How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

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Nehemiah6

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Jul 18, 2017
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According to Scripture, the Physical Atmosphere and the Earth are connected as ONE physical biological environment that cannot be separated from each other...
You know as well as I do that the atmosphere is DISTINCT from the earth. Even the composition of the air is distinct from the composition of soil. So there is no need to try and avoid the clear separation between the earth and its atmosphere in order to support your false ideas. If Christ comes "in the air" He does not come upon the earth. Just as an airplane is not on earth when it is flying in the air.

COMPOSITION OF AIR IN THE ATMOSPHERE

1630877980999.png
 
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Here's the thing...

The word "knows" in this text, is not saying "no one CAN EVER know," nor is it saying "no one WILL EVER know," or anything like that.

"Know" is in the "PERFECT indicative" here... which the "PERFECT TENSE" is defined as "action completed at a specific point OF TIME IN PAST, with RESULTS continuing INTO THE PRESENT. In *CERTAIN* contexts, the RESULTS are PERMANENT."

This means that (in some contexts) it can be the case that "FURTHER INFORMATION" has been supplied that can CHANGE THAT STATUS.

After Jesus ascended, He then "KNEW" and He LATER supplied "FURTHER INFORMATION" (on THAT Subject) in "[The] Revelation" written some SIXTY-plus YEARS AFTER His resurrection / ascension / exaltation in 33ad (Revelation written about "95ad")

And this is the exact thing we see written in the FIRST VERSE of Revelation (1:1):

[in 95ad] "The Revelation of Jesus Christ WHICH GOD GAVE UNTO HIM [/unto Jesus] TO SHEW UNTO His servants things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]..."

...and the rest of that Book supplies NUMEROUS time-stamps and timing indicators that reveal the timing issues OF THAT VERY SUBJECT (the Subject of Matt24:36 and parallel passages all saying the same: "But of that day and hour KNOWETH [PERFECT indicative] no man..." [not even Jesus, at the time spoken (BEFORE His death and resurrection and ascension/exaltation)]--But now He knows perfectly and He LATER [in 95ad] supplied that "FURTHER INFORMATION" in the "Revelation")

It is not accurate to say that the "of that day and hour no one WILL EVER *KNOW*"
lol x1000 brother - WE ALL KNOW THIS - It is called a 'no brainer'

Yet inspite of our Lord saying "No one knows the Day or Hour" - you add to and take away from Scripture to make fit a falsehood.

We have a saying around here, it goes like this: 'YOUR BUSTED'

You said:
EXHIBIT A: "Thus, Acts 1:9-11 INDEED is speaking of His Second Coming to the earth at Rev19"
EXHIBIT B: "where I've said in past posts, that at the time of His Second Coming to the earth (Matt24:29-31 "Son of man coming"; and in parallel with Isa27:9,12-13's "GREAT trumpet"), there will exist on the earth BOTH "believers" AND "unbelievers"; the "believers" existing on the earth during the Trib years are those who will have come to faith FOLLOWING "our Rapture" (and ALL of Matt24:3-end of chpt 25 is speaking of what takes place FOLLOWING "our Rapture");" Post #175
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


The Atmosphere, the Earth, the Waters are ONE Contained UNIT of the Physical Creation. Genesis 1: 6-11
When He comes on the Clouds - His Second Coming has ARRIVED and it is the BEGINNING of many things which will take place.
Beginning with the FIRST Resurrection and After that - the Rapture = 1 Thessalonians 4: 13-18

Jesus replied, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by His own authority.
But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

9 After He had said this, they watched as He was taken up, and a cloud hid Him from their sight.
10 They were looking intently into the sky as He was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them.
11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven.”

At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.
And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. -v36

Jesus replied, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by His own authority. -v7

Matthew 24:36 and Acts 1:7 are in AGREEMENT - No pre-fib rapture - The only one disagreeing with Scripture is you.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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First things FIRST - The FIRST Resurrection FIRST - After that we who are alive and remain are caught up to meet the Lord in the air.
Yes. Scripture cannot lie. And the main harvest of the First Resurrection -- as already explained -- is at the same time as the Rapture. The time difference is in nanoseconds.

