I am curious

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oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#1
How many on here believe that Paul was not a legitimate apostle; and please give reasons for your answer.
 

NoNameMcgee

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
4,912
954
113
#2
whaaaat

ive seen a post like this recently

it makes no sense


paul was definitely a legitimate apostle


652. apostolos ►
Strong's Concordance
apostolos: a messenger, one sent on a mission, an apostle
Original Word: ἀπόστολος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: apostolos
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-os'-tol-os)
Short Definition: an apostle, a messenger, an envoy, a delegate
Definition: a messenger, envoy, delegate, one commissioned by another to represent him in some way, especially a man sent out by Jesus Christ Himself to preach the Gospel; an apostle.




to not believe this means you think there is error in the bible

you might as well pick and choose which verses to believe and reject



(not implying you think that he isnt hermit)
:)
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#3
Well, Luke certainly testified to the fact that he was, but some do not believe that. I think this is due largely to the fact that many people simply do not like much of what Paul had to say or how he said it.
 

Gracie_14

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2017
765
144
43
#4
whaaaat

ive seen a post like this recently

it makes no sense


paul was definitely a legitimate apostle


652. apostolos ►
Strong's Concordance
apostolos: a messenger, one sent on a mission, an apostle
Original Word: ἀπόστολος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: apostolos
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-os'-tol-os)
Short Definition: an apostle, a messenger, an envoy, a delegate
Definition: a messenger, envoy, delegate, one commissioned by another to represent him in some way, especially a man sent out by Jesus Christ Himself to preach the Gospel; an apostle.




to not believe this means you think there is error in the bible

you might as well pick and choose which verses to believe and reject



(not implying you think that he isnt hermit)
:)
what a neat explanation there NNM :D :p
 

Gracie_14

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2017
765
144
43
#5
How many on here believe that Paul was not a legitimate apostle; and please give reasons for your answer.
hey dude, umm, no i dont think Paul was NOT a legitamate apostle. there you go! NNM explained it well :)
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
9,661
458
83
#6
If somebody believes that Paul was not send by Christ to preach gospel to nations, he will have to also deal with three other things:

1. Wrong Bible (full of Paul´s letters)
2. Wrong witnessing of Peter about Paul (he said that Paul writes Scriptures)
3. Very mislead Church (because Church recognized Paul as inspired and special apostle of Christ)
 

Stranger36147

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2015
700
52
28
#7
I'm not going to get into a debate. All I'll say is this:

You would think that if Paul wasn't a legitimate apostle, God would not have allowed the book of Acts and his letters to be part of the New Testament.
 
Last edited:

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
6,230
225
63
#8
How many on here believe that Paul was not a legitimate apostle; and please give reasons for your answer.
Only one qualification needed . Sent by God. God sends all his prophets with His prophecy .It would appear he has sent you as an legitimate apostle.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
8,533
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#9
I know full well there are people on this forum who do not believe Paul was a true apostle. I am still waiting to hear from them and find out why they believe this.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
6,230
225
63
#10
I'm not going to get into a debate. All I'll say is this:

You would think that if Paul wasn't a legitimate apostle, God would not have allowed the book of Acts and his letters to be part of the New Testament.

Yes one sent with prophecy.
 

Gracie_14

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2017
765
144
43
#11
I know full well there are people on this forum who do not believe Paul was a true apostle. I am still waiting to hear from them and find out why they believe this.
hmm, i wonder if they'll reveal themselves anytime soon :D
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
5,490
378
83
#12
well, I was told a few months ago, by a longtime member on here, that " real , true, mature Christians do not need to read Paul's letters, they were for churches who have problems. if one does not have those problems, they do not need to read them".

I will not name the person, I will say he has a menorah as his avatar.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
30,489
1,480
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#13
Two things stand out at me concerning Paul's apostleship......

a. Many reject what Paul has to say because it contradicts their religious persuasion......
b. Many reject what Paul has to say because on a cursory glance it seems to contradict what Jesus taught......

In my mind one of the biggest errors committed today by many is the simple fact that the words of JESUS are not interpreted in light of the fact that he was born, lived and died UNDER THE LAW which RATIFIED the NEW COVENANT.......The words of JESUS and of PAUL must be interpreted in light of this fact.

The "many things" that JESUS still had to say, but the disciples were NOT YET READY are found in the inspired words of PAUL unto the churches......

PAUL was definitely the apostle unto the Lord's churches and unto the Gentiles that were being folded in with the JEWS as the two became one......
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
30,489
1,480
113
#14
well, I was told a few months ago, by a longtime member on here, that " real , true, mature Christians do not need to read Paul's letters, they were for churches who have problems. if one does not have those problems, they do not need to read them".

I will not name the person, I will say he has a menorah as his avatar.
WOW..........one word comes to mind with the above view..........

ig·no·rance
ˈiɡnərəns/
noun
noun: ignorance

  • lack of knowledge or information





 

razor17

Senior Member
Aug 16, 2017
192
20
18
#15
I do not believe in Paul being a true apostle...yes his writings have good things in them but they are way too influenced by Judaism and pharisaical type laws/practices...plus I believe the RCC manipulated a lot of the texts to control people/future believers ....I totally disagree with the statement from Paul about "follow me as I follow Christ" like what the heck Paul? We should follow Christ not some middleman...paul is not my mediator he's a sinner just like me........only Jesus is a righteous mediator....

