How freewill salvation perverts God's Justice !

[Bassey]

Christ washed our sins and we became free(I agree). Beleive in him and heaven is yours (I agree). But you cant go around in sin and tell me all will be well on the day of rapture. What does the bible say about the day of rapture
[h=3]Matthew 24:42 [/h]Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming.

Jesus keeps repeating, telling us to stay awake he's trying to warn us about something. So we will not be deceived by false doctrines.

Matthew 7 : 21-24.
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

We can all draw out thousands of interpretation from this scripture .or we can just accept the simple truth of this passage which Jesus has said since 2000 years ago. ' Do the will of my Father no 2 ways about it, only those who endure TO THE END shall be saved. Matthews 24:13.

 

[jimmydiggs]

The extent of the invitation to salvation is to all...whosoever.
If Christ did not die for all then the invitation seems bogus.
Enlighten me.

It says whosoever will. Who will?

 

[konroh]

When Jesus told people to believe on Him, He was calling people to have faith in Him. This is something that anyone can do. We have faith. When people came to Jesus in faith He said, "My Father drew you to me." This is something that only God can do. So we have an infinite God drawing people to come to His Son and accept Him by faith.

Matthew 7 : 21-24.
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

The will of God the Father is that we should believe. That is the only work we need to do to be saved. But abiding in Christ and persevering are works that will give us reward, keep us from iniquity, cause us to have an intimate relationship with Christ.

We can all draw out thousands of interpretation from this scripture .or we can just accept the simple truth of this passage which Jesus has said since 2000 years ago. ' Do the will of my Father no 2 ways about it, only those who endure TO THE END shall be saved. Matthews 24:13.

Enduring to the end in the context of these verses is during the Tribulation period, those who endure will be physically saved at Christ's return, they will also enjoy full sanctification in their belief and their love will not grow cold, they will be rewarded believers. What is the end spoken of here? It is not the end of each one of our lives, the end here refers to the end of the Tribulation. Each one who believes is rewarded for persevering in faith, and will experience deliverance, but to say that I could negate my initial salvation based on faith by neglecting to endure in good works is like saying that I can stop being a son of my Dad and Mom if I displease them. I became a child of God through faith, nothing I do or don't do can change that. Can I displease my Father and not imitate Christ? Of course, but God will still love me and save me.

 

[notuptome]

John 1 states that Christ is the Light that lights every man. John 3:19 explains why men reject Christ. All men must choose because they received the knowledge of good and evil in the garden. Sin knowledge and the knowledge of Gods righteousness.

The question then becomes what will you do with the Savior for one day you will be asking what will He do with me.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[jimmydiggs]

When Jesus told people to believe on Him, He was calling people to have faith in Him. This is something that anyone can do. We have faith.

That's not what John 6:44 says, or Romans 8:7, or any number of verses. Those are just two that are undeniable if you're being honest with scripture.

 

[konroh]

I don't deny that God has to draw someone. But Jesus doesn't say, "Be drawn by God!" He says, "Come to me all ye who are weary and heavy laden and I will give you rest." It is only after someone responds in faith that He says, "My Father drew you." So to say that Jesus puts the call out to all to have faith is not incorrect.

How else would you see this verse: Jn 6:37On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. 38Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.”

Jesus calls for all to come and drink and have faith. Undisputable. But not all will come, not all will be drawn by God.

 

[svedbygrace]

kon

But Jesus doesn't say, "Be drawn by God!"

He does not have to say it. He knows how its done. He said this Jn 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The ones He tells to come to Him as Per Matt 11:28 are the same ones the Father draws to Him form Jn 6:44 ! His Will and the Fathers Will are the same and towards the same objects !

So your comment was futile , useless !

 

[svedbygrace]

kon

Jesus calls for all to come and drink and have faith

That's not True, He calls them that are Thirsty ? That's not all.

Notice what He says, He is very specific :

“Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink.

