How many People Think the Jews Could Be Wrong?

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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,698
4,444
113
#1
I will keep this short. It seems to me a LOT of Christians think the JEWS in 1212, could not be wrong about Where the TEMPLE MOUNT should be, and where the Mt. Zion has to be ? ? ? Keep in mind, the were exiled by the ROMANS for over 1000 years.

Here is a drawing that kind of says it all, that I stitched together a lot of it from different other drawings, and added what is obvious in errors due to lack of reading all Historical Documents from Josephus, and combined what with my corrections, in their Drawings, to make it as near to the Truth as I could get it. I did an over four years study on this subject, and know Scripture, and Josephus, and searching the Internet on the history of the ROMAN X Legion, to come up with this conclusion. The JEWS GOT THE TEMPLE MOUNT WRONG ON LOCATION. AND MT. ZION WAS A DIFFERENT MOUTAIN ALL TO GETTER. THE OPHEL IS MT. ZION.

1668061961897.png

See the Covered Walkway above, called a Cloister, on the left end is where Josephus was when he made this notation:

DID YOU NOTICE THAT ON THIS FACT SHEET FROM JOSEPHUS:

QUOTE:

But if we go the other way westward, it began at the same place; and extended through a place called Bethso, to the gate of the Essenes: and after that it went southward: having its bending above the fountain Siloam; where it also bends again towards the east at Solomon’s pool, and reaches as far as a certain place which they called Ophlas [what they called the OPHEL at that time], where it was joined to the eastern cloister of the temple. The second wall took its beginning from that gate which they called Gennath, which belonged to the first wall. It only encompassed the northern quarter of the city, and reached as far as the tower Antonia. - Josephus The Jewish War Book V chapter 4
:END QUOTE.


Josephus, was born 37 AD to Died at 100 AD. He did most of his writing shortly before 70 AD. I consider him to be about the only Eye-Witness we have. After Josephus became a Christian, the Jews called him an EXAGGERATOR.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
45,350
19,464
113
#2

The Temple Mount is not where the world thinks it is

:)
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
3,075
1,824
113
Texas
#3
I think it does not matter. God had the temple destroyed and the people scattered so that it would be lost forever. Because Jesus is the temple, and in him is salvation. Not in geography and lineages and rituals.
 

Jocund

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2021
1,563
502
113
#4
I think it's a neat historical tidbit, but is there any part of scripture that actually talks about a third earthly temple? And what purpose would it serve?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,698
4,444
113
#5

The Temple Mount is not where the world thinks it is

:)
Yes, that video, is the ONE that started me on my quest to prove the TEMPLE was located on the OPHEL, over 4 years ago.

I think I have proved it, and that the four Corners of the so-called Temple Mount was actually home for the Roman X Legion.

In the THIRD TEMPLE NEWS thread.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
4,154
1,619
113
#6
It seems to me a LOT of Christians think the JEWS in 1212, could not be wrong about Where the TEMPLE MOUNT should be, and where the Mt. Zion has to be ? ? ?
I know, I was thinking just the other day those Jews in 1212 probably had it right.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,698
4,444
113
#7
I think it does not matter. God had the temple destroyed and the people scattered so that it would be lost forever. Because Jesus is the temple, and in him is salvation. Not in geography and lineages and rituals.

You forgot something:

Isaiah 46:11 (HCSB)
11 . . . Yes, I have spoken; so I will also bring it about. I have planned it; I will also do it.


2 Thessalonians 2:3-12 (NKJV)
3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. {No errors in the Bible in original manuscripts.}
5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?
6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time.
7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.
8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,
10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,698
4,444
113
#8
I think it's a neat historical tidbit, but is there any part of scripture that actually talks about a third earthly temple? And what purpose would it serve?

See my Post #7.
 

Jocund

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2021
1,563
502
113
#9
You forgot something:

Isaiah 46:11 (HCSB)
11 . . . Yes, I have spoken; so I will also bring it about. I have planned it; I will also do it.


2 Thessalonians 2:3-12 (NKJV)
3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. {No errors in the Bible in original manuscripts.}
5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?
6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time.
7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.
8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,
10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
"Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit." - Eph 2:19-22 KJV

This Ephesians passage could satisfy the 2 Thes 2:4 prophesy.

Is there something you can see that would disallow this?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
19,137
9,919
113
#10
I think it's a neat historical tidbit, but is there any part of scripture that actually talks about a third earthly temple? And what purpose would it serve?
Yes. There are several passages which speak of a third temple (without necessarily calling it that). Paul was writing 2 Thessalonians 2:3,4 around 51-52 AD and here is what he wrote: 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

We know that the 2nd temple was destroyed in 70 AD, but what was prophesied above did not happen between 50 and 70 AD. So Paul was speaking about a future teimple, just as Jesus spoke about a future temple in which the Abomination of Desolation would stand in the Holy Place.

No one can claim that the third temple will NOT be built where the previous temple was (and that was built were Solomon's temple was). Conjectures on this are dangerous. The thing that Christians must understand is that there must be third temple in order to fulfil this and other prophecies.
 