Plus he has all these rules about marriage and women's role in church and appearance etc... and the man himself was never married......seems a bit hypocritical....

A lot of the modern church structure of being under pastors bishops etc was from Paul due to his pharisee background....

Jesus never said for any of this "church hierarchy stuff to occur" in fact many early Christians did not have "organized church" as we now know it....most were a group of believers who met for prayer and had someone like Apostle peter or John preach to them and then when that apostle left to another town they continued to meet together....there was no lording of authority over their fellow brethren and each person was one-on-one with Christ in a relationship.....

now let the wolves come and try to rip me lol....i got thick skin :p
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
8,533
232
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#16
I do not believe in Paul being a true apostle...yes his writings have good things in them but they are way too influenced by Judaism and pharisaical type laws/practices...plus I believe the RCC manipulated a lot of the texts to control people/future believers ....I totally disagree with the statement from Paul about "follow me as I follow Christ" like what the heck Paul? We should follow Christ not some middleman...paul is not my mediator he's a sinner just like me........only Jesus is a righteous mediator....

Plus he has all these rules about marriage and women's role in church and appearance etc... and the man himself was never married......seems a bit hypocritical....

A lot of the modern church structure of being under pastors bishops etc was from Paul due to his pharisee background....

Jesus never said for any of this "church hierarchy stuff to occur" in fact many early Christians did not have "organized church" as we now know it....most were a group of believers who met for prayer and had someone like Apostle peter or John preach to them and then when that apostle left to another town they continued to meet together....there was no lording of authority over their fellow brethren and each person was one-on-one with Christ in a relationship.....

now let the wolves come and try to rip me lol....i got thick skin :p
Do you believe that Luke was an inspired writer and that everything he wrote was given to him from the Lord?

Do you believe the testimony of Peter concerning Paul is trustworthy?
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
30,489
1,480
113
#17
I do not believe in Paul being a true apostle...yes his writings have good things in them but they are way too influenced by Judaism and pharisaical type laws/practices...plus I believe the RCC manipulated a lot of the texts to control people/future believers ....I totally disagree with the statement from Paul about "follow me as I follow Christ" like what the heck Paul? We should follow Christ not some middleman...paul is not my mediator he's a sinner just like me........only Jesus is a righteous mediator....

Plus he has all these rules about marriage and women's role in church and appearance etc... and the man himself was never married......seems a bit hypocritical....

A lot of the modern church structure of being under pastors bishops etc was from Paul due to his pharisee background....

Jesus never said for any of this "church hierarchy stuff to occur" in fact many early Christians did not have "organized church" as we now know it....most were a group of believers who met for prayer and had someone like Apostle peter or John preach to them and then when that apostle left to another town they continued to meet together....there was no lording of authority over their fellow brethren and each person was one-on-one with Christ in a relationship.....

now let the wolves come and try to rip me lol....i got thick skin :p
Paul did not say or indicate that he was in any way shape or form a mediator between God and MEN....on the contrary HE CONSTANLTY pointed to CHRIST as the ONE and only MEDIATOR between GOD and MEN.....

and to be honest....almost everything you stated in opposition above reeks of a lack of understanding.....and......by default rejects almost half of the New Testament written by PAUL.........
 

razor17

Senior Member
Aug 16, 2017
192
20
18
#18
Well Luke was a physician who historically bible scholars say used the previous 3 gospels (matt, mark, john) to gather information about Jesus. He was also alive during the latter years of apostles such as John so he could ask him along with other eyewitnesses of the time of Jesus about their experiences and write about them.

As for being inspired....I will say that the material is inspired but as far as Luke being inspired himself I do not believe that...he was more of a historian/fact gatherer rather than the Holy Spirit speaking through him(Luke) he was just documenting the events that happened in Jesus life time by way of interviewing/gathering facts from people who lived when Jesus was physically on Earth.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
30,489
1,480
113
#19
Do you believe that Luke was an inspired writer and that everything he wrote was given to him from the Lord?

Do you believe the testimony of Peter concerning Paul is trustworthy?
Good point....he believes in Peter....does he believe Peter's word concerning PAUL........this will be good.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
8,533
232
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#20
Well Luke was a physician who historically bible scholars say used the previous 3 gospels (matt, mark, john) to gather information about Jesus. He was also alive during the latter years of apostles such as John so he could ask him along with other eyewitnesses of the time of Jesus about their experiences and write about them.

As for being inspired....I will say that the material is inspired but as far as Luke being inspired himself I do not believe that...he was more of a historian/fact gatherer rather than the Holy Spirit speaking through him(Luke) he was just documenting the events that happened in Jesus life time by way of interviewing/gathering facts from people who lived when Jesus was physically on Earth.
Do you believe Luke's writings (Gospel of Luke and Acts) to be scripture?