How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

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Absolutely

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Jul 23, 2018
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With no one to witness to them, shepherd them or pray for them (church removed) and no Holy Spirit to enpower them from within, I can't see humans having the strength to stand up to the greatest surge of satanic power in human history and overcome it to the point of death.

That isn't the story Revelation tells.
The church is active right through the tribulation period. Her prayers & petitions are going up to the throne room of heaven. Her suffering & outcry is the catalyst for The Lord's vengeance on the prostitute. He is coming to deliver us from tribulation
not take us away before it starts.
They see the foolish virgins left behind.

Roughly half the church As JESUS DECLARES .

They make excellent witnesses.
They get wide awake and repent

"Dirty robes" as we see in relations " innumerable number"
 

cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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How so? Here is the scripture with the list of those 'by faith'--Abel, Enoch, , Noah, Abraham and Sarah
(note it only says Enoch was translated-it does NOT he was translated to heaven, btw),


11 Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. 2 This is what the ancients were commended for.
3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.
4 By faith Abel brought God a better offering than Cain did. By faith he was commended as righteous, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith Abel still speaks, even though he is dead.
5 By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: “He could not be found, because God had taken him away.”[a] For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God. 6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
7 By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that is in keeping with faith.
8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going. 9 By faith he made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise. 10 For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God. 11 And by faith even Sarah, who was past childbearing age, was enabled to bear children because she[b] considered him faithful who had made the promise. 12 And so from this one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore.
13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth. 14 People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. 15 If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.

Also Divine Water Mark tried to say Enoch was somehow a category to himself, however these verses are bookended by Abel and Sarah--then in verse 13 it says "All these people were still living by faith when they died.
Here you go dear.....confirmation of the limited scope of Heb 11:13....

Heb 11:9
By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise"
 

cv5

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With no one to witness to them, shepherd them or pray for them (church removed) and no Holy Spirit to enpower them from within, I can't see humans having the strength to stand up to the greatest surge of satanic power in human history and overcome it to the point of death.

That isn't the story Revelation tells.
The church is active right through the tribulation period. Her prayers & petitions are going up to the throne room of heaven. Her suffering & outcry is the catalyst for The Lord's vengeance on the prostitute. He is coming to deliver us from tribulation
not take us away before it starts.
Lucy........it's perfectly clear that the redemptive plan of God has switched gears starting in chapter 6 of Revelation. Now the, during's Daniel 70th week, Israel comes to the fore.....and is RECOMMISSIONED to the task to which they were originally elected......as preachers and witnesses of the testimony of God to the world.

I am speaking of course to the 144,000 sealed elect Israelite preacher commandos and two witnesses! There is reason to believe that those gentiles who respond to the preaching of these ISRAELITES have a part to play as well.....evidently they have a testimony.

Of course the Church is nowhere to be found during the time of God's wrath, and therefore is no longer preaching during the time of Daniel 70th week. There is no doubt they are seen in heaven as the 24 Elders.

The premillennial pre-tribbers have it right. They always have it right.....:D
 
Aug 20, 2021
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the dead sea scrolls put most of that to rest.

We have Gods word
One only has gods word if one has gods spirit.The dead sea scrolls more veriants not more concise.not saying that its better for say, but the Textus Receptus what make most of the king James version the majority text.
lol

We have Gods word
 

Icedaisey

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Jul 19, 2021
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And those ones left behind after the pretrib rapture Jesus declared in the bible
No, the church is saved from suffering the GT. The nominal christians, those not truly in Christ, are what are left behind. But that's another thread that will never come to an end or one accord.
 

ewq1938

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Oct 18, 2018
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No, the church is saved from suffering the GT.
No, the church is PROMISED to suffers the GT, .

Prophecy that Christian saints would be killed during the Great Tribulation:

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Satan's wrath and him starting the Great Tribulation which is a war against Christians/the church:

Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath , because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed , which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


This war is the great tribulation and it is specifically a war against the remnant of the woman's seed AND those who have the testimony of Jesus Christ. That's the church!




The Christian saints killed during Satan's wrathful Great Tribulation are resurrected:

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God , and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years .

They were killed in the great tribulation. They weren't raptured to heaven before the great tribulation!

