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The law and transgressions of it are over. "The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it." Luke 16:16
Call me a liar, you call Jesus a liar. "for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain." Ga 2:21
Jesus was killed because he forgave people of wrong doing. The religious people of the day hated him because the Law of Moses, the Ten Commandments, were in place to bring wrong doers to justice.
Then Jesus comes along and says you are no longer under the law a I forgive you of all your sins. Preachers and evangelists of the day said that only God could forgive someone. Besides that, Jesus was disruptive to their ways of following the law of Moses and Abraham.
To forgive someone of all crimes and allow them to commit the crimes without payment is the same as committing the crime themselves. Aiding and abetting a crime. This is how they perceived Jesus, a law breaker and disruption to the religious structure. So they killed him.
Tell me, how many commandments will get you to heaven?
Call me a liar, you call Jesus a liar. "for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain." Ga 2:21
Jesus was killed because he forgave people of wrong doing. The religious people of the day hated him because the Law of Moses, the Ten Commandments, were in place to bring wrong doers to justice.
Then Jesus comes along and says you are no longer under the law a I forgive you of all your sins. Preachers and evangelists of the day said that only God could forgive someone. Besides that, Jesus was disruptive to their ways of following the law of Moses and Abraham.
To forgive someone of all crimes and allow them to commit the crimes without payment is the same as committing the crime themselves. Aiding and abetting a crime. This is how they perceived Jesus, a law breaker and disruption to the religious structure. So they killed him.
Tell me, how many commandments will get you to heaven?
Let this just go ahead and serve notice to ANYbody on here that displays the arrogance the AnRev has.
No, disagreeing with you is NOT the same as disagreing with the Bible. If you show this much arrogance, to claim otherwise, just expect that I WILL call you out on it. It's not the same, at all.
You are just a man. (or woman- the principle is the same)
No, I know, you're gonna object "I know I'm just a man" but no, no, no, you're not speaking like somebody that DOES realize that. So I repeat it..
You are just a man.
You're not G-d, you're not a prophet, you are JUST a man. This site is populated by plenty of OTHER people, who are ALSO just men.
They are just are qualified to read and interpret scripture as you are. And how blessed we are, to serve a G-d, that does NOT treasure intelligence as a virtue, but sees that often the most wicked among men ARE very intelligent, but twist that potential to selfish ends. So any of these equally qualified people CAN feel free to disagree with you, and it absolutely does NOT mean they disagree with G-d, or Jesus, or the prophets, or the Bible.
That is because (say it with me now!) You are just a man.
NOW on to your specific point, why stop at verse 16? Could it be perhaps, because it takes on a MUUUCH different meaning, if we read until verse 17 ?
No, disagreeing with you is NOT the same as disagreing with the Bible. If you show this much arrogance, to claim otherwise, just expect that I WILL call you out on it. It's not the same, at all.
You are just a man. (or woman- the principle is the same)
No, I know, you're gonna object "I know I'm just a man" but no, no, no, you're not speaking like somebody that DOES realize that. So I repeat it..
You are just a man.
You're not G-d, you're not a prophet, you are JUST a man. This site is populated by plenty of OTHER people, who are ALSO just men.
They are just are qualified to read and interpret scripture as you are. And how blessed we are, to serve a G-d, that does NOT treasure intelligence as a virtue, but sees that often the most wicked among men ARE very intelligent, but twist that potential to selfish ends. So any of these equally qualified people CAN feel free to disagree with you, and it absolutely does NOT mean they disagree with G-d, or Jesus, or the prophets, or the Bible.
That is because (say it with me now!) You are just a man.
NOW on to your specific point, why stop at verse 16? Could it be perhaps, because it takes on a MUUUCH different meaning, if we read until verse 17 ?
A
I haven't read this whole thread through so forgive me if this question has already been answered, but who are these experts on grace that you talk about who say we should not obey the commandments? I've never heard anyone say that. Granted, this is an issue that I think is important when it comes to the way Christians become involved in politics. I know many Christians who will support a candidate based on their views of abortion and same-sex marriage alone, even if the candidate also supports us owning bombs that target civilians. So, politically, Christians often behave as if the Bible only has two commandments.
G
Jesus was asked, which of the laws were most important. He replied, ' To love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind, and to love your neighbor as yourself.
It's as simple as that. All commandments are summed up in love. If you love God with everything then you will automatically obey as much as possible.
It's as simple as that. All commandments are summed up in love. If you love God with everything then you will automatically obey as much as possible.
Quoted for truth!
It's kinda funny, isn't it? Everybody talks about picking up their cross and following Him, but when it comes down to it, there are all these excuses of why they don't have to.
I think the average Christian reads the Bible, and is mainly worried about their own soul. I admit, I was no better. When I got saved, I wasn't looking to live my life for G-d. I just didn't want to go to hell.
