How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

[DavidTree]

They are called the dead:

1Pe_4:5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.

The quick are those physically alive and dead are those not physically alive.

Also, please address that Paul knew he was getting a new body not his old dissolved one:

2Co 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

i will review - it does not, in the least bit cause any friction at all between us(at least from where i am and hopefully with you as well).

 

[cv5]

Yes.



And the thing Jesus had been referring to by saying "some standing here," was this (as I see it):

[quoting first from Gaebelein's commentary... and then from Wm Kelly's commentary below that, to sort of "fill out" the thought I'd like to convey...]

"The Lord had the transfiguration in mind when He spoke of some standing there and not tasting death. 2Peter 1:16 [see also vv.17 and 18] gives the meaning of the transfiguration as a type and earnest of His Coming into His Kingdom. On that mountain the three disciples saw the Kingdom of God come with power. The Servant [see Acts 3:13,26 "His SERVANT Jesus" (<--His earthly ministry BEFORE His death)] appears in Glory. The Saints are represented by Moses and Elias, those who have died and those changed in the twinkling of an eye. The three disciples represented the Saints on earth, when He comes into His Kingdom; the Shekinah cloud was there. And Peter blundered again when he lowered the dignity of the Lord by putting Him alongside of the two Old Testament Servants of God. The Father’s voice is heard once more, vindicating the honor of His Son. What an encouragement the transfiguration must have been for the Servant-Son."

--Gaebelein (commentary found at BibleHub - https://biblehub.com/commentaries/gaebelein/mark/9.htm )

[bold mine, and bracketed inserts mine]






"And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses and they were talking with Jesus. And Peter answering, says to Jesus, Rabbi89, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; for Thee one, and for Moses one, and for Elias one. For he knew not what to say; for they were filled with fear. And there came a cloud overshadowing them; and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is My beloved Son90: hear Him.* And suddenly, when they had looked around, they saw no one any longer, save Jesus only with themselves." Having already treated of the scene in Matthew,† I will not dwell on the astonishing circumstance further than to remark that the Lord discloses in this type of God's kingdom what popular theologians so dislike - earthly things mingled, though in no wise confounded, with heavenly things (John 3). There are the glorified, in the persons of Moses and Elias; there are the men in their still unchanged natural bodies, Peter, James, and John; there is the central figure of the Lord, the Head of all things above and below. So it will be when the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ is not any more a testimony of word from those who were eyewitnesses of His majesty, but made good and displayed in the day of the Lord.

[...]

"It is mere irreverence to deride what will be by-and-by, or what was then beheld anticipatively, as "a mongrel state of things," "an abhorred mixture of things totally inconsistent with each other." If transient glimpses of glory, if passing visits of glorious beings have been vouchsafed from the beginning down to our Saviour's days, is it that man can read in these no more than a tale that is told? Is there to them no confirmation from the holy mount of the prophetic word which declares that Jehovah's feet shall stand on Mount Olivet, not to dissolve all things as yet, but to be King over all the earth in that day when He shall come, and all His saints with Him? (cf. Zech. 14). "And it shall come to pass in that day, I will hear, saith Jehovah I will hear the heavens, and they shall hear the earth; and the earth shall hear the corn, and the new wine, and the oil; and they shall hear Jizreel. And I will sow her unto me in the land; and I will have mercy upon Lo-ruhamah; and I will say to Lo-Ammi, Thou art my people; and they shall say, My God" (Hosea 2). "Having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, for administration of the fulness of the times, to sum up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens, and the things on the earth; in Him" (Ephesians 1:9). It is in vain to pervert this to the eternal state; it is as distinct from that final condition as from the present ways of God. For as the gathering of the Church is essentially eclectic, and in no sense a gathering of all things in heaven and earth into one, so eternity is after all dispensation (οἰκονομία), administration, or stewardship, is over. The millennial reign, the kingdom of Christ, is the sole answer to this, even as to the other Scriptures. "Let Thy kingdom come, let Thy will be done, as in heaven, so upon the earth" (Matthew 6:10)."

