How do I come closer to God?

MahogonySnail · Aug 8, 2009

Exactly. I think when Christians grow into adult Christians they need to feed themselves not rely solely upon a pastor/teacher. Not just get their weekly "church fix".
Enoch walked with God, and had no one else to fellowship with. Noah walked with God and all he had was his family to fellowship with.
The main reason many Christians go to church is not to fellowship but to gain acceptance from other people.

There is only one shepherd and that's Jesus. The notion of pastors/teachers shepherding the flock in a role of pastoral authority is unbiblical and frankly quite dangerous (there are numerous pseudo-churches/cults that demand devotion to a certain pastor/leader, many can start as reputable Baptist or independent or non-denominational churches, but the power goes to the pastor's/leaders head). In the new testament the words pastor and teacher are not thrown around as titles as they are today. They are roles and functions within the church but they are all brethren, no one greater than the other. The idea of being "under" anyone other than Jesus Christ is not founded in scripture. Neither is it biblical to have one pastor managing a flock under him. The new testament churches were based upon non-heirarchical, plural male leadership and these mature respected groups of individuals were the ones who shepherded the flock. Not one pastor out the front who they all had to "submit" to. . It functioned as a extended family. In Jesus's day, shepherds (pastors) was a lowly occupation. They held no great status or 'lording over' others. In the whole of the new testament there is no idea of being under the authority of a pastor, let alone needing to submit to one. In fact the word pastor (shepherd) is only found once in the whole new testament.

The ideas about being under the authority of a pastor etc comes from catholicism clergy/laity distinctions, and follows in the footsteps of the old testament style of doing things, with priests and go-betweens God and His people. In contrast, the New Testament leadership style is not based upon pastor/congregation or clergy/laity distinctions, but the priesthood of all believers and the gifts of the Spirit in all members of the church body, not just a few select leaders at the front.

BLC · Aug 8, 2009

Aliciaforjesus said:

I don't want you to go to any local assembly that does not have the love of God. Do you consider yourself to be a pastor of those that assemble at your home? If you do have a pastor-teacher that God has called you to in the will of God, then you understand the premise of God's will to be under one in the local assembly. You should have no problem with what I said to you and you would reverence God's word on that subject. When you mention you have a 'Pastor' are you referring to Jesus Christ or a man that God has called and given as a gift to the church? If you refer to Christ as your 'Pastor', He certainly is the Chief Shepherd but He calls and ordains men to represent Him and feed the flock as He illustrated with Peter and won him over to that calling through much grace and patience. So don't be offended because no one has attacked you, but rather grow in grace and knowledge of Christ.

Why would I spend my time with you if it was not for Christ's sake and for the sake the love of God. You love the brethren and many of them you do not know personally. You love lost souls because you have the love of God in your heart but you have not met many of them yet or given them the gospel. You love your neighbor even though they may hate and despise you. Are we to love only those that love us? I am your brother in Christ and have no pleasure in attacking you and do not judge you according to sin. If I did, that would be evil, but I can speak the truth in love and exhort you in it through grace, especially when I know it will benefit you in Christ.

Aliciaforjesus · Aug 8, 2009

BLC said:

It is a time to have your own faith in Jesus, not your Pastors!
There are so many churches who claim to know God, and they teach what seems to be right but most of them are missing a key to open up the blessings of God,
They are missing Love!
Most churches are like the Galatians Church, Law mixed with Grace, bewitched the word says!

Well, the Churches can only go as high as their Pastors!
Why do you think the churches in the USA are so messed up?
We have to many people putting their faith in other people to find God!
We all need to be unified as a body, but our body is all tore up!
We have things out of order,
The Pastor is not the one who is in charge of the church,
It is the Apostle first, Prophet second, and so forth like the word says!

Just because a person has the Title Pastor,Prophet, it is just a title!

Nebuchadnezzar, Pharaoh, The President, all have titles but what did John the Baptist, Elijah, and Jesus have that was different,
A testimony, it was their testimony that made the difference!
What they saw and heard God doing!
They did not get this from a Pastor,
It came from knowing God!
We are the children of Abraham right?
Did Abraham have a Pastor?
Did Abraham have a Bible?
He heard God, because God wanted Him too!

If the body of Christ is going to get unified it must focus on one thing, Love!

Love is what binds us together, it is what the scriptures command us to do!

We are commanded to Love God with all of our heart and all of our soul, with all of our strength.
And we are commanded to Love our neighbors as ourselves!