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (1 Cor 15:52)

In modern parlance, "the twinkling of an eye" is what would be called "nanoseconds" or a fraction of a second. Resurrection = "the dead shall be raised". Rapture = "we shall be changed". How many times does all this have to be explained before it registers?

BTW, the "First Resurrection" or the resurrection of the just, occurs in three phases, just like a Hebrew harvest (see 1 Cor 15):

The First Fruits = the resurrection of Christ
The Main Harvest = the resurrection of the Church at the Rapture
The Gleanings = the resurrection of the Tribulation saints
 
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You know as well as I do that the atmosphere is DISTINCT from the earth. Even the composition of the air is distinct from the composition of soil. So there is no need to try and avoid the clear separation between the earth and its atmosphere in order to support your false ideas. If Christ comes "in the air" He does not come upon the earth. Just as an airplane is not on earth when it is flying in the air.

COMPOSITION OF AIR IN THE ATMOSPHERE

View attachment 230792

Thank You again for another chart/graph

The Water and the Earth and the Atmosphere are ONE Unit -
ALL Three were Created on the SAME DAY - the 3rd Day
They operate as 'Echad' a United One and they MUST or no life could be sustained 'on' earth.

Please read Genesis chapter 1: 6-12 and Matt 2
Yes. Scripture cannot lie. And the main harvest of the First Resurrection -- as already explained -- is at the same time as the Rapture. The time difference is in nanoseconds.

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (1 Cor 15:52)

In modern parlance, "the twinkling of an eye" is what would be called "nanoseconds" or a fraction of a second. Resurrection = "the dead shall be raised". Rapture = "we shall be changed". How many times does all this have to be explained before it registers?

BTW, the "First Resurrection" or the resurrection of the just, occurs in three phases, just like a Hebrew harvest (see 1 Cor 15):

The First Fruits = the resurrection of Christ
The Main Harvest = the resurrection of the Church at the Rapture
The Gleanings = the resurrection of the Tribulation saints
YES, i love 1 Cor 15:52 and i remember when i first read that and looked it up in Strong's and realized how this is a split second
rapid transformation.
 
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You know as well as I do that the atmosphere is DISTINCT from the earth. Even the composition of the air is distinct from the composition of soil. So there is no need to try and avoid the clear separation between the earth and its atmosphere in order to support your false ideas. If Christ comes "in the air" He does not come upon the earth. Just as an airplane is not on earth when it is flying in the air.

COMPOSITION OF AIR IN THE ATMOSPHERE

View attachment 230792

Thank You again for another chart/graph

The Water and the Earth and the Atmosphere are ONE Unit consisting of Three parts.
ALL Three were Created on the SAME DAY - the 3rd Day
They operate as 'Echad' a United One and they MUST or no life could be sustained 'on' earth.

Please read Genesis chapter 1: 6-12
 

GaryA

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Ok.

What I mean is like Mark writing his book using Greek but using 'kai' like 'va' (a is a shwa here) in Hebrew, using 'and' like it is used in Hebrew.
I am going to suggest that - back then - they were "much more very highly likely" to have stayed within the 'proper' construct of whatever language they were writing or speaking - especially writing.

Just my 2 cents...
 
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Yes. Scripture cannot lie. And the main harvest of the First Resurrection -- as already explained -- is at the same time as the Rapture. The time difference is in nanoseconds.

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (1 Cor 15:52)

In modern parlance, "the twinkling of an eye" is what would be called "nanoseconds" or a fraction of a second. Resurrection = "the dead shall be raised". Rapture = "we shall be changed". How many times does all this have to be explained before it registers?

BTW, the "First Resurrection" or the resurrection of the just, occurs in three phases, just like a Hebrew harvest (see 1 Cor 15):

The First Fruits = the resurrection of Christ
The Main Harvest = the resurrection of the Church at the Rapture
i gave you a 'WINNER' for your POST for 1 Corinthians 15

HOWEVER- You ended with an error = "The Gleanings = the resurrection of the Tribulation saints"

My dear Brother in our Family of Christ.............There are ONLY TWO RESURRECTIONS = The FIRST and the Second.

