How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

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Laura798

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Jun 6, 2020
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More opposition to plain Bible truth from Laura. Are you here to troll or simply sow the seeds of doubt and confusion? But so that no one listens to Laura's NONSENSE, I will post Scripture to refute the above statement which makes God a liar:
And it came to pass, when the LORD would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal. (2 Kings 2:1)

And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. (2 Kings 2:11)

So the real issue is "What causes people to flatly deny what is in the Bible?"
Please note that I responded to LUCY and not to YOU.

What strange and nonsensicla comments you all make-I am quoting SCRIPTURE. obviously since Elijah is still alive, evidence by writing the letter to Jehoram and the prophet Obadiah says that God is going to carry him (Elijah) off to where "he knows not"--

You all are the ones that speak so rudely and even call quoted scripture verses BALONEY.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going. 9 By faith he made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise. 10 For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God. 11 And by faith even Sarah, who was past childbearing age, was enabled to bear children because she[b] considered him faithful who had made the promise. 12 And so from this one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore.
13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth. 14 People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. 15 If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.
Also Divine Water Mark tried to say Enoch was somehow a category to himself, however these verses are bookended by Abel and Sarah--then in verse 13 it says "All these people were still living by faith when they died.
Nope... not what I said or meant.

I said the section starting with verse 8 (re: ABRAHAM and those following) are who the section of vv.8-15,13 is referencing (no one from verse 7 and prior is being talked about in v.13's "THESE ['these', in particular; G3778] all died in [*kata - according to / in accordance with] faith..." [*not "in [en]" nor "in [dia]" as are used in other verses of this chapter]--But again, refer to the article I had provided at link for better explanation ;) ... as well as EXAMINING VERSE 15 (which verse, in CONTEXT, is NOT TALKING ABOUT NOAH OR ENOCH OR ABEL...HELLO!:D )
 

cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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Adding to this that CV5 has truncated the verse--who is he trying to fool here?

Here is the rest of the story:

…38And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and Philip baptized him. 39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord carried Philip away, and the eunuch saw him no more, but went on his way rejoicing. 40But Philip appeared at Azotus and traveled through that region, preaching the gospel in all the towns until he came to Caesarea.…Act 8:38-39
Lol....a "lesser type"....obviously. Thats what I stated....maybe you get it, maybe you don't. :whistle:
 

Icedaisey

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Jul 19, 2021
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They do. I just proved it using scripture.



Certainly you can use scripture to prove your claim here? I'll look forward to you proving this with scripture.




Scripture is clear church is here for GT. It's the entire purpose of the GT.
No, you actually didn't prove it with scripture. And after all these pages of posts proving a premise like you also posit against the church with regard to the GT, I'm not going to repeat myself to that which believes Masochism is Christian and God is a Sadist. And tragically you're not the only one here who worships that as an idea.

Which at least explains those who also insist Salvation isn't secure, we have to obey to stay saved, and we can evict the Holy Spirit and erase His Seal by choice or our inaction should we fail to work and obey to the very end, so to then have earned our salvation.

The last part of your remarks demonstrate those are your precepts from which you argue against the Truth of God in Christ.
"Scripture is clear church is here for GT. It's the entire purpose of the GT."
(GT=Great Tribulation.)

That can never be proven by rightly dividing the words of God. Never!

You're not aware of that. Because you clearly have yet to read Jeremiah 30! And particularly verse 11. That tells you the "why" behind the GT.

This does not of course erase the import of the prophecies in Daniel.
 

DavidTree

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Aug 2, 2021
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That is not how it works. The Bible is not a textbook of theology, and Bible truth is to be discerned spiritually.

1. So the first question is this: "In the Bible is Christ presented to us as the divine Bridegroom, and is the Church presented to us as the Bride of Christ, which will ultimately become the wife of the Lamb?" The answer should be obvious.

