Hyper-grace the doctrine of cheaping Grace .

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CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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#22
That will not stop me from exposing your lies about a group of people.

Been here before and here you are opening up the can of worms again
I trust those who will read what I said as I did admin. you issue with CC, not me. Now have a nice day. You are name-calling again as you have in the past.

The hyper-grace movement has infiltrated many churches. This is a doctrine that justifies bad lifestyles, no matter how egregious. "God loves sinners. Sinners all go to heaven. Accept everyone." Hyper-grace does away with the need for personal responsibility, repentance before God, or being regenerated. It conflates the love of God, which is unalterable, with the standards of God, who eternally hates lying and evil.
 

SophieT

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2020
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#23
I remember all those threads also as I was here but under another name (left and came back)

what I was alarmed about, was people saying that what Jesus had to say does not apply to us because He said those things while the law was still in effect. In fact, someone said even the prayer we call 'The Lord's Prayer' was not something we should take example of

there were all kinds of things said ... actually it was hyper grace and wof arguments by the dozens back then

there is so much these days that we need to be wary of and have discernment on.

I think discussion is good as long as folks do not start getting personal

as has been said, it is possible to discuss the topic without discussing the person
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
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#24
that is not true for those who hold to this false teaching of " I can sin, because grace prevents God from seeing my sin".
was it a figment of Peter's imagination to deny Christ? Or how about Judas betraying Jesus? I guess Jesus was wrong for having things against the Churches in the Book of Revelation chapter one to three. NO balance.

Grace is what we walk in as we follow the Lord in a right relationship IF you love me you will obey me, and if you stumble come to me and I will restore you. a Stumble is not full blow retreat back into addiction, pornography, drunkness, adultery, fornication, homosexuality, and recklessness. We are to stand firm in the Liberty.

gal 5:1
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.

we are to be growing in the Grace and knowledge of the Lord to mature.

1cor 13:11

When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

Hebrew 12:1

Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,

Play time is over.
I would just say that the book of Romans needs to be understood in it's entirely as one cohesive message. We can isolate verses from the context and put them on a pedestal all day, but that doesn't demonstrate a harmony in the message.

The overall conclusion, I believe, is that grace is not a license to sin because where there is no law there is no sin. You know that God isn't keeping track when we break the Law of Moses, right? I think that's the point of Romans.

Just to be clear, a sin is a transgression of God's law. I don't want to take for granted that everyone knows that. So I'm just putting it out there.

Finally, touching on that "license to sin" buzzterm; that term has become a bit of a derogatory term because it aims to demonize the opposition as evil while somehow elevating the accuser's self-righteousness.

The truth is that there is no license to sin. Do you know why there is no license to sin? Because we don't need a license. Everyone is sinning just fine without a license so permission to sin would be redundant and wholly unnecessary.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#25
I trust those who will read what I said as I did admin. you issue with CC, not me. Now have a nice day. You are name-calling again as you have in the past.

The hyper-grace movement has infiltrated many churches. This is a doctrine that justifies bad lifestyles, no matter how egregious. "God loves sinners. Sinners all go to heaven. Accept everyone." Hyper-grace does away with the need for personal responsibility, repentance before God, or being regenerated. It conflates the love of God, which is unalterable, with the standards of God, who eternally hates lying and evil.
You have said this twice now
yet you have shown no proof from any church that this is what they teach

If I remember right. The hyper grace wars started when people posted from people who wrote or taught against what they deemed was a hyper grace movement. (Which is exactly what you did here)

When people asked for proof. Non could be given. Except continued stuff from these anti hyper grace books or teachers
when others posted the actual teachings or words which proved these others wrong. They got angry. Then their insistence to refuse to repent for false accusations caused others to get angry
in the end many got banned and you posted the thread which I have asked you to remove

Your doing the same thing. You have not refuted any counterpoint I have made Instead you do what you always do. Try to attack me and take the focus off you. Shame in you man Shame on you
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
8,891
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#26
I would just say that the book of Romans needs to be understood in it's entirely as one cohesive message. We can isolate verses from the context and put them on a pedestal all day, but that doesn't demonstrate a harmony in the message.

The overall conclusion, I believe, is that grace is not a license to sin because where there is no law there is no sin. You know that God isn't keeping track when we break the Law of Moses, right? I think that's the point of Romans.

Just to be clear, a sin is a transgression of God's law. I don't want to take for granted that everyone knows that. So I'm just putting it out there.

