How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

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ewq1938

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Oct 18, 2018
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And no, Rapture is just a BAD translation.

No, it is a correct translation/understanding as rapture and harpazo have same definitions and are related in origin.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up HARPAZO/RAPTURE together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

When this verse was translated into Latin from Greek, the Greek word "harpazo" was replaced by the the Latin verb "rapio" meaning "to catch up" or "take away" (the Latin noun "raptus" "a carrying off"). The Latin word “rapiemur” is the word St. Jerome used for “caught up” when he translated 1 Thess 4:17 in the Latin Vulgate Bible. In Middle French "rapiemur" is "rapture" meaning "to carry away" which is the same meaning as Rapture in English. So while the English word RAPTURE is not in scripture the Greek word HARPAZO is in scripture and it is the origin of the word rapture. So, yes, a rapture is very biblical. A pre-trib rapture is not biblical because Paul places the rapture after the tribulation and second coming and after the resurrection of the dead. The rapture then will come after the great tribulation has ended known as "post-trib".
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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One sentence wrongly translated can never make an entire doctrine.

Take the cross! It's all over the NT. There are hundreds of verses that mention it, including Jesus going to the cross. A great topic to make a doctrine out of.

But Rapture? A wrongly transliterated word by Jerome in the 4th century Latin Vulgate! Meaning the Catholic Bible. And Jerome didn't speak Koine Greek well, because it had changed into another, later Greek!

Rapture literally never appears in Koine Greek, the language the NT was written in, nor in any other Bible.

And it is not backed up anywhere. Even if Rapture did appear, properly translated from Greek, it's only ONE verse! It is exegetically and hermeneutically unsound to ever make a doctrine out of one verse. Let alone an entire eschatology! Yet so many people are totally deluded as to what this verse means, and tricked into believing this entire false construct of end times.
Misapprehension of Peter's sermon in Acts 2 is the reason for untold heresies. Find out what the "last days" are....and when. And be careful to discriminate between Peter and when Paul uses that same term (twice)....as he applies it to the Church.

The "Age of Grace" the Church Age was HIDDEN in the OT....absolutely no doubt about it.

Find out where you went wrong. MacArthur is on point in this sermon and his exegesis is superb...

Great message from http://www.gty.org/library/sermons-library/1705
 

Icedaisey

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Jul 19, 2021
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satan creates the great tribulation, not God. If you can't get that right, how do you think you can get the timing of the rapture right?
Easy. First? I don't abrogate God's word and claim Satan brings the GT.

Satan didn't cause Jericho to fall after saving Rahab from his wrath upon that city.

Satan didn't save Noah, or Lot, before bringing the deluge upon the world, or destroying Sodom and Gomorrah, respectively. God did

And prior to that he saved whom he willed.

Now at the end of days scriptures in the Book of Revelation you see Satan? Bringing the GT on the world after God's church are taken out of its way?
As happened with Noah and Lot centuries prior.

All you need do to support your belief is post the scripture that sustains your point about Satan and it being he who brings the Tribulation and then the Great Tribulation.

But I suspect if those words were there in Revelation you'd have pasted them by now.
 

ewq1938

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Oct 18, 2018
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Easy. First? I don't abrogate God's word and claim Satan brings the GT.
At least I can prove my position. You can't prove yours.

Satan's wrath and him starting the Great Tribulation:

Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath , because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed , which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


The saints killed during Satan's wrathful Great Tribulation:

Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them : and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.





Now at the end of days scriptures in the Book of Revelation you see Satan? Bringing the GT on the world after God's church are taken out of its way?
The church is raptured AFTER the great tribulation has ended.

All you need do to support your belief is post the scripture that sustains your point about Satan and it being he who brings the Tribulation and then the Great Tribulation.

But I suspect if those words were there in Revelation you'd have pasted them by now.