2. The second question is this: "Does the Marriage of the Lamb take place on earth or in Heaven (God's Heaven)" And once again the answer is obvious from Revelation 19.

3. The third question is this: "Does the Marriage of the Lamb occur just before the Second Coming of Christ to earth WITH His saints and angels?" And once again the answer is obvious from Revelation 19.

4. Therefore, in order for the saints to come with Christ at His Second Coming it was absolutely necessary for all of them to be in Heaven for the Marriage of the Lamb.

5. And since the Marriage of the Lamb in Heaven occurs while the Great Tribulation is proceeding on earth, it should be obvious that the Rapture CANNOT be after the Tribulation. Therefore the Resurrection/Rapture occurs BEFORE the Tribulation and Great Tribulation. So when Christ spoke about the Rapture in John 14:1-3, He IMPLIED that it would be before the Tribulation. And that is the answer to your question.

6. Consequently the Post-Tribulation Rapture theory is total nonsense and should be discarded out of hand. It does make Christ a liar.
You never answered the question nor did you provide any clear scripture from the Lord or the Apostles stating:
Jesus will pre-trib rapture His Bride/His Saints/His Elect/His Church.

What you did in your post is talk about what you believe is true based on your assumptions.

EXAMPLE: So when Christ spoke about the Rapture in John 14:1-3, He IMPLIED that it would be before the Tribulation.
And that is the answer to your question.


Best way to go about this would be to take one thought at a time - provide a scripture(s) that says 'pre-trib rapture.
Simple, straight forward evidence.
 

cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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They do. I just proved it using scripture.



Certainly you can use scripture to prove your claim here? I'll look forward to you proving this with scripture.




Scripture is clear church is here for GT. It's the entire purpose of the GT.
No you've got that all wrong. Daniel's 70th week pertains primarily to Israel (Dan 9:24).
It is the beginning of the beginning of the redemption of a DISOBEDIENT, UNBELIEVING, UNREDEEMED Israel promised in vast quantities of OT (and NT!) passages. Yes some gentiles are redeemed along the way known as tribulation saints. This too is prophesied in so many OT passages.

What about the Church you may ask? Does Daniels 70th week/God's wrath so noted in Revelation pertain to them? NO. Absolutely positively not in the least. The justified made perfectly holy and righteous Church cleansed and redeemed by the blood of the Lamb is not appointed to wrath.

The Church is edited out of the book of Revelation from any and all wrath. The 24 Elders are always and only spectators worshiping commenting and observing God's actions from the heavenly realm.
 

ewq1938

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Oct 18, 2018
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The Church is edited out of the book of Revelation from any and all wrath.
That's completely false. The bible PROMISES the church wrath!

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


That's wrath of satan promised to fall upon the church! You can see that in Revelation 11 and 13.
 

ewq1938

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Oct 18, 2018
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No, you actually didn't prove it with scripture.
Yes I did.



The last part of your remarks demonstrate those are your precepts from which you argue against the Truth of God in Christ.
"Scripture is clear church is here for GT. It's the entire purpose of the GT."
(GT=Great Tribulation.)
I don't argue against the Truth of God in Christ. You do that.
 

cv5

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That's completely false. The bible PROMISES the church wrath!

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


That's wrath of satan promised to fall upon the church! You can see that in Revelation 11 and 13.
Tribulation saints my friend tribulation saints.......;)
 
Aug 20, 2021
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No, you actually didn't prove it with scripture. And after all these pages of posts proving a premise like you also posit against the church with regard to the GT, I'm not going to repeat myself to that which believes Masochism is Christian and God is a Sadist. And tragically you're not the only one here who worships that as an idea.

Which at least explains those who also insist Salvation isn't secure, we have to obey to stay saved, and we can evict the Holy Spirit and erase His Seal by choice or our inaction should we fail to work and obey to the very end, so to then have earned our salvation.