Finally, touching on that "license to sin" buzzterm; that term has become a bit of a derogatory term because it aims to demonize the opposition as evil while somehow elevating the accuser's self-righteousness.

The truth is that there is no license to sin. Do you know why there is no license to sin? Because we don't need a license. Everyone is sinning just fine without a license so permission to sin would be redundant and wholly unnecessary.
I want to understand your point here :

The overall conclusion, I believe, is that grace is not a license to sin because where there is no law there is no sin. You know that God isn't keeping track when we break the Law of Moses, right? I think that's the point of Romans.

Hyper grace is there is no law because we are not under the law so therefore I can't sin because I am under grace and not the law?
So God is only keeping track of the lawbreaking?
Jesus said IF you love me you will obey. If my words abide in you and you in me then you can ask what you will and it will be done. John 14. Paul in Roman 6 says we are to consider ourselves dead to sin so that WE DO NOT DO what is ungodly.


a license to sin is also known as fire insurance. Of course, Paul the apostle warned against this sort of thing in Romans 6:1-2 when he rhetorically asked: shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? His response: God forbid! How shall we that are dead to sin live any longer in it?
If you are in a church like this, you will notice that the word sin is usually only mentioned in the context of forgiveness of sins in Christ but hardly ever in the context of taking a stand against sin, except of course when they condemn the sin of “legalists” and “Pharisees” who are the ministers they denigrate for preaching against sin.


They defend sinful action and call those who say Homosexuality is sin cry you are being judgemental and unloving.

In these churches the Old Testament is treated as only types and shadows for sermon illustrations but has no real value regarding our standard of living today. As I show in this article, my position is that the New Testament and Old Testament are organically connected together with the New building upon the Old, not eradicating it altogether!



Those attending hyper-grace churches only hear positive messages on health, wealth, prosperity, God’s love, God’s forgiveness and on how to succeed in life. Although I also agree with and teach on these topics, we have to be careful to include in our preaching the whole counsel of God so that we feed the flock a balanced diet instead of just the sweetness of feel-good messages. We must do this so we are free from the blood of all men (Acts 20:26-27)!
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
8,891
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#27
You have said this twice now
yet you have shown no proof from any church that this is what they teach

If I remember right. The hyper grace wars started when people posted from people who wrote or taught against what they deemed was a hyper grace movement. (Which is exactly what you did here)

When people asked for proof. Non could be given. Except continued stuff from these anti hyper grace books or teachers
when others posted the actual teachings or words which proved these others wrong. They got angry. Then their insistence to refuse to repent for false accusations caused others to get angry
in the end many got banned and you posted the thread which I have asked you to remove

Your doing the same thing. You have not refuted any counterpoint I have made Instead you do what you always do. Try to attack me and take the focus off you. Shame in you man Shame on you
you don't remember right that is the issue. as it was said which you already admitted you did not read so why are you still commenting on something you don't know? YOu are upset because I have exposed the lie of this teaching you hold to. You think trying to discredit me will help your cause? FYI those here can read what I said in 2016 and today :) you can a nice day. Or continue to call names either way I am unmoved by you or your comments :)
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#28
you don't remember right that is the issue. as it was said which you already admitted you did not read -
when are you going to
Confess if your pride and your inability to actually see what you are doing
I responded to your post. And here you are claiming I never read

You hurt yourself man. you make it so easy. You always have
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
8,891
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#29
when are you going to
Confess if your pride and your inability to actually see what you are doing
I responded to your post. And here you are claiming I never read

You hurt yourself man. you make it so easy. You always have
it's not about me so sorry to disappoint you. I have hurt nothing but maybe your ego :) Please continue to name call.




From my experience, Those attending hyper-grace churches only hear positive messages on health, wealth, prosperity, God’s love, God’s forgiveness, and how to succeed in life. Although I also agree with and teach on these topics,

we have to be careful to include in our preaching the whole counsel of God
so that we feed the flock a balanced diet instead of just the sweetness of feel-good messages. We must do this so we are free from the blood of all men (Acts 20:26-27)!
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
8,891
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113
#30
the Hyper-grace is really more about Carnal Christians who will not surrender to the Lord Jesus Christ and think that being under grace and not the law means they are free from any kind of obedience to the Devine nature that they are supposed to have fruits in.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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#31
apparently, you can't or did not read the thread. That post was from 2016 five years ago. In addition, the Administrator made a final comment on that thread you used.
I suggest you read it. The issue was not the topic of hyper-grace but the constant bring the teaching into every thread and the nastiness of those for it and against.