I already posted them and posted again in this post so you can not read them a second time.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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And no, Rapture is just a BAD translation. The fact that no other Bible dares to translate harpazo as Rapture, proves my point.
You don't have a point. Around 400 AD Jerome translated "caught up together" in Latin as rapiemur (see the Latin Vulgate): deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur cum illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic semper cum Domino erimus (then we which are alive who remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so always with the Lord we will be)

The word Rapture has been derived from this Latin word (just like many English words are derived from Latin or Greek). The catching up or snatching up of the saints to Heaven supernaturally was already prefigured in the "translation" of Enoch (Heb 11:5). So if you don't like the word "rapture" go with "translation". And if you don't like either, then you do have a very serious problem,.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
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A pre-tribulation Rapture is the ONLY biblical Rapture.

No, the bible offers zero support for that man made doctrine. Scripture says the rapture is after the end of GT.

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.(second coming reference)
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord (second coming reference) shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven (second coming reference) with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (the resurrection of the dead in Christ)
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (the rapture)

The resurrection only happens at the second coming and the second coming can only happen after the trib has ended, and since the verses tell us the rapture happens AFTER the resurrection and second coming means these verses decisively prove the rapture is post-trib not pre-trib.

It's that simple.

Christ also spoke of the rapture but used the wording of saints being gathered together, and no surprise, placed it after the end of the Great Tribulation.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation (great tribulation has ended) of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming (second coming reference) in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect (*another way to speak of the Rapture) from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

*(also see 2nd Thessalonians 2:1 for the same language regarding the Rapture)

Timing of the gathering/rapturing is exactly the same in these two passages. In both we have saved Christians being moved from one place to another and in both that happens after the tribulation has ended and when the second coming has commenced.


A rapture before the second coming and before the resurrection is scripturally impossible and the second coming cannot happen until the tribulation has ended, Mat 24:29-30.
 
Aug 2, 2021
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A pre-tribulation Rapture is the ONLY biblical Rapture. All other interpretations are nonsensical. So take some time to read and study this article (for all those who despise the pre-tribulation Rapture):

When Was the Pre-Tribulation Rapture First Taught?
https://www.wayoflife.org/reports/when_was_the_pre_tribulation_rapture_taught.html
Pre-trib rapture cannot be found anywhere in Scripture - so anyone who teaches it does so from their own accord.

Best to follow the teachings of Christ and the Apostles.

Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death,c so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.

By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep.
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.
After that
, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

There will never be a rapture before the Resurrection. To say otherwise is error and against the word of the Lord.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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I always wonder how God treats each of us different. By that I mean hearing the same questions over and over by billions yet answers it as if that was the first time He heard it. Its this "No one taught a pre-trib rapture until John Darby, and Anglican preacher, in the mid 1800s." Did we read it? LaHayes, Robert Norton, Margaret Macdonald? 1830? All this and more if we are focusing on that time period.

It was much harder when I searched and found that hymn writer that wrote scrolls this is, lol ON LINE where they posted about this hymn writer (showed the scrolls) talking about Jesus coming back getting the church before the great tribulation. Then after some time watching TBN Grant Jeffery.. oh i JUST lol found him again died in 2012 I think. I was always searching because of posts like this looking for him under Greg Geoffery Lol I don't know I forgot his name. But one night he was talking about that SAME hymn writer and on TBN showed that scroll where you could see everything that was written. Then some time later showed even more scrolls from others who talked about "Caught up" Rapture. That Hymn writer was 300-400ad.

You know this has never made be feel better about knowing this why? Its proves nothing.. nothing more then someone like you me that love the lord believed Jesus coming before the great tribulation. So why do some not search? I would have to speculate I think because it will take days weeks to find all this or scared.. yeah I don't know. Then they dont just sharing what they find its telling you what they personally believe. This is just a taste of what I found.. I just do not debate.. post everything I know any more. What I found. Knowing all this .. you can still believe post trib. This here is NOT the word of God.
Ok
I can see where you are coming from.

