I am curious
- Thread starter oldhermit
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Paul was a good example of wanting to do the right thing but going about it the wrong way until God came along and knocked him off his high horse so to speak literally....
Paul was very educated but didn't have a relationship with God at the start then he was humbled and taught by God and commissioned to go specifically to the Gentiles and preach the gospel.
Gives us all hope that even if we want to do the right things and going about it the wrong way that God will help to straighten us out and put us on the right path.
I don't have an argument on Paul not being an apostle I just believe he had a specific job that God wanted him to do and he did it. Each of us have a job God has purposed for us to do and for our lives to be the best they can be we need to submit to God's will and do what he is asking us to do like Paul did.
Paul was very educated but didn't have a relationship with God at the start then he was humbled and taught by God and commissioned to go specifically to the Gentiles and preach the gospel.
Gives us all hope that even if we want to do the right things and going about it the wrong way that God will help to straighten us out and put us on the right path.
I don't have an argument on Paul not being an apostle I just believe he had a specific job that God wanted him to do and he did it. Each of us have a job God has purposed for us to do and for our lives to be the best they can be we need to submit to God's will and do what he is asking us to do like Paul did.
I do not think you quite understand the nature of scripture. You said you believe his writings to be scripture. If all the things you said about Luke are true then his writings are not scripture nor does he have any credibility as an historian.
My second question was do you believe the testimony of the apostle Peter about Paul and his writings?
My second question was do you believe the testimony of the apostle Peter about Paul and his writings?
I never said Luke has no credibility plus not all scripture is God inspired....take the genealogies in Genesis and Numbers.....is there any "spiritual value" in those other than to show lineage? no....yet it is deemed "scripture" does that mean God necessarily said hey Moses write down these genealogies .....no it could be Moses just wrote them to keep a record or history....
Most of the scripture is God inspired but a good portion of it is manipulated by men both in ancient times and also the modern freemasons (francis bacon) who helped assemble the modern KJV version of the Bible....there are tons of instances in the Bible of scripture manipulation....where in Malachi it talks of the "Sun of righteousness" no that isn't talking about God or Jesus but the winged sun-disc false god Ra.....yet people will just gloss over this example as no big deal....
also I don't believe everything peter "wrote" as well...such as charity covers a multitude of sins....that is b.s. RCC teaching - pay money to get forgiveness of sins....or do some works to get forgiveness...that is anti-Christian teaching and false doctrine....you can only get forgiveness via Jesus not works money or anything else....
Your name is Peter and upon this rock will I build this church....More RCC manipulation...was Peter the most important apostle? no.....i highly doubt Jesus would say that to Peter in front of all his other disciples....essentially dismissing the others....
Most of the scripture is God inspired but a good portion of it is manipulated by men both in ancient times and also the modern freemasons (francis bacon) who helped assemble the modern KJV version of the Bible....there are tons of instances in the Bible of scripture manipulation....where in Malachi it talks of the "Sun of righteousness" no that isn't talking about God or Jesus but the winged sun-disc false god Ra.....yet people will just gloss over this example as no big deal....
also I don't believe everything peter "wrote" as well...such as charity covers a multitude of sins....that is b.s. RCC teaching - pay money to get forgiveness of sins....or do some works to get forgiveness...that is anti-Christian teaching and false doctrine....you can only get forgiveness via Jesus not works money or anything else....
Your name is Peter and upon this rock will I build this church....More RCC manipulation...was Peter the most important apostle? no.....i highly doubt Jesus would say that to Peter in front of all his other disciples....essentially dismissing the others....
We are told under no uncertain terms that ALL scripture is inspired of God. In other words, God is the source and NEVER man. The apostle Peter assures us that Paul's writing are scripture on the same par with all other scripture and that what he wrote was from the Lord and not from Paul.
It seem that your problem is far more fundamental than just not believing Paul was a true apostle. You do not believe in the basic integrity of scripture. Your claims of deliberate manipulation of scripture is completely unwarranted and unfounded. Clearly this is not a subject in which you are well versed. Your basic problem is that you simply do not believe scripture to be the word of God.
It seem that your problem is far more fundamental than just not believing Paul was a true apostle. You do not believe in the basic integrity of scripture. Your claims of deliberate manipulation of scripture is completely unwarranted and unfounded. Clearly this is not a subject in which you are well versed. Your basic problem is that you simply do not believe scripture to be the word of God.
How is this verse not deliberately manipulated...and since I am so supposedly devoid of understanding explain this verse what it means.....