In 2016, I was not that much familiar with HG, as I am today. If you have a rebuttal to what I have said and disagree please do so, but do so respectfully without the above list which I have added in the past, five years ago.

The administer said to that thread in 2016 right under mine:

"We have never prohibited users who subscribed to either extreme from posting here but from time to time we end up having to crack down because we end up with every thread becoming overrun with the same debate no matter what subject it originally started off on.

Simply put, in recent months it seems that every other thread in this forum has ended up hijacked to the law vs grace vs hyper-grace subject and we have had numerous users leave the site because of the non-stop contention caused by it.

This free for all WILL STOP or the users perceived to be the primary cause of the problem (there are users on both sides of the debate) will be removed. "


Fast forward to 2021 wow :) The context of Hyper-Grace has been well defined and it is of my understanding that this teaching Cheapens the Grace of God.

It is as destructive as Legalism, word of faith, Generational curses, and any teaching where the only topic is ONE only and not the full counsel of God.

You can attack me, and I will take it as those who hold to HG

have no Biblical answer for the comments and quotes I have made from the Book I provided in MY Thread. ON that I bid you a good day :)
Not one response to the comment by the Admin received one negative meme all were positive :)
 
Mar 14, 2011
76,158
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#32
If I remember right. The hyper grace wars started when people posted from people who wrote or taught against what they deemed was a hyper grace movement. (Which is exactly what you did here)
its funny how the OP red x’d this post.

Well again he makes it easy.

Here are the first there threads I can find concerning hypergrace

jan 10: 2014

The second

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/hyper-grace.127191/

From peterjens, a banned member

Over the past months I have been surprised at the subject being discussed and the aggression of various parties.

Michael Brown published a book on this subject, which seems to be headed by teaching from Joseph Prince.

It seems these people blame sin on the flesh, and attribute perfection to the spirit, by claiming sin is forgiven past, present and future.

A lot of the positions people have taken appear to fall into some of these camps, OSAS, with some calling those who believe in righteousness as pharisees.

So it is of little surprise therefore such arguments have come on this site, though the actual theological sources are often not openly declared.

My conclusion has been those who held to hyper grace fell into the exact problems described, a failure to deal with embedded sin and attitudes from the past, and condemnatory of anybody who suggested we are growing and being sanctified. Some preachers appeared to be going as far as saying to suggest growth in the christian life was evil, because it implied we were not perfect.

I suggest if it interests you, you listen to the points Michael is making, as for me it is obvious heresy, and causing lots of confusion and division among some good people, or maybe not so good people.

[video=youtube;GAtlMPvZGxg]

Notice how the thread, Just like I stated, was started from a source of someone who is against hypergrace (Michael brown) and how instead of getting his facts from the people themselves (in this case Joseph Prince) he got his fact from son=me one who is against him, Just like the op of this very thread did

Here is the third thread in the series of threads

In a recent CharismaNews article, Dr. Michael Brown confronts what he calls the “dangerous error” of the hyper-grace movement. He describes the foundational doctrines of this movement as follows; (1) we have been made righteous by the blood of Jesus, (2) all our sins have been forgiven, (3) the Holy Spirit never convicts believers of sin, and (4) we need never repent for nor confess our sins.

All this sounds like the end of the world is upon us....Let's have a look at what is being said.....

“Confronting the Error of Hyper-Grace” – a response to Michael Brown – Escape to Reality
Some things to ponder

1. The first thread had no responses
2. The second thread was closed, which is why it was not quoted. And the OP is banned
3. The third thread is still open. Yet the op himself was since banned.

Either way, I made a point, people argued against hypergrace by using anti hypergrace books or teachers. And not the words from hypergrace teachers themselves

And my biggest point, I proved what I said was true. (About the begining of this argument back in what I see is in 2014)) And the wonderful CS1 is again well I think you all get my point.
 
Mar 14, 2011
76,158
17,530
113
#33
it's not about me so sorry to disappoint you. I have hurt nothing but maybe your ego :) Please continue to name call.




From my experience, Those attending hyper-grace churches only hear positive messages on health, wealth, prosperity, God’s love, God’s forgiveness, and how to succeed in life. Although I also agree with and teach on these topics,

we have to be careful to include in our preaching the whole counsel of God so that we feed the flock a balanced diet instead of just the sweetness of feel-good messages. We must do this so we are free from the blood of all men (Acts 20:26-27)!
So tell us, what hypergrace churches have you experienced?