How could anybody, or any church ever be right if they are not teaching these two things!

People are so toss to and fro by Pastors who say they know God, but don't even know what Love really is!

They teach the word and they do err!

Many churches have become a clanging symbol, like banging a lid on a garbage can noise!

The only way to Get Closer to God is to obey His Commands to Love!

Without Love it is all meaningless,

How can you even understand the scriptures, if it is not read with a heart of love!

Faith mixed with love, can make the impossible become possible!

Love never Fails!

emancipated · Aug 8, 2009

Dude,
It's really simple IMHO.
Get your head around the fact that God Loves you and He is already with you all the time. If you can live in the reality that you are deeply unconditionally loved by Father God, you will begin to acknowledge Him more and in so doing pray & worship more.
Going to a church or bible study is great, but the reality is all of that has little to do with knowing Him. You can only know Him by spending time with Him.
Peace

jgrig2 · Aug 8, 2009

Much of this discussion seems to be focused on the subjective as opposed to the objective truth of the Gospel.
1. The truth about God
God is Holy and perfect. He created mankind to love and enjoy Him and delight in His very being. In God there is no sin and no evil and God cannot tollerate sin.
2. The truth about Man
God created a covenant of works with Adam, who was mankind's just representative with God, in that if he would obey this one commandment He would live (that is eternally). But Adam fell, and we all fell in Adam and the entire world also in Him. And this is just we know because God is not unfair and this is the teaching of Scripture. Would we have done anything differently?
3. The penalty for Man's sin
The penalty for man's sin is death. Not just temporal death here from earth but eternal death in separation from God. This fall from grace made us as humans completely separated from God in any redemptive sense and the secondary effects of sin effect every single aspect of our nature and being.
4. The grace and love of God through Jesus in the preached Word of the Gospel
Yet, God was kind and merciful and Gave the promise of the Gospel to Adam and Eve to believe by faith alone in order to receive the benefits of the sacrifice to come. And God has always given beautiful shadows of this promise and good news for redemption throughout the Old Testament. And Finally God the Son was incarnated and revealed to the World in the person of Jesus Christ, in fufillment of the scriptures, lived a perfect sinless life and obeyed the law of God and fulfilled this covenant requirements, as Adam could have done but did not, and died a substitutionary death in the place of all those would believe on his name! And on the third day rose bodily form the dead for our justification and by this resserection it showed that his death was acceptable to God for us, That Satan's kingdom was defeated (in the sense that its a guarentee not that it has been applied), and started the coming of the kingdom of God for if Jesus was resserected bodily so we shall be and it is the start of the New heavens and the new earth. It is a promise of things to come.
5. The responsibility of Man
What does this good news mean to us an an individual? God has commanded all the world to repent and believe this and we all are each responsible yet we are dead in tresspasses and sin, thus our only Hope is in God's grace. And when we hear the Good news we must respond by faith alone to this and if we do God WILL regenerate us and unite us Spriitually with Christ and the benefits of Christ and his perfect obedience will be imputed to us because your sin and evilness was imputed to Christ on the Cross. And we must choose this day with whom we shall serve: Christ and on his path to eternal victory or Satan and his path to eternal destruction.
---
That being said, you probably know all of this I jsut put it in very specific theological categories (And please note: while I am confessionally Reformed, I wrote this in such a way that Billy Graham, Calvin, Jacob Arminius, John Wessley, etc... could all afirm and its very broad). If all this is true and the Gospel is true and you have been saved by God objectively speaking YOU ARE A CHILD OF GOD ADOPTED IN THE FAMILY BY FAITH ALONE AND THE GRACE OF GOD ALONE. All the scripture points to this Gospel and this much be the center of all your Christian walk. There is a danger in Christian circles to think of the Gospel as something that gets people saved then its something we just use to tell non-christians to get them saved but its of no use to us (many would deny that but in de facto reality that is how it is lived out). In stead let me encourage you not to worry about things like books, small groups, internet chatrooms, etc... and go back to the fondations to the faith and live in light of that and then read the Bible in light of this truth. And then the Bible and its emphesis is what you ought to do in response to the Gospel. As for practically what I think the Bible commands the believer to do? I would say :
1. make sure you are saved
2. Join and be a member of a good local church that fits the so called 9 marks of a healthy church (www.9marks.org)
3. Live in community and attend faithfully this church and partake in the Lord Supper (assuming you have been already baptized which I believe is a requirement to partake in the lord's supper).