The last part of your remarks demonstrate those are your precepts from which you argue against the Truth of God in Christ.
"Scripture is clear church is here for GT. It's the entire purpose of the GT."
(GT=Great Tribulation.)

That can never be proven by rightly dividing the words of God. Never!

You're not aware of that. Because you clearly have yet to read Jeremiah 30! And particularly verse 11. That tells you the "why" behind the GT.

This does not of course erase the import of the prophecies in Daniel.
If Jesus could not convince some.What chance do we have?
 

Icedaisey

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Jul 19, 2021
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That's completely false. The bible PROMISES the church wrath!

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


That's wrath of satan promised to fall upon the church! You can see that in Revelation 11 and 13.
Of course not!

Genesis 5:24
Genesis 19
God took those men out of the way before he brought catastrophe upon their lands.
You insist the whole purpose of the Great Tribulation, there is a Tribulation period that precedes that, is for the church to suffer it. Not true. Not that you'll ever change your mind. What an odd view but one that is counter to a merciful God.
The church will not suffer the Great Tribulation! And certainly, nothing says the GT is preplanned by God so that his church, the body of we indwelt faithful in Christ, can suffer it.

Meanwhile, for others who are willing to learn what scripture says:
Will the “Rapture” Be Pre-, Mid-, or Post-Daniel’s Seventieth Week?
The following seven evidences point to a pretribulational rapture. In this writer’s opinion, they create a far more compelling case than the reasoning given for any other time of the rapture., these verses have likely all been referred to in the course of this discussion already. I figured an outside source may assist to reiterate what many of us have said already.



1. The Church Is Not Mentioned in Revelation 6–18 as Being on Earth
The common NT term for “church” (ekklesia) is used 19 times in Revelation 1–3, a section that deals with the historical church of the first century toward the end of the apostle John’s life (ca. AD 95). However, “church” is then used only once more in the twenty-two chapter book, and that use is at the very end (22:16) when John returns to addressing the first-century church. Most interesting is the fact that nowhere during the period of Daniel’s seventieth week is the term for “church” used for believers on earth (cf. Rev. 4–19).
It is unexpected that John would shift from detailed instructions for the church to complete silence about the church in the subsequent 13 chapters if, in fact, the church did continue into the tribulation. If the church will experience the tribulation of Daniel’s seventieth week, then surely the most detailed study of tribulation events would include an account of the church’s role—but it does not. The only timing of the rapture that would account for this frequent mention of “church” in Revelation 1–3 and the total absence of the “church” on earth until Revelation 22:16 is a pretribulational rapture which will relocate the church from earth to heaven prior to Daniel’s seventieth week.
Looking at this observation from another perspective, it is also true that nowhere in Scripture is it taught that the church and Israel would coexist as the centers for God’s redemptive message and yet remain mutually exclusive.
Today, the church universal is God’s human channel of redemptive truth. Revelation gives indications that the Jewish remnant will be God’s human instrument during Daniel’s seventieth week. The narrative abruptly shifts from the “church” in Revelation 2–3 to the 144,000 Jews from the twelve tribes in Revelation 7 and 14. Readers must ask, “Why?”
Further, because Revelation 12 is a mini-synopsis of the entire tribulation period and because the woman who gave birth to the male child (Rev. 12:1–13) is Israel, then the Tribulation period focuses on the nation of Israel, not the church. How could this be? Because a pretribulational rapture has removed the “church” from the earth prior to Daniel’s seventieth week.