Which means that action was every BIT as selfish as anything else I'd ever done, up to that point. But I like to think that G-d has started a work in me, to make me something more than that same selfish person I was when I got saved. Definitely today, a matter doesn't have to affect MY eternity, for me to be concerned with it. If it's pleasing to G-d, what's the problem? Why don't we just do it ?
After all, if THAT'S the extent to which we're willing to follow G-d... JUST far enough to make it into heave, and no further, did we really even live that life for Him? Thankfully, I dont have to wrestle with such thoughts, as that is for G-d to judge.
But it might benefit others to think of these things. Are you REALLY laying down your own desires, to follow Him, Christian ? Or are you doing the bare minimum just to even make it into His presence? And if so, is that even going to work ? Or won't He understand that you haven't given Him your heart, or control of your life, the paths you walk ? Won't He know, who submitted everything to Him, and who taught others to do the bare minimum ?
It's kinda funny, isn't it? Everybody talks about picking up their cross and following Him, but when it comes down to it, there are all these excuses of why they don't have to.
I think the average Christian reads the Bible, and is mainly worried about their own soul. I admit, I was no better. When I got saved, I wasn't looking to live my life for G-d. I just didn't want to go to hell.
Which means that action was every BIT as selfish as anything else I'd ever done, up to that point. But I like to think that G-d has started a work in me, to make me something more than that same selfish person I was when I got saved. Definitely today, a matter doesn't have to affect MY eternity, for me to be concerned with it. If it's pleasing to G-d, what's the problem? Why don't we just do it ?
After all, if THAT'S the extent to which we're willing to follow G-d... JUST far enough to make it into heave, and no further, did we really even live that life for Him? Thankfully, I dont have to wrestle with such thoughts, as that is for G-d to judge.
But it might benefit others to think of these things. Are you REALLY laying down your own desires, to follow Him, Christian ? Or are you doing the bare minimum just to even make it into His presence? And if so, is that even going to work ? Or won't He understand that you haven't given Him your heart, or control of your life, the paths you walk ? Won't He know, who submitted everything to Him, and who taught others to do the bare minimum ?
Take your arguments elsewhere.
"And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail." Luke 16:17
"knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified." Ga 2:16
You must not be aware of what the bible says or what law is in effect these days.
Ancilla probably said it as nice as it can be said, we are under no law to obtain salvation. Therefore the only purpose any commandment can serve is to suggest a style of living and a way of reflecting on our fellow man.
You can call me out on any matter you wish, but I doubt seriously you would find the success you think is there. You don't have near as MUUUCH the understanding that I have. There are no commandments that we are obligated to follow.
Loving God and loving your neighbor have limitations. Such as this, if Satan is the God of this world, I am under no obligation to listen to him or any of his followers. If your neighbor is one who does good to you in return, I am under no obligation to do good to anyone else. "do not cast pearls before swine."
For me to love God is to stand up for what is my understanding of what is written. To disagree with me, IS to disagree with what is written. Call me a liar, you call Jesus a liar.
"And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail." Luke 16:17
"knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified." Ga 2:16
You must not be aware of what the bible says or what law is in effect these days.
Ancilla probably said it as nice as it can be said, we are under no law to obtain salvation. Therefore the only purpose any commandment can serve is to suggest a style of living and a way of reflecting on our fellow man.
You can call me out on any matter you wish, but I doubt seriously you would find the success you think is there. You don't have near as MUUUCH the understanding that I have. There are no commandments that we are obligated to follow.
Loving God and loving your neighbor have limitations. Such as this, if Satan is the God of this world, I am under no obligation to listen to him or any of his followers. If your neighbor is one who does good to you in return, I am under no obligation to do good to anyone else. "do not cast pearls before swine."
For me to love God is to stand up for what is my understanding of what is written. To disagree with me, IS to disagree with what is written. Call me a liar, you call Jesus a liar.
Ah, but that's the point.
I DON'T call Jesus a liar, but I still can and will call you a liar, when you make yourself as if you were Jesus.
You don't have His authority, you don't have His discernment, you are NOT the Word of G-d made flesh and sent to dwell among men, therefore YES, we CAN call you a liar, without calling Him a liar.
And in point of fact, I AM compelled to do so again,BECAUSE you have made yourself out to be Jesus, and as one speaking with His authority, when in fact...
You Are Just A Man.
... and for the record, so am I. But I've never claimed that disagreeing with me is the same as disagreeing with G-d, so therein lies the difference. I am probably equally convicted on what I believe as you are, except that I do remember the Bible's words in my MANNER of speaking, as well as in the WORDS I speak-
Let someone else praise you, and not your own mouth,
A stranger and not your own lips.