Put your money where your mouth is my friend


You want to refuse to repent you misrepresented me by refusing to acknowledge I did respond to your post even though you continued to deny it is on you. It is there for everyone to see.

Your not disappointing me by the way, Your falling right into what I have said and prety much showing I was right.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
8,891
2,734
113
#34
its funny how the OP red x’d this post.

Well again he makes it easy.

Here are the first there threads I can find concerning hypergrace

jan 10: 2014



The second

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/hyper-grace.127191/

From peterjens, a banned member

Over the past months I have been surprised at the subject being discussed and the aggression of various parties.

Michael Brown published a book on this subject, which seems to be headed by teaching from Joseph Prince.

It seems these people blame sin on the flesh, and attribute perfection to the spirit, by claiming sin is forgiven past, present and future.

A lot of the positions people have taken appear to fall into some of these camps, OSAS, with some calling those who believe in righteousness as pharisees.

So it is of little surprise therefore such arguments have come on this site, though the actual theological sources are often not openly declared.

My conclusion has been those who held to hyper grace fell into the exact problems described, a failure to deal with embedded sin and attitudes from the past, and condemnatory of anybody who suggested we are growing and being sanctified. Some preachers appeared to be going as far as saying to suggest growth in the christian life was evil, because it implied we were not perfect.

I suggest if it interests you, you listen to the points Michael is making, as for me it is obvious heresy, and causing lots of confusion and division among some good people, or maybe not so good people.

[video=youtube;GAtlMPvZGxg]

Notice how the thread, Just like I stated, was started from a source of someone who is against hypergrace (Michael brown) and how instead of getting his facts from the people themselves (in this case Joseph Prince) he got his fact from son=me one who is against him, Just like the op of this very thread did

Here is the third thread in the series of threads



Some things to ponder

1. The first thread had no responses
2. The second thread was closed, which is why it was not quoted. And the OP is banned
3. The third thread is still open. Yet the op himself was since banned.

Either way, I made a point, people argued against hyper-grace by using anti hypergrace books or teachers. And not the words from hypergrace teachers themselves

And my biggest point, I proved what I said was true. (About the begining of this argument back in what I see is in 2014)) And the wonderful CS1 is again well I think you all get my point.
Here too is what is funny YOU gave a positive Post to the thread in 2016 and a medal award from you LOL.


I did not mention any names so you are trying to hunt and deflect from the posting I stated. The very book I quoted did not mention any names. So you prince, Brown, and all others bring them up is smoke screen :).

NOw again I know it is hard for you and as I said a thread on Hyper-grace was not the issue HEAR That Please :).

it typed like you and others who brought the topic of Hyper-grace and OSAS into everyone's Threads to highjack them.
Those who were banned were because of the attacks and constant bring this topic into everyone else thread. You may be suffering from some cognitive condition so I want to be long-suffering, but you are wrong :).

YOu just confirmed what I said IN 2016 and in this thread :) The Book is Vessels of Glory please read chapter 8 and let me know what you think.

YOu said that you were not wanting to read my thread but you are here making comments about Trying to highjack a threadlike those of you did with other people. Please continue.
 
Mar 14, 2011
76,158
17,530
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#35
Here too is what is funny YOU gave a positive Post to the thread in 2016 and a medal award from you LOL.


I did not mention any names so you are trying to hunt and deflect from the posting I stated. The very book I quoted did not mention any names. So you prince, Brown, and all others bring them up is smoke screen :).

NOw again I know it is hard for you and as I said a thread on Hyper-grace was not the issue HEAR That Please :).

it typed like you and others who brought the topic of Hyper-grace and OSAS into everyone's Threads to highjack them.
Those who were banned were because of the attacks and constant bring this topic into everyone else thread. You may be suffering from some cognitive condition so I want to be long-suffering, but you are wrong :).

YOu just confirmed what I said IN 2016 and in this thread :) The Book is Vessels of Glory please read chapter 8 and let me know what you think.

YOu said that you were not wanting to read my thread but you are here making comments about Trying to highjack a threadlike those of you did with other people. Please continue.
See how the op rolls

He said he read a book, and out of this book he found anti hypergrace stuff.
My dear brother in the Lord wrote an excellent book, and in chapter 8 of that book, He correctly addressed the teaching of Hyper grace.
Some time ago, I did also do the same but for different reasons. I highly recommend Vessels of Fire & Glory by M. Murillo.