Jocund

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2021
1,563
502
113
#11
Yes. There are several passages which speak of a third temple (without necessarily calling it that). Paul was writing 2 Thessalonians 2:3,4 around 51-52 AD and here is what he wrote: 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

We know that the 2nd temple was destroyed in 70 AD, but what was prophesied above did not happen between 50 and 70 AD. So Paul was speaking about a future teimple, just as Jesus spoke about a future temple in which the Abomination of Desolation would stand in the Holy Place.

No one can claim that the third temple will NOT be built where the previous temple was (and that was built were Solomon's temple was). Conjectures on this are dangerous. The thing that Christians must understand is that there must be third temple in order to fulfil this and other prophecies.
I agree that 2 Thes 2 has a prophesy that needs to be satisfied, but what is stopping Eph 2:19-22 from being the "temple" of the 2 Thes 2 prophesy?
 

Bob-Carabbio

Active member
Jun 24, 2020
295
159
43
#12
I will keep this short. It seems to me a LOT of Christians think the JEWS in 1212, could not be wrong about Where the TEMPLE MOUNT should be,
The Jews have been WRONG about everything else of importance. why not that??
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
19,137
9,919
113
#13
I agree that 2 Thes 2 has a prophesy that needs to be satisfied, but what is stopping Eph 2:19-22 from being the "temple" of the 2 Thes 2 prophesy?
Two different temples. One is a spiritual reality and the second is a material building. They can certainly exist side-by-side. Indeed the Church (the temple of the Holy Spirit) will be absent from the earth when that prophecy is fulfilled.
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
3,075
1,824
113
Texas
#14
You forgot something:

Isaiah 46:11 (HCSB)
11 . . . Yes, I have spoken; so I will also bring it about. I have planned it; I will also do it.


2 Thessalonians 2:3-12 (NKJV)
3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. {No errors in the Bible in original manuscripts.}
5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?
6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time.
7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.
8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,
10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Except that any temple built now will not be the temple of God.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,698
4,444
113
#15
The Jews have been WRONG about everything else of importance. why not that??
Some people find it easier to just chime in with the majority, rather that use discernment of what is TRUE, from what is FALSE.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,698
4,444
113
#16

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
3,075
1,824
113
Texas
#17
REREAD the verses that I posted in Post #7.

And apparently you do not know their is a Fourth Temple Prophesied in Ezekiel 40-48. Some say CHRIST will built the Millennial TEMPLE HIMSELF .

Perhaps you need more studying, such as:

https://www.gotquestions.org/Ezekiel-temple.html
The temple described in Ezekiel is not built by humans and no man of sin will ever stand in that temple.
Also i dont think this is a millinial temple.
He said this temple exists
And he said he will dwell in their midst forever.
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
3,610
1,576
113
#18
I will keep this short. It seems to me a LOT of Christians think the JEWS in 1212, could not be wrong about Where the TEMPLE MOUNT should be, and where the Mt. Zion has to be ? ? ? Keep in mind, the were exiled by the ROMANS for over 1000 years.

Here is a drawing that kind of says it all, that I stitched together a lot of it from different other drawings, and added what is obvious in errors due to lack of reading all Historical Documents from Josephus, and combined what with my corrections, in their Drawings, to make it as near to the Truth as I could get it. I did an over four years study on this subject, and know Scripture, and Josephus, and searching the Internet on the history of the ROMAN X Legion, to come up with this conclusion. The JEWS GOT THE TEMPLE MOUNT WRONG ON LOCATION. AND MT. ZION WAS A DIFFERENT MOUTAIN ALL TO GETTER. THE OPHEL IS MT. ZION.

View attachment 245176

See the Covered Walkway above, called a Cloister, on the left end is where Josephus was when he made this notation:

DID YOU NOTICE THAT ON THIS FACT SHEET FROM JOSEPHUS:

QUOTE:
But if we go the other way westward, it began at the same place; and extended through a place called Bethso, to the gate of the Essenes: and after that it went southward: having its bending above the fountain Siloam; where it also bends again towards the east at Solomon’s pool, and reaches as far as a certain place which they called Ophlas [what they called the OPHEL at that time], where it was joined to the eastern cloister of the temple. The second wall took its beginning from that gate which they called Gennath, which belonged to the first wall. It only encompassed the northern quarter of the city, and reached as far as the tower Antonia. - Josephus The Jewish War Book V chapter 4
:END QUOTE.


Josephus, was born 37 AD to Died at 100 AD. He did most of his writing shortly before 70 AD. I consider him to be about the only Eye-Witness we have. After Josephus became a Christian, the Jews called him an EXAGGERATOR.
Relying heavily upon Josephus's as accurate is not exactly recommended.

First off he was considered a traitor and by extension, a liar by the Jews.

Secondly,
his works have not been accurately transcribed over the years. Where you likely are using the popular American version there are actually 3 or 4 different versions of his works...all saying something different.

Thirdly,
The third Temple is extremely politically charged. You are talking about the entire Muslim community rising up in opposition to the creation of any Temple on that mount. Constantine's mother was only able to construct what exists there today because most soldiers were dead.

