throne judgment as taught in Revelation 20:7-15.

#5 After the Great White Throne judgment New Jerusalem will come down from Heaven to the New Earth we will live in the New Jerusalem with God the Father and Jesus Christ for all eternity, while the wicked suffer for all eternity in the Lake of Fire as taught in Revelation 21.

P.S. The Heaven and Earth that exists now will not exists after the White Throne Judgment.
statements in red are erronious
 
Apr 23, 2009
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#20
statements in red are erronious
You obviously need to study the teaching of the first century church, oh and while you are at it re-read you Bible.

Let God be true and every man a liar. Stop listening to man and start believing God.
 
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