I love how he says :
" I am not interested in naming names to expose the falsehoods of hyper -grace teaches"(vessels of Fire pg 79). Instead, he brings accountability to the teaching falsehood and how the "sly teacher can couch their remarks to hide false doctrine." (pg
And now. Because he did not name a NAME, It is ok. And I am wrong.

The op can continue, he is just exposing his true self
 
Mar 14, 2011
76,158
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#36
I am waiting on his to quote these experiences he had with hypergrace churches and which ones he ttended and have first hand knowledge.
 
Mar 14, 2011
76,158
17,530
113
#37
Not one response to the comment by the Admin received one negative meme all were positive :)
I am not talking about HIS COMMENT

I am talking ABOUT YOUR COMMENT

I could care less what he said, Your tthe one who is contradicting yourself He has no part of that
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
8,891
2,734
113
#38
So tell us, what hypergrace churches have you experienced?

Put your money where your mouth is my friend


You want to refuse to repent you misrepresented me by refusing to acknowledge I did respond to your post even though you continued to deny it is on you. It is there for everyone to see.

Your not disappointing me by the way, Your falling right into what I have said and prety much showing I was right.

Put my money where my mouth is? I need to repent why do I need to do that I'm not under the law but grace? Or is it only when one disagrees with you? How about you refute the Book I posted that you said you did not read then I will provide my experiences with those of hyper-grace in this setting that have said many things I have already quoted. :)

Hyper grace, WOF, Generational curses, and legalism are all teaching that is abusive to the full counsel of God. :)
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
8,891
2,734
113
#39
I am not talking about HIS COMMENT

I am talking ABOUT YOUR COMMENT

I could care less what he said, Your tthe one who is contradicting yourself He has no part of that
no I have not you need to common down and stop being rude :) If you don't care about what My Thread says then move on. start your own thread on it :)
 

SophieT

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2020
3,737
2,152
113
#40
its funny how the OP red x’d this post.

Well again he makes it easy.

Here are the first there threads I can find concerning hypergrace

jan 10: 2014



The second

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/hyper-grace.127191/

From peterjens, a banned member

Over the past months I have been surprised at the subject being discussed and the aggression of various parties.

Michael Brown published a book on this subject, which seems to be headed by teaching from Joseph Prince.

It seems these people blame sin on the flesh, and attribute perfection to the spirit, by claiming sin is forgiven past, present and future.

A lot of the positions people have taken appear to fall into some of these camps, OSAS, with some calling those who believe in righteousness as pharisees.

So it is of little surprise therefore such arguments have come on this site, though the actual theological sources are often not openly declared.

My conclusion has been those who held to hyper grace fell into the exact problems described, a failure to deal with embedded sin and attitudes from the past, and condemnatory of anybody who suggested we are growing and being sanctified. Some preachers appeared to be going as far as saying to suggest growth in the christian life was evil, because it implied we were not perfect.

I suggest if it interests you, you listen to the points Michael is making, as for me it is obvious heresy, and causing lots of confusion and division among some good people, or maybe not so good people.

[video=youtube;GAtlMPvZGxg]

Notice how the thread, Just like I stated, was started from a source of someone who is against hypergrace (Michael brown) and how instead of getting his facts from the people themselves (in this case Joseph Prince) he got his fact from son=me one who is against him, Just like the op of this very thread did

Here is the third thread in the series of threads



Some things to ponder

1. The first thread had no responses
2. The second thread was closed, which is why it was not quoted. And the OP is banned
3. The third thread is still open. Yet the op himself was since banned.

Either way, I made a point, people argued against hypergrace by using anti hypergrace books or teachers. And not the words from hypergrace teachers themselves

And my biggest point, I proved what I said was true. (About the begining of this argument back in what I see is in 2014)) And the wonderful CS1 is again well I think you all get my point.

are you really going to quote Grace 777x70?

I don't get your point frankly

so far I'd say you are batting 100 with regards to who wants to argue. pit bull attitude going on IMO

Either way, I made a point, people argued against hypergrace by using anti hypergrace books or teachers. And not the words from hypergrace teachers themselves
that's NOT true

for one thing, mr Grace had some outrageous things to say...we used to pm so don't say I didn't know him

I didn't need a site or a book that was anti-HG except for the Bible. that was my main source for disagreement with the HG thing

mr G also posted prolifically from HG sites...teachers...I think your memory is being very selective