The nominal christians, those not truly in Christ, are what are left behind.
No, they will take part in the Apostasia/Apostasy and receive the mark of the beast.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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^ In Revelation 12:17, "the REMNANT of her seed" refers to those of Israel, same "REMNANT" as in the following text:


Micah 5:3 [the one "born" in v.3 being distinct from Jesus' own birth in v.2] -

Berean Study Bible
Therefore Israel will be abandoned until she who is in labor has given birth; then the rest of His brothers will return to the children of Israel.

King James Bible
Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.

New King James Version
Therefore He shall give them up, Until the time that she who is in labor has given birth; Then the remnant of His brethren Shall return to the children of Israel.

NASB 1995
Therefore He will give them up until the time When she who is in labor has borne a child. Then the remainder of His brethren Will return to the sons of Israel.





[in this text, the "woman [/she]" is distinct from the one she "gives birth" to... and the "remnant" is also distinct from both of those--in the same way as in Revelation 12]
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Now the, during's Daniel 70th week, Israel comes to the fore.
Yes.

As I've mentioned in many past posts, everything in Matthew 24 (from v.3 on) is what takes place FOLLOWING our Rapture...

... and certainly we can see that Matthew 24:14 [/26:13] is saying "this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world..." (compare the wording of the rest of the verse to the wording found in Rev7:9--so we see its EFFECTS in vv.9,14);

...not to mention Matt24:45-46 (which vv.42-51 I've pointed out is parallel to Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"... see vv.42-43 compared with the verses I just pointed out: Matt24:45-46 "wise servant... to give them meat in due season... BLESSED is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh SHALL FIND SO DOING");

... as well as in Dan12:1-4 (which is not speaking about a "physical/bodily resurrection from being formerly physically/bodily dead"), where it speaks of what Israel will go on TO DO (at least, the "WISE" among them will [vv.1-4,10]): "they that turn many to righteousness" (note Dan12's context is the SECOND HALF of the "7yr period"... per vv.1,6-7,11,etc...);

... there are many other passages as well (Matt25:40,45, for example, calls them "the least of these My brethren"... who are not the ones in this context BEING "judged / separated" [Sheep and goats OF THE NATIONS (PLURAL)]);






The problem comes in when we willy-nilly apply all passages to US [/the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY]... which is simply usurping the future [believing / FAITH-ful] REMNANT of Israel of THEIR role... and reward
 

TheDivineWatermark

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No, the church is saved from suffering the GT. The nominal christians, those not truly in Christ, are what are left behind.
Correct. (y)

(and I would say the Church which is His body is kept out of the ENTIRE 7-yr period, not merely the "GT / GREAT Tribulation" which is only the second HALF of it, technically = ) )


But yes, abs' "partial-rapture theory" does not hold up under biblical scrutiny.

The ENTIRE "ONE BODY" will go in the Rapture (not "bits and pieces" of it, lol) ;)... RIGHT!
 
Nov 17, 2017
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Correct. (y)

(and I would say the Church which is His body is kept out of the ENTIRE 7-yr period, not merely the "GT / GREAT Tribulation" which is only the second HALF of it, technically = ) )
I always understood that the GT was for the Jews..Its all about God and His Israel.....
And those who are His, who did not receive the oracles, are grafted in....
We are to lead the Jews to Christ during this time......Hence messianic Jews...

No?:)
God Bless !
 

Icedaisey

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Jul 19, 2021
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Correct. (y)

(and I would say the Church which is His body is kept out of the ENTIRE 7-yr period, not merely the "GT / GREAT Tribulation" which is only the second HALF of it, technically = ) )


But yes, abs' "partial-rapture theory" does not hold up under biblical scrutiny.

The ENTIRE "ONE BODY" will go in the Rapture (not "bits and pieces" of it, lol) ;)... RIGHT!
You gotta wonder how any Christian would think the GT was created by God so his church could suffer through it.
Seriously.
What?