Jn 7:37

In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

So don't misrepresent what Jesus said, that's serious !

 

[BradC]

WRONG... God did not say ALL are called and few are chosen.... God said MANY are called few are chosen. Crossy some people is not given to Christ. And if you think God is unfair not to call ALL! Then you do not know God. Millions of people came into the world and died without EVER hearing the Name Jesus..... What happened to them? Were they EVER called? NOPE... so Again Crossnote you are not in Truth.

Crossy they will be judged by God and plenty of them witll enter into the Kingdom on judgment day. And MANY that calls Jesus Lord will be sent to hell.... If you do not know this, I can give you the Scripture to prove this. But then, you should know this.

Crossy when Jesus prayed, did He pray for the World, or those God gave Him and the ones that will be lieve in this.... Be PERFECT! ?????

Hopefully someday you will be able to understand this. The call of the gospel of Christ goes out into all the world and it is for all to hear. Those who hear it are called by the gospel and those who receive it are the ones who are saved and become God's chosen. Those who hear yet never believe have been called but God was unable to save them and they never became one of God's chosen. Those who received it have become God's elect and they are precious in his sight. Don't forget these things that have been recorded for our learning...

Psalm 19:1-5 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.

Eccl 12:1a Remember now thy Creator in the days of thy youth...

Romans 10:13-18 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

 

[svedbygrace]

How freewill salvation perverts God's Justice ! 4


Rom 6:23

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Unbelief is part of the death package for sin. The reason why men are
in unbelief or disobedience as per Rom 11:32

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Its an consequence of their sin, for unbelief is a symptom of death spiritual and imprisonment.

When in Unbelief or disobedience we are in a imprisonment, enclosed in, meaning that we are totally separated/alienated from the Life of God. We are enclosed in apart from the life of God. We have no participation of that Life, and that is what spiritual death is, its alienation from the liberty and freedom of the Life of God, and so as long as we are in unbelief, we are but abiding in death, and its a token of the imprisonment due for our sins !

But now, for those whom Christ died and hath satisfied God's Law and Justice, they as an token of that fact, must be set free from sin and death and unbelief, for the Gift of God, through Jesus Christ, has set them free from the penalty of their sins, so unbelief must be reversed as an evidence of it.

That's why Jesus said of those who heard His Ministry and believed not, it meant they were in a condemned state owing to their sins not having been paid for, so in unbelief they must remain, and those who did receive Him, it was an token that they were not condemned by their sins, God's Justice for them having been satisfied, their unbelief is reversed and its given unto them to believe on His Name Phil 1:29.

So again, if any for whom Christ died for, doeth die in their sins and unbelief Jn 8:24, God has been Unjust and is guilty of what is called double jeopardy.

Those who teach that Christ died for anyone and that soul goes to hell in their sins and unbelief Jn 8:24, they are guilty of charging God with double jeopardy !

 

[svedbygrace]

With the heart man believeth unto righteousness !


Rom 10:10

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

The false teachers and their followers go to this verse to teach that ones act of believing from their heart saves them.

That's salvation by their works, by their believing, a act of their own righteousness saved them.

But alas, the heart here in the text is a regenerated heart, a circumcised heart, one given in New Birth, or we must say that its an unregenerate heart, which is a uncircumcised heart like here Acts 7:51

Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

Now any heart not a circumcised heart is a uncircumcised heart.

The heart of man by nature is not only uncircumcised, but its as Jer wrote centuries agao Jer 17:9

9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Its said to be darkened Rom 1:21

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

It is said to be impentinent Rom 2:5

But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

In Blindness Eph 4:18

Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

The word blindness means:

I.
the covering with a callus

II.
obtrusiveness of mental discernment, dulled perception

III.
the mind of one has been blunted
A.
of stubbornness, obduracy

And the religionists of today false tell us that they were able to perform the act of believing with their unregenerate heart.