Look at the riots in the Church of the Holy Sepulcher over the moving of a folding chair....they will be considered nothing but a loud prayer by comparison with the actions surrounding the actual building of the Jewish Temple.

However....it's going to eventually come to a head someday.

The Dome of the Rock was constructed on top of the terrace created by Herod some 300 years earlier. The Jews tunneled throughout this terrace. The Dome of the Rock is actually a complex of buildings just like the Temple of Herod's day...some above and below ground. They actually used the cedar beams and stone that King David and Solomon had made. 4,000 year old wood is brittle.
The whole area is geologically active....meaning that small earthquakes continue to shake the ancient structures. Several places in the retaining wall have collapsed.

On top of this the Muslims do not perform ANY maintenance in Jerusalem....not even picking up litter...trash is strewn about everywhere. When one of the buildings collapsed the Muslims were useless in reconstruction....but we did learn a lot during the reconstruction.

Today there is a huge stash of riot gear waiting for the coming riot for the IDF to use. I'm not so sure that the Palestinians are so well equipped...they don't have much of a government. It's been destroyed from within by graft and the skimming of public servant's pay. It will be worse than the police in New Orleans during a flood.

The IDF can take the Temple Mount any day they want to totalling maybe 15 minutes at most...but keeping it? Literally the whole Christian vs Muslim world will instantly be at war.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
7,533
2,796
113
#19
I think it does not matter. God had the temple destroyed and the people scattered so that it would be lost forever. Because Jesus is the temple, and in him is salvation. Not in geography and lineages and rituals.
the Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:8-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

standing in Jerusalem jesus declares

“Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:36‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;

and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.”
‭‭Daniel‬ ‭9:26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the messiah was sent to them

“But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.

( but the messiah was cut off )

But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.

(and so desolation was determined and the kingdom was taken from them and offered to all )

When the Lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, The same is become the head of the corner: This is the Lord's doing, And it is marvellous in our eyes?

Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭21:37-43‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s really written plainly what happened

“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:34-35‬ ‭

and when he comes he said he’s going to utterly destroy them

When the Lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

“And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Your so right Jesus is Gods temple and we are his temple now he doesn’t meet us upon a mercy seat made of gold through Moses and levites he meets us in our heart through the gospel of Jesus Christ and by him we worship in the true temple by the spirit

“What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭6:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

They didn’t have this they had a poor and impersonal pattern of it . there is no use for a man made temple or sacrifices of animals are ten tablets engraved in stone reminding us what we better not do or die

we have the gospel now it’s the reality and not the temporary earthly pattern now we can just follow the lord and his word in the gospel and live by his spirit and promise which we receive


“Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬


The temple is not necassary anymore and isn’t part of Gods kingdom

“And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:22‬ ‭

we are in Christ now not cast out of his presence and kept away by fire but he came to us and made the way
 

HealthAndHappiness

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2022
2,829
1,138
113
#20
I will keep this short. It seems to me a LOT of Christians think the JEWS in 1212, could not be wrong about Where the TEMPLE MOUNT should be, and where the Mt. Zion has to be ? ? ? Keep in mind, the were exiled by the ROMANS for over 1000 years.

Here is a drawing that kind of says it all, that I stitched together a lot of it from different other drawings, and added what is obvious in errors due to lack of reading all Historical Documents from Josephus, and combined what with my corrections, in their Drawings, to make it as near to the Truth as I could get it. I did an over four years study on this subject, and know Scripture, and Josephus, and searching the Internet on the history of the ROMAN X Legion, to come up with this conclusion. The JEWS GOT THE TEMPLE MOUNT WRONG ON LOCATION. AND MT. ZION WAS A DIFFERENT MOUTAIN ALL TO GETTER. THE OPHEL IS MT. ZION.

View attachment 245176

See the Covered Walkway above, called a Cloister, on the left end is where Josephus was when he made this notation:

DID YOU NOTICE THAT ON THIS FACT SHEET FROM JOSEPHUS:

QUOTE:
But if we go the other way westward, it began at the same place; and extended through a place called Bethso, to the gate of the Essenes: and after that it went southward: having its bending above the fountain Siloam; where it also bends again towards the east at Solomon’s pool, and reaches as far as a certain place which they called Ophlas [what they called the OPHEL at that time], where it was joined to the eastern cloister of the temple. The second wall took its beginning from that gate which they called Gennath, which belonged to the first wall. It only encompassed the northern quarter of the city, and reached as far as the tower Antonia. - Josephus The Jewish War Book V chapter 4
:END QUOTE.


Josephus, was born 37 AD to Died at 100 AD. He did most of his writing shortly before 70 AD. I consider him to be about the only Eye-Witness we have. After Josephus became a Christian, the Jews called him an EXAGGERATOR.
They were wrong about a LOT of things, many times, and they are still wrong. It's about time that whole part of the world, including the Ashkenazis, look to the location of the real temple that's in heaven. The only way they will see that is through rejection of their wicked religions and faith in Jesus Christ.