Malachi 4:2 but unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings....
and yes SUN is spelled correctly in the KJV ( i did not misspell it)
why would the supposed learned Englishmen of England leave it as SUN and not SON plus it is a capitalized S in sun nowhere else in the Bible is sun capitalized.....
The problem with modern Christians is this deification of the Bible....as if itself is a god....this is wrong its a form of idolatry...the Bible is a historical text with some divinely inspired words yet it has been manipulated by external men who seek to control/influence others with its text.....not everything in the Bible is "divine" for example
only moronic Bible scholars would argue that Song of Solomon is about the Church as the Bride of Christ.....one read through it and you will realize it was a lust crazed solomon talking about another woman and his fantasies.....do you think Jesus would compare the church to having legs of ivory and talk with such explicit language to the church.....i think not...and to argue this is pure insanity....heck even Jesus said a lilly ( a stinking flower) is better than solomon (supposedly the wisest man on the earth) do you think Jesus would need his (solomon's) words ....i think not....
The above diatribe speaks volumes to the utter waste of time it is for any of us to participate in a seemingly productive dialogue with you pal.......
only a moron would reject the inspired word of God written about Paul by Luke and Peter and then deny half of the N.T. which was given by PAUL.......heck.....just take your bible.....rip out all the pages attributed to PAUL, what Peter wrote, Luke and Acts and then superglue the Bible According to Razor77 formally Ultimatum77 in and go with it.....see how that works out.
only a moron would reject the inspired word of God written about Paul by Luke and Peter and then deny half of the N.T. which was given by PAUL.......heck.....just take your bible.....rip out all the pages attributed to PAUL, what Peter wrote, Luke and Acts and then superglue the Bible According to Razor77 formally Ultimatum77 in and go with it.....see how that works out.
LOL. This is your defense? You can find this kind of nonsense all over the internet from morons like this one who have absolutely no background in either ancient biblical texts nor in the original languages. This man has no idea what he is talking about. All he is doing is standing in the shoulders of liberal biblical theorists who have come before him. If you want to argue ancient manuscripts and challenge the integrity of those texts, at least have the nerve to spend the time and sweet required to learn the languages, otherwise you have no idea what you are talking about.
N
you have provided no evidence
ok
to prove to me scripture is not inspired
youre going to have to do so with scripture
because that is where my belief is
but if i want to prove to you
pauls writing is inspired by God
would you need proof outside scripture (from the world)
or would scripture be enough?
ok
to prove to me scripture is not inspired
youre going to have to do so with scripture
because that is where my belief is
but if i want to prove to you
pauls writing is inspired by God
would you need proof outside scripture (from the world)
or would scripture be enough?
I have issues with several verses in Paul's letters such as the verse in 1 Corinthians 9 about being "all things to all people"....this cannot be as you cannot be a drug dealer to witness to a drug dealer .....its just does not make sense.....
Yes if you like to use scripture that is fine, but I prefer that you cross reference Paul's writings with what Jesus said (4 gospels) and if they line up....i will say some things do line up but a lot of things Paul said seems more pharasee/judaism type leanings imo....
Most of Paul's writings deal with OT type institutions such as church/synagogue heirarchy, women's role in the church/appearance, but I believe under the new covenant with Jesus these were all "old and unnecessary" religious rituals that Paul through his misguided judaism roots wanted to re-enslave christians to the OT rulebook of the Jews.....with arcane rules about women, and authority following of leaders etc....Jesus never said to do this....imo....
of course the topic of circumcision or uncircumcision was a big deal between peter and paul....which I will admit Paul was right about not trying to make Christians into Jews via circumcision....however he failed in dropping the other jewish roots stuff and implemented them in his letters about church authority/leaders and women.....
N
ok
your understanding and personal opinion is paul was misguided and is not an apostle
the issue you mentioned is
1 Corinthians 1
1 Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:
3 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
4 I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;
5 That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;
6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:
7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:
8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
this right here is directly against what you understand him to be saying when you say
"I follow Jesus the sinless one....not a sinner named Paul.....he's not my role model....only Jesus is...."
so where is your issue?
your understanding and personal opinion is paul was misguided and is not an apostle
the issue you mentioned is
1 Corinthians 1
1 Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:
3 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
4 I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;
5 That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;
6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:
7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:
8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
this right here is directly against what you understand him to be saying when you say
"I follow Jesus the sinless one....not a sinner named Paul.....he's not my role model....only Jesus is...."
so where is your issue?