That word heart in Rom 10:10 also means:

a.
the soul or mind, as it is the fountain and seat of the thoughts, passions, desires, appetites, affections, purposes, endeavours

b.
of the understanding, the faculty and seat of the intelligence

c.
of the will and character

That means they believed with their minds and understandings in an unregenerate state with a wicked,uncircumcised, spiritually darkened heart.

A stony heart of flesh which we all have by nature Ezk 36:26

A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

The religionists are actually claiming they did with their stony heart, what Jesus taught that is done by the good heart Matt 13:23

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

See believing in Rom 10:10 with the heart denotes with understanding ! The Heart and understanding go together also. Jn 12:39-40

39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,

40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

But congratulations to the religionists, the Arminian, the freewillers and the rest, they believed on Christ, understood, and understood with a wicked, unregenerate, stony heart ! With that kind of heart they performed unto Righteousness Rom 10:10 ! 827

 

[Simiel]

Hebrews 10:26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace

People's life lived is what they really believe. They justify there sinning because of the flesh but when really you deny yourself and no longer live out your flesh but God's Spirit that you received.

When tempted is there not always a way out?

 

[svedbygrace]

Hebrews 10:26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace

People's life lived is what they really believe. They justify there sinning because of the flesh but when really you deny yourself and no longer live out your flesh but God's Spirit that you received.

When tempted is there not always a way out?

Post 31, you evaded it, why ?

 

[john832]

kon



That's not True, He calls them that are Thirsty ? That's not all.

Notice what He says, He is very specific :

“Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink.

Jn 7:37

In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

So don't misrepresent what Jesus said, that's serious !

And when is that Last Great Day of the Feast?

 

[svedbygrace]

And when is that Last Great Day of the Feast?

That's a rabbit trail question, if you want to know that then go study it !

 

[Simiel]

Post 31, you evaded it, why ?

Lol what's post 31?

 

[Wanderers]

Can both be right: Arminianism and Calvinism?

The bible alludes to predestination and free-will doesn't it? Even Paul copped out on this one when he wrote 'who are you, o man, to question God'.

 

[dcontroversal]

Agreed!
And Mark 16:16 clearly says some will be saved, and some not.

We actually had a class on salvation today and we did a group "verse search" for verses showing that some will not be saved.

For those who believe in everyone saved explain Galations 5: 19 - 21

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

What about Luke 16 and the rich man who died and lift up his eyes in hell?

 

[RedTent]

Those false teachers that tell us that Jesus Christ die for all the sinners amongst mankind, and yet they say multitudes for whom He did die, go to hell in unbelief and in their sins Jn 8:24

24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins[plural].

They do pervert God's Justice and here's how; For its liken unto this: Say a man was found guilty of a multitude of crimes against the State, in this he is justly sentenced to serve 25yrs as his punishment for those crimes. Upon release 25 yrs later, the following few days, he is again arrested and tried and found guilty of those same crimes, and sentenced to 25 yrs again as his just due punishment. That would be unjust would it not ? Was not Justice already served for those Crimes ? Of course it has, this is just a miscarriage of Justice, by convicting a criminal twice for the same crimes, and punishing him for the same, after justice has already been satisfied for those crimes.

Yet this is the conclusion we must come to, once we teach that those for whom Christ died, died for all their sins, satisfying all of God's Law and Justice for their crimes against His Holy Law, and now yet again they are made liable for those same crimes or sins, and this makes God a perverter of Justice.

If this man, upon his release, committed more crimes and was found guilty of those additional crimes, the 25 years he spent in prison would not cover the additional crimes. It would be a miscarriage of justice to let him go free because he had committed crimes before and paid.

 

[svedbygrace]

red

If this man, upon his release, committed more crimes and was found guilty of those additional crimes, the 25 years he spent in prison would not cover the additional crimes

No, he did not commit more crimes, he is being punished for the same crimes again, that the point ! That's the injustice !