There are only Two Comings of Christ - First as the Servant and Second as the King of kings

PLEASE Brother - 'Do not add to and take away from Scripture' - did you not read Revelation 22: 18-19
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
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The early church went through persecution, why should anyone believe God will not allow us not to go through that too.

Rev 7
13 Then one of the elders addressed me, saying, “Who are these, clothed in white robes, and whence have they come?” 14 I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


Revelation 6:9
New International Version
When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained.
That's the question isn't it?

Now all those who insist the church will suffer the Great Tribulation have to do is prove exactly that with the scripture that says exactly that.
 
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BTW, the "First Resurrection" or the resurrection of the just, occurs in three phases, just like a Hebrew harvest (see 1 Cor 15):

The First Fruits = the resurrection of Christ
The Main Harvest = the resurrection of the Church at the Rapture
The Gleanings = the resurrection of the Tribulation saints[/QUOTE]

HOWEVER- You ended with an error = "The Gleanings = the resurrection of the Tribulation saints"

My dear Brother in our Family of Christ.............There are ONLY TWO RESURRECTIONS = The FIRST and the Second.

There are only Two Comings of Christ - First as the Servant and Second as the King of kings

PLEASE Brother - 'Do not add to and take away from Scripture' - did you not read Revelation 22: 18-19
 

GaryA

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That's the question isn't it?

Now all those who insist the church will suffer the Great Tribulation have to do is prove exactly that with the scripture that says exactly that.
No, the question is whether or not you (whoever) is willing to make a proper study of the scriptures with a proper attitude and frame of mind - without making unscriptural assumptions that cause you to wrap the entire study around them.

You know that there is no statement in the Bible that says:

"The church will suffer the Great Tribulation."

(in the way you suggest)

However, the information is there that shows us the what, who, how, and why of the 'Great Tribulation'.

And, one must be willing to accept the truth of what they find before they find it!

If truth is not the most important thing - then, don't bother - because, Satan has many ways to steer you away from the truth.

Unless you maintain a vigilance to the discernment of truth, you will not find it.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
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You keep raising up this straw man of two returns of Christ when it has already been explained that there is only one Second Coming of Christ to earth. You can call it a "return" if you wish. But Christ does NOT return to earth at the Resurrection/Rapture. He does come for His saints, whether you wish to believe that or not.

It's not a strawman because Jesus coming anywhere near the Earth is still a coming to the Earth. In his first coming, birth, he didn't touch ground for some time being a baby that would be normal. In his second coming, he also does not touch ground for some time as he fights the beast and armies in air.

So, there is only one more time leaves heaven and comes to Earth in air and that's the same time resurrection and rapture take place. It is unscriptural to separate the second coming and rapture.
 

ewq1938

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"Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?” - Revelation 6:15-17

Clearly, the wrath of God is early on, right there in Revelation 6. This is not "Satan's wrath."
Those events happen AFTER end of treat tribulation. Those events are 7th trump events told from perspective of unsaved. It's not "early on" but simply telling us what's coming in the future.

God's wrath does not take place until 7th trump:

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Here it clearly states that God's wrath has come after the 7th trump sounds. Clearly God's wrath hadn't been coming for a long time before this or else the statement would be meaningless.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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It's not a strawman because Jesus coming anywhere near the Earth is still a coming to the Earth.
Only if you wish to fool yourself (and others).

According to NASA, the earth's atmosphere extends to 400 kilometers above the surface of the earth. It includes the troposphere, stratosphere, mesosphere, and thermosphere. So if Christ will be even 200 km above the surface (which would be above the aurora borealis), that is certainly not a coming to the earth!
 
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Only if you wish to fool yourself (and others).

According to NASA, the earth's atmosphere extends to 400 kilometers above the surface of the earth. It includes the troposphere, stratosphere, mesosphere, and thermosphere. So if Christ will be even 200 km above the surface (which would be above the aurora borealis), that is certainly not a coming to the earth!
You are my favorite Brother named Nehemiah6

Dear Brother, your statement here is a clear 'Strawman' argument.
Scripture dear brother - SCRIPTURE only applies.