--William Kelly (commentary found at BibleHub - https://biblehub.com/commentaries/kelly/mark/9.htm )



[end quoting]







[TDW: Eph1:10 (referenced in Kelly's commentary ^ , toward the end) is not speaking of "this present age" as many suppose, nor of "eternity" as others suppose it to mean]

MacArthur agrees.....just finished that sermon series on these passages. Thrilling really.....

 

[ewq1938]

i will review - it does not, in the least bit cause any friction at all between us(at least from where i am and hopefully with you as well).

We seem to believe in most of same things so we don't have to agree on everything.

Learning something new can be hard to accept because old beliefs are old and have been there a long time but have an open mind and look at all the things I have posted from scripture and decide if it says what I believe it says.

Paul talks about his human body dissolving which means to disappear from decomposing. Then he speaks of a different body that is already created and awaiting the time for resurrection.

There are four types of physical resurrection:

1. A dead human body brought back to mortal life. Lazarus.
2. Christ's dead human body resurrected and changed into immortal retaining scars from the day he died.
3. The dead in Christ (like Paul) whose old bodies no longer exist (dissolved) and a new and immortal body waiting in heaven for them to "stand up in" when it's the correct time (7th trump/second coming).
4. The unsaved dead whose dissolved bodies will be recomposed and brought back to mortal life for judgment day and the lake of fire punishment.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Taking people to heaven is NOT in the verse at all. Complete and utter eisegesis.

Nonsense. What does "in my Father's House" mean? What does "I go to prepare a place for you" mean? Do you even know the meaning of these words or the meaning of eisegesis?

Christ ascended to Heaven forty days after His resurrection. Then He sat down at the right hand of God the Father. He is presently there with all the saints and angels. And as He said "I will come again and receive you unto myself that WHERE I AM there ye may be also". If that does not speak of Heaven then you do not understand any words of Scripture.

ACTS 1: THE ASCENSION OF CHRIST TO HEAVEN
1 The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,

2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:...

9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

11Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Why is the word "heaven" repeated four times in two verses? So that the naysayers will not have any reason to scoff at the fact that (1) Christ is in Heaven, (2) all the saints who have passed on are in Heaven, and (3) all the saints who are alive at His coming for the Rapture will also be taken up to Heaven (just like Enoch).

 

[Laura798]

AGREE - the Lord is bringing with Him the Saints who have died in Him - their spirits/souls but they do not have their resurrected bodies.

When He Comes, He resurrects their bodies from the Grave and unites their spirits/souls into a New Glorified Body.

Do you believe Christ already resurrected them Before His coming?

If so, please share - thank You Brother

David, Genesis says "God breathed into man the breath of life and he became a living soul." When we die we are asleep (Jesus said Lazarus and the little girl were 'sleeping')--we do not get a get out of jail free card--everyone must face the judgment when Jesus "separates the sheep from the goats"--no one can be with Jesus until after the Judgment. Even the angels in heaven have celestial bodies, so to will we, but not before Jesus Second coming when he raises the dead.

Verses that are used as arguments for people going immediately to heaven are two: Jesus said to the thief "Assuredly I say to you today you will be with me in Paradise" The other is Paul saying "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord."

First of all it will be Today--"There is a day called TODAY." That day we are in Christ and the promise to be with Him is ours--

"And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,"--Ephesians 2:6 We are presently seated with HIm! Also, there is NO TIME passing when you are dead--it will be a twinkling of an eye--even if a person has been dead a thousand years when they wake to life in Christ--it will be as if you had been asleep and are waking up.

"Jesus said to them, “Aren’t you mistaken, because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God? 25 When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage. Instead, they will be like the angels in heaven. "Mark 12:24-25


1 Corinthians 15:40-50
40 There are celestial bodies and there are terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory.
42 So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable, what is raised is imperishable.
43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power.
44 It is sown a physical body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual body.
45 Thus it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
46 But it is not the spiritual which is first but the physical, and then the spiritual.
47 The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven.
48 As was the man of dust, so are those who are of the dust; and as is the man of heaven, so are those who are of heaven.
49 Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven.
50 I tell you this, brethren: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

 

[Laura798]

No, but I believe the dead resurrect in heaven just after 7th trump.

Also David, Jesus himself after having been in the grave 3 days said, "I have not yet ascended to my Father."

 

[Laura798]

oops three days

AGREE - the Lord is bringing with Him the Saints who have died in Him - their spirits/souls but they do not have their resurrected bodies.

