Historical Premillennialism.
- Thread starter watchmen
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
- Status
G
Watchmen, I have been discipled all my life by the Holy Spirit. Knowing the Mind of Christ involves comprehending the whole counsel of God. Our biggest problem is our natural inclination to bring our limited understanding to the situation rather than accepting that God is incomprehensible and that, if things apppear inconsistent or contradictory, the problem is our capacity to comprehend. No doctrine stands or falls on its own. Whatever stand you take on one issue will affect your stand on many other issues. My Biblical Framework is consistent with the Old and New Testaments and consistent within itself.
Many of the disagreements here show that people have unclear definitions of Soteriology, Church, Holy Spirit, Israel and Eschatology to name a few.
Time and agin I see people misrepresent my position because of this.
When in doubt it is always best to take the scripture MORE literaly rather than LESS literally.
A wise Greek Millenia ago was asked,
'What is the true definition of wisdom?'
He thought then replied,
'True wisdom is NOT being guilty of the same errors which we so readily identify in others.'
Many of the disagreements here show that people have unclear definitions of Soteriology, Church, Holy Spirit, Israel and Eschatology to name a few.
Time and agin I see people misrepresent my position because of this.
When in doubt it is always best to take the scripture MORE literaly rather than LESS literally.
A wise Greek Millenia ago was asked,
'What is the true definition of wisdom?'
He thought then replied,
'True wisdom is NOT being guilty of the same errors which we so readily identify in others.'
C
'Watchman' is right all Israel and Judah became Christian, According to the Bible the Gospel was to go Judah first, which it did, then Israel which it did, then all desendants of Eber, then to the ends of the earth. Israel are a people, not a geographical location, and they were saved as is prophercised by Jeremiah 31:31-38 and confirmed in Hebrews 8:8-12.
I believe all Gentiles who accept Christ as their Savior are grafted in, and have become citizen of Israel by adoption through faith in Christ. But God has not abandoned His people He will return and restore the Jewish people to Himself.
This is what scripture teaches us Romans 11:17-24, Ephesians 2:11-19, and anyone that denies this truth denies God's word.
Dispensationalism is false plain and simple.
This is what scripture teaches us Romans 11:17-24, Ephesians 2:11-19, and anyone that denies this truth denies God's word.
Dispensationalism is false plain and simple.
C
oh well we actually disagree then, Because Jesus talks specifically about seed (sperm), also Israel was divided from Judah, there were two kingdoms, two lands, two tribes, one was Judah including Benjamin and the other was Israel consisting of the ten tribes who scattered after Assyrian captivity, only a remnant reterned to the northern kingdom of Israel, now Judea was seperate, so you are getting the two mixed up for beginners. Read my thread 'Who are the Gentiles' for knowledge on this.
In regard to Eph 2:11-19. the ethnos (Gentiles) which means in Greek and Latin 'Gens' and proper English 'Genteel of high noble birth of the same tribe, genus, gene, gentle, gentry', it means of the same tribe, so the children of Israel were divided and Israel (ten tribes) were divorced and were taken into captivity and then scattered, the scattered sheep of Israel, surely you must be familiar with this term, Jesus said 'I come only for the lost sheep of Israel'. As you can read - "And that He might reconcile both (Judah and Israel) unto God in one body (Christ) by the cross, having slain enimity thereby"... "For He is our peace, Who hath broken down the middle wall between us;"
apallotrioo (alien) means 'estranged away' from the politeia - community, citizenship, reconcile means to bring back that which was estranged, cast out as the 10 tribes of Israel was, but now as Paul says in Christ by the cross they are united as Christians, first the Gospel was to go to Judah and then to Israel whom are called ethnos, Jesus was from Judah but came from the land of the ethnos (Gentiles) Jesus was from Galilee of the Gentiles, When you graft it needs to be of the same stock that why Israel can be grafted back into Judah.
Now Israel was divorced in Jer. 8:3 - "I have put her away and given her a bill of divorce"
So we have the bride divorced, and then the remarriage according to God's own law of his Christian bride whom is saved Israel. And this divorce is also given in Isaiah 50:1 and Hosea 2:2!
Now legally the man dies, God married to Israel after the divorce in the form of Jesus Christ the divorced man dies, therefore allowing Israel to remarry, thus the charge of Adultery cannot be brought agsinst God, for remarrying Israel by the cross, her first husband had to die, after the cross, burial and ressurrection the husband is reunited with his first wife Israel, House of Israel is able to remarry as the bride, thus reconciling the connection between the formerly divorced house of God.
Isaiah chapter 40+ explains the coming of Christ and his relationship with Israel, same moredetailed account given in Hosea.