And God said, “Let there be an expanse between the waters, to separate the waters from the waters.” So God made the expanse and separated the waters beneath it from the waters above. And it was so. God called the expanse “sky.”
And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

And God said, “Let the waters under the sky be gathered into one place, so that the dry land may appear.” And it was so.
God called the dry land “earth,” and the gathering of waters He called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.
Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth vegetation: seed-bearing plants and fruit trees, each bearing fruit with seed according to its kind.” And it was so. The earth produced vegetation: seed-bearing plants according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day. GENESIS 1: 6-13

The Gospels, the Apostles Letters to the Bride of Christ/His Church and Revelation ONLY are for us His Children.
NASA is not included in Scripture and has NO SAY and NO AUTHORITY over His Creation and over Scripture.

So, you have me lol x10 here - thank you for that - now back to His WORD.

Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar. Proverbs 30: 5-6
 
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Only if you wish to fool yourself (and others).

According to NASA, the earth's atmosphere extends to 400 kilometers above the surface of the earth. It includes the troposphere, stratosphere, mesosphere, and thermosphere. So if Christ will be even 200 km above the surface (which would be above the aurora borealis), that is certainly not a coming to the earth!
Hey my FRIEND Nehemiah6 - this is SCRIPTURE my Brother

After He had said this, they watched as He was taken up, and a cloud hid Him from their sight.
They were looking intently into the sky as He was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them.
“Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven.”
Acts 1: 9-11


At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.
Matt 24:30
 

GaryA

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Aug 10, 2019
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It's not a strawman because Jesus coming anywhere near the Earth is still a coming to the Earth.
Only if you wish to fool yourself (and others).

According to NASA, the earth's atmosphere extends to 400 kilometers above the surface of the earth. It includes the troposphere, stratosphere, mesosphere, and thermosphere. So if Christ will be even 200 km above the surface (which would be above the aurora borealis), that is certainly not a coming to the earth!
It is in the sense of "came for a visit"; albeit, not "feet touched the ground"...

What matters is that it is a 'coming'.
 