Any else beyond this may be good and helpful but these 3 things are the only things that I can see commanded in scripture.

*Scripture proofs and defense available on request.

BLC · Aug 8, 2009

We love God because He first loved us (1Jn 4:19). We have to receive the love of God that was demonstrated to us by Christ before we can reciprocate that love back to God. There is no other way we can receive that love that was demonstrated to us except by faith. When we receive the love of God it creates in us a capacity to love God and the Holy Spirit sheds that love in our heart toward others (Rom 5:5). Our faith is in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, who was sent by the Father because God is love.

A pastor is a sinner saved by grace just like you and me. Any pastor that is called by God through grace responds to that call by faith, the same way he responded to salvation in (Eph 2:8,9). God is the one who raises him up and equips him for the service that he is called to perform. He is to feed the flock of God. He is to lay his life down for the sheep. He is to labor in the word and doctrine and to preach the word in and out of season (). We are to honor, obey, submit and salute them because of their labour and work of love. If he sins he confesses his sin before God and is restored by grace, just like you and me. The pastor that is called by God is called to be God's mouthpiece. His job is to teach us the word of God and doctrine so that we all come to the unity of the faith, having the same faith or one faith (2Cor 4:13, Eph 4:5,13,). His faith is my faith and my faith is his because our faith is the faith of the son of God (Gal 2:20). I want to have like minded faith (Phil 2:2) so that we can walk together being agreed (Amos 3:3) and have unity and the oneness that Jesus prayed that we would have in (John 17:11).

These are the kinds of things that a pastor-teacher promotes in the body of Christ. He promotes it by teaching it, by living it, by encouraging others in it and being faithful to it. And as this takes place we all grow up in the grace and knowledge of it as it comes from God's mouthpiece.

Mt 10:40,41 'He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward'.

Is this passage of scripture spoken in vain by the Lord Jesus Christ?

Aliciaforjesus · Aug 8, 2009

emancipated said:

Dude,
It's really simple IMHO.
Get your head around the fact that God Loves you and He is already with you all the time. If you can live in the reality that you are deeply unconditionally loved by Father God, you will begin to acknowledge Him more and in so doing pray & worship more.
Going to a church or bible study is great, but the reality is all of that has little to do with knowing Him. You can only know Him by spending time with Him.
Peace

And the only way to get to know Him is to love others as yourself!

BLC · Aug 9, 2009

Aliciaforjesus & others,

As a believer, can we only accept certain aspects of God's word and refuse others aspects by esteeming the ones we accept over the ones we refuse to esteem? Was the whole counsel of God meant to be parceled and meeted out according to our liking or understanding? No! Jesus said in (John 10:35) that the scriptures can not be broken. If a man break or offend one point in the law he has broken or offended all of it (James 2:10). We receive the whole counsel (Acts 20:27) of God's word as inspired to profit us in doctrine, in reproof, in correction and instruction in righteousness (2Tim 3:16). That counsel is immutable and is of no private interpretation of the natural man (Heb 6:17, 2Pt 1:20, 1Cor 2:14). How can we know Him according to the understanding that He gives us through His word (1John 5:20) if we refuse the whole counsel of God?

Is it not the same Lord that said to love one another as I have loved you in (John 15:12), also the one that said through His word to obey them that have the rule over you and to know them that labor among you and are over you in the Lord and admonish you and to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake (Heb 3:17, 1Thes 5:12,13)? How can any believer do these things if they do not know those that God has placed over them in the Lord? This part of God's counsel is inspired and instructive and should be included in our faith as any other. If I did not love you (as I am commanded to do) as Christ has loved me, you would call that disobedience to God's command and pride on my part. Am I also to obey, in the love of God, the commands and instructions of (Heb 3:17, 1Thes 5:12,13)? If I refuse those instructive commandments, then I am taking the risk of blaspheming God's word and doctrine (1Tim 6:1, Titus 2:5). I don't see where the love of God would be involved in my blasphemy! That is why we are to keep the whole counsel of God that it may be profitable according to grace. If you love keep (all) my commandments (John 14:15).

