Holiness

78jon · Apr 6, 2014

I've already been in front of the "cownsel" when I died one time. You misspelled it, its not council. A fat guy behind a judges bench with a nameplate on it. Cownsel is on the nameplate.

ji · Apr 6, 2014

78jon said:

Lol, funny. The SIN. I'm not sure where I got it from. A Holy Spirit will identify Herself as a Holy Spirit. The Spirit has always been there long before the creation of mankind, and has always been a Holy Spirit. Mankind didn't make up that title. The only way the word could have gotten into human dialect was someone who encountered a Holy Spirit, of course the Spirit will identify Herself as a Holy Spirit. So the word "Holy" sort of got stretched a little bit. Of course She is an "all knowing" Spirit. To be honest, nothing else should be called Holy. That Spirit is Holy, and trust me there is absolutely nothing else that can even come CLOSE to that Spirit. So the word Holy should only come before Spirit, that's my opinion if you can grasp what I'm trying to say. I'm not sure where I got "all knowing" from. An all knowing Spirit called Holy Spirit, sort of self defines Holy a little bit.

Holy Spirit is she???how?

ji · Apr 6, 2014

chubbena said:

What can claim to be a scholar when it comes to understanding Him?
Yet God demonstrated that it is possible for man to live absolutely pure, holy lives - hey remember our Saviour who came in the flesh just like you and me?

You are right we are not to live as the world does but today the line has become blurry. Much leaven has entered the lump wouldn't you agree? So how can we tell if one lives as the world or not?
Don't we all agree the bible is the infallible word of God? Didn't Paul say all scripture is God breathed and is useful for teaching for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness? So it depends on how one's definition is to live by the law isn't it - whether one thinks he can be justified or sees he's not worthy?

Can we be holy, as He is holy? Can we be perfect, for He is perfect?
I'm going to go out on a limb to ask this question - if He came in a weak flesh like you and me and through obedience lived a sinless life, why can't we? I don't have the answer.

The answer is the struggle to be Holy,so none gets puffed up.
God made it purposefully so none boast on their capabilities..

ji · Apr 6, 2014

RedTent said:

If you start with the OT and follow through with how it is explained through Christ, this post seems to cover it.

In the OT, something loses its holiness when something unclean touches it. The OT often uses physical things to represent spiritual ones, like death, dirt on hands, unclean blood, etc. That scripture gives ways to cleanse from the unholy so it is holy again.

The NT takes these physical things and shows us the spiritual. Scripture talks about sanctification, of separating things out to the use of God. Lives are to be separated from the world, people who live immoral lives are to be separated from the church, we are to be separated from sin through Christ.

Christ even said we were to be able to separate ourselves from our family for His sake: Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.”

This does mean God comes first in our lives and not literally forsake close ones...
Galatians 6 KJv is Applicable to every Christian..

God Bless

Jda016 · Apr 6, 2014

I guess I see holiness in two ways.

the Holiness that brings us to God is only through Jesus Christ. It is an imparted holiness that is not of our own doing.

The other way I see holiness is in terms of our choices. If a person cuts me off while driving, I can bless them or curse them. I have a choice to do what is holy as it lines up with God's word, or I have the choice to sin. I think this has to do with, "Be Holy for I am Holy." God is saying, "Make the right choices that line up with My word." Again, this is not the holiness that saves our souls, for that is only found in Christ.

Maybe I should use two different words. But that is basically how I personally see it.

IDEAtor · Apr 6, 2014

I searched for "Strong's Holy" and got this: Strong's Greek: 40. ἅγιος (hagios) -- sacred, holy
This is a neat link, too: Importance of Holiness - Where saved by grace meets faith without works is dead

IDEAtor · Apr 6, 2014

Here is the Hebrew word "holy":Strong's Hebrew: 6918. קָדוֹשׁ (qadosh) -- sacred, holy

Alfonz6463 · Apr 6, 2014

chubbena said:

You make good points and ask good questions. I agree that Jesus was God in the flesh, that He dressed Himself in our frailty in order that He would be the perfect lamb. And He was tempted in the same ways we are, but he resisted temptations in ways that I do not understand. Being both God and man, Jesus had a unique relationship with the Father that I cannot have in this world. Nonetheless, He is my example to follow and emulate. He is with me to lift me when I am down, counsel me when I am at a loss, and lead me when I am lost. He is my intercessor, my healer, by savior.

Can we ever live blameless and holy as He did? Where I work, we have adopted a guiding principle that says that all accidents and errors are preventable. This seems counter to what our logic would have us believe. But, you know, it is really a matter of perception. If we believe that all errors and accidents are preventable,, then we a re more likely to conduct ourselves in ways that prevent them. Maybe the question should be approached in the same way. "I can lead a, obedient and sinless life." If we believe this, then maybe we can do it. But that begs the question, are we then relying on our own ability, are we rejecting God in favor of our own efforts?