P

planitsoon

Guest
Pre-trib, mid-trib, post trib... Pfff. We know from history that the tribulation of Matthew 24 happened. A proud and standing archeological reminder of this, is the Arch of Titus in Rome today, that shows the Romans carrying off the Menorah and other temple loot and it's all chisled out inside the Arch. It says clearly that it all applied to Jesus direct audience since He said that all those would happen before "this generation" would pass (anyone claiming that "this generation" means "that generation" must also apply all the other instances where this term appears the same way, including Luke 17:25 that says that Jesus must be rejected and suffer much by this generation (us today). We all know is not going to happen because He died ones and for all. It applied to the Jews also because Jesus said to pray that the event woud not happen on a Sabbath as they would have not been able to flee. it was clealry local as Jesus said to flee to the mountains of Judea not... any mountain of your choosing. If we wanna go that liberal we might as well change the New Jerusalem to the New New York. It is known that when Cestius withdrew for three days the Christians who remembered Jesus words, fled to Pella in Perea in the mountains of Judea. We also know from historic writers like Josephus and Tacitus that there were 1200 false prophets who arose over that time period just as Jesus foretold. I haven't heard of any lately let alone many in our time :) . Then we know about the nine great earthquakes; why the pestilence happened and of the many wars. The opening of the Eastern gate was also recorded as it opened all up by itself and the Jews were mortified that God had left them desolate to the enemy. It took 20 men to close it again. We know that in 66AD Jesus and a huge army of fiery horses with soldiers were seen in the skies ny many which was a prewarning of Jesus judgement on that generation of Jews according to matthew 23:35 where he said that all the blood from righteous Abel to Zacharia w. He came in the clouds to judge them (Isaiah 19:1 talks about God coming on a cloud against Egypt and them trembling in fear) Coming on the clouds and His coming are two different events. That's why the high priest got so angry as Jesus not only said that He was God but also that He would come back to judge them and yes, those that saw Him and had pierced Him, Rev.1:7 ("ge" means land not earth which has the root word cosmos). We also now that it was Turnius Rufus who ploughed the temple fields after every stone was taken away and the gold chissled off. In the museum of Roe there is a beam that was ones above the entrance of the Coloseum reading. This Coloseum was build with te gold from the war on the Jews". We know that the war lasted 42 months and that holy city with temple was trodden under foot by the gentiles. Futurim started with Jezuit Fransico Ribera (1585) as the Pope had ordered another interpretation of Revelation as he didn't like the stigma by the Reformers that he was the beast. It was Lacunza and then Irwin who furthered it with Darby really pushing it in his so called end time meetings in the 1840tees. It's known that it was lawyer and freemason luciferian Untermeyer who sponsored with his commies the Scofield Bible 1909 to promote Zionism and that it was Leon Trotsky (Lev Davidovich Bronstein) who followed Karl Marx (Moses Mordechair Levy) teachings on Socialism/Communism/Globalism, who killed the Christian Tsar of Russia to start their Red Revolution of blood. The rest is history and today they have overtaken the whole world instead of just Europe. Sources: Days of Vengeance - Padfield; The history of Dispensationalism by Kelley Varner on soundcloud; Communism by the Backdoor; The Secret Masonic Victory if WWII. Now I understand that because 98% of Christians have been brainwashed by Luciferian Sponsored Dispensationalism and that it's not easy to accept what I have written above. I was there myself for 23 years also before I learned all these truths. Take it step by step and stay open to learn at all times and adjust where you can and spit out the bones where you encounter them. Ones we stop being open as humans, we also stop going forward so never get settled in your ways and opinions and shut the door to new truths. I had to "eat my hat" many many times before. Go for truth even if that means denying everything you were taught by God ly men who could have been sincerly wrong. Search everything and keep the good. Be a Berean in every aspect of life.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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But, He still came/comes.
Yes. After at least seven years, Christ comes WITH His saints. But prior to that He came FOR His saints at the Rapture. Following which will be the Marriage of the Lamb in Heaven, with Christ as the divine Bridegroom and the spotless Church as His Bride. Now here are seventeen truths which should sink in:

Seventeen Truths about the Rapture

1. NO IGNORANCE, NO DESPAIRING SORROW FOR CHRISTIANS
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

2. IT IS GOD THROUGH CHRIST WHO BRINGS SOULS AND SPIRITS FROM HEAVEN
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

3. CHRIST HIMSELF ASSURES OUR RESURRECTION AND TRANSFORMATION
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent [precede] them which are asleep [dead].

4. THE LORD HIMSELF WILL DESCEND AND REMAIN IN THE AIR FOR THE RESURRECTED SAINTS
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

5. THE LORD HIMSELF WILL TRANSFORM THOSE WHO ARE ALIVE AT HIS COMING
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

6. TAKE COMFORT IN THE RAPTURE SINCE IT IS THE BLESSED HOPE OF BELIEVERS
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

7. NO DATE SETTING FOR THE RAPTURE SINCE IT IS IMMINENT
1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

8. DIVINE JUDGMENTS (THE DAY OF THE LORD) WILL FOLLOW THE RAPTURE
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

9. FOR THE WORLD: SUDDEN DESTRUCTION PRECEDED BY A FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

10. THE SAINTS WILL NOT BE UNAWARE
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

11. THE SAINTS ARE CHILDREN OF LIGHT, NOT CHILDREN OF DARKNESS
5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

12. THE SAINTS ARE TO BE WATCHFUL -- THE RAPTURE CAN OCCUR AT ANY MOMENT
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

13. THE UNSAVED WILL SLEEP AND BE DRUNK WHEN JUDGMENT COMES
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

14. FAITH, LOVE, HOPE, SALVATION: THINGS NECESSARY FOR BELIEVERS
8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

15. GOD HAS NOT APPOINTED US TO WRATH: THE KEY DIFFERENCE FROM THE SECOND COMING
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

16. CHRISTIANS LIVE WITH CHRIST ETERNALLY WHETHER ALIVE OR DEAD
10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

17. COMFORT FOR OURSELVES, EDIFICATION FOR OTHERS
11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.