How Do You Reconcile These Two #2

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#1
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
3,650
113
#1
Exodus 1:15-20 (KJV) And the king of Egypt spake to the Hebrew midwives, of which the name of the one was Shiphrah, and the name of the other Puah: And he said, When ye do the office of a midwife to the Hebrew women, and see them upon the stools; if it be a son, then ye shall kill him: but if it be a daughter, then she shall live. But the midwives feared God, and did not as the king of Egypt commanded them, but saved the men children alive. And the king of Egypt called for the midwives, and said unto them, Why have ye done this thing, and have saved the men children alive? And the midwives said unto Pharaoh, Because the Hebrew women are not as the Egyptian women; for they are lively, and are delivered ere the midwives come in unto them. Therefore God dealt well with the midwives: and the people multiplied, and waxed very mighty.

Romans 13:1-2 (KJV) Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

In the light of the current Covid situation, this looms large for many Churches.
 
M

Micaiah-imla

Banned
#2
Feb 29, 2020
1,563
571
113
#2
crossnote said:
Exodus 1:15-20 (KJV) And the king of Egypt spake to the Hebrew midwives, of which the name of the one was Shiphrah, and the name of the other Puah: And he said, When ye do the office of a midwife to the Hebrew women, and see them upon the stools; if it be a son, then ye shall kill him: but if it be a daughter, then she shall live. But the midwives feared God, and did not as the king of Egypt commanded them, but saved the men children alive. And the king of Egypt called for the midwives, and said unto them, Why have ye done this thing, and have saved the men children alive? And the midwives said unto Pharaoh, Because the Hebrew women are not as the Egyptian women; for they are lively, and are delivered ere the midwives come in unto them. Therefore God dealt well with the midwives: and the people multiplied, and waxed very mighty.

Romans 13:1-2 (KJV) Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

In the light of the current Covid situation, this looms large for many Churches.
Click to expand...
Obey the ordinances of man for the Lord's sake except when it conflicts with the word of God and/or your conscience towards Him.
 
Corban

Corban

Banned
#3
Jun 11, 2020
1,370
424
83
73
#3
crossnote said:
Exodus 1:15-20 (KJV) And the king of Egypt spake to the Hebrew midwives, of which the name of the one was Shiphrah, and the name of the other Puah: And he said, When ye do the office of a midwife to the Hebrew women, and see them upon the stools; if it be a son, then ye shall kill him: but if it be a daughter, then she shall live. But the midwives feared God, and did not as the king of Egypt commanded them, but saved the men children alive. And the king of Egypt called for the midwives, and said unto them, Why have ye done this thing, and have saved the men children alive? And the midwives said unto Pharaoh, Because the Hebrew women are not as the Egyptian women; for they are lively, and are delivered ere the midwives come in unto them. Therefore God dealt well with the midwives: and the people multiplied, and waxed very mighty.

Romans 13:1-2 (KJV) Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

In the light of the current Covid situation, this looms large for many Churches.
Click to expand...
Exodus 1 takes place before Law of Moses was given. The prevailing law governing killing was anchored in the Covenant of the Rainbow, made with all men (Gen.9:17) through Noah, father of all post-flood men. Pharaoh is also subject to this law. The midwives did not transgress God, but they sure transgressed against Pharaoh - at terrible peril. There is no record of Pharaoh exacting retribution on these midwives. We could be reasonably sure that God made sure their excuses were accepted by Pharaoh - seeing as He had complete power over Pharaoh's heart (Ex.4:21, 7:3, etc.).

Romans 13, written long after the Law of Moses, and long after our Lord commanded to give to Caesar the things that were Caesar's, presents a dilemma for many Christians. In oppressive regimes, Christian gatherings are prohibited. What shall we then do? Well. if we return to the words of our Lord in Matthew 22:21 where is says; "... Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's", and we keep reading, it says; "... and (render) unto God the things that are God's." And God's House is called The Ekklesia, which means "the GATHERING of the select ones" And this thought is confirmed by a direct command in Hebrews 10:25, "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching."

Forbidding the gathering of Christians is the oldest way to damage the Church. In 1st Corinthians 12 we see most of the gifts, and they are mostly "speaking gifts". In Chapter 14 we how these speaking gifts are to be in action. This is confirmed in Ephesians Chapter 4. The GATHERINGS are for the gifted ones to speak unto EDIFICATION. To silence the speaking means NO BUILDING. Well has Ephesians 4:16 said, "From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love."