When He Comes, He resurrects their bodies from the Grave and unites their spirits/souls into a New Glorified Body.

Do you believe Christ already resurrected them Before His coming?

If so, please share - thank You Brother

Also David, Jesus himself after having been in the grave 3 days said, "I have not yet ascended to my Father."

 

[ewq1938]

"I will come again and receive you unto myself that WHERE I AM there ye may be also". If that does not speak of Heaven then you do not understand any words of Scripture.

Of course it doesn't speak of heaven in that quote. He plainly said he would come again which means he leaves heaven to come to Earth and then there is ZERO mentioning of anymore traveling. On Earth when he returns, he will "receive you unto myself that WHERE I AM there ye may be also". Location didn't change, it's still Earth not Heaven. The place he went to prepare a place was a temporary place for those who died BEFORE second coming. At the second coming Christ will live here on Earth with the saints. It is YOU who doesn't understand scripture.

 

[ewq1938]

Also David, Jesus himself after having been in the grave 3 days said, "I have not yet ascended to my Father."

The ascension was when he was in his immortal resurrected body. He did say he would go to his father after dying, which was his spirit/soul traveling which is not same as his physical ascension:

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Luke 23:44 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.
Luke 23:45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.
Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.


Take note that Christ assured the man that "today" they would both be in Paradise, a reference to Heaven and just prior to dying Christ said His spirit would be in the hands of his Father

Christ isn't just saying something for no reason. This is what occurs when someone dies and it's based on this scripture:




Ecclesiastes 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.


Mat_8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

Christ said this before the cross and makes it clear OT saints such as Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, are in the kingdom of heaven at the time he spoke this. This proves OT people could die and go to heaven and that everyone did not go to hades.


Christ went to Heaven/Paradise to his Father as we all do when we die. From there he went to the "grave" where the unsaved dead were, and then he arose after 3 days and returned to his disciples before his "ascension" to his throne beside his Father. Ascension involves a full body ascending which did not occur when Jesus died as his body remained in the tomb and his Spirit went to God and later to the "hell".

Joh 13:1 Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.

Joh 13:3 Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God;

Joh 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
Joh 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Joh 16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Joh 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;


Joh 16:16 A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.

Joh 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.


Four times Jesus spoke about where he would go after dying. The Father is in paradise/heaven so going to Him means Jesus did in fact go to paradise after dying and so the thief was there as well as Jesus promised.

 

[pottersclay]

Sure but only after it happens. It hasn't happened yet so they are the dead in Christ. I often use "the former dead" for clarity when discussing post-second coming time periods.




The resurrection is at the second coming, at the start of it.





No, they don't have to resurrect on the Earth nor into old bodies. A resurrection is defined by "a standing up" and that can be done in a completely new body. No scripture shows the dead in heaven traveling to their old bodies, then resurrecting on the Earth and then climbing out of graves, or rising out of the seas etc. The new body is in heaven, the dead resurrect there and Christ "will bring with him" those same formerly dead people and they will be in clouds, when the rapture brings up people from ground. There is this whole non-sense about a u-turn in the pretrib doctrine. Well, there also a non-bblical u-turn in my peoples resurrection of dead in where they are in heaven, go down to Earth then u-turn back up to first heaven where they had just passed on their way down.

Remember Paul's wording:

2Co 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

The human body dissolved and a new body in heaven. Paul knew he wasn't returning to his old body.



The Lord's resurrection was unique.

The Lord's resurrection was unique he is also the first fruits.
After his resurrection there are 3 things that stand out in scripture that Christ did that was not done before.

1. he could walk through walls.

2. His wounds were without blood.

3. He could ascend into heaven.

In light of that ...jesus also went to heaven twice after his resurrection.
Being the high priest his duty was to present the first fruit offering to the father. That is why he told Mary not to touch him because the offering was not to be touched by hands.

 

[cv5]

[QUOTE="Laura798, post: 4670562[/QUOTE]
<<<we do not get a get out of jail free card--everyone must face the judgment when Jesus "separates the sheep from the goats"--no one can be with Jesus until after the Judgment>>>

Pretty much crazy talk right there. Perhaps one of the most prosperous statements yet uttered on this entire thread.....