78jon · Apr 6, 2014

The Spirit appears as feminine to a child. In my opinion, that is so the child is less likely to fear Her. She appears as the head/face of a woman with pointy teeth, that just hovers in the air. I had possessions occur, so to anyone who spoke to the Spirit while She had me possessed, the Spirit may not be feminine. If someone refers to the Spirit in feminine tense, they've probably had interactions as a child with the Holy Spirit. Initial contact for me was feminine, so I refer to the Spirit as a She.

GrandHoboMaster · Apr 6, 2014

Jda016 said:

Yes, acctually Holliness is when you do will of Jesus (instead of your own will), and when Jesus's part grew up in your nature substitiuting your own (human's) personality.

But, as far one be successful in that (incredibly hard) task, as more pressure and attacs he will face from both: his human invorenment (society) and fallen spirits (devils who watch each step of us).

Read book of Job for better understanding what is the way of the true holliness.
And that is what meaning stay behind the phrase TO FOLLOW CHRIST.

78jon · Apr 6, 2014

Everyone doesn't sin. You are wrong. Very wrong. To be honest, I think that's written so the purest of the pure people can "humble" themselves and say "yes, I'm a sinner, so and so said it right here in the bible". My viewpoint, it gives them common grounds to be on the same page as someone who actually sinned, so they can talk to the sinner and humble themselves and say "I'm a sinner too". I'll give an example. A guy may stay a very angry person like myself. That's no sin. Go kill someone out of rage and anger and you have committed a wrath sin. Very extreme circumstance for a sin to occur.

Vernon · Apr 6, 2014

chubbena said:

Jesus Christ is the definition of holiness (obviously). We are called to live as Jesus lived, completely dedicated to the will of God.

Sacrificial love would be the epitome of holiness, no greater love than this ' to lay down one's own life for the sake of others.'

Observing the commandments of God comes naturally to the person born of the spirit. If you believe you must observe the dietary laws or any other law given by Moses to be holy then it would be a sin for you to not do so. 'To the one who knows to do good yet does not do it, to him it is sin.'

God looks at our heart and mind, he is not moved by our outward appearance, if you can not eat pork because you believe God has forbidden it then do not eat pork. But know this God is not condemning anyone to hell for eating pork, the wicked are judged for refusing to love God and love one another, without this love which Christ revealed no one shall see God. We fulfill the law by loving God and loving one another. Willfully disobeying the commandments of God shows a lack of love for God and his creation.

Christ be with you always.

RedTent · Apr 6, 2014

In 2014 we know of sin, the Holy Spirit, and obeying in heart and spirit. It is like we have grown up.

There is something to be said for the way the heart sand spirit was told to us in the OT. It was more instructions to just do it, and the heart and spirit would follow. We know that just doing obedience can so easily become legalistic doing, so we shy away from that. Sometimes I think we go too far with that idea. Our heart and spirit is necessary, but it isn't enough.

To be holy we must be sanctified, our purpose must be for God. As an example of the "just do it" people is a gathering on Sabbath evening that is dedicated to family fun and praise of the Lord, it is dedicated to the Lord in some families. Often those families don't even know Christ has come, but still they are just doing it. We live in a mortal body, I think that body has to follow, at least our spirit and truth. Sometimes the spirit and truth can follow where we live our life.

I don't think being holy has to do with concentrating on not sinning, so much as pulling ourselves apart from worldly occupations. I don't think we can take our sanctified body to some of the movies about how fun sin is. I don't think we can take our bodies to buy a car we treat as an idol to express how important we are in the world rather than a tool for transportation. I don't think we can take our bodies shopping on the day we designate the Sabbath unless it is absolutely necessary to express our love and caring for each other. These aren't hard and fast rules for everyone, what the rule is, I think, is we need to be aware in our daily living that we are sanctified and to be used by God for His purpose.

posthuman · Apr 6, 2014

78jon said:

it's great that you have an opinion, but Jesus had something to say too:

But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment;
whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council;
and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.
(Matthew 5:22)

are you wiser than Him?