BLC · Aug 11, 2009

Aliciaforjesus said:

Let's talk about the justice of God in relationship to the love of God that is esteem so highly. In relationship to God, who is love and is just (1Jn 2:8, Deut 32:4), which comes first with God, justice or love? Does the justice of God supersede His love or does love supersede His justice? Justice and judgment are the habitation of God's throne (Ps 89:14, 97:2) along with mercy (Prov 20:28, Is 16:5). When God the Father sent His Son to be a sacrifice for sin, was that just an act of love or was it superseded by God's justice, meaning that sin that separated man from God, had to be dealt with so that a holy God, who is perfect and just, could accept sinners who had been conceived in sin and come short of the glory of God because of that sin (Ps 51:5, Rom 3:23)?

God did not need to be motivated by His own love to act in terms of perfect justice to make a way for sinful man to be reconciled to Himself. But because He is love, God sent His Son. We, as sinners, are not reconciled to God because of love but rather because of the justice of God that was met through the sacrifice of His Son. Sin was paid for and judged by the Son through death. God loved the world because God is love. If love came before justice in God's plan to provide redemption for man through His Son, then all men would be saved by the sacrifice of Christ. The reason that people are confused about a loving God sending people to hell is because they do not understand the justice of God. Many believers are having problems with the justice of God as well.

The love of God does not send the wicked dead to the lake of fire (the second death), it is the justice of God that does that. The next time someone says to you that they don't believe that a loving God sends people to hell, you can tell them that a loving God doesn't do that but a holy, righteous and just God does, who provided a way through His own Son for all men to be saved. Love does not save anyone. The justice of God that was met through the work done and finished on the cross by Jesus Christ has been provided as salvation for sinful men. The love of God has no keeping power, we are kept by the power of God unto salvation (1Pt 1:5). Justice is not the result of the love of God, love is the result of God being just.

God's justice could have dealt with sin by removing all sinners off the face of the earth and He came very close to doing that with the flood. But God decided in His justice to provide a plan of redemption through grace and Noah found that grace in the eyes of the Lord and only eight souls were saved and spared from destruction. God decided through His own righteousness to be merciful and gracious to sinful man and provide a propitiation (a mercy seat) for sin through His Son (Rom 3:23, 1Jn 2:2,4:10). God provided this plan of redemption for man and to man through His Son as an act of justice. The justice of God was not subject or in subjection to the love of God. The love of God was totally in subjection to the justice of God that provided justification for man through the redemption that was found in His Son (Rom 3:24, 1Cor 1:30).

Our justification by grace and the blood of Christ was not the result of the love of God but rather the justice of God. The justice of God has made it possible for the Holy Spirit to shed that love abroad in our hearts toward the lost and toward one another. There would be no love toward sinners without the justice of God making it possible. When we as believers think of reconciliation, redemption, propitiation, regeneration, justification and salvation, we must think of them being accomplished by the justice of God and presented to man through the love of God. All the work was done through justice and presented to man by the love of God. The reason that love is what it is, is because justice did what it did. Love is what justice did. When we love one another as Christ has loved us (Eph 5:2,25), our love is according to the justice of God that worked out every problem between man and God as a finished work.

1jn32 · Aug 11, 2009

There are some good post here. I would add this: Look at Peter at the end of the gospels and then at the beginning of the book of Acts. He went from denying Christ to leading 5000 to Christ in one shot. He received the baptism of the Holy Spirit before leading the 5000 to Christ. See John chapters 14-16, Acts chapters 1-2. This same baptism is your you today. I also found a great online bible study at www.unleavenedbreadministries.org.

emancipated · Aug 14, 2009

[URL="http://christianchat.com/member.php?u=10929" said:

I very much disagree. I would say it is in fact our only hope.
Peace

watchmen · Aug 14, 2009

dothackzero said:

I would say if you want to get closer to God reading and mediatating on his word is most important, next is praying then come church ect.... I would suggest reading your Bible everyday as much as humanly possible.

phil36 · Aug 15, 2009

dothackzero, 2 books i think would be helpful to you. Holiness of God (RC Sproul) and Knowing God (JI Packer) they arew both classics and will help you. But the biggest help of course is the Helper, the Holy Spirit.

Ask your Pastor to take you through the meta story of the Bible, mine done that with me and it was a great help. you get to see the bible as a whole and not just split into divisions. one part I am looking at now is Abraham, read Genesis 12-25, John 8,Gal 3-4 and you will see that faith alone save's etc.

Also from the Fall, we see a glimpse of the Gospel (yet to be realised from that point in time) in 3:15 then it starts to take shape with the promises to Abraham Gen 12:1-3.. things like that.

