How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

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DavidTree

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Aug 2, 2021
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Rev.12:9 is not referring to Satan in the garden, but is a future event, where at the sounding of the 7th trumpet Satan his angels will be cast out of heaven to the earth, which is also the 3rd woe.

"Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them!

But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you!

He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short.”

Every seal, trumpet and bowl judgment has a resulting plague. The 7th Trumpet is no different. It starts off with a pre-celebration, then chapter 12 reveals the woman as Israel, the dragon and the stars which represent Satan and his angels and the Male Child, which is not Jesus. The results of the sounding of the 7th trumpet is Satan and his angels being cast out of heaven to the earth.

As further proof that the war in heaven is future, In Rev.19 Jesus told John to write "what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later." The what must take place later begins at Revelation 4:1 where the Lord says, "come up here and I will show you what must take place after this, i.e. after the what is now, which we are currently living in. Therefore, since the war in heaven takes place within the "what must take place later" portion of what John was told to write, then it is still a future event, which will take place at the sounding of the 7th trumpet.
WOW -
You post the Scripture that says :[Rev 12:9 KJV] And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

And then you say the Scripture does not say what it says - wow

Scripture cannot lie - that 'old serpent' is the serpent from the Garden which is Satan.

Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar. Proverbs 30
 

DavidTree

Well-known member
Aug 2, 2021
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The lie of pre-trib does not stop there - it has to come up with more lies to support itself.

Scripture cannot lie - so when men use scripture to create false teachings they do so by "adding to and taking away from God's words."
The lies of pre-trib just keep growing bigger and bigger.......

Example: Pre-trib itself is a lie since it cannot be found in scripture - Scripture will only denounce it.
So more lies must be added such as this:
"Satan's persecution of the great tribulation saints takes place within the period of God's wrath, the Day of the Lord. Everything that takes place during that time period is God's wrath. The events of Satan, the beast and false prophet are all a part of God's wrath and testing of the tribulation saints."


Scripture declares this TRUTH by the word of the LORD = 1 Thessalonians 4: 13-18 and 5:9

Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.

By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.
After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.
Therefore encourage one another with these words.

For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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You're not bursting my bubble. If I didn't already know about that, do you think that I would be commenting on these issues? I'm not speaking from the cuff of my sleeve on these matters, as many assume I am.

When Jesus said that He beheld Satan fall from heaven like lightening, He was referring to Satan's original fall, which has nothing to do with Satan and his angels finally being cast out of heaven to the earth for good revealed in Rev.12. Surprise! Satan and his angels still currently have access to heaven. In Job we see the son's of God (holy angels) appearing before God to present themselves to Him and Satan appeared with them to present himself. That happened well after the event with Satan in the garden. Now here in Rev.12, it states that Satan accuses the saints day and night before God.

In the middle of the seven years, the 7th trumpet will be sounded and that war will take place with Satan and his angels finally being cast out of heaven and never to be allowed back in. That is why it says, "woe to the earth and the sea" because he will be able to concentrate all of his evil upon the inhabitants of the earth.
Absolutely correct. I cringe to say it, and although it is patently obvious, it must nevertheless be said that you are facing off against biblical illiteracy and ignorance of a very VERY troubling scale and magnitude. An unenviable task....
 

rayzor

Well-known member
Aug 20, 2021
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You're not bursting my bubble. If I didn't already know about that, do you think that I would be commenting on these issues? I'm not speaking from the cuff of my sleeve on these matters, as many assume I am.

When Jesus said that He beheld Satan fall from heaven like lightening, He was referring to Satan's original fall, which has nothing to do with Satan and his angels finally being cast out of heaven to the earth for good revealed in Rev.12. Surprise! Satan and his angels still currently have access to heaven. In Job we see the son's of God (holy angels) appearing before God to present themselves to Him and Satan appeared with them to present himself. That happened well after the event with Satan in the garden. Now here in Rev.12, it states that Satan accuses the saints day and night before God.

In the middle of the seven years, the 7th trumpet will be sounded and that war will take place with Satan and his angels finally being cast out of heaven and never to be allowed back in. That is why it says, "woe to the earth and the sea" because he will be able to concentrate all of his evil upon the inhabitants of the earth.
The rain bow was..a weapon a bow gen 9:13 + we have the cross in the new testament.Put them together you have the cross bow..Jesus was the arrow that shot the devil out of the sky.His ascension from the cross.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
9,162
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The lie of pre-trib does not stop there - it has to come up with more lies to support itself.

Scripture cannot lie - so when men use scripture to create false teachings they do so by "adding to and taking away from God's words."
The lies of pre-trib just keep growing bigger and bigger.......