2. The Rapture Is Rendered Inconsequential if it is Posttribulational

First, if God miraculously preserves the church through the tribulation, why have a rapture? If it is to avoid the wrath of God at Armageddon, then why would God not continue to protect the saints on earth (as is postulated by posttribulationism) just as He protected Israel (see Exod. 8:22; 9:4, 26; 10:23; 11:7) from the wrath He poured out on Pharaoh and Egypt. Further, if the purpose of the rapture is for living saints to avoid Armageddon, why also resurrect the saints who are already immune at the same time?
Second, if the rapture will take place in connection with the Lord’s posttribulational coming, the subsequent separation of the sheep from the goats (see Matt. 25:31 ff.) will be redundant. Separation will have taken place in the very act of translation.
Third, if all tribulation believers are raptured and glorified just prior to the inauguration of the millennial Kingdom, who then will populate and propagate the Kingdom? The Scriptures indicate that the living unbelievers will be judged at the end of the tribulation and removed from the earth (see Matt. 13:41–42; 25:41). Yet, they also teach that children will be born to believers during the millennium and that these children will be capable of sin (see Isa. 65:20; Rev 20:7–10). This will not be possible if all believers on earth have been glorified through a posttribulational rapture.
Fourth, the posttribulational paradigm of the church being raptured and then immediately brought back to earth leaves no time for the Bema, i.e., the Judgment Seat of Christ to occur (1 Cor. 3:10–15; 2 Cor. 5:10), nor for the Marriage Supper (Rev. 19:6–10). Thus, it can be concluded that a posttribulational time of the rapture is incongruous with the sheep-goat nation judgment, and, in fact, eliminates two critical end-time events. A pretribulational rapture avoids all of these difficulties.

3. The Epistles Contain No Preparatory Warnings of an Impending Tribulation for Church-Age Believers...
Continues:https://tms.edu/msj/why-a-pretribulational-rapture/
 

DavidTree

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Sure. Tribulation Saints are those unbelievers who come to Christ during the Tribulation period.
YES, there will be people whom God will continue to call right up to the Coming of the Lord.

Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me, and to finish His work. 35Do you not say, ‘There are still four months and then comes the harvest’? Behold, I say to you, lift up your eyes and look at the fields, for they are already white for harvest! 36And he who reaps receives wages, and gathers fruit for eternal life, that both he who sows and he who reaps may rejoice together. 37For in this the saying is true: ‘One sows and another reaps.’ 38I sent you to reap that for which you have not labored; others have labored, and you have entered into their labors.” John 4:34-38

Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

4And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for [a]all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.


When we love and obey the Lord Jesus Christ we believe every word and above all -
we do not add or takeaway from His words.
 

Absolutely

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Jul 23, 2018
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Adding to this that CV5 has truncated the verse--who is he trying to fool here?

Here is the rest of the story:

…38And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and Philip baptized him. 39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord carried Philip away, and the eunuch saw him no more, but went on his way rejoicing. 40But Philip appeared at Azotus and traveled through that region, preaching the gospel in all the towns until he came to Caesarea.…Act 8:38-39
It says enoch did not see death
5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Clearly says no death and was taken.
 

Absolutely

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Jul 23, 2018
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More opposition to plain Bible truth from Laura. Are you here to troll or simply sow the seeds of doubt and confusion? But so that no one listens to Laura's NONSENSE, I will post Scripture to refute the above statement which makes God a liar:
And it came to pass, when the LORD would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal. (2 Kings 2:1)

And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. (2 Kings 2:11)

So the real issue is "What causes people to flatly deny what is in the Bible?"
I had just looked that up and was shaking my head at the " laura version of the bible"
2 And it came to pass, when the Lord would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal.

Amazing.
It is impossible to miss.....but she did
 

Absolutely

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Jul 23, 2018
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Please note that I responded to LUCY and not to YOU.

What strange and nonsensicla comments you all make-I am quoting SCRIPTURE. obviously since Elijah is still alive, evidence by writing the letter to Jehoram and the prophet Obadiah says that God is going to carry him (Elijah) off to where "he knows not"--

You all are the ones that speak so rudely and even call quoted scripture verses BALONEY.
Lol
His verse destroys your position.

You completely sidestepped the matter
 

Absolutely

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We need to pray for these people. I don't know how you get on that track to begin with but when you do........it seems extremely difficult to get back on the right one.