 

[Laura798]

[QUOTE="Laura798, post: 4670562

<<<we do not get a get out of jail free card--everyone must face the judgment when Jesus "separates the sheep from the goats"--no one can be with Jesus until after the Judgment>>>

Pretty much crazy talk right there. Perhaps one of the most prosperous statements yet uttered on this entire thread.....[/QUOTE]
CV5--you seem to want to stir up trouble--the manner in which you handle yourself is not gentlemanly or Christian. And who calls the Word of God 'Crazy'?

From Matthew 25:31–46: "But when the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. Before him all the nations will be gathered, and he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats."

 

[Nehemiah6]

Of course it doesn't speak of heaven in that quote. He plainly said he would come again which means he leaves heaven to come to Earth and then there is ZERO mentioning of anymore traveling. On Earth when he returns, he will "receive you unto myself that WHERE I AM there ye may be also". Location didn't change, it's still Earth not Heaven. The place he went to prepare a place was a temporary place for those who died BEFORE second coming. At the second coming Christ will live here on Earth with the saints. It is YOU who doesn't understand scripture.

That last remark is so hilarious that it needs no further comment. But you are blatantly contradicting the words of Christ merely to support your false ideas. A rather dangerous effort. This post shows that you have no clue and need to learn a great deal. Go to the passages related to the Rapture and how it relates Heaven. Go to the passage regarding Enoch and how they relate to Heaven. And "traveling" is not even the issue. SUPERNATURAL "translation" is the issue and must be understood by faith.

By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. (Heb 11:5) We see "translation" and "translated" here -- no mention of "traveling". So what does this verse mean?

1. Enoch pleased God.

2. Enoch walked with God.

3. God decided that Enoch would not "see death". Would not die.

4. Therefore God SUPERNATURALLY took Him from earth to Heaven while he was alive. Thus he was "not found" on earth, just as raptured Christians will not be found on earth.

5. Enoch is a type of the Church. Those who are alive at the coming of Christ for His saints will not see death. They will be SUPERNATURALLY transformed and translated to Heaven at the Resurrection/Rapture. And Christ will come personally for this event.

6. The Resurrection of the saints will precede the Rapture by nanoseconds. Christ will bring their souls and spirits to be joined to their immortal glorified bodies.

7. Then all the saints will return to Heaven with Christ for the Marriage of the Lamb which is also in Heaven (Rev 19). Then "I will come again and receive you unto myself" will be fulfilled.

8. Following that all the saints and angels in Heaven will accompany Christ at His Second Coming to earth "with power and great glory" (Rev 1:7; Jude 1:14,15. etc)
And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

 

[ewq1938]

That last remark is so hilarious that it needs no further comment.

Except you went on commenting a lot so your statement here makes as much sense as anything you post.

Unlike you, my response will just be, "That entire post is so hilarious that it needs no further comment."

 

[DavidTree]

David, Genesis says "God breathed into man the breath of life and he became a living soul." When we die we are asleep (Jesus said Lazarus and the little girl were 'sleeping')--we do not get a get out of jail free card--everyone must face the judgment when Jesus "separates the sheep from the goats"--no one can be with Jesus until after the Judgment. Even the angels in heaven have celestial bodies, so to will we, but not before Jesus Second coming when he raises the dead.

Verses that are used as arguments for people going immediately to heaven are two: Jesus said to the thief "Assuredly I say to you today you will be with me in Paradise" The other is Paul saying "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord."

First of all it will be Today--"There is a day called TODAY." That day we are in Christ and the promise to be with Him is ours--

"And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,"--Ephesians 2:6 We are presently seated with HIm! Also, there is NO TIME passing when you are dead--it will be a twinkling of an eye--even if a person has been dead a thousand years when they wake to life in Christ--it will be as if you had been asleep and are waking up.

"Jesus said to them, “Aren’t you mistaken, because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God? 25 When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage. Instead, they will be like the angels in heaven. "Mark 12:24-25


1 Corinthians 15:40-50
40 There are celestial bodies and there are terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory.
42 So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable, what is raised is imperishable.
43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power.
44 It is sown a physical body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual body.
45 Thus it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
46 But it is not the spiritual which is first but the physical, and then the spiritual.
47 The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven.
48 As was the man of dust, so are those who are of the dust; and as is the man of heaven, so are those who are of heaven.
49 Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven.
50 I tell you this, brethren: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

Hello my Sister in Christ,

Well you said some beautiful things here - did you see my post on the Two's ?