Example: Pre-trib itself is a lie since it cannot be found in scripture - Scripture will only denounce it.
So more lies must be added such as this:
"Satan's persecution of the great tribulation saints takes place within the period of God's wrath, the Day of the Lord. Everything that takes place during that time period is God's wrath. The events of Satan, the beast and false prophet are all a part of God's wrath and testing of the tribulation saints."


Scripture declares this TRUTH by the word of the LORD = 1 Thessalonians 4: 13-18 and 5:9

Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.

By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.
After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.
Therefore encourage one another with these words.

For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ
Because Christians have been raptured beforehand. Clearly.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
9,162
4,970
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The rain bow was..a weapon a bow gen 9:13 + we have the cross in the new testament.Put them together you have the cross bow..Jesus was the arrow that shot the devil out of the sky.His ascension from the cross.
Did you just make that up? Like a crazy quilt commentary?
 

rayzor

Well-known member
Aug 20, 2021
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Absolutely correct. I cringe to say it, and although it is patently obvious, it must nevertheless be said that you are facing off against biblical illiteracy and ignorance of a very VERY troubling scale and magnitude. An unenviable task....
cv5 him and him alone aren't you going to help? o o yea we suppose to b gods lips at times then we r not to speak our own words....Even when we speak for r self we r not alone right?..god is with us.
 

rayzor

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Aug 20, 2021
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Did you just make that up? Like a crazy quilt commentary?
Know he really did set the bow in the sky gen 9:13 & he really did ascend to heaven...Now when he rose did he take the earth from the devil or not?
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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Absolutely correct. I cringe to say it, and although it is patently obvious, it must nevertheless be said that you are facing off against biblical illiteracy and ignorance of a very VERY troubling scale and magnitude. An unenviable task....
Quite true brother. And we knew that this was inevitable. It is just getting worse the closer we get to the gathering of the church and the time of God's wrath.

"For the time will come when people will not tolerate sound doctrine and accurate instruction [that challenges them with God’s truth]; but wanting to have their ears tickled [with something pleasing], they will accumulate for themselves [many] teachers to satisfy their own desires and to support the errors they hold, and will turn their ears away from the truth and will wander off into myths and man-made fictions [and will accept the unacceptable]." - Amplified version

Keep up your good contention for the truth!
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
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mywebsite.us
"For the time will come when people will not tolerate sound doctrine and accurate instruction [that challenges them with God’s truth]; but wanting to have their ears tickled [with something pleasing], they will accumulate for themselves [many] teachers to satisfy their own desires and to support the errors they hold, and will turn their ears away from the truth and will wander off into myths and man-made fictions [and will accept the unacceptable]." - Amplified version
Hmmmm - sounds just exactly like modern hard-core pretribbers...

:(
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,128
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The rain bow was..a weapon a bow gen 9:13 + we have the cross in the new testament.Put them together you have the cross bow..Jesus was the arrow that shot the devil out of the sky.His ascension from the cross.
Never-the-less, it doesn't change the fact that Satan and his angels still have access to heaven. Their being cast out of heaven is part of the process of restoring the authority of the earth back to God and His Christ, which Adam and Eve forfeited when they disobeyed. Because of this, the authority was given to Satan and when he and his angels are cast out, the process of that authority will revert back to God.

"Then the devil led Him up to a high place and showed Him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. “I will give You authority over all these kingdoms and all their glory,” he said. “For it has been relinquished to me, and I can give it to anyone I wish. So if You worship me, it will all be Yours.” .” - Lk.4:6
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,399
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That's a lot of parsing. But conceptually you fail to recognize That the bride of Christ is one body. It never was nor will it ever be divided. Certainly not in terms of being raptured.
You must have missed the fact that there is no rapture in the Bible. Only in Jerome's 4th century AD Latin Vulgate, because Jerome's Greek was very weak, and he transliterated a word wrong.

Or, show me where Rapture occurs in the Bible. Not vague verses out of context. Not an iffy conjecture. The Rapture doctrine comes straight from Darby in the 18th century, popularized by the terrible study Bible by Scofield, with his notes incorporated into the text in some places!

We are awaiting the Second Coming of Christ. That is what 1 Thess. 4:17 describes. No "secret" "rapture" or destination in "heaven!" None of those words are mentioned!
 

Ruby123

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Mar 1, 2019
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I watched this video the other day and thought that it was great. It goes for over an hour but worth a watch. However I expect some will not like it. You have to put it to the beginning as for some reason it posts at the end when I finished watching it.