I will never understand how anyone could possibly trampled underfoot all of those promises made to the patriarchs and the nation Israel. I mean it is literally throwing two thirds of the Bible into the trash can.....:oops:
Yep.
 

Absolutely

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12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven


What that is saying is yhat the one who decended (Jesus standing in front of them) would soon ascend BACK TO HEAVEN.

No man has ever done THAT.
 
Aug 5, 2021
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No you've got that all wrong. Daniel's 70th week pertains primarily to Israel (Dan 9:24).
It is the beginning of the beginning of the redemption of a DISOBEDIENT, UNBELIEVING, UNREDEEMED Israel promised in vast quantities of OT (and NT!) passages. Yes some gentiles are redeemed along the way known as tribulation saints. This too is prophesied in so many OT passages.

What about the Church you may ask? Does Daniels 70th week/God's wrath so noted in Revelation pertain to them? NO. Absolutely positively not in the least. The justified made perfectly holy and righteous Church cleansed and redeemed by the blood of the Lamb is not appointed to wrath.

The Church is edited out of the book of Revelation from any and all wrath. The 24 Elders are always and only spectators worshiping commenting and observing God's actions from the heavenly realm.

I think you explain your position well. I agree the church is not appointed to wrath. I used to strongly believe in the pre-trib theory. After reading different arguments over a period of years I came to believe in what could be labeled a partial rapture theory.

Many scholars argue that God's wrath does not begin at the beginning of Daniel's 70th week, and I agree with this. I agree with the position of some theologians who say there is nothing in the Bible that says the gentile church cannot be present during Daniel's 70th week. I think many of the signs the Lord spoke of in Matthew 24:4-8 have been fulfilled. This time of sorrows is not yet the end, but precedes the time of great tribulation. I think the fulfillment of the time of sorrows occurs within Daniel's 70th week and this is happening now. My approximate timeframe for Daniel's 70th week is 2019-2026 with an approximate midpoint of summer/fall 2022.

I don't see "the time of Jacob's trouble" as being synonymous with the seven year 'tribulation.' Brenda Weltner writes in her book A Kingdom of Priests, "There is a seven year timeline that Revelation describes, but not all that time consists of 'tribulation.' War, wrath, and persecution in Israel, will not last seven years, nor does Israel even have seven years left on her timeline." The 3 1/2 year period remains for Israel on her prophetic timeline as described in Rev. 12:6, Rev. 11;12, Rev. 13:5, Rev. 12:14, Dan. 7;25, Dan. 9:27. It is her position that the three and a half year ministry of Jesus Christ fulfilled the first half of the 70th and final 'week' of the prophecy in Daniel 9:27, so only 3 1/2 years remain for Israel.

Israel has made strikes in/around the Damascus area multiple times this year, and it appears to me the fulfillment of Isaiah 17:1 could be fairly close. Isaiah 17:4-6 speaks of the problems Israel will experience. I do think we are fairly near to the time when the forces arrayed against Israel will come against her to gain access to resources. I think we are closer to the the time of Jacob's Trouble at this point than we are to the beginning of Daniel's 70th week. Weltner writes that the U.S. will be overcome with internal problems, and will not be able to come to Israel's aid. The US continues to experience a myriad of problems and in my view they have grown worse this past year.

I certainly feel blessed by the Lord to see these events unfold. I know may of my brothers and sisters feel the same way even though we may look at this time period through different doctrinal lenses.

I see more of a convergence of what God is doing with the gentiles/Israel than a strict separation. My take is the gentile church will be experiencing tribulation (persecution) up until she is removed. I see the "ark doors closing" now so to speak. The remnant church will be glorified and will help the Lord with a final harvest and not long after the woman of Rev. 12 (Israel) will flee into the wilderness. Then the catching away will occur after many turn to the Lord for salvation. The partial rapture theory I hold has a separate harpazo event for the 'overcomers' of the 144,000 of Israel who survive the great tribulation.