It really helped me see God really working in history, and that he is above all things and overall things and in control of all things.

well hope that helps,
God Bless

Phil

dothackzero · Sep 15, 2009

Do you guys have anything else. I'm starting to feel like I want to get much closer to God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, but I can't figure out how. blah, I don't really know how to explain this feeling I have right now. But then again, it's not that surpising since I've been that good at explaining things anyway.

stillearning · Sep 15, 2009

[SIZE=+1]I hope and pray these Holy Scripture from our God Jesus help you and find a place in your heart and guide you into everlasting life in Jesus name[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]What you can do to Please God[/SIZE]

(Isaiah 43:7,21 KJV)
(7) {Even} every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him. (21) This people have I formed for myself; they shall shew forth my praise.

(John 4:23-24 KJV)
(23) But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. (24) God {is} a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship {him} in spirit and in truth.

(2 Chronicles 5:13-14 KJV)
(13) It came even to pass, as the trumpeters and singers {were} as one, to make one sound to be heard in praising and thanking the Lord; and when they lifted up {their} voice with the trumpets and cymbals and instruments of musick, and praised the Lord, {saying}, For {he is} good; for his mercy {endureth} for ever: that {then} the house was filled with a cloud, {even} the house of the Lord; (14) So that the priests could not stand to minister by reason of the cloud: for the glory of the Lord had filled the house of God.

(1 Peter 2:5,9 KJV)
(5) Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. (9) But ye {are} a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

(Hebrews 13:15-16 KJV)
(15) By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of {our} lips giving thanks to his name. (16) But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased.

(Revelation 4:11 KJV)
(11) Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

(Hebrews 11:6 KJV)
(6) But without faith {it is} impossible to please {him}: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and {that} he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

(Colossians 1:10 KJV)
(10) That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;

(Romans 12:1-2 KJV)
(1) I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, {which is} your reasonable service. (2) And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what {is} that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

(1 Timothy 2:1,3,8 KJV)
(1) I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, {and} giving of thanks, be made for all men; (3) For this {is} good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; (8) I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.

(Psalms 145:21 KJV)
(21) My mouth shall speak the praise of the Lord: and let all flesh bless his holy name for ever and ever.

(Psalms 109:30 KJV)
(30) I will greatly praise the Lord with my mouth; yea, I will praise him among the multitude.

(Psalms 47:1 KJV)
(1) O Clap your hands, all ye people; shout unto God with the voice of triumph.

(Psalms 147:11 KJV)
(11) The Lord taketh pleasure in them that fear him, in those that hope in his mercy.

(Psalms 149:1-6a KJV)
(1) Praise ye the Lord. Sing unto the Lord a new song, {and} his praise in the congregation of saints. (2) Let Israel rejoice in him that made him: let the children of Zion be joyful in their King. (3) Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp. (4) For the Lord taketh pleasure in his people: he will beautify the meek with salvation. (5) Let the saints be joyful in glory: let them sing aloud upon their beds. (6) {Let} the high {praises} of God {be} in their mouth.

(Romans 8:8-9a KJV)
(8) So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. (9) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit,

(1 John 3:22 KJV)
(22) And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

stillearning · Sep 15, 2009

Here is some more to help you

Reconciliation of man to God

John 12:32 (KJV)
(32) And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

John 3:14-17 (KJV)
(14) And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: (15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. (16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (17) For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

I John 4:10 (KJV)
(10) Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

2 Corinthians 5:19 (KJV)
(19) To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Hebrews 2:17 (KJV)
(17) Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Colossians 1:20 (KJV)
(20) And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Colossians 1:21 (KJV)
(21) And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

Romans 5:10 (KJV)
(10) For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

2 Corinthians 5:18 (KJV)
(18) And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

I John 2:1-2 (KJV)
(1) My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: (2) And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

2 Corinthians 5:20 (KJV)
(20) Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

MahogonySnail · Sep 15, 2009

dothack there's really nothing no one else can do for you, but for you to spend time quietly in God's presence and share your heart with His and you will find a much greater closeness.

dothackzero · Sep 15, 2009

MahogonySnail said:

That's part of my problem, I'm getting way too impatient. It's kinda like I wanna get closer, and I wanna get closer to them now.

MahogonySnail · Sep 15, 2009

Then maybe "prayer walks" will work better for you ? Some people feel closer to God when they're busy too, all depends on the person, hope you find whatever works for you, try to listen and follow your heart I guess

.

dothackzero · Sep 15, 2009

MahogonySnail said:

Well I definally was feeling something when I was talking to him while listening to secular heavy metal.

How do I come closer to God?

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