 

DavidTree

Well-known member
Aug 2, 2021
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Because Christians have been raptured beforehand. Clearly.
By the word of the Lord, there will be the First Resurrection when the Lord Returns for His Bride (Galilean Wedding).
AFTER that the rapture of the Saints who are alive on earth = according to Scripture. = 1 Thess 4, Matt 24 & 25, Revelation

Scripture cannot lie

Order of Scripture
woven throughout His Word
Clear to See if you bend the knee
not to me or to other men
but to God who holds the Eternal Pen
 

DavidTree

Well-known member
Aug 2, 2021
2,434
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I watched this video the other day and thought that it was great. It goes for over an hour but worth a watch. However I expect some will not like it. You have to put it to the beginning as for some reason it posts at the end when I finished watching it.

But did you read and believe the word of the Lord?

By the word of the Lord
, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep.
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.
After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

Therefore encourage one another with these words.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 2 Timothy 4:3
 

Ruby123

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2019
7,479
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But did you read and believe the word of the Lord?

By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep.
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.
After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

Therefore encourage one another with these words.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 2 Timothy 4:3
Yes I did. Did you?
 

DavidTree

Well-known member
Aug 2, 2021
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Yes I did. Did you?
Pre-trib rapture is a lie, so you are believing man's words and not God's word.

If you want to be sanctified by God, you must believe His Word.

I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.
They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.
As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.
And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth. John 17

Where in Scripture can you find = pre-trib rapture at Christ's Second Coming?
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
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Hmmmm - sounds just exactly like modern hard-core pretribbers...

:(

We have a core group of people here who are prepared to die (figuratively) on the hill of the 2-returns tale.
They always talk the same way. No one understands the Bible except them.
They behave as if they are protecting something sacred and aim to give the impression that the entire
Church accepts and has always believed these 2-returns tales.

We know this isn't true. IMO It keeps us going around in circles arguing about the same points.
We should be studying the whole of prophecy about Jesus' return. But this one item prevents that.
It drives me up the wall.

Paul tied the "rapture" to the resurrection. We should study THAT. Find the resurrection in prophecy
& you'll find the "rapture" What we shouldn't do is keep obsessing about one item among the many events
& fulfillments that occur during the return of our King. Our focus should be on him.
2-returns tales prevent that. They keep our focus off Jesus and ourselves.











]
 

rayzor

Well-known member
Aug 20, 2021
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You must have missed the fact that there is no rapture in the Bible. Only in Jerome's 4th century AD Latin Vulgate, because Jerome's Greek was very weak, and he transliterated a word wrong.

Or, show me where Rapture occurs in the Bible. Not vague verses out of context. Not an iffy conjecture. The Rapture doctrine comes straight from Darby in the 18th century, popularized by the terrible study Bible by Scofield, with his notes incorporated into the text in some places!

We are awaiting the Second Coming of Christ. That is what 1 Thess. 4:17 describes. No "secret" "rapture" or destination in "heaven!" None of those words are mentioned!
harpazo the greek worg
You must have missed the fact that there is no rapture in the Bible. Only in Jerome's 4th century AD Latin Vulgate, because Jerome's Greek was very weak, and he transliterated a word wrong.

Or, show me where Rapture occurs in the Bible. Not vague verses out of context. Not an iffy conjecture. The Rapture doctrine comes straight from Darby in the 18th century, popularized by the terrible study Bible by Scofield, with his notes incorporated into the text in some places!

We are awaiting the Second Coming of Christ. That is what 1 Thess. 4:17 describes. No "secret" "rapture" or destination in "heaven!" None of those words are mentioned!
This is the word they use i think
harpazō (Key)
Pronunciation
har-pad'-zo

14x in 11 unique form(s) TR
13x in 11 unique form(s) LXX
33x in 15 unique form(s)
ἁρπαγέντα — 1x
ἁρπαγησόμεθα — 1x
ἁρπάζει — 2x
ἁρπάζειν — 2x
ἁρπάζοντες — 1x
ἁρπάζουσιν — 1x
ἁρπάσαι — 1x
ἁρπάσει — 1x
ἡρπάγη — 1x
ἥρπασεν — 1x
ἡρπάσθη — 1x
KJV Translation Count — Total: 13x
The KJV translates Strong's G726 in the following manner: catch up (4x), take by force (3x), catch away (2x), pluck (2x), catch (1x), pull (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
  1. to seize, carry off by force
  2. to seize on, claim for one's self eagerly
  3. to snatch out or away
Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
ἁρπάζω harpázō, har-pad'-zo; from a derivative of G138; to seize (in various applications):—catch (away, up), pluck, pull, take (by force).
 

rayzor

Well-known member
Aug 20, 2021
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Rev 12:5
And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up G726 harpazo unto God, and to his throne.
1Th 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up harpazo G726 together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.