But some people need to believe faith is pain.
I knew a guy who three days prior to Easter would flagellate himself as he walked sun wise, clockwise, around his church. He was so grateful for Jesus' suffering that he wanted to truly be, "Christ like".
Good thing he married an RN. A very patient and empathetic RN. With lots of gauze, medical tape, and alcohol. :LOL:
 

ewq1938

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Oct 18, 2018
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You gotta wonder how any Christian would think the GT was created by God so his church could suffer through it.
satan creates the great tribulation, not God. If you can't get that right, how do you think you can get the timing of the rapture right?
 

cv5

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satan creates the great tribulation, not God. If you can't get that right, how do you think you can get the timing of the rapture right?
No you've got that all wrong. The fact that the 70th week is Gods wrath is unequivocally stated 10 times in the book of Revelation. And once it is called the "wrath of the Lamb."

One time it is stated that "the devil is come down to you, having great wrath". This is purely reactionary as a result of Gods wrath and judgment against him.
 

DavidTree

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Aug 2, 2021
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p
No you've got that all wrong. The fact that the 70th week is Gods wrath is unequivocally stated 10 times in the book of Revelation. And once it is called the "wrath of the Lamb."

One time it is stated that "the devil is come down to you, having great wrath". This is purely reactionary as a result of Gods wrath and judgment against him.
Your assessment is self-defeating.

For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him. 1 Thessalonians 5:9
 

ewq1938

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No you've got that all wrong. The fact that the 70th week is Gods wrath is unequivocally stated 10 times in the book of Revelation. And once it is called the "wrath of the Lamb."

One time it is stated that "the devil is come down to you, having great wrath". This is purely reactionary as a result of Gods wrath and judgment against him.

Not once is the great tribulation said to be God's wrath. It is told to us that it is satan's wrath and is a war against Christians, Rev 12. Scripture says God's wrath begins at the 7th trump.

Again, if you can't get that part right, then you have no hopes of getting anything else correct.
 

Nehemiah6

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Not once is the great tribulation said to be God's wrath.
What exactly do you think the Great Tribulation is? Does it have any relationship to the seven trumpet judgments of God's wrath? And if not what is it?

And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth. (Rev 16:1).

According to this statement, ALL the trumpet judgments announced by these seven angels are God's wrath, and since they extend right throughout the 7 years of Daniel's 70th week, you have no excuse for making such remarks as above. Seems like you would love to have textbook statements about Bible truth. And I already told you that it does not work that way.
 

ewq1938

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Oct 18, 2018
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What exactly do you think the Great Tribulation is? Does it have any relationship to the seven trumpet judgments of God's wrath? And if not what is it?
The great tribulation is the war against Christians:

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

That war is found in Rev 13, which is the great tribulation. It is commonly believed to be the duration of 6th trump.

And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth. (Rev 16:1).

According to this statement, ALL the trumpet judgments announced by these seven angels are God's wrath
You didn't read that before posting? That speaks of vials not trumpets. It's errors like this that cause confusion in one's doctrine.

The wrath of God is found in the vials. The vials only pour once the 7th trump has sounded:


Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.


, and since they extend right throughout the 7 years of Daniel's 70th week, you have no excuse for making such remarks as above. Seems like you would love to have textbook statements about Bible truth. And I already told you that it does not work that way.
Only one of us is presenting bible truth and it isn't you brother. You don't know what great tribulation is. You don't know when wrath of God happens and you don't even know the difference between vials and trumps yet you dare say to me, "you have no excuse for making such remarks as above". You don't know what you are talking and you do not understand scripture well enough to teach it.
 

SaltwaterGirl

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You gotta wonder how any Christian would think the GT was created by God so his church could suffer through it.
Seriously.
What?
Hi, Ice . . . Okay, so as a believer in a post-tribulation Second Coming, I agree with others that we are not doomed to suffer God's wrath, as 1 Thessalonians 5:9 clearly states. I disagree, however, with some who believe the "7 bowls" represent God's vengeance. I think some individuals believe this because they are attempting to establish a point by taking passages out of context.

But I can see why this assumption is made. Let’s look at Revelation 16:1.

Revelation 16:1

The Seven Bowls
16 Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, “Go and pour out the bowls of the wrath of God on the earth.”

Now, if you check the context of that verse, you will not find that it says these bowls are during Daniels 70th week, the last half of which Jesus called the great tribulation. I personally do not believe that the tribulation is God's wrath at all. If it is wrath, it is the wrath of evil men, demons, the beast, etc., on the elect of God.

After the great tribulation, Jesus returns with His army, and THEN you will see God's wrath, but it’s not during the great tribulation.