In regard to Eph 2:11-19. the ethnos (Gentiles) which means in Greek and Latin 'Gens' and proper English 'Genteel of high noble birth of the same tribe, genus, gene, gentle, gentry', it means of the same tribe, so the children of Israel were divided and Israel (ten tribes) were divorced and were taken into captivity and then scattered, the scattered sheep of Israel, surely you must be familiar with this term, Jesus said 'I come only for the lost sheep of Israel'. As you can read - "And that He might reconcile both (Judah and Israel) unto God in one body (Christ) by the cross, having slain enimity thereby"... "For He is our peace, Who hath broken down the middle wall between us;"
apallotrioo (alien) means 'estranged away' from the politeia - community, citizenship, reconcile means to bring back that which was estranged, cast out as the 10 tribes of Israel was, but now as Paul says in Christ by the cross they are united as Christians, first the Gospel was to go to Judah and then to Israel whom are called ethnos, Jesus was from Judah but came from the land of the ethnos (Gentiles) Jesus was from Galilee of the Gentiles, When you graft it needs to be of the same stock that why Israel can be grafted back into Judah.
Now Israel was divorced in Jer. 8:3 - "I have put her away and given her a bill of divorce"
So we have the bride divorced, and then the remarriage according to God's own law of his Christian bride whom is saved Israel. And this divorce is also given in Isaiah 50:1 and Hosea 2:2!
Now legally the man dies, God married to Israel after the divorce in the form of Jesus Christ the divorced man dies, therefore allowing Israel to remarry, thus the charge of Adultery cannot be brought agsinst God, for remarrying Israel by the cross, her first husband had to die, after the cross, burial and ressurrection the husband is reunited with his first wife Israel, House of Israel is able to remarry as the bride, thus reconciling the connection between the formerly divorced house of God.
Isaiah chapter 40+ explains the coming of Christ and his relationship with Israel, same moredetailed account given in Hosea.
My mind is open to God's truth, as opposed to you, who believes mans doctrine.
You cannot show one scripture to support your false beliefs.
Yet I can.
Roman 11
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
Ephesians 2
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
As the Bible tells us all who believe in Christ Jew or Gentile are citizens of Israel. If you deny this truth you deny God's word not mine.
You cannot show one scripture to support your false beliefs.
Yet I can.
Roman 11
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
Ephesians 2
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
As the Bible tells us all who believe in Christ Jew or Gentile are citizens of Israel. If you deny this truth you deny God's word not mine.
C
You might not be. But it says here in Hebrews 8:8; "Behold the days come saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the House of Israel and the house of Judah; Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in My covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the LORD! For this is the covenant that I will make with the House of Israel after those days, saith the LORD; I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS: and I will be to them a God and they shall be My people. And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and everyman his brother, saying 'know the LORD: for all shall know Me, from the least to the greatest, for I will be merciful to the unrighteous and their sins and their iniquities I will remember no more. IN THAT HE SAY "A NEW COVENANT" HE HATH MADE THE FIRST OLD. NOW THAT WHICH DECAYETH AND WAXETH OLD IS READY TO VANISH AWAY."
I can hardly be anti-semitic if I trace my lineage back to Shem. There is the New Covenant as it is written, is there another covenant? No that's the only one in the NT and it is prophecised by Jeremiah 31:31-38, that's the Covenant I am under.
I can hardly be anti-semitic if I trace my lineage back to Shem. There is the New Covenant as it is written, is there another covenant? No that's the only one in the NT and it is prophecised by Jeremiah 31:31-38, that's the Covenant I am under.
If you are speaking to me you are sadly mistaking all who believe in Christ become citizens of Israel with the saints of old. I love and support the Jewish nation as much as anyone, but that does not mean I need to believe a lie of satan. dispensationalism including the belief that Israel and the church are a separate entities is just that a lie of the enemy. Believing the truth of scripture does not make one antisemitic.
If you were speaking to cup of ruin. Then you are right he is dangerously antisemitic.
If you were speaking to cup of ruin. Then you are right he is dangerously antisemitic.
G
I assume you are circumcised then So am I.
This prophecy relates to the Millenial Reign of the Messiah which is still future. We also know that while Christ rules the World from Jerusalem and Israel is the Head not the Tail of the nations, the Church(ie the Bride of Christ) will REIGN WITH HIM!!!!!!
This prophecy relates to the Millenial Reign of the Messiah which is still future. We also know that while Christ rules the World from Jerusalem and Israel is the Head not the Tail of the nations, the Church(ie the Bride of Christ) will REIGN WITH HIM!!!!!!
- Status