Why you say what you say.

Like i told you earlier " condemnation prior to investigation"


You do not investigate.
 
Aug 2, 2021
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At least I can prove my position. You can't prove yours.

Satan's wrath and him starting the Great Tribulation:

Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath , because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed , which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


The saints killed during Satan's wrathful Great Tribulation:

Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them : and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.







The church is raptured AFTER the great tribulation has ended.




I already posted them and posted again in this post so you can not read them a second time.
Maybe you read it wrong, let me check......Yes Brother, the Scipture does tell us Satan has great wrath - go figure.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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No, the bible offers zero support for that man made doctrine. Scripture says the rapture is after the end of GT.

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.(second coming reference)
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord (second coming reference) shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven (second coming reference) with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (the resurrection of the dead in Christ)
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (the rapture)

The resurrection only happens at the second coming and the second coming can only happen after the trib has ended, and since the verses tell us the rapture happens AFTER the resurrection and second coming means these verses decisively prove the rapture is post-trib not pre-trib.

It's that simple.

Christ also spoke of the rapture but used the wording of saints being gathered together, and no surprise, placed it after the end of the Great Tribulation.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation (great tribulation has ended) of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming (second coming reference) in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect (*another way to speak of the Rapture) from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

*(also see 2nd Thessalonians 2:1 for the same language regarding the Rapture)

Timing of the gathering/rapturing is exactly the same in these two passages. In both we have saved Christians being moved from one place to another and in both that happens after the tribulation has ended and when the second coming has commenced.


A rapture before the second coming and before the resurrection is scripturally impossible and the second coming cannot happen until the tribulation has ended, Mat 24:29-30.
Very poorly thought out via omissions.

The ONLY way any of that reframing you did gets traction (in your circles, no bible hound would fall for it) is via omissions and reframing verses.
 
Aug 2, 2021
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No, the bible offers zero support for that man made doctrine. Scripture says the rapture is after the end of GT.

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.(second coming reference)
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord (second coming reference) shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven (second coming reference) with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (the resurrection of the dead in Christ)
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (the rapture)

The resurrection only happens at the second coming and the second coming can only happen after the trib has ended, and since the verses tell us the rapture happens AFTER the resurrection and second coming means these verses decisively prove the rapture is post-trib not pre-trib.

It's that simple.

Christ also spoke of the rapture but used the wording of saints being gathered together, and no surprise, placed it after the end of the Great Tribulation.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation (great tribulation has ended) of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming (second coming reference) in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect (*another way to speak of the Rapture) from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

*(also see 2nd Thessalonians 2:1 for the same language regarding the Rapture)

Timing of the gathering/rapturing is exactly the same in these two passages. In both we have saved Christians being moved from one place to another and in both that happens after the tribulation has ended and when the second coming has commenced.


A rapture before the second coming and before the resurrection is scripturally impossible and the second coming cannot happen until the tribulation has ended, Mat 24:29-30.
This sounds way too Biblical for me to believe............
 
Jul 23, 2018
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No, the bible offers zero support for that man made doctrine. Scripture says the rapture is after the end of GT.

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.(second coming reference)
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord (second coming reference) shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven (second coming reference) with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (the resurrection of the dead in Christ)
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (the rapture)

The resurrection only happens at the second coming and the second coming can only happen after the trib has ended, and since the verses tell us the rapture happens AFTER the resurrection and second coming means these verses decisively prove the rapture is post-trib not pre-trib.

It's that simple.

Christ also spoke of the rapture but used the wording of saints being gathered together, and no surprise, placed it after the end of the Great Tribulation.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation (great tribulation has ended) of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming (second coming reference) in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect (*another way to speak of the Rapture) from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

*(also see 2nd Thessalonians 2:1 for the same language regarding the Rapture)

Timing of the gathering/rapturing is exactly the same in these two passages. In both we have saved Christians being moved from one place to another and in both that happens after the tribulation has ended and when the second coming has commenced.