Allow me to be imperfect and just address one or two things.

Yes, we all must face judgment - there are two judgments - One before the Mercy Seat and One before the Throne

As believers in Christ we shall all stand before Christ and are removed from the Great White Throne Judgment

When Christ said "It is finished" the Work of God was completed for us in Him - the Debt was Paid for us.
We do not have to go to jail now - the Debt was Paid with His Blood and He brought it to Heaven and placed it on the Mercy Seat.
Christ is our High Priest - He alone was able to go into Heaven and enter the Holy Place where the Father is and Prepare the Place for us - John 14:1-4
Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe in Me as well. In My Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and welcome you into My presence, so that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going.

Christ fulfilled this after His Resurrection: John 20:17
Do not cling to Me,” Jesus said, “for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go and tell My brothers, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, to My God and your God.’ ”

When my wife and i were married we were placed in separate chairs and then we were LIFTED UP above everyone and joined together UP ABOVE and Seated Together ABOVE.

The Prayer of our LORD in John 17 has been fulfilled for us. When we accepted Christ - we accepted the Marriage to Christ and we became one with Him, even now where He is seated at the Right Hand of the Father.

But because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved! And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus. Eph 2:6

It is True what Paul said: Therefore we are always confident, although we know that while we are at home in the body, we are away from the Lord. For we walk by faith, not by sight. We are confident, then, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.
Paul said it twice: Philipians 1:23
For I am hard-pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better.

The term asleep/sleep in Christ does not mean when we die we are actually sleeping - this is only pertaining to our bodies that died.
Only the Body is asleep in the earth - not our spirits, which are eternal.

Our LORD made this crystal clear to us in Luke 16: 19-31 Please read this

When we die our spirits leave our bodies and go to be with the LORD if we are His or to Hell if we are not.

Read Luke 16: 19-31 This is an actual account of two people who died and where their spirits went.

We will talk again as we must not combine too much at once. It is essential you read Luke 16:19-31

Blessing and Good Nite

 

[cv5]

From Matthew 25:31–46: "But when the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. Before him all the nations will be gathered, and he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats."[/QUOTE]

"all the nations".....

Gentile nations. Gentile nations post Second Coming. Gentile nations who are the survivors of the seven year tribulation/wrath period. Has nothing whatsoever to do with Christians. Christians (the Bride) have been raptured before the 70th week of Daniel ever begins.

You really need to hit the books. Be patient it could take a while.....

 

[Laura798]

From Matthew 25:31–46: "But when the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. Before him all the nations will be gathered, and he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats."

"all the nations".....

Gentile nations. Gentile nations post Second Coming. Gentile nations who are the survivors of the seven year tribulation/wrath period. Has nothing whatsoever to do with Christians. Christians (the Bride) have been raptured before the 70th week of Daniel ever begins.

You really need to hit the books. Be patient it could take a while.....[/QUOTE]

Sorry CV5--you may hit your books written by men, I on the other hand prefer to study God's word, comparing scripture to scripture.

 

[cv5]

"all the nations".....

Gentile nations. Gentile nations post Second Coming. Gentile nations who are the survivors of the seven year tribulation/wrath period. Has nothing whatsoever to do with Christians. Christians (the Bride) have been raptured before the 70th week of Daniel ever begins.

You really need to hit the books. Be patient it could take a while.....

Sorry CV5--you may hit your books written by men, I on the other hand prefer to study God's word, comparing scripture to scripture.[/QUOTE]
So why do you fail to understand that the Church is nowhere to be found in Matt 24? Just guessing? Or you just don't get it?

 

[GaryA]

So - are y'all having a quote-bubble-destruction competition?

"The competition where nobody wins."

 

[ewq1938]

So why do you fail to understand that the Church is nowhere to be found in Matt 24? Just guessing? Or you just don't get it?

The church is in Matthew 24. Everyone knows that. Denying it just means you don't understand the passage. I even fixed the quote errors you are having because I understand HTML code (which is simple)