78jon · Apr 6, 2014

If you go by everything Jesus said, that's your boat you sail. It's not mine. Jesus said alot, and the Holy Spirit didn't tell him to say everything he said. I realize Jesus purpose. His purpose was to die to save us from our sins, of course the Holy Spirit had him do this. Jesus had a whole lot to say during his travels on earth. That verse has absolutely no relation to what was being discussed either.

chubbena · Apr 8, 2014

ji said:

He was revealed alright as He's the very Word of God isn't He? What's not revealed completely was the salvation planned before the beginning of the world. He's the Word, He became flesh which was vulnerable to sin like you and me. The difference is, He overcame sin and lived according to the Word and set an example for men that His commandments are not difficult. Better still, He's the eternal sacrifice. In OT animal sacrifices were atonements for unintentional sins towards other people and holy things. No one could be saved through those sacrifices from deadly sins such as idolatry, dishonoring parents, murder and adultery. They couldn't even compensate for stealing and such.
His sacrifice is atonement for all sins, intentional and what not. I believe that's how the OT saints made perfect.
Sorry I was pondering on much of that and thus the late response.

chubbena · Apr 8, 2014

Cobus said:

WRONG!!!! You are made clean by the blood. You are made HOLY by the resurrection of Christ in you. How does God make a person HOLY? By IMPLANTING the Holy Spirit in you. It is a NEW heart not a modified heart. God does not take a stony heart and change it bit by bit to flesh. God REMOVES the stony heart. meaning we DIE off the old man. Lay doen the parts that makes us dirty by the power of HIS BLOOD AND CROSS.... God says purifieth (CLEANSING) ... look and we have to PURIFY OURSELVES.... Not God cleaning us WE CLEAN us..... 1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Any person that HOPES to be like Jesus when He somes, will PURIFY HIMSLEF.... How clean? As HE IS CLEAN... spotless!
And they do it by STOP getting dirty AS HE LEADS while we FOLLOW. And if we FOLLOW ALLTHE way till there is no more DIRT (sin) then we are as pure as he is but NOT YET HOLY!!!!! Read acts 8 where Philip got to Samria. And he CLEANED up all dirt but the Holy Spirit did not FALL ON NONE of them YET... they were SPOTLESS clean, but not HOLY not ONE of them.

Then the Apostles prayed and laid hands on them and they REVEIVED JESUS INTO THEIR FLESH.. .and htey were made HOLY AND PERFECT! .....WOW!!!! I hope to be like Him when He comes and I know He will make me LIKE HIM right here on earth as He did with Philip and with Samaria, save maybe Simon the OLD FALSE PROPHET of that city.... Simon the sourcerer.

As much as I like your post and many others, they don't give me a definition for holiness in NT. Is that something one can only feel, know, appreciate which can't express in words? I don't know.

chubbena · Apr 8, 2014

ji said:

But Cobus in post #38 said we are already made holy. Do you agree? So is it now a matter of keeping it holy rather than struggling to be holy? I don't know.

Cobus · Apr 8, 2014

Cubbena I will answer you with Scripture OK.... I pray God gives me the wisdom to relay His Word to you. Amen!
To understand holy I will use the description from the Greek word Hagios... It simply means SAINT.... A Saint is HAGIOS in Greek and the expanded meaning is.... Most holy (one), Spitiually pure, morally blameless. So it looks like this person is delivered by God into HIS HOLY PRESENCE....

Let me use a person in the bible that was BORN holy and you might see what it is that makes and keeps us holy. First you have to understand there is NO degree to holiness. It is either 100% or 0%. There is no inbetween. If you understnad this then the rest is really easy....

John the Baptist... God said to His parents that he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even from his mother's womb. Now! I had my spirit or still have. And that is why I CAN sin. Not have to sin but CAN sin. Every spirit can rule over sin, but only one can be HOLY! And for you to become holy you have to be made ONE with the Holy Spirit. Then your spirit is made HOLY by the Holy Spirit. John the Baptist was ONE with the Holy Spirit from birth Luke 1.

Do you see that we can CLEAN our spirits by the work of Jesus, but even a clean spirit is not HOLY. Holy Spirit is the ONLY One that can make a spirit holy. And He ONLY makes clean spirits holy.

If you have any questions about this, ask me and if you need Scripture to confirm this I will gladly give you the Scripture. And even if we are HOLY, as SAINTS are holy, God is STILL not finished with the job on us. That is why God says in Eph 4:11 to 13... That God appoints the men in office for the PERFECTING OF THE SAINTS.... See Saints are still to be perfected... And that is the EDIFYINg into the Body of Christ and the UNITY of the faith....

Ask please if I have to show Scripture to prove how God makes us GLORIOUS in Jesus and Jesus can be glorified in us.... John 17.

God bless my friend.

ji · Apr 8, 2014

Cobus said:

This is a Good explanation for Holiness,chubbena

"There is no inbetween. If you understnad this then the rest is really easy...." like he said.
However,we don't really understand the measures God have kept.
From what we have been provided through Holy Scripture the same Growth to Perfection is the journey to God's Perfect Holiness...which is not easy(is a struggle) since the road is narrow and troublesome...

"T[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]hese things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." John 16:33 KJV[/FONT]
A person who is in God's Holiness will have trials,
worldly person will not have..because satan has blinded his/her eyes.

And if anyone tells anyone that they are walking in 100% holiness in their walk with Christ,ask them to share their life..if they make excuse/avoid then you just saw a hypocrite

God Bless

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