A rapture before the second coming and before the resurrection is scripturally impossible and the second coming cannot happen until the tribulation has ended, Mat 24:29-30.
"""A rapture before the second coming and before the resurrection is scripturally impossible and the second coming cannot happen until the tribulation has ended, Mat 24:"""

Rev 14 not only blows that completely away ( you have just made the dead in christ rise AFTER the living of rev 14 and are oblivious to it) but also can not reconcile "Like manner" in acts one.

....or any of our pretrib verses

That is why they will never be addressed.
Postrib rapture was concieved by men in a dark time with a destroyed israel.
No prophetic standing.

Most of them believed they were in the trib.
 
Aug 2, 2021
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"""A rapture before the second coming and before the resurrection is scripturally impossible and the second coming cannot happen until the tribulation has ended, Mat 24:"""

Rev 14 not only blows that completely away ( you have just made the dead in christ rise AFTER the living of rev 14 and are oblivious to it) but also can not reconcile "Like manner" in acts one.

....or any of our pretrib verses

That is why they will never be addressed.
Postrib rapture was concieved by men in a dark time with a destroyed israel.
No prophetic standing.

Most of them believed they were in the trib.
How do you see Revelation ch14 denying the Lord and the Apostles words???
 
Jul 23, 2018
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The postrib rapture doctrine has a very troubled beginning.

We can trace it back to men that were in tribulation themselves and did not have a prophetic anchor.
The reason being that Israel had been sacked, destroyed ,and the Hebrew people scattered. So that backdrop gave them little to go on concerning prophecy.
In a sense they were doing the best they could with the information that they had.
And that dynamic worked against them because they begin to frame the Bible erroneously in the context of what their eyes were seeing. Of course we are not in that trap that they found themselves in .
It is clear Israel became a nation around 1947 and that dynamic reset the prophetic clock
 
Aug 2, 2021
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You know, i think you nailed it!
The Apostle John fits that description of the men you just put forth.

"I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation.........."

And the Big Guy that told John what to write said this:
“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,” and, “What you see, write in a book................."

BOY OH BOY, the next thing you know - we are reading a Book called 'the Apocalypse'

All that error from just One Book from a KING who is Hot with wrath for a Dragon and those who follow the Dragon.

One Good point out of the Book is that whoever resists the Dragon with Lamb's Blood and True Words are ushered in to this Magnificent Kingdom and will never be subject to Death again - FOREVER ALIVE.

Read All About It - Get Your Paper Here - KING kills Dragon after Dragon goes on bloody rampage!!!
 
Aug 2, 2021
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The postrib rapture doctrine has a very troubled beginning.

We can trace it back to men that were in tribulation themselves and did not have a prophetic anchor.
The reason being that Israel had been sacked, destroyed ,and the Hebrew people scattered. So that backdrop gave them little to go on concerning prophecy.
In a sense they were doing the best they could with the information that they had.
And that dynamic worked against them because they begin to frame the Bible erroneously in the context of what their eyes were seeing. Of course we are not in that trap that they found themselves in .
It is clear Israel became a nation around 1947 and that dynamic reset the prophetic clock
You know, i think you nailed it!
The Apostle John fits that description of the men you just put forth.

"I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation.........."

And the Big Guy that told John what to write said this:
“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,” and, “What you see, write in a book................."

BOY OH BOY, the next thing you know - we are reading a Book called 'the Apocalypse'

All that error from just One Book from a KING who is Hot with wrath for a Dragon and those who follow the Dragon.

One Good point out of the Book is that whoever resists the Dragon with Lamb's Blood and True Words are ushered in to this Magnificent Kingdom and will never be subject to Death again - FOREVER ALIVE.

Read All About It - Get Your Paper Here - KING kills Dragon after Dragon goes on bloody rampage!!!