The Christian must weigh these things, pray - and then act to "render to God the things of God".
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#4
Jan 13, 2016
16,614
3,529
113
#4
Micaiah-imla said:
Obey the ordinances of man for the Lord's sake except when it conflicts with the word of God and/or your conscience towards Him.
Click to expand...
Peter said we’d rather obey God than man. Daniel did not give in to unholy laws to worship a false god.
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#5
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,188
113
#5
It is kind of odd how there are laws against churches opening because of too many people coming together in one place but then it is ok for people to protest and riot in the thousands.

What is even more strange is no media coverage on the spread of covid due to protesting and rioting. Apparently that is completely safe. But if you go to church that is dangerous... supposedly.


Do churches need to go away in order for Gods Judgement to fully come down on this place? Maybe... It reminds me of when Abraham was negotiating the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrha. He said if there are 50 righteous will you stay your hand? Then he negotiated down to 10 righteous.



Ahh... You side tracked me with the covid stuff Crossnote....


Maybe Christians not going to church is the way God is protecting His Righteous... His Ways are far above my ways and His Thoughts far above my thoughts.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#6
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
3,650
113
#6
John146 said:
Peter said we’d rather obey God than man. Daniel did not give in to unholy laws to worship a false god.
Click to expand...
But it wasn't Caesar (the government) requiring them to stop preaching, it was some religious rulers not appointed by God. This is a big difference from Romans 13:1-2.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#7
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
3,650
113
#7
Grandpa said:
Maybe Christians not going to church is the way God is protecting His Righteous... His Ways are far above my ways and His Thoughts far above my thoughts.
Click to expand...
OTOH, Maybe this closing of Churches is God's way of saying, "So you want to stay home and do Church on YouTube? Try this for many months!"
 
B

Bbrdrd

Banned
#8
Apr 2, 2020
1,144
425
83
#8
As Micaiah stated the reconciliation comes through obeying human ordinances except where they violate conscience towards God. In the case of the midwives being asked to murder in the name of the government is a higher crime than disobedience to worldly authorities and as such requires disobedience. Understanding that the spirit of the law is to preserve life we can see the same thing happen even with violating God's law, such as with David and the bread for the offering.

When it comes to restrictions placed for COVID it seems to me that obeying them in letter but violation in spirit is required. We have become too dependent on an organizational church and come to see the church not as a common Ekklesia but as a service offered in a building. We must still meet together in worship, yet because of the restrictions meeting in a common service is not an available route. We can, however, still come together in small house groups of individuals for the purpose of worshiping God together.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#9
Jul 8, 2018
8,287
1,183
113
#9
crossnote said:
Exodus 1:15-20 (KJV) And the king of Egypt spake to the Hebrew midwives, of which the name of the one was Shiphrah, and the name of the other Puah: And he said, When ye do the office of a midwife to the Hebrew women, and see them upon the stools; if it be a son, then ye shall kill him: but if it be a daughter, then she shall live. But the midwives feared God, and did not as the king of Egypt commanded them, but saved the men children alive. And the king of Egypt called for the midwives, and said unto them, Why have ye done this thing, and have saved the men children alive? And the midwives said unto Pharaoh, Because the Hebrew women are not as the Egyptian women; for they are lively, and are delivered ere the midwives come in unto them. Therefore God dealt well with the midwives: and the people multiplied, and waxed very mighty.

Romans 13:1-2 (KJV) Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

In the light of the current Covid situation, this looms large for many Churches.
Click to expand...
Yes, we should obey those that have the rule over us, unless man's law is contrary to God's law.

Acts 5:29, Peter and the other Apostles answered and said, we ought to obey God rather than man.

Heb 10:25, Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#10
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
3,650
113
#10
ForestGreenCook said:
Yes, we should obey those that have the rule over us, unless man's law is contrary to God's law.

Acts 5:29, Peter and the other Apostles answered and said, we ought to obey God rather than man.

Heb 10:25, Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is.
Click to expand...
Acts 5:29 I don't find applicable, because the Jewish Council no longer had authority over the Apostles.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.