(Proverbs 27)
I DON'T call Jesus a liar, but I still can and will call you a liar, when you make yourself as if you were Jesus.
You don't have His authority, you don't have His discernment, you are NOT the Word of G-d made flesh and sent to dwell among men, therefore YES, we CAN call you a liar, without calling Him a liar.
And in point of fact, I AM compelled to do so again,BECAUSE you have made yourself out to be Jesus, and as one speaking with His authority, when in fact...
You Are Just A Man.
... and for the record, so am I. But I've never claimed that disagreeing with me is the same as disagreeing with G-d, so therein lies the difference. I am probably equally convicted on what I believe as you are, except that I do remember the Bible's words in my MANNER of speaking, as well as in the WORDS I speak-
Let someone else praise you, and not your own mouth,
A stranger and not your own lips.
(Proverbs 27)
That's where you're wrong again, if you have authority to quote the bible and voice your opinion, then so do I. "Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me." Mat 25:40 Call me a liar, you call Jesus a liar.
You don't know what I have. Not everyone receives the same amount from God.
"And to one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one, to each according to his own ability; and immediately he went on a journey." Mat 25:15
We mock what we don't understand, o'talented one.
You don't know what I have. Not everyone receives the same amount from God.
"And to one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one, to each according to his own ability; and immediately he went on a journey." Mat 25:15
We mock what we don't understand, o'talented one.
AnRev, if anyone in this thread is mocking, it would be you. You are being hateful towards others. Show a little love towards your neighbor please?
And no, Yeshua did NOT break God's law. Did he follow what man had made the Law into? No. His "work" was to do as God commanded. He was following the law exactly as God intended for us to.For it is folly to look purely at the letter of the Law, but at the meaning and intention behind the Law. What had happened was that walls had been built so far around the Law that the intention and meaning were not being followed. What is the point about being externally obedient if your heart is not obedient?
And no, Yeshua did NOT break God's law. Did he follow what man had made the Law into? No. His "work" was to do as God commanded. He was following the law exactly as God intended for us to.For it is folly to look purely at the letter of the Law, but at the meaning and intention behind the Law. What had happened was that walls had been built so far around the Law that the intention and meaning were not being followed. What is the point about being externally obedient if your heart is not obedient?
What I find hilarious yet disgusting is that so many Christians claim to know "the spirit of the law" and that "those odious Jews" follow the letter of the law, when in reality, the whole theology in Christianity ABOUT the law is all about the letter of the law and doesn't grasp the spirit of the law.
Irony at its finest.
Irony at its finest.
S
Hello AnRev I have been reading your responses through out this entire thread and I do have to say I completely disagree with your view. See you are putting yourself higher than the rest of us because I dont know maybe your a little bit older than us and you have life experience but something that doesnt make sense is how you are making it seem like we don't sin. That since we are christians we don't thats what it sounds like to me. Which according to the bible is completely heretical. Considering all have fallen short of the Glory of God. Meaning we have nothing good about us. We are evil wicked beings that sin.
To say that we dont sin is wrong considering the fact that we are not perfect. Jesus was the only man to walk on this earth perfect and blameless.
"If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives" (1 John 1:8-10).
1 John clearly states that is we claim that we do not have sin then we deceive ourselves. Paul, however, puts this in perspective in Romans 3:20, when he says, "Therefore no one will be declared righteous in His sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin."
Can we actually argue with that right there? By no means!!! We can not argue with Jesus when he says in Matthew 5:17
17(A) "Do not think that I have come to abolish(B) the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but(C) to fulfill them.
I do believe that is another reason why we must follow the Law. Not the 600 and something laws the Pharisees followed but the Law of God. The 10 commandments. Luke 18:18-23 is another example for following the Law
18(A) And a ruler asked him, "Good Teacher, what must I do to(B) inherit eternal life?" 19And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone. 20You know the commandments
C) 'Do not commit adultery, Do not murder, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother.'" 21And he said,(D) "All these I have kept from my youth." 22When Jesus heard this, he said to him, "One thing you still lack.(E) Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have(F) treasure in heaven; and come, follow me." 23(G) But when he heard these things, he became very sad, for he was extremely rich.Ok now I have a question for you AnRev. What is sin? In your opinion what is it? Also I would like to confront you on your love towards others. The second most important commandment is to love your neighbor as yourself but I read up above how you told someone to get out of the conversation or argument. I do believe this thread is open for all. And if pride comes in any of us then we should jsut shut our mouths and move on. This is a conversation amongst fellow brothers and sisters in Christ which means we aren't enemies. For everyone in here we should stay positive and not put anyone down. If you disagree with someone then you can say something but not to prove your right. We are all still learning. I hope you guys all have a good evening!!! Also any thoughts on what I said?
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